+K13 Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 I was thinking about used coke bottles, the 20 ounce size or maybe the 2 litre size. Haven't tried it yet but I bet it would keep the oontents dry for quite a while. Kind of a small opening to try to retrieve that log, unless you are talking about the pre-forms. The log always seems to unroll inside the bottle and might be a real bear to remove form a large bottle like a 2 liter. Quote
+Oxford Stone Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) http://www.sibeg.it/en/promozioni-concorsi/elenco-promozioni/collect-the-new-coca-cola-flask-available-at-autogrill.html "won" this while buying lunch at an Italian motorway service station - was never going to use it so covered it in black tape and stuck it 15 feet up a tree. I see a previous poster mentions flasks too. Might drop by Poundstretcher at lunchtime to see what I can find! Edited December 18, 2013 by Oxford Stone Quote
+L0ne.R Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 I was thinking about used coke bottles, the 20 ounce size or maybe the 2 litre size. Haven't tried it yet but I bet it would keep the oontents dry for quite a while. Kind of a small opening to try to retrieve that log, unless you are talking about the pre-forms. The log always seems to unroll inside the bottle and might be a real bear to remove form a large bottle like a 2 liter. Completely agree. Very annoying. The log is frustrating to get out, and ends up a tattered mess. And rather pointless if a 2 litre bottle is used so that the cache is swag size. You can't leave much in a 2 litre bottle with a neck diameter smaller then a quarter. Maybe pencils and those small squishy dollar store animals (which you can't get out of the cache once they've been squeezed in). Examples of frustrating containers I've seen used: Quote
+BBWolf+3Pigs Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 I was thinking about used coke bottles, the 20 ounce size or maybe the 2 litre size. Haven't tried it yet but I bet it would keep the oontents dry for quite a while. Kind of a small opening to try to retrieve that log, unless you are talking about the pre-forms. The log always seems to unroll inside the bottle and might be a real bear to remove form a large bottle like a 2 liter. Even with preforms unrolled logs can be a nuisance. When I hide pre-forms, I used cardstock, and cut long strips just shorter than the pre-form, and just wide enough to fit. A staple a few of these strips together at one end and slip it in. To retrieve the log, all you have to do is tip it over! Quote
+L0ne.R Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 I was thinking about used coke bottles, the 20 ounce size or maybe the 2 litre size. Haven't tried it yet but I bet it would keep the oontents dry for quite a while. Kind of a small opening to try to retrieve that log, unless you are talking about the pre-forms. The log always seems to unroll inside the bottle and might be a real bear to remove form a large bottle like a 2 liter. Even with preforms unrolled logs can be a nuisance. When I hide pre-forms, I used cardstock, and cut long strips just shorter than the pre-form, and just wide enough to fit. A staple a few of these strips together at one end and slip it in. To retrieve the log, all you have to do is tip it over! Good advice. I've seen micros with logbooks instead of scrolls - it's a nice touch. I agree that it's tough to get rolled up logs out of containers. If a rolled up log must be used, it's nice when the CO glues it to a ribbon, or a toothpick, or a stick to help get the scroll out and to tighten it up when trying to get it back into the container. Quote
+J Grouchy Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 I was thinking about used coke bottles, the 20 ounce size or maybe the 2 litre size. Haven't tried it yet but I bet it would keep the oontents dry for quite a while. Kind of a small opening to try to retrieve that log, unless you are talking about the pre-forms. The log always seems to unroll inside the bottle and might be a real bear to remove form a large bottle like a 2 liter. Even with preforms unrolled logs can be a nuisance. When I hide pre-forms, I used cardstock, and cut long strips just shorter than the pre-form, and just wide enough to fit. A staple a few of these strips together at one end and slip it in. To retrieve the log, all you have to do is tip it over! Good advice. I've seen micros with logbooks instead of scrolls - it's a nice touch. I agree that it's tough to get rolled up logs out of containers. If a rolled up log must be used, it's nice when the CO glues it to a ribbon, or a toothpick, or a stick to help get the scroll out and to tighten it up when trying to get it back into the container. Lots of the bison-style tubes have small inner screw-top capsules for the log so the paper won't get wedged inside. In the absence of one of these, I've cut a one-inch section of drinking straw (unused, of course) and slit it along the length. Then I just roll the log and fit it inside the straw. Then the finders can easily get to the log sheet. Quote
+BBWolf+3Pigs Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 Lots of the bison-style tubes have small inner screw-top capsules for the log so the paper won't get wedged inside. In the absence of one of these, I've cut a one-inch section of drinking straw (unused, of course) and slit it along the length. Then I just roll the log and fit it inside the straw. Then the finders can easily get to the log sheet. I've seen the plastic inserts, but all they seem to do is shrink space for a log - you can still have issues with gettign the log out of the insert. I've seen the "slit straw" approach as well, and that works great! Quote
+stijnhommes Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) Peanut butter jars are usually a bad idea. The lid isn't water tight and can't withstand the elements and the jar itself breaks if you let it drop on top of logs or rocks. Besides, if you don't clean it out well enough, it attracts animals. There is a reason you can't have food inside caches... Edited December 18, 2013 by stijnhommes Quote
+J Grouchy Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 Peanut butter jars are usually a bad idea. The lid isn't water tight and can't withstand the elements and the jar itself breaks if you let it drop on top of logs or rocks. Besides, if you don't clean it out well enough, it attracts animals. There is a reason you can't have food inside caches... I've found some that get warped from heat, too. Quote
+fbingha Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 I was thinking about used coke bottles, the 20 ounce size or maybe the 2 litre size. Haven't tried it yet but I bet it would keep the oontents dry for quite a while. Never use a container that has an opening smaller than the inside. Things forced in will "grow" inside and refuse to come back out easily. Quote
+BlackRose67 Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 I was thinking about used coke bottles, the 20 ounce size or maybe the 2 litre size. Haven't tried it yet but I bet it would keep the oontents dry for quite a while. I thought about using one for a tribute cache for a caching friend who is a fan of Coca-Cola. Take a coke bottle, put the lid on, and place it in the freezer. It will collapse in on itself fairly quick...since I live in an area where we have several months of sub-zero temperatures, I opted to use a preform with a Coke label on it instead. Quote
+L0ne.R Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) Peanut butter jars are usually a bad idea. The lid isn't water tight and can't withstand the elements and the jar itself breaks if you let it drop on top of logs or rocks. Besides, if you don't clean it out well enough, it attracts animals. There is a reason you can't have food inside caches... I have used them with success, but I only use Kraft pb jars. Always plastic, never glass (do they even make glass pb containers anymore?). I hang them, so they don't end up covered in water. Have never had an animal problem, but they're not covered in duct tape. Some of my (authentic) Lock & Locks are covered in camo tape and are ground hides (under logs, forest debris) have been chewed on by animals. They chew off the tape, luckily the plastic is strong and thick enough that they only scrape the plastic with their teeth. Also, when I use a pb jar for a hide I take out the paper gasket and cut out a piece of fun foam to fit the inside of the lid. This gives the bottom part of the container a pliant water resistant surface to snug up against. I'm in Ontario, Canada and have found quite a few Kraft pb jars in very good shape. But I have found a number of food jars like plastic mayonnaise jars and Doles fruit jars that are very leaky. I'm guessing that pb jars are not so great in hot climates, which would probably be true for a lot of plastic containers. Edited December 18, 2013 by L0ne R Quote
+fbingha Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 (do they even make glass pb containers anymore?). Yes, the "peanuts only" peanut butter that we buy comes in glass jars. Quote
+cerberus1 Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 I have used them with success, but I only use Kraft pb jars. That may be where the problem lies. I haven't seen Kraft PB in any stores near me. My ex (from Canada) brought some back once. I thought it too sweet. Not caching yet, so never saved the containers. - We still had coffee cans for nuts n bolts then. Quote
+DanOCan Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 I too am "guilty" of using mayo and peanut butter jars as el-cheapo cache containers. I have had some leaking issues with mayo but the peanut butter ones seems to be OK. All I ever do is run them through the dishwasher and I haven't experienced any animal issues. Quote
+Chief301 Posted December 19, 2013 Posted December 19, 2013 I used a PB jar for the first time a couple of weeks ago, so I'm curious to see how it will fare over time. It's plastic (can't remember the last time I saw a glass one), and I roughed it up with sandpaper and sprayed it with OD green matte Krylon Fusion paint, so maybe that will prevent some UV degradation. I also first washed and rinsed it thoroughly and then washed it out again with a bleach solution before painting it. The lid is covered with camo duct tape and the hide is in a somewhat protected location (inside a hollow tree) so I anticipate that it will hold up OK. I do like the idea of custom-fitting a piece of foam in the lid as a gasket.....of course it would have to be very carefully fitted, I think if it was trimmed unevenly you'd create a worse situation than just leaving the lid as is. Quote
+JohnCNA Posted December 19, 2013 Posted December 19, 2013 A local hider is fond of soup thermos containers. A little larger than a soda can with a wide mouth, double insulated and a dual screw cap. They are durable and water tight. Quote
+Harry Dolphin Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 Okay. Not a great photo... Decades ago, I used to tumble rocks. Tumbler died. Oh, well. But I am left with the tumbler container. Looks like it should make a good waterproof container! Quote
+Sharks-N-Beans Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 I found an old motorcycle helmet and plan to fill it with a gallon size container, mold a zombie face and put it in the woods. Any better ideas for a motorcycle helmet? Quote
+Mineral2 Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 Nobody has mentioned my favorite container. It's a Kool-Aid or Lemonade screw top container. Very waterproof and holds a decent amount of swag. Try it, you'll like it. Team Triggerfinger I've been using these with great success. My new favorite container, at least for the large end of small hides. Quote
+copperisblue Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 And so, I was cleaning, and discovered... Once upon a time, in a galaxy far away, I used to tumble rocks. Rock polisher. Take small rocks, put them in the tumbler with water, and grit. Tumble for a few weeks. Change grit to a finer grit,and tumble a few more weeks. &c. Hey! I've got lots of great polished rocks! Well, unfortunately, it died, and I lost interest. Recently found the container, hiding somewheres. It's waterproof, if closed properly. 5" tall, 4" radius cylinder. "Don't Tumble on the Rocks" is screaming in my mind! Might be my first attempt at PMO. (Hey. I had a nice hide that was evil. People tore the area apart!) May be best to make it an evil mystery cache! That would limit the finders to 'the possessed'. Hopefully, they would be more considerate of the ache and area? But, that's what I found buried in my closet! HAHAHA! I have 1 of those under the bushes at my house right now! I just bought 4 rock tumblers for work, each of which came with 2 jars. And I have no use for the jars at work (I just wanted cheap roller mills). My only worry is that a deployed jar will not be closed properly. You have to insert the lid, then put an o-ring around the top. The containers appear quite water tight, but I'm opening/closing the thing during and after each rain as a test. And am curious to see how the jar winters/summers. Quote
+WarNinjas Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) I have out a couple of hides with containers that have smaller openings but I put a blinkie inside. That way it will fall out easily. I am thinking of trying this with some of our kayak to hides as I think the container will float with the changing water levels. Any bets on how long it will last before someone posts they dropped the smaller container in the water? Edited August 12, 2014 by WarNinjas Quote
+TeamRabbitRun Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) I have out a couple of hides with containers that have smaller openings but I put a blinkie inside. That way it will fall out easily. I am thinking of trying this with some of our kayak to hides as I think the container will float with the changing water levels. Any bets on how long it will last before someone posts they dropped the smaller container in the water? Get some Gorilla Glue. Attach a lanyard of some type to the 'Blinkie', attach its lid to the lanyard about six inches away, then a LONG length over to the inside-bottom of the floating container. ...Bill (Edited to fix typo.) Edited August 12, 2014 by TeamRabbitRun Quote
+BlackRose67 Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 I have out a couple of hides with containers that have smaller openings but I put a blinkie inside. That way it will fall out easily. I am thinking of trying this with some of our kayak to hides as I think the container will float with the changing water levels. Any bets on how long it will last before someone posts they dropped the smaller container in the water? If you're putting a blinkie in it, either the blinkie or the log is going to go swimming. Blinkies and their super small logs are a PITA at the best of times...on the water, even more so. Quote
4wheelin_fool Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 Coke bottles are fine for hides. Paint the inside brown, but only halfway up. Drill a hole in the bottom and glue in the bottom of a bison tube. Next, fill the bottle half way up with cement, and after it dries top off with some brownish liquid and glue the top shut with gorrilla glue. It should appear as a full bottle of coke with a lid that won't come off, and with the bison tube sticking out of the bottom. Quote
+Mineral2 Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 Coke bottles are fine for hides. Paint the inside brown, but only halfway up. Drill a hole in the bottom and glue in the bottom of a bison tube. Next, fill the bottle half way up with cement, and after it dries top off with some brownish liquid and glue the top shut with gorrilla glue. It should appear as a full bottle of coke with a lid that won't come off, and with the bison tube sticking out of the bottom. In this case, the coke bottle isn't the actual container, but the camouflage. The bison tube is the container. Quote
+niraD Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 I have out a couple of hides with containers that have smaller openings but I put a blinkie inside. That way it will fall out easily. I am thinking of trying this with some of our kayak to hides as I think the container will float with the changing water levels. Any bets on how long it will last before someone posts they dropped the smaller container in the water? I generally don't have a problem with blinkers, and usually don't even need tweezers to get the log out. But that doesn't sound like something I'd want to deal with while in a kayak. The best cache design I've seen for kayak caches uses a large PVC pipe as an outer container, with a plastic wide-mouth bottle as an inner container. The inner bottle is waterproof and protects the log from moisture. The outer PVC provides structural protection for the inner bottle, and can be secured in place with a chain or cable to keep it from floating away. Quote
+Bardenl Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 Here in Maryland (lots of rain, some snow, heat, rarely goes below 10 degrees F). I've had good luck with nut jars. They are clear plastic containers sold holding 32 ounces of cashews, trail mix or similar. My first has been out for just over 3 years. It is hidden in a raised bed next to a historical church under a boxwood bush. It's never been muggled or attacked by insects or animals. I ran it through the dishwasher before putting it out, just for cleanliness. I like the ones where the sides are smooth and vertical. I print out a paper green geocaching label from the ad on geocaching.com at 110% or so and tape it to the outside and then cover it with clear packaging tape, making sure the label edges are not exposed. To my surprise, I haven't even needed to replace the label. On a later one, I taped the label to the inside with just tabs of scotch tape, and that's held up too. Everything shows nicely through the clear plastic. The cache is handicap accessible and designed for children, plenty of room for lots of swag and several TBs. I did invest in a small write in rain logbook for my first one, but that was my only real cost. I think it's great for relatively new cachers to try putting out one of their own. As I remember, I had under 50 finds when I did mine. I thought our area of the county could use more hides, and I like finding regular size caches. I only know one other cacher in our area who tries to keep "regular" caches predominant in his stats. I have mine at roughly 1/3 of all finds. I do love finding old ammo cans. GC39 near where I grew up was a great find. Quote
+Deuce7331 Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 Has anyone tried the Ammo boxes from Harbor Frieght? http://www.harborfreight.com/ammo-box-61451.html Quote
+JohnCNA Posted August 18, 2014 Posted August 18, 2014 Those plastic ammo cans are OK. They don't do well if laying on their side, though. Because of the softer plastic, the lid doesn't generate enough pressure for as tight a seal as the metal cans do. I have a couple and I can't complain, especially with the price. Quote
Night_Hiker Posted August 18, 2014 Posted August 18, 2014 A 3 ML Syringe tube will remain water tight for years. Cut the end off that the needle screws in and shorten the shaft to about an inch n a half. Really perfect for custom designs, such as a fake bolt or behind a reflector. To get the best seal you ideally need another sealing ring for another syringe, but you could fill the bottom with super glue and that would do the trick. Quote
+T.D.M.22 Posted August 18, 2014 Posted August 18, 2014 I actually found a duct tape container(micro size)Had magnets in it, and was designed to keep water out. Not bad- even if you reace it once a month, that would be less than $2 per year. Quote
+4heberts Posted August 23, 2014 Posted August 23, 2014 We've been using test strip containers for a while, they work great. If you know someone who uses protein or other supplements (4heberts #3 spends time every day in the gym), those containers are heavy plastic and have nice, wide mouths. In the Deep South we often have problems with moisture collecting in all kinds of containers; the solution can be as easy as drilling a tiny hole in the bottom of the container--allows moisture to escape (we still have to bag the log or use a rite in the rain type). Quote
+colleda Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 7 hours ago, Taikoman said: Altoid containers Yep, so good that I used one here GC5JFF5 Quote
+L0ne.R Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 13 hours ago, Taikoman said: Altoid containers 1 Quote
+cerberus1 Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 Similar to LOne.R, with a couple dozen found, we only found one altoids container that didn't have a science project growing inside (a multi stage inside a cabin). I'd guess arid environments a big plus for those. Quote
+NYPaddleCacher Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 42 minutes ago, cerberus1 said: Similar to LOne.R, with a couple dozen found, we only found one altoids container that didn't have a science project growing inside (a multi stage inside a cabin). I'd guess arid environments a big plus for those. I haven't found a lot of these but I found a rusty, moldy mess of a container at a cache in North Carolina at a very interesting location. It's unfortunate that I remember how bad the container was more than how good the location was. 1 Quote
+justintim1999 Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 On 1/1/2011 at 9:38 PM, dfx said: peanut butter jar. A plastic peanut butter jars works well, just take an old bicycle inner tube, cut it open and lay it flat. Cut out a piece that will fit inside the lid of the peanut butter jar and glue it in. This will give you a nice seal when it's closed and should last...... Well I actually don't know how long it will last. I've had one out for almost 5 years now and it's still as dry as ever. 1 Quote
+hzoi Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, cerberus1 said: Similar to LOne.R, with a couple dozen found, we only found one altoids container that didn't have a science project growing inside (a multi stage inside a cabin). I'd guess arid environments a big plus for those. It still rains in the desert. And uncoated metal still rusts in the desert. I've come across many a cookie tin or Altoid tin in the desert that had a parchment-like log from getting wet, drying out, getting wet...which I only discovered after finally prying the rusty lid open. As for great containers I have around my house? Why, fat 50 ammo cans, of course. Edited February 9, 2018 by hzoi Quote
+L0ne.R Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 4 hours ago, justintim1999 said: A plastic peanut butter jars works well, just take an old bicycle inner tube, cut it open and lay it flat. Cut out a piece that will fit inside the lid of the peanut butter jar and glue it in. This will give you a nice seal when it's closed and should last...... Well I actually don't know how long it will last. I've had one out for almost 5 years now and it's still as dry as ever. Another material I've used for a gasket is craft fun foam. It's held up nicely for 3+ years anytime I've used it. I do the same thing, cut out a piece to fit inside the lid. It's cheap, I think I can get 10 pieces of fun foam for a $1 at the dollar store. People upcycling a peanut butter jars probably don't want to spend much on the cache. I like the inner tube idea though, that would make a very nice solid gasket. 1 Quote
+noncentric Posted February 9, 2018 Posted February 9, 2018 Peanut butter jar with weather stripping lining the lid. The thing I like about this is that the weather strip already has self-stick on one side, which makes it easier to secure the strip to the lid. Plastic nut jars, from Costco, seem like they'll work well. Relatively large containers, with a wide mouth opening. I have a pill bottle that I'm going put out, with a gasket added. I'm going to list it as a "small". It's 60 drams, which is approx 200 ml. I would use lock-n-locks, but all of ours are of the glass variety. 4 hours ago, justintim1999 said: I've had one out for almost 5 years now and it's still as dry as ever. The real test of it's effectiveness would be having two jars side-by-side, one with and the other without the gasket, and then comparing the gasketed one with the non-gasketed one. Otherwise, it could be that the jar would've been dry even without the tube gasket. Quote
Taikoman Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 Also empty sprinkles containers. I made chocolate chip cookie dough (but I was out of chocolate chips.) And ended up using a whole sprinkles jar. And decided to turn it into a geocache. Not posted yet though Quote
+Mineral2 Posted February 11, 2018 Posted February 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Taikoman said: Also empty sprinkles containers. I made chocolate chip cookie dough (but I was out of chocolate chips.) And ended up using a whole sprinkles jar. And decided to turn it into a geocache. Not posted yet though also not waterproof or durable. 1 Quote
+noncentric Posted February 11, 2018 Posted February 11, 2018 21 minutes ago, Mineral2 said: 5 hours ago, Taikoman said: Also empty sprinkles containers. I made chocolate chip cookie dough (but I was out of chocolate chips.) And ended up using a whole sprinkles jar. And decided to turn it into a geocache. Not posted yet though also not waterproof or durable. It does, of course, depend on what "sprinkles container". There are large jars of over 1-pound of sprinkles that would be just fine, especially if some type of gasket/seal was added to the inside of the lid. The smaller sprinkle jars, like 4-6oz plastic spice containers, are more likely to be problematic. I've come across several, even some glass ones, that were wet inside. Quote
+justintim1999 Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 On 2/9/2018 at 5:43 PM, L0ne.R said: Another material I've used for a gasket is craft fun foam. It's held up nicely for 3+ years anytime I've used it. I do the same thing, cut out a piece to fit inside the lid. It's cheap, I think I can get 10 pieces of fun foam for a $1 at the dollar store. People upcycling a peanut butter jars probably don't want to spend much on the cache. I like the inner tube idea though, that would make a very nice solid gasket. A Geocacher/Kayaker friend of mine told me about the inner tube trick. They also drilled a hole in the cover and inserted a threaded eye bolt using a nut and a few metal and rubber washers. This way they could attach a carbineer and tether it to the kayak. It would keep any personal items dry in case they rolled over. Of course you could tether it just about anything to make an interesting cache hide. 1 Quote
MrEnder666 Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 On 1/2/2011 at 4:46 PM, L0ne.R said: The thing about aspirin containers or any jar where the neck is narrower then the body, it can be tough getting the logsheet out of the container. Try to make the logsheet long enough to reach the neck of the container. (if possible) Quote
+cerberus1 Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 9 hours ago, MrEnder666 said: Try to make the logsheet long enough to reach the neck of the container. (if possible) I believe we've seen most combinations of trying to make worn, repeatedly-unrolled or unfolded paper stay put. We've seen some suggestions on making it work here in the forums, but haven't experienced it in use ourselves yet. When you finally go caching, if you spot a container similar, please stop back with your findings. Thanks. 1 1 Quote
+Mineral2 Posted May 31, 2019 Posted May 31, 2019 I have seen some aspirin containers with pvc tubes stuck in them. It just seems like extra work to rig an already mediocre container. I love that we're trying to repurpose disposable household items into geocaches. It cuts down on waste and prevents some of these from seeing the landfill, at least temporarily. That said, most of these containers have their faults. Even my kool-aid containers turned out not to be entirely waterproof. They're great if they get hidden in an upright position, but if knocked on their side, they may not be dry come spring. To combat that, I have started using prescription pill bottles to hold log sheets and drop those in the home-made cache containers. The extra level of protection seems to keep the log dry when moisture does get into the main chamber. Here in the northwest, pill bottles are a terrible idea for a geocache that's exposed in any way to the elements. But they can still have their uses to hold logs when placed inside larger cache containers. Quote
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