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Favorite Points, best new feature, However!


Rosemark

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This Favorites feature is one of the beat ideas they have came up with in a long time? HOWEVER

 

They only allow us to assign one point to a cache! I only have 3 to 4 caches that I would classify as "My Favortites" I have assigned them 1 point each, and I have 87 points that I can not use because I don't have 87 favorite caches, so I have no real need to earn more points. Why can't I assigm more than one of my points of a cache?

 

What are your ideas on this!

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You are asking to be allowed to use more than one point on the same cache. Think about what that would mean: People with more finds would have more votes than people with fewer finds. (In the same way that larger states have more electoral college votes in the USA.)

 

This implies that your opinion carries more weight than mine. I only have 23 favorite points. I do not think your system is fair!

 

One person, one cache, one vote!

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If you'd really like to use all your points, maybe you could use the term "favorite" a bit less literally. Spend them how you like, but clearly Groundspeak isn't giving out one point for every ten because they only want the "best of the best caches" to have some points. If you want to use them, use them. I'm definitely against the idea of people being able to use them all on a few caches. If that were the case, searches in my area would only highlight the few legendary caches I've already found, lol

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This isn't a Chicago election. You can't vote twice.

 

If anything, it points out that you need to find better caches.

 

I just went trough all of my finds and voted for all of those that stood above the rest. I'm left with 212 points. I never really thought about it, but it's hard to deny the fact that I have found a lot of caches that really weren't that good.

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This isn't a Chicago election. You can't vote twice.

 

If anything, it points out that you need to find better caches.

 

I just went trough all of my finds and voted for all of those that stood above the rest. I'm left with 212 points. I never really thought about it, but it's hard to deny the fact that I have found a lot of caches that really weren't that good.

I wonder if being paperless has anything to do with it?

I don't know if you are paperless, but before I WAS I went and found caches based on their descriptions and logs. I usually didn't seek a cache unless it WAS cool. Now that it's paperless, we find ourselves just finding whatever and the quality seems to have slipped. YMMV

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Weighted voting is not that foreign of an idea. Look a the feedback site. There you have a limited number of votes and you can vote 1, 2, or 3 votes for the ideas you want to support. If the purpose of the favorite voting was to award the cache with some number of votes, it might make sense to allow cachers to vote two or three times for a particularly good cache and only once for a cache that was not quite as good. But I doubt anyone would agree that you should be able to dump all 87 of your vote on one cache.

 

I view the favorite count as the number of cachers who would recommend doing this cache. If all of sudden some cachers were allowed to recommend the cache two or more times, it would have less meaning for me. If someone adds the cache to there favorite list it means the cache stands out in some way and that this is a cache you would recommend to others. I don't few favorite as meaning that this is some super-fantastic cache that deserves more points than another cache. Since cachers have different taste, what one person thinks is super-fantastic may not be the same as what another thinks. I'd just like to know which caches you would recommend to others. The more people who recommend a cache the more likely it will have some feature I might enjoy. I actually think that instead of "favorites" it should have been called "like" or "recommend". If you don't have 87 favorite caches, perhaps you have 87 that you could recommend?

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If I were looking at more favored caches, I would much rather see a cache that was "favorited" by 3 or 4 cachers, over a cache that may have 10 points by one cacher. I wouldn't want to see any kind of weighted or stacked rating. I'm looking for diversity, not some single cacher's idea of whats best, and that can only be achieved by input from multiple people, not multiple inputs from one person.

 

I don't like the idea of being able to give a cache more than one vote.

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The favorites system is obviously in its infancy, and there are some good points being brought up about how it could be used and/or changed. I think they picked a pretty good compromise with its implementation.

 

I already had a bookmark list of my truly favorite, best-of-the-best caches, and I will continue to keep that list. It only has 6 caches on it currently; they are the ones which really stood out for me. If anyone ever cares what I thought were the very best that I've found, that list is there.

 

When the favorites system was implemented, the caches from that list were the natural first entries to add. From there, I went through my finds, and figured out which others to add. I think I agree with a previous poster, in that 'favorites' might not be the best name for it; it's more of a liked or preferred list (though I can certainly see that 'like' would be far too FB-like). Some were no-brainers to add, while others took a bit more consideration. I mostly chose ones which either took me to a really cool place, or had a particularly good puzzle, or an unusually cool container.

 

It would be interesting if a ratio of favorite points to finds would be added in the future. One of my favorites which is also on my best-of-the-best list has 2 favorites, by both of us who have ever found it. ;)

 

With the current system, I believe I agree with a single vote per cacher. On the other hand, I could see the potential validity of a non-binary rating system, where one could assign a value rather than a simple yes or no. Not sure which would actually be better...there are so many variables to consider. Another idea might be more than one favorite category, like one for really excellent favorites, and another for caches which you would recommend, but not necessarily the most amazing ever. I suppose the thinking is that this would be redundant, as a cache which gets a lot of favorites relative to finds should be something pretty special already.

 

That could be an interesting exercise...correlate my best-of-the-best list to the ratio of favorites to finds on the whole favorites list.

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Weighted voting is not that foreign of an idea. Look a the feedback site. There you have a limited number of votes and you can vote 1, 2, or 3 votes for the ideas you want to support.

Yes. It's not as if a system that allows folks some limited weighting to their choices is somehow inherently unfair. It works well with the feedback site; it's good to see which issues people feel particularly passionate about. I haven't seen any feedback topics started suggesting that feedback voting is un-American.

 

I think it would work well here. For someone with 1000 finds, being able to commit up to 3 points for one cache doesn't seem particularly distortive, and it would allow folks to slightly differentiate between caches that they liked and caches that they'd place on their "top 1%" list of whathaveyou. The original voting rubric could be preserved with very little effort; the three numbers people could see might be:

 

- cachers that voted for this listing (this exists now)

- percent of cachers that voted for this listing (this exists only as a greasemonkey script by Lil Devil)

- total number of points committed to this cache (call this the 'feedback suggestion')

 

So if a cache is found by 20 people and 5 people voted for it with 3 giving it one vote, and one each giving it two votes and three votes, the numbers would look like this:

 

- 5

- 25%

- 8

 

Seems simple enough to preserve what people already like, but add another layer for those who are interested in displaying their passions.

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I have nearly a hundred points left over and seriously doubt that I will ever use more than a third of what I have been allocated. I have osteoarthritis, chronic lower back pain, and am somewhat forgetful. So I do a lot of park and grabs, and I remember only the really standout caches that I have found. The system works pretty well for me. :)

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You are under no obligation to use all of your favorite points.

 

of course I am under no obligation to use all of my Points, but I would Like to!!! I would like to use them on my Favorite caches, but I can't cuz it won't let me assign more than one to a cache

Why would you "like to" use all of your votes? Why would you care if you don't? The point is not to use up your votes... the point is to call attention to worthwhile caches.

 

 

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You are under no obligation to use all of your favorite points.

 

of course I am under no obligation to use all of my Points, but I would Like to!!! I would like to use them on my Favorite caches, but I can't cuz it won't let me assign more than one to a cache

Why would you "like to" use all of your votes? Why would you care if you don't? The point is not to use up your votes... the point is to call attention to worthwhile caches.

 

In my case I don't have enough points. I was a few caches shy on my 92 favorites points.

 

I pick and choose my caches carefully, so I'll need to find about 25 crappy uhhh less than favoritable caches to be able to bestow favorite points to allll of my favorites. :laughing:

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You are under no obligation to use all of your favorite points.

 

I have 276 left can I sell them on E-Bay ?

 

Who would want them? Seriously. If you need more favorite points because more than 10% of your finds are worthy of "favorite" status then you must live in geocache heaven. 1 point per 10 finds seriously devalues these things in my opinion. 1 per 30 may even be too much.

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I realize assigning your "favorite" point is subjective but I've noticed a couple of cachers rating all of their FTFs with points.

 

I can understand why someone feels a special connection to caches they landed the FTF for but it seems to me (only my opinion here) that this isn't necessarily what the point rating system was meant to be used for. :unsure:

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I realize assigning your "favorite" point is subjective but I've noticed a couple of cachers rating all of their FTFs with points.

 

I can understand why someone feels a special connection to caches they landed the FTF for but it seems to me (only my opinion here) that this isn't necessarily what the point rating system was meant to be used for. :unsure:

I expect people to vote for favorites for reasons that don't match my own. After all, I'm voting for favorites that some people consider abominations (e.g., the blinkers on public sculptures).

 

To be most useful, I think the favorites system needs two additional features. First, we need to be able to sort/search based on the ratio of favorites to finds. Actually, as Markwell pointed out in the feedback forum, the correct ratio is the number of favorites to the number of finds by people who use the favorites system. Basic members who can't vote for favorites and premium members who haven't voted for any favorites shouldn't count, if you're being accurate.

 

Second, the system needs to correlate the favorites of different people, to show me caches that were enjoyed by those with preferences that are similar to my own. I don't care about the favorites of someone who just votes for his buddies' caches. I don't care about the favorites of someone who just votes for his FTFs. I don't care about the favorites of parents who just want big caches with "treasure" for their kids. I don't care about the favorites of 4x4/scuba/rock-climbing/whatever enthusiasts who like only 5-star terrain. And they probably don't care about my favorites either.

 

But we aren't there yet. It will be interesting to see how the favorites system develops, and I expect it to become more and more useful over time.

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You are under no obligation to use all of your favorite points.

 

of course I am under no obligation to use all of my Points, but I would Like to!!! I would like to use them on my Favorite caches, but I can't cuz it won't let me assign more than one to a cache

Why would you "like to" use all of your votes? Why would you care if you don't? The point is not to use up your votes... the point is to call attention to worthwhile caches.

 

Some people also feel a need to use all their coupons when they go shopping even if they are for something they don't use. Guess it is just the way some of us are wired.

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What are your ideas on this!

Pick the ones that are the least horrible. Or hang onto the points. You're bound to find good caches someday. I used up all my points, and had fun, picking the pretty neat caches I've found (one of which is obviously missing, sorta in limbo until the CO takes some action). Sure, none of them were Wonders Of The World.

 

...Are they actually all that bad? What kind of an armpit of a place do you live in? :unsure:

Edited by kunarion
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This Favorites feature is one of the beat ideas they have came up with in a long time? HOWEVER

 

They only allow us to assign one point to a cache! I only have 3 to 4 caches that I would classify as "My Favortites" I have assigned them 1 point each, and I have 87 points that I can not use because I don't have 87 favorite caches, so I have no real need to earn more points. Why can't I assigm more than one of my points of a cache?

 

What are your ideas on this!

 

Well! I give in, seems most like the favorites the way they are!

 

However! someone here gave me an idea how I can use my points for my own benifit...

 

No one likes the idea of FTF stats, so I will assign 1 point to each of my FTF's this way I can more easily keep up with my FTF's and keep track of them for my stats!

 

I know! Some (alot) of you will dog me for this, but hey, I don't like the way the points are used, so I will just use mine in a way they will help me!

 

Thanks for your imput on this subject!

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This Favorites feature is one of the beat ideas they have came up with in a long time? HOWEVER

 

They only allow us to assign one point to a cache! I only have 3 to 4 caches that I would classify as "My Favortites" I have assigned them 1 point each, and I have 87 points that I can not use because I don't have 87 favorite caches, so I have no real need to earn more points. Why can't I assigm more than one of my points of a cache?

 

What are your ideas on this!

 

Well! I give in, seems most like the favorites the way they are!

 

However! someone here gave me an idea how I can use my points for my own benifit...

 

No one likes the idea of FTF stats, so I will assign 1 point to each of my FTF's this way I can more easily keep up with my FTF's and keep track of them for my stats!

 

I know! Some (alot) of you will dog me for this, but hey, I don't like the way the points are used, so I will just use mine in a way they will help me!

 

Thanks for your imput on this subject!

Just make a bookmark list. Then they won't be mixed with anything else, and won't confuse anybody.

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I think it can skew the ratings and make them less useful to me. When I see a cache that has been favorited 10 times I want to know it means that 10 people counted it as a favorite, not that one person really, really, really liked it.

I wouldn't advocate for getting to vote 10 times, but 3 votes might not be too bad. It seems to work well on the Feedback system.

 

Why not both? Total points, and total cachers voting? Folks could ignore whichever of the ratings they find useless (or both, if they'd prefer).

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This Favorites feature is one of the beat ideas they have came up with in a long time? HOWEVER

 

They only allow us to assign one point to a cache! I only have 3 to 4 caches that I would classify as "My Favortites" I have assigned them 1 point each, and I have 87 points that I can not use because I don't have 87 favorite caches, so I have no real need to earn more points. Why can't I assigm more than one of my points of a cache?

 

What are your ideas on this!

 

Well! I give in, seems most like the favorites the way they are!

 

However! someone here gave me an idea how I can use my points for my own benifit...

 

No one likes the idea of FTF stats, so I will assign 1 point to each of my FTF's this way I can more easily keep up with my FTF's and keep track of them for my stats!

 

I know! Some (alot) of you will dog me for this, but hey, I don't like the way the points are used, so I will just use mine in a way they will help me!

 

Thanks for your imput on this subject!

Just make a bookmark list. Then they won't be mixed with anything else, and won't confuse anybody.

 

+1...Please do what Ambrosia suggests to allow the "favorites" to fulfill their primary purpose instead of as your FTF record. A separate bookmark list of your own would be much easier for you to maintain and many "FTF hounds" already do this.

Edited by Teach2Learn
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This Favorites feature is one of the beat ideas they have came up with in a long time? HOWEVER

 

They only allow us to assign one point to a cache! I only have 3 to 4 caches that I would classify as "My Favortites" I have assigned them 1 point each, and I have 87 points that I can not use because I don't have 87 favorite caches, so I have no real need to earn more points. Why can't I assigm more than one of my points of a cache?

 

What are your ideas on this!

 

Well! I give in, seems most like the favorites the way they are!

 

However! someone here gave me an idea how I can use my points for my own benifit...

 

No one likes the idea of FTF stats, so I will assign 1 point to each of my FTF's this way I can more easily keep up with my FTF's and keep track of them for my stats!

 

I know! Some (alot) of you will dog me for this, but hey, I don't like the way the points are used, so I will just use mine in a way they will help me!

 

Thanks for your imput on this subject!

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Hi Rosemark,

 

to use these point to your own benefit sell them on ebay.

One german cacher offers his point as you may see here:

 

http://cgi.ebay.de/Geocachingpunkte-Favorite-points-/300507470342?pt=CE_Auto_Hi_Fi_Mobile_Navigationssysteme_GPS&hash=item45f7a41a06#ht_500wt_1156

 

I don't know if this ebay-site is also available in english. He sells one point the offer stand at 2,50 Euro today.

 

PPz&Perro

 

 

 

This Favorites feature is one of the beat ideas they have came up with in a long time? HOWEVER

 

They only allow us to assign one point to a cache! I only have 3 to 4 caches that I would classify as "My Favortites" I have assigned them 1 point each, and I have 87 points that I can not use because I don't have 87 favorite caches, so I have no real need to earn more points. Why can't I assigm more than one of my points of a cache?

 

What are your ideas on this!

 

Well! I give in, seems most like the favorites the way they are!

 

However! someone here gave me an idea how I can use my points for my own benifit...

 

No one likes the idea of FTF stats, so I will assign 1 point to each of my FTF's this way I can more easily keep up with my FTF's and keep track of them for my stats!

 

I know! Some (alot) of you will dog me for this, but hey, I don't like the way the points are used, so I will just use mine in a way they will help me!

 

Thanks for your imput on this subject!

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It si obvioue to me that you don't get it this is why they need systems like this to protect us from people like you!

If you cast 10 votes for one cache how do we know if 10 people like this cache or just one person really likes it?

That system gives no reference.

With the current system the more favorite marks a cache has the more people that would recomend it simple.

 

As for using your points for ftf's because it benefits you , well I guess thats why you find so many poor caches, because everyone is out for number one and screw everyone else. not really an ideal Geocaching atitude is it.

 

or maybe you should lower your standards, one in ten means the top 10% of sites get highlighted if I go to a new area thats the kind of help i want in finding caches to go for, it means I miss 90% of the crap.

 

I really hope you re thing your ftf thing and don't spoil things for everyone else.

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If you cast 10 votes for one cache how do we know if 10 people like this cache or just one person really likes it?

That system gives no reference.

With the current system the more favorite marks a cache has the more people that would recomend it simple.

I think that 10 votes is probably too many. The Feedback system works well with up to three votes.

 

It's not clear to me that you couldn't preserve what you want to preserve with that system. The data on the number of cachers who voted would still be available and displayable.

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We have over 3100 finds, so we have just over 310 favorites points to distribute. So far we've tagged a little over 50. I don't feel any need to "spend" the remaining 260 any time soon. If I think of any previous finds that I've overlooked, I might go back and tag them, but otherwise, they'll just sit in the bank.

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I think that 'favorites' doesn't have to mean the best cache in the world? It can just be Caches you enjoyed for any reason? Some of the 'favorites' I picked were not anything more than a nicely placed ammo can on a pretty hike? Or a well cammoed container in an urban setting?

 

I don't think you should be able to use more than one favorite point on any one cache?

 

another post said this: 'If you'd really like to use all your points, maybe you could use the term "favorite" a bit less literally.' I agree... pick some caches you enjoyed, or brought you to an interesting spot/view...

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I think allowing up to 3 votes per cache per user would have been a workable solution. After all, it seems workable on the feedback site. And the current system of 1 vote per cache per user is also workable. But allowing much more than 3 votes per cache per user would give a single user too much influence.

 

However, allowing more than 1 vote per cache per user would be a pretty big change to the way the favorites system works. Many people (myself included) would assign our favorites votes differently, and frankly, I don't think the benefit of changing the system is worth the hassle that would be caused by doing so at at this point.

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I think allowing up to 3 votes per cache per user would have been a workable solution. After all, it seems workable on the feedback site. And the current system of 1 vote per cache per user is also workable. But allowing much more than 3 votes per cache per user would give a single user too much influence.

 

However, allowing more than 1 vote per cache per user would be a pretty big change to the way the favorites system works. Many people (myself included) would assign our favorites votes differently, and frankly, I don't think the benefit of changing the system is worth the hassle that would be caused by doing so at at this point.

I don't think I can disagree with either paragraph.

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One thought I did have is we need to get as many users as possible to start using the favorites system.

In the uk it has not been publicised so it will take a while for it to catch on.

It will be nice to see in six months, how many caches in my area have a favorite mark? only time will tell

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I quite like the way the awards work. What I would like, however, is some way of seeing/searching based on the visits to favourites ratio. For instance, I can see plenty in London with 30 votes from over 1,000 finds, but others with 10 votes from 20 finds. Clearly the second is likely to be a better cache despite the lower number of votes. Perhaps GS could look at including the percentage of finds that award a favourite point on the pocket queries and results pages.

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I see your point the only thing i can see is if someone has done maybe 1000 caches, to date they are not going to remember all those caches in detail and give every deserving cache it favorite mark.

So iI think we need to start from now really so a percentage of the number of people from now on that go to a cache !

Although i think the system will work just fine as it is, I think outstanding caches will soon start to rack up favorite marks.

when all said and done im still going to look at the log of a cache and all the other things I do, now to decide if I am going do it,this is just one more pointer in the right direction.

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This Favorites feature is one of the beat ideas they have came up with in a long time? HOWEVER

 

They only allow us to assign one point to a cache! I only have 3 to 4 caches that I would classify as "My Favortites" I have assigned them 1 point each, and I have 87 points that I can not use because I don't have 87 favorite caches, so I have no real need to earn more points. Why can't I assigm more than one of my points of a cache?

 

What are your ideas on this!

 

Well! I give in, seems most like the favorites the way they are!

 

However! someone here gave me an idea how I can use my points for my own benifit...

 

No one likes the idea of FTF stats, so I will assign 1 point to each of my FTF's this way I can more easily keep up with my FTF's and keep track of them for my stats!

 

I know! Some (alot) of you will dog me for this, but hey, I don't like the way the points are used, so I will just use mine in a way they will help me!

 

Thanks for your imput on this subject!

 

Proof that no matter what system you come up with, someone will bastardize it.

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No one likes the idea of FTF stats, so I will assign 1 point to each of my FTF's this way I can more easily keep up with my FTF's and keep track of them for my stats!

 

But, why do that? You can make a bookmark list, and bookmark your FTF caches.

 

That way you can label it FTF, it doesn't limit you to 1 out of every 10, and it doesn't mean you have have to mark a "lame" cache as a favorite.

 

You could even make the bookmark list public if you want.

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I've been waiting for some type of rating system since I started caching about 6 years ago. Thank you, alas! I just wanted to make a few comments:

 

1) The original poster wanted to be able to assign more than 1 favorite vote to a cache. This essentially would make it become a cache rating system, rather than a cache recommendation system. I don't know all of the reasoning that geocaching.com used to select the current system, but apparently they chose the "1 vote for 1 cache" approach. Perhaps it is to avoid retaliation scoring by those that have their caches rated poorly or maybe to limit artificial high scoring for your friend's caches.

 

2) I've found about 200 geocaches. I looked at my list of finds and fairly quickly came up with 21 caches that I enjoyed finding and would recommend as being significantly better than typical. So, at least in my case, I think the 1 favorite vote for each 10 finds is about right.

If the 1 favorite vote to number of finds was changed to a larger number of finds, my fewer favorite votes would be assigned to a smaller number of caches that others had already voted as favorites. This would result in only a small handfull of great caches having a very high number of favorite votes. I feel the current ratio of 1 vote for 10 finds will allow the distribution of favorites to be spread out more which would result in a more complete ranking system which will include "good" and "very good" caches as well as the "great caches.

I would, however, suggest that the name for these votes be changed to "recommend", instead of "favorite" since I think it would more closely represent a 10% (1 in 10) preference. The term "favorite" would seem to represent more like a 1% (1 in 100) preference for most people.

 

3) I really like the idea that someone mentioned about also including the percentage of favorites, in addition to the number. This would make a more equal playing field for the new caches that haven't benefitted from a lot of finds yet.

I would suggest that the number of favorite votes remain as well. This would help the numbers for older proven caches which people with a lot of finds (>1000) probably don't remember and which have been found by people who have left the game and won't be assigning favorites. Having both metrics allow cachers to pick from whichever they prefer.

 

4) I'm glad that a provision to remove favorite votes was included. As people start using the favorites numbers to select which caches to look for, they are destined to find more caches that they like. Being able to remove previous votes from past caches will free up their votes to assign to these newly found caches. This will keep their votes associated with the top 10% of all of their finds as the system intends.

 

I believe that the new "favorites" system will greatly improve my attitude toward caching. I've been discouraged lately with a lot of "lame" finds. I recently moved to a new area with hundreds of caches. Since my goal isn't to find ALL the caches in the area, this will greatly help me decide which quality caches to seek.

 

medoug.

Edited by medoug
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I love the new system, though of course there are some other features I would love to see. For instance, I would love to be able to quickly see a list of users who have favorited two or more of the same caches I've chosen. I'm not terribly active in the GC community, and it would be nice to find locals (or non-locals who have been to some of the same places I have) who look for the same things in caches as I do.

 

I had no problem finding one in ten caches that were "favorites" of my - admittedly small - finds. As I find more and more caches, I expect that my standards will become higher, to the point where I won't feel the need to make ten percent of my finds "favorites." While you might look at that as having points that are going to waste, I'm not so sure I agree. What I prefer to do is to look at all of the caches someone has listed as a favorite. For instance, if I'm looking at a cache page and see that Joe Schmoe has favorited it, and then I see that he has also favorited a bunch of lamp post hides, I'm probably not going to put too much stock in his vote.

 

Moreover, if he has 800 finds and only 2 or 3 favorites, I'm much more likely to go seek those out.

Edited by California66er
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I have marked over two dozen caches as Favorites. But as I have nearly 450 Finds, I still have 18 Favorite votes unused. I'm find with this. Unless a cacher is very particular about the caches they search for, I suspect most cachers do not have 10% of their Finds be especially memorable.

 

Favorites votes are like money: don't waste them, don't feel the need to spend all of them simply because you have them, and hope you always have some extra for when you really need them.

Edited by joshism
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I see your point the only thing i can see is if someone has done maybe 1000 caches, to date they are not going to remember all those caches in detail and give every deserving cache it favorite mark.

So iI think we need to start from now really so a percentage of the number of people from now on that go to a cache !

Although i think the system will work just fine as it is, I think outstanding caches will soon start to rack up favorite marks.

when all said and done im still going to look at the log of a cache and all the other things I do, now to decide if I am going do it,this is just one more pointer in the right direction.

 

Well, if it wasn't good enough to be remembered it probably isn't good enough to be a favorite.

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