Logging archived EarthCaches as finds

[+Manville Possum]

We all know that suspected bogus find (Armchair logs) logs are to be deleted by the CO, but how is this possible if the CO is no longer a registered user?

Why is this allowed, and is there anything that can be done about it?

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=af8b7366-00a2-4caf-89d3-0b4128a9226e

 

Thanks, let's preserve the integerty of EarthCaching.

[+ArtieD]

Can you prove that the person was not there? Not everyone logs all their caches all at once, especially since people often travel for the holidays.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Arthur & Trillian

[+Manville Possum]

Can you prove that the person was not there? Not everyone logs all their caches all at once, especially since people often travel for the holidays.

Your log was posted 20 days after the cache was archived, and you say that you were visiting during Christmas. Can you prove that you were there? I know the area, can you tell me anything about it?

 

OpenCaching.com in the EarthCache forums, post #65 for anyone to view.

 

Please fellow EarthCachers, let's keep the integerty of EarthCaches and earthcache.org

According to guidelines suspected bogus logs are to be deleted, but that is not possible if the CO is no longer a registered user. If nothing is done to correct this, Armchair logging will be given the green light, and being a Platinum EarthCache Master will only require developing 3 EC's and bogus logs in 5 States. I have worked too hard to become a Platinim EC Master to let abusers of the system mess this up.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Manville Possum Hunters

[+ArtieD]

So the date on a log for an archived cache that can still be logged matters how? I still wonder why you are bringing it up...it's not your cache, and the usual advice that I have heard is that the issue is between me and the cache owner.

 

What's your real motivation here? Could it be this, perhaps?

 

"I think that being discredited and publicly embarrassed would hurt little cry babies more...

 

BIG SNIP...

 

This monkey still has some poo to throw first."

 

ETA: Here's the link to said statement... https://forums.opencaching.com/showthread.php?44-Earthcaches&p=1342&viewfull=1#post1342

Edited December 27, 2010 by Arthur & Trillian

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

So the date on a log for an archived cache that can still be logged matters how? I still wonder why you are bringing it up...it's not your cache, and the usual advice that I have heard is that the issue is between me and the cache owner.

 

What's your real motivation here? Could it be this, perhaps?

 

"I think that being discredited and publicly embarrassed would hurt little cry babies more...

 

BIG SNIP...

 

This monkey still has some poo to throw first."

 

ETA: Here's the link to said statement... https://forums.opencaching.com/showthread.php?44-Earthcaches&p=1342&viewfull=1#post1342

Good grief!

[+Manville Possum]

So the date on a log for an archived cache that can still be logged matters how? I still wonder why you are bringing it up...it's not your cache, and the usual advice that I have heard is that the issue is between me and the cache owner.

 

What's your real motivation here? Could it be this, perhaps?

 

"I think that being discredited and publicly embarrassed would hurt little cry babies more...

 

BIG SNIP...

 

This monkey still has some poo to throw first."

 

ETA: Here's the link to said statement... https://forums.opencaching.com/showthread.php?44-Earthcaches&p=1342&viewfull=1#post1342

Good grief!

Bulls Eye with the first toss! Yes, it is my plan to leave the GC.com forums 01/01/2011. But this thread is about keeping the integerty of EarthCaching, if any is left.

[+ArtieD]

Bulls Eye with the first toss! Yes, it is my plan to leave the GC.com forums 01/01/2011. But this thread is about starting a pointless call-out thread that has no value whatsoever.

 

Fixed for accuracy.

[+Manville Possum]

Bulls Eye with the first toss! Yes, it is my plan to leave the GC.com forums 01/01/2011. But this thread is about starting a pointless call-out thread that has no value whatsoever.

 

Fixed for accuracy.

No, really A&T. Myself and many others have worked very hard and done the requirements to become Platinum EarthCache Masters. I'm at Gold level now, and all I need is one more find in another State. It's not about you and the CO of the archived caches. It's about users like myself and others. If bogas finds are allowed on archived EC's where the CO is no longer a registered user and can not delete them as according to guidelines, this messes up the whole idea behind the EarthCache Masters program.

[+ArtieD]

No, really A&T. Myself and many others have worked very hard and done the requirements to become Platinum EarthCache Masters. I'm at Gold level now, and all I need is one more find in another State. It's not about you and the CO of the archived caches. It's about users like myself and others. If bogas finds are allowed on archived EC's where the CO is no longer a registered user and can not delete them as according to guidelines, this messes up the whole idea behind the EarthCache Masters program.

 

That is fine and all well and good. My point is that it's very presumptuous to assume that a cache log is bogus with no proof. I cache when I travel and I am hopelessly behind in my logging. I do tend to log my virts and EC's immediately so the answers are right and do not get lost, but the regulars do wait.

[+Touchstone]

Why is this allowed, and is there anything that can be done about it?

http://www.geocachin...d3-0b4128a9226e

 

Just my humble opinion, but I agree MPH. Regardless whether it as an "armchair" log or merely a "poke with a stick" at the cache owner, I feel this is in bad taste.

 

I've notified contact@geocaching.com that I feel that the cache owner's Listings should be Locked to prevent such apparent abuse of the system in the future. Feel free to do the same if you like.

[+Manville Possum]

Why is this allowed, and is there anything that can be done about it?

http://www.geocachin...d3-0b4128a9226e

 

Just my humble opinion, but I agree MPH. Regardless whether it as an "armchair" log or merely a "poke with a stick" at the cache owner, I feel this is in bad taste.

 

I've notified contact@geocaching.com that I feel that the cache owner's Listings should be Locked to prevent such apparent abuse of the system in the future. Feel free to do the same if you like.

I will do the same Touchstone. Forgive me, but I did not know that a cache could be locked to keep this from happining. But now that you made me think, are'nt TB Graveyard caches locked? This is far better the correct approach.

 

Thank you for your help.

Sorry to be a bother, but is there a link to contact@geocaching.com ? If so, please post it. I could not find it in the knowledge books. Thanks.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Manville Possum Hunters

[+Touchstone]

Sorry to be a bother, but is there a link to contact@geocaching.com ? If so, please post it. I could not find it in the knowledge books. Thanks.

 

Submitting a Request for Assistance

 

You can, of course, merely send an email using contact@geocaching.com in the address line. I think both methods will go to the same place.

 

And in case there's any doubt about such activities, here's a general statement from one of the Moderators in a related thread:

 

Finding and logging Archived Virtual caches

[+Manville Possum]

Sorry to be a bother, but is there a link to contact@geocaching.com ? If so, please post it. I could not find it in the knowledge books. Thanks.

 

Submitting a Request for Assistance

 

You can, of course, merely send an email using contact@geocaching.com in the address line. I think both methods will go to the same place.

 

And in case there's any doubt about such activities, here's a general statement from one of the Moderators in a related thread:

 

Finding and logging Archived Virtual caches

Thanks for the links, I did send an email to contact@geocaching.com and it seemed to go through. Thanks again.

[+joranda]

Well you missed this one. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=7430df8d-5b36-4761-b654-84ff345602c7 The first post has been changed that once read this looks a great place to visit sometime. Again like he has said elsewhere that it is not anything personal but most can read inbetween the line on what is happening here. I thought we was all smart enough to know that GS knows what was posted on the cache pages before we go back a change the logs. I wish they would go back and lock all of them. There has been enough child playing going on.

[+joranda]

On a side note, to show what he is doing, on November 15th when he visited CS earthcache in Kentucky, he also did virtual caches in Nebraska, Arkansas, Indiana, Oklahoma. That is alot of mileage on one day, but I guess you could have flown to them. Just a sign of armchair logging that as a cache owner you have the right to delete right? There are too many virtual logs armchair style from Nov 10th thru the 18th to go and list them al, 41 in total. Not to beat the dead horse but that is the stuff that CS had done, deleteing logs he thought was airchair, that helped getting him the "bad" name at GS which lead to getting banned.

[+Manville Possum]

Well you missed this one. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=7430df8d-5b36-4761-b654-84ff345602c7 The first post has been changed that once read this looks a great place to visit sometime. Again like he has said elsewhere that it is not anything personal but most can read inbetween the line on what is happening here. I thought we was all smart enough to know that GS knows what was posted on the cache pages before we go back a change the logs. I wish they would go back and lock all of them. There has been enough child playing going on.

I saw that one too, it was edited 5 days after the cache was arvhived, they should have just left the everything alone and not edited the post. That's what told on them. I got a email back from contact@geocaching.com they are checking into things. More users that enjoy EarthCaches need to appeal to Groundspeak to have those archived, well all archived EarthCaches locked to prevent future abuse of the system. Like geoaware says, there is one in every crowd. And this one user has compromised the integerty of EarthCaching and the EarthCache Masters program. I just don't think that GSA or Groundspeak will tolerate this type of abuse of the system.

[+Manville Possum]

On a side note, to show what he is doing, on November 15th when he visited CS earthcache in Kentucky, he also did virtual caches in Nebraska, Arkansas, Indiana, Oklahoma. That is alot of mileage on one day, but I guess you could have flown to them. Just a sign of armchair logging that as a cache owner you have the right to delete right? There are too many virtual logs armchair style from Nov 10th thru the 18th to go and list them al, 41 in total. Not to beat the dead horse but that is the stuff that CS had done, deleteing logs he thought was airchair, that helped getting him the "bad" name at GS which lead to getting banned.

Oh man! Talk about abuse of the system! Like A&T has said before, Cav Scout brought it on himself and got what he deserved (this I don't know). Looks like it came home to him.

A&T says that this thread is a pointless call-out post, but thats not correct. It's about abuse of the system that effects all of us.

[+joranda]

I sent GS a email and asked if they would lock all of the caches so that these games can stop. I am sure they will do the right thing for everyone here.

[+geoaware]

I would support the locking of all archived EarthCaches so people can't log them.

Edited December 27, 2010 by geoaware

[+ArtieD]

I can't even begin to tell you how nice and sweet it is that you're still talking about little ol' me. With all the effort put into it, one would almost equate all this to a subtle form of worship...but who am I to make such judgements? LOL

 

Well, it doesn't surprise me that Captain America's little brother chimed in, and it doesn't surprise me that he did some digging as well. What? You found virtuals that might have been armchair logged? For shame if I were to do such a thing! Oh, I forgot...even if I were, don't we all play the game differently?

 

However, I digress...we're not here to debate that, but the EarthCaches at hand. As I said before, I do a bit of traveling and I am quite a bit behind in my logging. When I do come by a virtual or EarthCache I log it right away so I don't forget my answers. So, we can argue this ad nauseam or move on with our lives because in the end, I was at those sites and you cannot prove I wasn't.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Arthur & Trillian

[+joranda]

No, really A&T. Myself and many others have worked very hard and done the requirements to become Platinum EarthCache Masters. I'm at Gold level now, and all I need is one more find in another State. It's not about you and the CO of the archived caches. It's about users like myself and others. If bogas finds are allowed on archived EC's where the CO is no longer a registered user and can not delete them as according to guidelines, this messes up the whole idea behind the EarthCache Masters program.

 

That is fine and all well and good. My point is that it's very presumptuous to assume that a cache log is bogus with no proof. I cache when I travel and I am hopelessly behind in my logging. I do tend to log my virts and EC's immediately so the answers are right and do not get lost, but the regulars do wait.

 

You can jump on me and call me Capt Americas little brother all you want. You was caught in your own little lie so live by it. You started off in the thread telling the OP that it was a legit EC find but I already knew of the EC find that was bogus then you logged the other. A quick check on dates and low and behold you was very busy logging armchair caches for several days. Remember you said that it was never personal but you can always read into it with the stuff you post.

[+joranda]

I would support the locking of all archived EarthCaches so people can't log them.

 

I hope you can help with that. I will help stop alot of the stuff that is happening. Even though it is archived the EC owners still get the emails when they are being logged. I sent a email to GS hoping to get them lockes.

[+ArtieD]

You can jump on me and call me Capt Americas little brother all you want. You was caught in your own little lie so live by it. You started off in the thread telling the OP that it was a legit EC find but I already knew of the EC find that was bogus then you logged the other. A quick check on dates and low and behold you was very busy logging armchair caches for several days. Remember you said that it was never personal but you can always read into it with the stuff you post.

 

Well, all I can say is that you are free to believe what you wish. You have a history of trying to screw with me so, taking that into account, please forgive me if I do not give credence to what you say.

 

Since you feel the need to keep making things personal, take it to PM as geoaware as suggested.

[+joranda]

Sorry but I have always believed to bring the truth into the open. You afe the king of PMs and emails that try and get people to say thing to you so you can call it a threat. Anything I have to say to you will be in the open cause I have nothing to hide. The only reason I came into the thread is to back up the thread author and the owner of the EC that you just had to log for spite, because it is never personal with you. It is just amazing to be alble to travel to all them states in one day. But why would you lie about anything that you put into words here?

[+ArtieD]

As I said, believe what you want. I do find it amusing that just because I logged a couple of a certain someone's EarthCaches you think it was out of spite. If it wasn't me logging them but someone else, would you call it spiteful as well?

[+Manville Possum]

I would support the locking of all archived EarthCaches so people can't log them.

This was my request to Groundspeak in the letter that I sent them requesting that all archived EarthCaches that the CO is no longer a registered user be archived to prevent any future abuse of the system, but I would support it to include ALL archived EarthCaches.

 

Thank you geoaware for your support in this issue.

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

I would support the locking of all archived EarthCaches so people can't log them.

 

That's just great! First you allow the archives to happen and now you want them locked. It never stops. You folks just want to punish all of us for your private disputes.WHY? Remember, there is an earthcaching community out here.

 

To those of you bickering over the archived caches......STOP! You are just giving an excuse for the locking of the ECs and that's what most of us thought was the planned next step!

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

What I request "locked" is this stupid thread. Nothing is accomplished by all the sniping except creating an excuse for locking all of the ECs therefore depriving everyone the pleasure of finding them. Doesn't anyone care about the feelings of the EC community at large?. It seems that contrary to what is said, no one out there is listening!

[+joranda]

Well the EC owner wants them locked so I hope it happens for him. He can't do it himself so GS needs to lend a hand here.

[Brad_W]

Generally we prefer not to lock cache pages. As someone has mentioned, some cachers are behind in their logging of legitimate finds. In other cases persons formerly a member of a team will create their own account and will add their own logs to caches found earlier as part of the team.

 

Locking a cache page is a measure reserved for cases where significant abuse is taking place. A couple of debatable logs is not good reason to inconvenience the broader geocaching community.

[+joranda]

Generally we prefer not to lock cache pages. As someone has mentioned, some cachers are behind in their logging of legitimate finds. In other cases persons formerly a member of a team will create their own account and will add their own logs to caches found earlier as part of the team.

 

Locking a cache page is a measure reserved for cases where significant abuse is taking place. A couple of debatable logs is not good reason to inconvenience the broader geocaching community.

 

But how can a banned ex-member maintain their caches? Are you saying that they can email you at GS anytime the ECs questions don't get answered to be able to have a bogus log find deleted? Why not just nip this on going problem in the butt and lock them? Who are we trying to punish here?

[Sandy]

Closing this thread. The discussion has derailed into the specifics of one case, which has been/can be further addressed privately.