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What is FTF for EarthCache?

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Last Sunday one geocacher visited my EarthCache, collected all informations, pictures etc., but sent that to me yesterday (Wednesday). Two days after his visit another geocacher visited this EarthCache (Monday) and sent to me correct answers just few hours after visit. So who can take FTF award? I think firs correct answer is most important for that, but what is you opinion?

 

Text edited by Groundspeak.

Edited by Sandy

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Why would the FTF game be important on an earthcache? How about, First to Answer the questions?

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FTF means "First to Find"

ECs are no different in that regard than other caches. We have had that situation many times, but in the final analysis, it's who visited the cache first. There are many , many reasons why some folks cannot log within minutes of the visit, but that doesn't make any difference, they were there first.

But, who's counting? :unsure:

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FTF means "First to Find"

ECs are no different in that regard than other caches. We have had that situation many times, but in the final analysis, it's who visited the cache first. There are many , many reasons why some folks cannot log within minutes of the visit, but that doesn't make any difference, they were there first.

 

the problem is, how do you know who was first? there's no log book. only way to know is by having the cachers send the date and time to the CO and the CO do the comparison. too easy to cheat on and impossible to verify, and if one of the first finders/seekers/doers/senders forgets to check the time or simply can't be bothered, then nobody will ever know.

 

my personal stance would be: there's nothing to find, so there's no FTF.

Edited by dfx

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FTF means "First to Find"

ECs are no different in that regard than other caches. We have had that situation many times, but in the final analysis, it's who visited the cache first.

 

In traditional geocaching is not enough just visit a cache site. You have to visit it, find a container and sign your nickname in a logbook - that makes your "find". Is not enough just spot the cache on the top of a tree, you have to climb up for it.

And similar about EarthCache - is not enough just visit a spot, you have to correctly answer to owner's questions. Sometimes people sending wrong answers.

There are 3 types of "positive" logs:

- found it

- attended

- webcam photo taken

For Earthcache is available log "found it", so it looks, you can "find it", and you can claim this type of log only AFTER sending correct questions.

 

Anyway, I'm still interesting about your opinions.

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Education is the primary goal of an Earthcache. Visiting AND satisfying the logging requirements constitutes a find. The first to satisfy both is the FTF imho, regardless of when the visit takes place.

Edited by Corfmania

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Last Sunday one geocacher visited my EarthCache, collected all informations, pictures etc., but sent that to me yesterday (Wednesday). Two days after his visit another geocacher visited this EarthCache (Monday) and sent to me correct answers just few hours after visit. So who can take FTF award? I think firs correct answer is most important for that, but what is you opinion?

 

[edited by Groundspeak]

I think that KK is right, but FTF is not something that I concern myself with, but many enjoy it as part of the game. On my last EC that was published 3 cachers found it and uploaded a picture of their GPS units, but they all posted seperate logs. I thought that was real nice.

Edited by Sandy

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This is a public forum. If you don't want to hear from people who use it, perhaps it would be a better idea to discuss this issue privately.

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This is a public forum. If you don't want to hear from people who use it, perhaps it would be a better idea to discuss this issue privately.

This is correct. Why would someone not want to hear from one of the most educated and helpful users that post in the EC forums? She is quite the expert on the subject of EarthCaches, and has helped many users out the forums before, and seems very willing to help users out any chance she gets. We are blessed to have such a wonderful and helpful source of information.

I personally would like to hear her opinion.

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I believe that the last person to find an EarthCache has had just a rich of an experience as the first to find it :)

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I have been awarded a first on various earthcaches but never claimed one. Then again I don't see any reason to use the three initials after I sign a blank log on a new cache. In any event the earth will be here for a long time (or at least 12-21-2010) and as geoaware points out the experience will be new for everyone who visits.

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This is a public forum. If you don't want to hear from people who use it, perhaps it would be a better idea to discuss this issue privately.

This is correct. Why would someone not want to hear from one of the most educated and helpful users that post in the EC forums? She is quite the expert on the subject of EarthCaches, and has helped many users out the forums before, and seems very willing to help users out any chance she gets. We are blessed to have such a wonderful and helpful source of information.

I personally would like to hear her opinion.

 

The question at hand has more to do with the claiming of First to Find rather than Earthcaches per se.

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I believe that the last person to find an EarthCache has had just a rich of an experience as the first to find it :)

 

I agree completely!

 

If people want to claim FTF, let them...no harm, no foul as far as I am concerned. I know that even if I am the 6,791st person to log an EC it'll still be just as cool. :)

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Why would someone not want to hear from one of the most educated and helpful users that post in the EC forums?

 

Because sometimes these "educated and helpful" persons post insulting comments like this:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=254659&st=0&p=4418010entry4418010

Posting private messages (what are for some reason sent as private, not public) on forum without author approval is also rude. "Educated and helpful" person will never demonstrate that behaviour, or will send just simple "sorry" after that (what I never heard after that accident). So I just kindly asked about no answers from this person, because I don't want read insulting comments any more.

But OK, I will use "ignoring" option and will be fine.

 

Please - go back to main thread, thanks.

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But OK, I will use "ignoring" option and will be fine.

 

i hear the "report" button can also be quite effective in those cases. some people like to use it quite extensively, so why shouldn't you?

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i hear the "report" button can also be quite effective in those cases. some people like to use it quite extensively, so why shouldn't you?

 

Maybe you are right, but is no point report that after a half of year. It would be much better just hear "sorry" and live in peace than sending reports to "mummy", isn't it?

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As usual, this thread has gone way, way off topic. First to find means just what it says unless Mr. Webster has changed the definition of the words. Now as to determining who was first to find, unless you want to recognize the cacher on your cache page, don't worry about it!

P.S. Yes, ECs can be found. Unless Geoaware et.al. have changed some of the guidelines, there is a set of coordinates for each EC and usually, you need to go there and answers some sort of questions to become "educated" or to some to "prove" you actually were there!

P.S. No. 2 In the words of Tiny Tim, " God bless us everyone" and from us, to all of our earthcaching friends, Merry Christmas! :)

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This is a public forum. If you don't want to hear from people who use it, perhaps it would be a better idea to discuss this issue privately.

OMG, I can't help it , but I once again have to agree with you! I know that pains both of us, but when you are right, you are right! Maybe next year we can get off to a better footing and no matter how many times I disagree with you, I always read what you say! :)

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First to find means just what it says unless Mr. Webster has changed the definition of the words. Now as to determining who was first to find, unless you want to recognize the cacher on your cache page, don't worry about it!

P.S. Yes, ECs can be found. Unless Geoaware et.al. have changed some of the guidelines, there is a set of coordinates for each EC and usually, you need to go there and answers some sort of questions to become "educated" or to some to "prove" you actually were there!

 

only that according to mr webster, accomplishing a task given to you does not appear in the definition of "to find". you can find the answer to a problem or a question, but an earthcache is not really just an answer to some question, or is it?

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Why would someone not want to hear from one of the most educated and helpful users that post in the EC forums?

 

Because sometimes these "educated and helpful" persons post insulting comments like this:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=254659&st=0&p=4418010entry4418010

Posting private messages (what are for some reason sent as private, not public) on forum without author approval is also rude. "Educated and helpful" person will never demonstrate that behaviour, or will send just simple "sorry" after that (what I never heard after that accident). So I just kindly asked about no answers from this person, because I don't want read insulting comments any more.

But OK, I will use "ignoring" option and will be fine.

 

Please - go back to main thread, thanks.

 

the insulting comments is the reason i use the "ignore" too, unfortunately you will see the posts quoted by others

 

what amazes me is that moderators choose to ignore/tolerate certain members behavior no matter how rude and insulting they are and no matter how many times you report the posts, meanwhile others get warnings and "vacations" for replying with a smiley :unsure:...but whatever

 

back on topic....to me with an Earthcache is hard to decide who's FTF especially if there's finds very close in time, some people don't have access to a computer to log right away, some log once every few days so in the absence of a logbook is hard to tell

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This is a public forum. If you don't want to hear from people who use it, perhaps it would be a better idea to discuss this issue privately.

OMG, I can't help it , but I once again have to agree with you! I know that pains both of us, but when you are right, you are right! Maybe next year we can get off to a better footing and no matter how many times I disagree with you, I always read what you say! :)

 

It doesn't pain me to agree or disagree with anybody on the forum. I don't keep score.

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Maybe you are right, but is no point report that after a half of year. It would be much better just hear "sorry" and live in peace than sending reports to "mummy", isn't it?

 

On what grounds would you report such a comment anyway? I didn't solicit the private message from you - in fact, it was quite unwelcome. The contents of the message were not of any private interest to me, but they were on-topic to the public discussion from which they stemmed.

 

If you're not interested in hearing from people who use the forum, then perhaps the forum isn't the appropriate place for your question. You can't pick and choose who responds to a public post. You seem to enjoy sending private messages, so why not just write directly to the people you do want to hear from? I find it surprising that after publicly declaring that you're not interested in hearing from me, you chose to contact me publicly. Psst... if you don't want to hear from somebody, ignore their comments and don't directly address them!

 

The forum moderators are pretty quick to crack down on things that are off-topic, excessively personal, or truly inflammatory. Some individuals choose to feel attacked when someone disagrees with them, but it's illogical to hold others responsible for those feelings.

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And for what it's worth, my opinion on the subject is this: "FTF" is an unsanctioned side game with no set rules. Determining who was "FTF" on an Earthcache will never be a matter of consensus, so if there's a conflict, it's up to the owner and the finders to decide how to handle it.

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Why would someone not want to hear from one of the most educated and helpful users that post in the EC forums?

 

Because sometimes these "educated and helpful" persons post insulting comments like this:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=254659&st=0&p=4418010entry4418010

Posting private messages (what are for some reason sent as private, not public) on forum without author approval is also rude. "Educated and helpful" person will never demonstrate that behaviour, or will send just simple "sorry" after that (what I never heard after that accident). So I just kindly asked about no answers from this person, because I don't want read insulting comments any more.

But OK, I will use "ignoring" option and will be fine.

 

Please - go back to main thread, thanks.

"what amazes me is that moderators choose to ignore/tolerate certain members behavior no matter how rude and insulting they are and no matter how many times you report the posts, meanwhile others get warnings and "vacations" for replying with a smiley ...but whatever"

 

This has been noted by many users, and I disagree with keeping a pet Troll. But I own a Rottweiler and two Pit Bulls, so who am I to be judgementle?

On my last EC listing 3 geocachers found the site at the same time and posted seperate logs, the first that posted noted that because the way that some EC CO's were that she would post first. I'm just happy to see that they would visit my listing. I don't think that FTF on EC's is an issue locally.

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I have "edited" the FTF meaning slightly when "awarding" FTF for my earthcaches. I state it as "First to Finish logging requirements." Thus, it clears up what might otherwise be a bit murky water (pardon the earthcaching pun). Thus, until I get the answers AND log (and before it was "outlawed" the attached picture), it is not a find. Once I get that stuff, there is a "find."

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I have "edited" the FTF meaning slightly when "awarding" FTF for my earthcaches. I state it as "First to Finish logging requirements." Thus, it clears up what might otherwise be a bit murky water (pardon the earthcaching pun). Thus, until I get the answers AND log (and before it was "outlawed" the attached picture), it is not a find. Once I get that stuff, there is a "find."

 

do you consider sending you the answers as part of the logging requirements? in other words, whoever gets back to the PC first (or has a smartphone et al) "wins" the FTF?

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I have "edited" the FTF meaning slightly when "awarding" FTF for my earthcaches. I state it as "First to Finish logging requirements." Thus, it clears up what might otherwise be a bit murky water (pardon the earthcaching pun). Thus, until I get the answers AND log (and before it was "outlawed" the attached picture), it is not a find. Once I get that stuff, there is a "find."

 

do you consider sending you the answers as part of the logging requirements? in other words, whoever gets back to the PC first (or has a smartphone et al) "wins" the FTF?

Users such as this CO have taken the fun out of EarthCaches with their self-entitlement for users such as myself. I don't care how many EC's that they have developed and like to publicly flaunt the fact. Thet make up their own rules and expect us to abide by them. I fail to see anything fun or educational about EC's that the user makes not interesting because of their logging requirements. They are far too many CO's like this that have ruined EarthCaching with their ALR's and made up rules that are not in the EC guidelines.

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Wow, wasn't expecting that level of angst...not sure what ALRs are, but hey.

Users such as this CO have taken the fun out of EarthCaches with their self-entitlement for users such as myself. I don't care how many EC's that they have developed and like to publicly flaunt the fact. Thet make up their own rules and expect us to abide by them. I fail to see anything fun or educational about EC's that the user makes not interesting because of their logging requirements. They are far too many CO's like this that have ruined EarthCaching with their ALR's and made up rules that are not in the EC guidelines.

 

How else would you figure an "FTF" for earthcaching? Otherwise it seems you're trying to figure out what time someone SAYS they were there....I really don't care who is FTF, but have simply tried to allow a "winner" of that title for THEIR SAKE. If there is a better way to do it, I'd love to know.

 

I thought I was allowed to express my view on a forum??!

 

Not sure where all the angst is coming from....

Edited by PathfinderMark

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Wow, wasn't expecting that level of angst...not sure what ALRs are, but hey.

Users such as this CO have taken the fun out of EarthCaches with their self-entitlement for users such as myself. I don't care how many EC's that they have developed and like to publicly flaunt the fact. Thet make up their own rules and expect us to abide by them. I fail to see anything fun or educational about EC's that the user makes not interesting because of their logging requirements. They are far too many CO's like this that have ruined EarthCaching with their ALR's and made up rules that are not in the EC guidelines.

 

How else would you figure an "FTF" for earthcaching? Otherwise it seems you're trying to figure out what time someone SAYS they were there....I really don't care who is FTF, but have simply tried to allow a "winner" of that title for THEIR SAKE. If there is a better way to do it, I'd love to know.

 

Not sure where all the angst is coming from....

 

i am going to take a wild guess and say that it comes from the fact that FTF is not officially recognized by GC and many people have a really, and i mean really strong, dislike towards those that like to "play" the FTF game

they will go out of their way and take it quite far just to get back at the FTF hounds, as they like to refer to them, which in my view is very immature behavior

 

 

 

I thought I was allowed to express my view on a forum??!

 

 

well, it all depends on who you are :anitongue:

Edited by t4e

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I thought I was allowed to express my view on a forum??!

 

You are. So is everybody else.

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Wow, wasn't expecting that level of angst...not sure what ALRs are, but hey.

Users such as this CO have taken the fun out of EarthCaches with their self-entitlement for users such as myself. I don't care how many EC's that they have developed and like to publicly flaunt the fact. Thet make up their own rules and expect us to abide by them. I fail to see anything fun or educational about EC's that the user makes not interesting because of their logging requirements. They are far too many CO's like this that have ruined EarthCaching with their ALR's and made up rules that are not in the EC guidelines.

 

How else would you figure an "FTF" for earthcaching? Otherwise it seems you're trying to figure out what time someone SAYS they were there....I really don't care who is FTF, but have simply tried to allow a "winner" of that title for THEIR SAKE. If there is a better way to do it, I'd love to know.

 

Not sure where all the angst is coming from....

 

i am going to take a wild guess and say that it comes from the fact that FTF is not officially recognized by GC and many people have a really, and i mean really strong, dislike towards those that like to "play" the FTF game

they will go out of their way and take it quite far just to get back at the FTF hounds, as they like to refer to them, which in my view is very immature behavior

 

 

 

I thought I was allowed to express my view on a forum??!

 

 

well, it all depends on who you are :anitongue:

That is so true about depending on who you are. Some users are allowed to insult whoever they please, but fire off back at them and they hit the report button. Dad always told me not to start something that I could not finish, and take what I had coming if I did.

Now PathfinderMark, I find it hard to belive that someone who is able to develope 74 nice EC's does not know what ALR is. One example is the so called "outlawed" photos as you discribe. I have had logs deleted by CO's because they could not "clearly see my face in the photo, and some CO's would not accept a photo of a hand holding a GPS unit with the EC in the background. Many geocachers have privacy issues, and EarthCaching solo, well it's hard to take a good self photo. Now if you visited a site and tryed to meet the CO's logging requirements, just to have your log deleted because the CO did not like the photo that you took the time to upload, how would you feel? You can just never tell about EC CO's anymore, many are disgruntled because of the new guidelines on the ALR, or "outlawed" photos as you call them.

BTW: What kind of prize do you award the winner for being FTF?

Edited by Manville Possum Hunters

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OK folks, let's go back to the drawing board and while we are at it, back to the original topic.

If someone follows the given set of coordinates for an EC and happens to arrive at said coordinates first, guess who is First To Find?

A. The second person to find the EC

B. The last person the find the EC

C. Your in laws, assuming they geocache

D. None of the above

 

Answer: D. First means first, not second, not first to do something else, not first to stand on their head and spit wooden nickels, just first to get there or in the vernacular, First To Find!

 

It shouldn't matter to the cache owner unless he/she gives out a FTF prize or puts the FTFer's name up in lights on the cache page. Let God and the disagreeing cachers figure it out!

P.S. For you secularists, skip the God part and just offer weapons to the cachers to use them at dawn! ;)

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First means first, not second, not first to do something else, not first to stand on their head and spit wooden nickels, just first to get there or in the vernacular, First To Find!

 

but "first to get there" doesn't equal "first to find". otherwise i wouldn't even have to search for a real geocache in order to claim FTF, i could just go there and then turn around and head home.

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IMHO, the FTF is the first to fulfill the requirements to log the cache. That would be the first to supply the required information to the CO.

Examples: I was second to find a cache, but first to log on-line. I was not FTF. (I relogged after the FTF.)

Markwell's Photographers Cache. Changing objective. First to post a photo of the listed object got to choose the next object to be photographed. I was there first, but could not upload the photo until the next day. I failed to fulfill the requirement. Made me second. (In case anyone cares, it was: "Big Cat that was once in Macy's Parade, Jersey City, NJ")

Firt to fulfill the requirements is FTF.

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Closing topic. The original question seems to have been addressed, and wanting to avoid additional animosity between users.

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