ANNOUNCING THE 1ST ANNUAL TRAVELBUG CANNONBALL RUN!

6.5k · April 16, 2003

Rule Changes

I propose that rather than trying to create and enforce a bunch of rules about who can touch what, when/where, and for how long, the rules are simplified to pretty much "anything goes". The only rule would be you cannot destroy any racer.

To keep one team/person from putting all (but their own) the racers out. The cannonball be made "blind", by that I mean no-one knows whos entry is whos. Im not sure the best way to do this. So far im thinking that those wishing to enter the race can pay a Small fee to whoever is organizing/sponsoring the race. This would help pay for some sort of ID/info/goal card or tag. And to help setup/maintain an tracking&stats website for the race. The sponsor would then make up these ID cards and number them. And secrectly, known only to themself (they are of course DQed from partipating in the race ) assign each 'racer' entrant a number. But he/she does not tell anyone, even those that have entered the race, whos is whos.

Then these numbered ID/info cards are used in the race. And only after the winner has made it to the finish line (or maybe this should be after the top three have made it to the finish line), is the 'owner' of the winning entry released. I realize this eliminates the need for all the different cars, trains, planes etc etc that are traveling to CA, but this is how I would like to see the race done in the future.

If people still want to "make up" a racer, maybe they could submit it, and it will be sent to the finish line. That way when the winner does reach the end, its ID tag can be attached to the racer it was taking the place of. Sounds kinda dumb racing identical Goal cards, I know, but it would elimnate ransoms and knock-offs etc.

And btw- I like the idea of alternating start/finish or maybe even checkpoints.

April 16, 2003

I think we need to wait until the race is over to decide what the rule could be. There is a lot of race left. Lets let more cachers play. Here are some interesting figures.

Akhenaten 1

ambeer 1

brogan 1

coonass 1

dustoff21 10

fishensmit 1

gobucks 4

HFJohn 1

ihs.hiking 2

In Play 33

J. Camper 1

kneal44 2

LLLL 1

Microbe2 1

prettyvacantone 1

Roadkill 2

scubadive 2

Shelly Team 1

Sherwood Forest 1

soccercoach 2

strikeforce1 4

Don't step in that!!!!!

9.4k · April 16, 2003

What do those figures represent?

April 17, 2003

Distribution of bugs. In play are in caches, others are who holds how many.

Don't step in that!!!!!

1.4k · April 17, 2003

Those numbers kind of touch on the issue I was talking about.

In a 'response' to an email inquiry I sent to the holder of my racer about when they thought they would be able to put my bug back on the road, I was told "a few weeks" from now. That's after two weeks in their posession. I won't come out and say who it is, but according to these numbers... they are holding on to 9 other bugs as well. This is what I was talking about... it's seems less like 'good natured interference' and more like its being held for a long time intentionally and knowingly.

I don't mind interference. I actually would /prefer/ my racer go to china than sit in some person's house for 5 or 6 weeks. But hoarding bugs and holding them is not a Good Thing whether they be racers or not.

This situation is what inspired my original comments. I was trying not to single anyone out, but I do believe that this kind of things requires some thought for next time around.

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

Saving geocaches - one golf ball at a time.

6.5k · April 17, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by ict X ckr:
Distribution of bugs. In play are in caches, others are who holds how many.

Other than Dustoff, Im not sure whats so interesting?? If someone in an area picks up TBs they will probly pick up any in a given area at one time IMO, especially if they have common goal(s).

9.1k · April 17, 2003

I think the whole point of listing the bugs being held was to illustrate how Dustoff stands out like a sore thumb. All of the others are excusable... even if someone's been holding onto one or two bugs for three weeks, that is not nearly the same as driving all the way to Ohio, grabbing a bug that had made forward progress, and moving it backwards to a remote military base in the Adirondacks and then not even releasing it into another cache.

Kidnapping and waylaying one or two bugs is funny. I myself diverted the Pace Car to a remote cache, because I wasn't hurting a "real" race participant, and I only held onto the bug for ONE DAY. ClayJar moved Oscar's Express backwards from Louisiana to north Georgia, which I found to be hysterically funny. Likewise, unintentional diversion or delay of bugs by someone who doesn't understand the race goal will also happen, as is the case for ANY bug with a specific goal.

Intentionally waylaying ten racing bugs and then sitting on them for weeks is not funny, it's mean-spirited. While I do not have a bug in the race, I will do what I can to help along any of the victimized bugs as they pass through my caching territory, and I will follow the "Reverse Golden Rule" if I ever come across a bug owned by Dustoff: Do unto others as they have done unto you.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

.sdrawkcab dootsrednu tub sdrawrof devil si efiL

6.5k · April 17, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by The Leprechauns:
I think the whole point of listing the bugs being held was to illustrate how Dustoff stands out like a sore thumb. All of the others are excusable... even if someone's been holding onto one or two bugs for three weeks, that is not nearly the same as driving all the way to Ohio, grabbing a bug that had made forward progress, and moving it backwards to a remote military base in the Adirondacks and then not even releasing it into another cache.

I guess that one went right over

1k · April 17, 2003

Well, I have been running some stats on our friend Dustoff21, and this is what I have found:

Handled 23 of the 73 bugs entered in the race
Moved 9 of them backwards (8 of those for more than 150 miles)
Moved 6 bugs forward 50 to 70 miles
Moved 1 bug forward 158 miles
Moved 1 bug forward 525 miles!
Holds onto the bugs an average of 6 days
Held on to 5 of the bugs for more than 2 weeks (max time 19 days)
Currently holding 9 bugs (7 for 5 days now, 1 for 18 days, and 1 for 19 days)
Has handled 4 bugs more than once

We may not like what he's doing, but he is playing by the rules. And with the exception of two of the bugs, he doesn't seem to be holding on to them for long periods of time either. Since he does not have a bug entered in the race, there's not really much we can do about enforcing the rules - no matter what rules are decided upon.

-Junglehair

There are 10 kinds of people in this world - those who understand binary and those who don't.

9.1k · April 17, 2003

Interesting stats, Junglehair!

quote:
there's not really much we can do about enforcing the rules

Don't make assumptions.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

.sdrawkcab dootsrednu tub sdrawrof devil si efiL

April 17, 2003

Strikeforce1 arrested another tb today. I have arrested a running total of 11 as of tonight, I presently have five in hand. Now that the weather has broken, I plan another express trip westward, this comming week. I apoligize for holding on to ScreamingGoGo and RenoRum for so long. It was not due to my control as much as the weather. Therefor, they will be placed in my scheduled 2nd last stop westward - at least into mid Ohio. Strikeforce1 - out and about.

April 18, 2003

I will be attendeding the Watertown Event tomorrow, Dustoff 21 has posted his intentions of being there also... Maybe a little gentle persuasion will get the bugs back on the road....no promises which direction they will head though!

April 18, 2003

Maybe I owe all of you an apology. I have been posting some stats that have interested me. I did so to show how we play. Which is part of the game too. When my bug gets shanghaied, sure, I get miffed but know it is all part of the game. When others plot revenge, I laugh and do some plotting myself. As far as I can tell everyone is playing by the rules and having a good time. Which is why we are all doing this, right? It is easy to be critical of all you easterners, we don't have your weather nor have we had your opportunities. That is why I said lets wait till the race is over to decide what rules we need. I do have some definite views about the play, but until the race is over we won't know which are reasonable and fair. While I think holding a lot of bugs is limiting play by others it is playing fair. Maybe I am just jealous of the time some of you can spend on the play of the game. I hope all of you continue to play the way you feel is right. I would just like to see all the racers finish before the next race starts. Winning isn’t that big of a deal, finishing is the reward. So, if what I have done has embarrassed you I apologize.

Except for you dustoff21.

Don't step in that!!!!!

9.4k · April 18, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by strikeforce1:
Strikeforce1 arrested another tb today. I have arrested a running total of 11 as of tonight, I presently have five in hand. Now that the weather has broken, I plan another express trip westward, this comming week. I apoligize for holding on to ScreamingGoGo and RenoRum for so long. It was not due to my control as much as the weather. Therefor, they will be placed in my scheduled 2nd last stop westward - at least into mid Ohio. Strikeforce1 - out and about.

Maybe you can arrest my bug...it's 60 miles NE of the race starting point! At this point, I wouldn't mind some 'interference'

April 18, 2003

Hi all. I'm a geo-caching newbie and I've been watching the cannonball run for the last week. I wish I could of entered a travel bug!

Anyway, I'm in mid-Missouri and keep waiting for the cannonball tb racers to make it closer to me. I'm actually thinking about making a trip to St. Louis to get Herbie, but I don't know. I have several trips planned within the next few months which I could move a few tb's along. At the rate they are going, I'm not sure many of them will get here in time! Oh well. Anyway, if anyone would like help through Missouri or even a little interference I'm listening (mb a donation to my paypal account! j/k!)

April 18, 2003

Team GPSax said;

Maybe you can arrest my bug...it's 60 miles NE of the race starting point! At this point, I wouldn't mind some 'interference'

________________________________________________

Which one is yours? I must be fairly near to it and I will be goin thru PA. next weekend.

April 18, 2003

Wheelygood,

Touralis is the bug in question, currently located in the Maple Grove Cache in MapleWood Park.

April 18, 2003

Thank you, strikeforce! We appreciate the info and glad to hear that good ole SG will be gogoin' down the highway soon! It must have been quite trying listening to the constant screaming!! I keep trying to tell him that patience is a virtue - one of these days......

I'm sure the rumrunner kept him happy with refreshments, though, so maybe the scream was more like a low hum???? That song about the bottles of beer on the wall gets old after a while doesn't it?

Here's to great weather!!

April 18, 2003

My Viper is 60 miles East of the start since the day the race started as well. I'm hoping to get back to the Start Point by the time the winner gets to California.

"Gimpy"

--KC2KNI--

9.4k · April 18, 2003

Yeah, I hope Touralis at least makes it out of New York by the time the first racer finishes.

1k · April 18, 2003

I hope I at least hear back from the cacher that has been holding Captain America for the past month by the time the first racer finishes.

-Junglehair

There are 10 kinds of people in this world - those who understand binary and those who don't.

1k · April 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Gimpy:
My Viper is 60 miles East of the start since the day the race started as well. I'm hoping to get back to the Start Point by the time the winner gets to California.

Well, it's Saturday, a good caching day. I'm hoping Magic School Bus gets placed in a cache. I'm sure the weather up there has something to do with it, but this thing started over 6 weeks ago. I think a sloth could travel more quickly than this.

C'mon Ms. Frizzle!!

Webfoot

Tromping through the underbrush looking for Ammo cans, Tupperware containers, & little round disks.

April 19, 2003

This being a LONG weekend for MANY people....I hope that lots of bugs get moved...those in caches get picked up, and those that are being held get dropped offed....

it would be nice if we had at least 50% being moved this weekend.

I am goign to check out a spot for a possible 4/4 or 5/5....some may not feel that the spot isn't anything above a 3/3...but with the unknown sinkholes in the region it's not a trek for Kids running loose...

There is nothing like a Packrat who is a geocacher.

1k · April 19, 2003

Oh dear, it looks like Oscar's Express has moved way ahead again - he's in Arizona already - just one more state line to cross!!!

-Junglehair

There are 10 kinds of people in this world - those who understand binary and those who don't.

April 20, 2003

Team GPSaxophone, - surely if I get the chance, rest assured, I will ARREST your tb as well. We may even have some Rum that RenoRumRunner has been share -ing with the rest of the tb's while waiting to move onward. I must insist that the tb's will not drink while The CannonBall Express Transporter is moving, even though I am a designated driver. Happy Caching

April 20, 2003

First, I don't have a bug in the race and I am just observing the race. Here is one idea for a future race. Since it appears that there is a quasi probability distribution with bug travel that includes outliers (a few bugs very fast, a few bugs very slow), the race isn't too exciting since the probable winner has been narrowed done to just a couple bugs.

Start all bugs in a cache in the middle of the country (maybe St. Louis and/or Chicago and/or Dallas). (sidenote I like the idea of multiple start points).

Racers would either be on Team West or Team East. Team West would win 5 bugs got to a cache in Seattle and 5 other bugs got to a cache in San Diego (or LA). Team East would win when 5 bugs got to a cache in Florida and 5 bugs got to a cache in Maine (or MA). The concept being to race to the corners of the US.

One advantage would be more cachers involved. The rule about 'one state at a time' may have to be rethought since the East has those funny little states and the West has normal sized states.

I do realize that this doesn't hold true to the Cannonball movie. I saw the movie as a teenager and can still remember where the Lambourghni driver kept her driver's license, but I do think the Cannonball spirit of cross-country racing can be kept even if the race has teams and only crosses half the country.

April 20, 2003

What a neat idea, glenn. You can adjust for the one state at a time rule a bit by moving the starting point eastward a state or few if necessary, but on the other hand there are hops that don't even cross state lines. Or, you could have teams North and South instead.

New England still has tiny states, but if you're heading to Maine the lengths of PA, NY, MA and ME are reasonable.

Not that this should prevent another NY-anchored race either.

April 20, 2003

The half-country separate races would be interesting, but it would make the most sense for each team to have a bug in each leg, that way, they all face the same geography, etc.

However, that would certainly take away the theme of the Cannonball run, which I thought was supposed to be across country.

So maybe, you could still keep the canonball run route but add a few others. Maybe one bug has to make it to Miami and another has to get to Seattle. The team with the combined quickest race to each of the destinations wins.

Adding points, though, will certainly slow the race down and simply drag out the results even further.

2.6k · April 21, 2003

The race isn't decided yet.

How many who have bugs stuck back east have spent any time getting ahold of people and trying to convice them to move your bug?

I've been busy trying to get Oscar side tracked. As he gets closer to the finish I have more people who can help me out. There is also a bigger chance that someone just may grab the bug and take him all the way to the finish. So I'm busy emailing people.

george

Wanna go for a ride?

April 21, 2003

Since I'm the one that moved Dreamweaver and Captain America to their stall points in York, PA. I took the liberty of emailing both parties and politely asked when they thought they might get placed....The next day, Dreamweaver got placed in WV...

I havent heard from Captain America though...

Sorry, Junglehair...

Art

www.yankeetoys.org

www.BudBuilt.com

http://www.ttora-ne.mainpage.net/

2k · April 21, 2003

I like the idea of different starting points. How about this as an idea.

Just look at all the states on the East coast. Keep the same finishing point as Cali pretty much covers the whole West coast. (No offense Washingon State) :-)

But think of if say the 75 bugs or so that started this race could have been spread out starting in different Atlantic coast states.

That way, many more states and cachers could get involved.

Just an idea.

Get your trackable USA geocoins at http://www.usageocoins.com

April 21, 2003

Dustoff21 took my travel bug from Ohio and said he needed it back east again. He never responded to my emails. Since the lead Bug is in AZ there is no real reason to hold on to a bug unless he is colloecting them, which goes against what travel bugs are for.

1k · April 21, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Cracker7M:
Since I'm the one that moved Dreamweaver and Captain America to their stall points in York, PA. I took the liberty of emailing both parties and politely asked when they thought they might get placed....The next day, Dreamweaver got placed in WV...

I havent heard from Captain America though...

Sorry, Junglehair...

Art

http://www.yankeetoys.org

http://www.BudBuilt.com

http://www.ttora-ne.mainpage.net/

I have tried emailing him a few times myself, but have not heard back from him yet I've checked his caching activity, and while he did do a few more caches after picking up Captain America, he hasn't been out since the end of March.

pjh: I was checking some stats on Dustoff21 a while back, and he doesn't seem to be holding on to bugs for too long (with a couple exceptions), he just seems to like to move them to remote parts of northern NY.

I am going to a geocaching event this weekend in Auburn, NY. If any northern NYers want to help these bugs out by collecting them and bringing them to the event, I could at least get them moved back to Rochester (close to the starting point). Disqualifying my own travelbug seems to be a moot point now.

-Junglehair

There are 10 kinds of people in this world - those who understand binary and those who don't.

April 21, 2003

Seems that most of the bugs that Dustoff 21 had were released from local Watertown Caches this last weekend. Now all they need to do is make up for lost time.

I also will be in attendance at the Auburn event this coming weekend, no need for junglehair to DQ herself, I and several other cachers are more than willing to give assistance in getting these bugs moving again.

On a entirely different note... has anyone attempted to delay/misdirect the leaders, and are you willing to admit it? Let me know....

April 21, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Brogan:
Seems that most of the bugs that Dustoff 21 had were released from local Watertown Caches this last weekend. Now all they need to do is make up for lost time.

I also will be in attendance at the Auburn event this coming weekend, no need for junglehair to DQ herself, I and several other cachers are more than willing to give assistance in getting these bugs moving again.

On a entirely different note... has anyone attempted to delay/misdirect the leaders, and are you willing to admit it? Let me know....

Gotta keep things interesting.

GoBucks

6.5k · April 21, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Brogan:
On a entirely different note... has anyone attempted to delay/misdirect the leaders, and are you willing to admit it? Let me know....

I've been considering things to do should a racer come 'close enough'. But, A. NONE have come near enough, and B. I can't touch them, so that foils some of my ideas .

To answer your question, No I haven't been able to misdirect anyone....

April 21, 2003

Dustoff21 has had my bug since the 12th and has not replanted. I hope he will let it go soon.

April 21, 2003

he still has mine as well. I guess first in last out.

[This message was edited by -trippy1976- on April 21, 2003 at 10:39 PM.]

April 22, 2003

I almost escaped.....

Don't step in that!!!!!

April 23, 2003

I believe this would be within the rules although it might anger some folk..... When a bug in need of delay is in a cache, but you can't touch it. Make some "NO TRESPASSING" signs for the cache area for temporary posting. The cache owner may get upset, but it may keep the bug there for a while.

I have not done this yet, but I'm here in CA waiting.

Here's a question...

I live near the end point and have caches of my own near there. If a competing bug lands in one of my caches would it be "legal" to make it "temporarily unavailable" for "maintenance" reasons????

Enthusiasm may vary.

9.1k · April 23, 2003

MrToad,

I am all in favor of "creative" ways to divert a racing bug, so long as they are ethical and not mean-spirited. One easy way around the rule that a contestant can't handle another racing bug is to enlist the help of a friend to do the interference for you. A simple backwards movement of a bug by your friend, or holding onto it for a week or so, would be in the spirit of the game, IMHO. Moving TWENTY bugs backwards, and/or holding onto them for three weeks or more, goes beyond that boundary, again IMHO, even if technically allowed under the race rules. Pick a boundary with which you're personally comfortable.

I do not like the idea of posting fake "no trespassing" signs. This is likely to alarm geocachers. I would not likely hunt a cache that's obviously on private or restricted property unless I receive assurances from the cache owner, preferably on the cache page. Since the signs are false and misleading, I consider this unethical as it would prohibit my finding a cache that was legally placed. And, as you noted, if I were the owner of that cache, I'd be hopping mad.

More importantly, fake trespassing signs are likely to attract the attention of the land owner or land manager, and increase the likelihood of the geocache being discovered (if placed without permission) or having permission revoked because of the posting of the signs.

Have fun with the race, Mr. Toad! I think things will get plenty interesting as bugs approach the finish line.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

.sdrawkcab dootsrednu tub sdrawrof devil si efiL

1k · April 23, 2003

I kind of like the "temporarily unavailable" idea for your cache if one of the travel bugs happens to land there. It's a devilish plan - and in the spirit of the Cannonball Run. I agree with Leprechaun that the no trespassing signs would cause more trouble than it's worth.

-Junglehair

There are 10 kinds of people in this world - those who understand binary and those who don't.

9.4k · April 24, 2003

Cannonball Racer Touralis is missing. Strikeforce1 went to arrest him and found no sign of the bug in the cache or logbook. Wheelygood was planning on picking it up tomorrow and moving it to Pennsylvania for me. (Thanks for trying, guys)

If you have him or have seen him, please leave me an email.

April 24, 2003

team laughing gravy would like to note - or perhaps it's already been noted - about Oscar's Express mileage... - with the 400+ mile NE 'trip to Georgia' that was posted - and mileage credited? and subsequent trip West - would those miles be credited towards a 'most mileage' award? and what about the rule about random checking with cache owners about physical logs in caches? - just curious about thoughts from other cachers at the forum....

9.1k · April 25, 2003

Yes, I agree, a full investigation of ClayJar's actions in moving the Oscar travel bug is called for here. I'm sure that, when he is not improving his "Watcher" software for us, or helping people with geocaching questions in the IRC #geocache channel he set up, or pondering his next great contribution like the geocache rating system, ClayJar has nothing better to do than to fake travel bug movements.

[/sarcasm]

Many of us know the details of ClayJar's recent vacation, consisting of a trip to Georgia followed by a journey out west. Find another tree to bark up.

All that being said, CURSES, ClayJar, for putting that bug so far in the lead!!!

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to chew through the leather straps. - Emo Phillips

1.1k · April 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by LaughingGravy:
team laughing gravy would like to note - or perhaps it's already been noted - about Oscar's Express mileage... - with the 400+ mile NE 'trip to Georgia' that was posted - and mileage credited? and subsequent trip West - would those miles be credited towards a 'most mileage' award? and what about the rule about random checking with cache owners about physical logs in caches? - just curious about thoughts from other cachers at the forum....

ClayJar should be banned from using ammo boxes or closely monitored to make sure he always "trades up."

April 25, 2003

Well Dustoff21 finally placed my Heavy Duty racer. He took it from Ohio and moved it back 350 miles East into a remote New York location. This new location on gets visited about once a month. It is actually east of the starting point. It is GCE593 Ampersand View. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=24211

I went from 19th place to 70th of 75. So if anyone lives in that area maybe you can move it back to a more active cache. His next goal is Indiana.

PJH

April 25, 2003

That brings up a question I had about the race. This bug went from NY-PA-OH-NY. So, can its next state visited be Indiana (adjacent to Ohio) or does it have to first re-visit a state adjacent to New York (its current state).

The example that I thought of was if I had one in KY and took it to OH and then IN, would it be able to visit MO (adjacent to KY) or would it first have to visit a state that is adjacent to IN (like Illinois) before being able to move to Missouri?

9.4k · April 25, 2003

It would need to return to OH in order to advance.

Also, too bad ClayJar didn't drop off Oscar in New Mexico. It seems he just blew by here without a second thought.

April 25, 2003

The racer can go directly from NY to IN since it has already meet the requirements of a cache stop in PA and OH.

ANNOUNCING THE 1ST ANNUAL TRAVELBUG CANNONBALL RUN!

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