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One of our more interesting encounters with a "leo".


baloo&bd
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See the log on 18Dec at GC25ZZW .

 

Anyone else been stopped by a "US Marshal" this far from a border?

 

Border? Marshals have nothing to do with borders. According to their website, they "apprehend federal fugitives, protect the federal judiciary, operate the Witness Security Program, transport federal prisoners and seize property acquired by criminals through illegal activities."

 

You're right, though in that they wouldn't be involved in a burglary investigation. I think you should report this encounter to the US Marshals service, since it sounds like you met someone who was impersonating one of their officers.

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To all reading: please do not take this person's example as one to adopt when encountering law enforcement officers (leo) Stepping out of a vehicle during a traffic stop is very ill advised because the police use this as a safety buffer and keeps the driver from possibly opening a door or stepping into oncoming traffic. In this case a trained LEO would use the buffer area to determine any threats from a safe distance and angle. He would also order you to stay in the vehicle until he has made contact with you under his terms. If you do not comply with this order, as the OP said he would in his log, expect to handcuffed or at worst have a gun drawn on you and end up proned out in the dirt. Second to domestic violence calls, traffic stops are where most assaults on officers occur. LEOs know this and treat them as such. /soap box

 

Now I will wait for the criticism. :drama:

Edited by Charlie Fingers
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To all reading: please do not take this person's example as one to adopt when encountering law enforcement officers (leo) Stepping out of a vehicle during a traffic stop is very ill advised because the police use this as a safety buffer and keeps the driver from possibly opening a door or stepping into oncoming traffic. In this case a trained LEO would use the buffer area to determine any threats from a safe distance and angle. He would also order you to stay in the vehicle until he has made contact with you under his terms. If you do not comply with this order, as the OP said he would in his log, expect to handcuffed or at worst have a gun drawn on you and end up proned out in the dirt. Second to domestic violence calls, traffic stops are where most assaults on officers occur. LEOs know this and treat them as such. /soap box

 

Now I will wait for the criticism. :drama:

My thoughts exactly! I don't know what issues the OP has with law enforcement but that's some seriously bad advice. A macho "I know my rights and don't care what the officer says" attitude will likely turn out badly.

 

As a Case Monitor for our Department of Youth Services I rode with the cops regularly. Obey their order to stay in your car. Hopping out of your car and walking back to the officer is almost guaranteed, especially at night, to end in a take-down to secure you before they ask questions... and if they view you as uncooperative they get curious and ask a lot more questions!

 

I get 'checked out' while caching quite often, mostly because I like to urban cache at night. Cooperate, give them your ID, let them run it, then explain the game and if there is still any concern on their part show them the cache.

 

Never had a problem, and most turn out to be pleasant experiences with officers doing the job we pay them to do.

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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"Having a long standing rule of not letting leos approach my vehicle until invited, I hoped out and went around back of our vehicle to meet the driver, who asked what we were doing."

 

WOW, great way to end up eating asphalt. With that attitude, it is a miracle you haven't gotten shot yet. That aggressive behavior usually is a red flag that you have something to hide and aggression toward leo's usually doesn't end well. Glad you are undamaged, if you wish to remain that way, maybe might want to rethink your ideals about who approaches your car on what terms.

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"Having a long standing rule of not letting leos approach my vehicle until invited, I hoped out and went around back of our vehicle to meet the driver, who asked what we were doing."

 

WOW, great way to end up eating asphalt. With that attitude, it is a miracle you haven't gotten shot yet. That aggressive behavior usually is a red flag that you have something to hide and aggression toward leo's usually doesn't end well. Glad you are undamaged, if you wish to remain that way, maybe might want to rethink your ideals about who approaches your car on what terms.

 

I think I understand what he is saying. I don't get out of the car, just because I don't care and am lazy. But my brother, who is a cop, says that he never asks a driver to get out but if one does and is not agressive, he appreciateds that he can see that he doesn't have a weapon before having to find out the hard way from a rolled down window.

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a few words of advice from one ole cop to his caching peers:

 

When the blue lights come on, pull over as soon as you safely are able to do so. Shut your car off, turn your 4 way flashers on, turn on your dome light and keep your hands in view. If you need to reach in your glovebox/backpack/etc for something, explain what you are doing before hand.

 

When a law enforcement officer stops you, do not exit your vehicle until/unless asked. By doing so, you place yourself outside the LEOs comfort zone, and indicate that there may be something in the car you don't want him to see. It's a typical distraction technique utilized by drunks and potheads. You also put the officer in a position where he will need to focus more on your safety, wondering why the fidiot he stopped insists on standing next to a busy highway. Overall, it's generally a bad idea.

 

If someone attempts to identify themselves as a LEO, and they are not in a marked patrol car, and/or in uniform, ask them for their ID. If they hesitate, at all, grab your cell phone and dial 911. There is not a cop on the planet that would try enforcing the law without being willing to identify himself.

 

If you are engaged in a benign activity such as geocaching, be entirely honest with what you are doing. Most cops have pretty accurate BS meters which, when activated, tend to lead to more questions. If you are up to shenanigans, honesty might not be your friend. :lol:

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Umm the cop above you answered that question an hour before you posted.

If someone attempts to identify themselves as a LEO, and they are not in a marked patrol car, and/or in uniform, ask them for their ID. If they hesitate, at all, grab your cell phone and dial 911. There is not a cop on the planet that would try enforcing the law without being willing to identify himself.

 

I've had over a dozen encounters with uniforms and badges while geocaching. The only ones that were the least bit unpleasant were from mall rent a cops and not true blue LEO's. Even the Franklin PD was polite when they told us to get out of town or get cited for cruising after GW2.

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Umm the cop above you answered that question an hour before you posted.

If someone attempts to identify themselves as a LEO, and they are not in a marked patrol car, and/or in uniform, ask them for their ID. If they hesitate, at all, grab your cell phone and dial 911. There is not a cop on the planet that would try enforcing the law without being willing to identify himself.

 

I've had over a dozen encounters with uniforms and badges while geocaching. The only ones that were the least bit unpleasant were from mall rent a cops and not true blue LEO's. Even the Franklin PD was polite when they told us to get out of town or get cited for cruising after GW2.

Ha! Franklin PD got us after GW2 as well! I had a carload of cachers in my Suburban in the early morning hours doing caches along their main street. Pulled out of one parking lot into the street and noticed that one of us had left her GPS on the hood, so I slowed to a crawl and pulled into another parking lot, which prompted four or five cars of Franklin's finest to light us up and check to see if we were drunk. They were nice folks, I explained the game and that was it. Small world that they checked you too!

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I have always heard to remain in your vehicle when pulled over.

 

Also, be willing to call 911 if they don't identify themselves. You may also be familiar with some law enforcement rules in your area. For example, in PA, it is illegal for a non-uniformed police officer to make a vehicle stop. If you are stopped by and then approached by someone who is not in some kind of identifiable uniform, I would suggest both driving to the nearest police station at that point, and calling 911 while on your way.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Also, as stated earlier, US Marshals do not enforce normal laws nor do they patrol.

 

Be aware, however, that on tribal lands in the US, the equivalent of Sheriff is Marshall in many places. It may not be a US Marshall - it might be a Tribal Marshall, and they do carry authority.

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When a law enforcement officer stops you, do not exit your vehicle until/unless asked. By doing so, you place yourself outside the LEOs comfort zone, and indicate that there may be something in the car you don't want him to see. It's a typical distraction technique utilized by drunks and potheads. You also put the officer in a position where he will need to focus more on your safety, wondering why the fidiot he stopped insists on standing next to a busy highway. Overall, it's generally a bad idea.

 

So if I understand you correctly, jumping into the bushes and hiding at the first sight of their car is not a good idea. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

 

We have had eight LEO encounters (so far) and all of them ended with out a problem. A couple encounters did start off a little iffy due to where we were at the time, but as soon as they knew that we understood that they were just doing their job, everything settled down to a simple Q&A. However I do need to remember not to put my hands into my pockets when standing around talking to them. :lol:

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Still haven't figured out how to quote a previous post but FireRef's response is wrong and will get you arrested.

 

First of all the law in most states is that a vehicle used primarily for traffic enforcement must be marked. That does not prohibit officers in unmarked cars who are doing crime related work (not primarily traffic) from making a stop. Many people wrongly interpret the first part to mean that an unmarked car cannot make a stop.

 

Fleeing while calling will get massive amounts of police cars to respond and end up with you prone on the ground and handcuffed. If the vehicle turns on a red light and sounds a siren and you keep going that is fleeing and you are going to jail.

 

His advice should be disregarded completely (unless you like the handcuffing and full body search).

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For example, in PA, it is illegal for a non-uniformed police officer to make a vehicle stop.

From the Pennsylvania Driver's Manual:

 

Chapter 4 - Driving Record Information PA Driver’s Manual

- 79 -

Remember, police lights can be red and blue, or could be red only on unmarked police vehicles. You may also see

flashing white lights used in addition to these lights. If the vehicle is flashing only blue lights, then it is not a

police officer. If you see flashing red and blue lights or flashing red lights only and you are still not certain the

person pulling you over is actually a police officer, you may drive to the nearest well-lit, populated area, but

acknowledge you understand the request to stop by turning on your flashers and driving at a reduced speed. You

may ask the officer for identification, and should do so if the individual who has stopped you is not in uniform or

has an unmarked vehicle. Most officers in unmarked vehicles are wearing police uniforms, and police officers

always possess a photo ID card and a badge.

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Still haven't figured out how to quote a previous post but FireRef's response is wrong and will get you arrested.

 

First of all the law in most states is that a vehicle used primarily for traffic enforcement must be marked. That does not prohibit officers in unmarked cars who are doing crime related work (not primarily traffic) from making a stop. Many people wrongly interpret the first part to mean that an unmarked car cannot make a stop.

 

Fleeing while calling will get massive amounts of police cars to respond and end up with you prone on the ground and handcuffed. If the vehicle turns on a red light and sounds a siren and you keep going that is fleeing and you are going to jail.

 

His advice should be disregarded completely (unless you like the handcuffing and full body search).

 

Sorry but I disagree with you completely, if you suspect that someone is impersonating a police officer and trying to have you pull over, I would NOT pull over, slow down, turn on your flashers so they know you are aware of their presence and dial 911, the 911 operator can verify if the LEO behind you is actually a LEO and then you can pull over. My safety and my wifes safety is far more important than a ticket, and any reasonable officer will understand.

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Question...

 

The OP seems sure this person was a fake/phoney/fraud posing as a U.S. Marshall so why is the badge from this LE office posted here ?

 

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=485883546408&set=a.416475396408.189323.379649931408

The U.S. Marshall Service also runs the federal witness security program (witsec), fugitive apprehension, and some federal judge security details. The cachers' encounter may have been from suspicious activity near one of these subjects

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For example, in PA, it is illegal for a non-uniformed police officer to make a vehicle stop.

From the Pennsylvania Driver's Manual:

 

Chapter 4 - Driving Record Information PA Driver’s Manual

- 79 -

Remember, police lights can be red and blue, or could be red only on unmarked police vehicles. You may also see

flashing white lights used in addition to these lights. If the vehicle is flashing only blue lights, then it is not a

police officer. If you see flashing red and blue lights or flashing red lights only and you are still not certain the

person pulling you over is actually a police officer, you may drive to the nearest well-lit, populated area, but

acknowledge you understand the request to stop by turning on your flashers and driving at a reduced speed. You

may ask the officer for identification, and should do so if the individual who has stopped you is not in uniform or

has an unmarked vehicle. Most officers in unmarked vehicles are wearing police uniforms, and police officers

always possess a photo ID card and a badge.

 

Problem is that you are quoting a driver's handbook, not the actual law.

 

From the PA Code:

 

*****

§ 42.21. Identification and uniform requirements.

(a) Identification. Police officers using an unmarked police vehicle shall ensure they are carrying official identification, other than their uniform, to verify their identity, unless it would jeopardize the police officers’ safety due to their work assignment. Police officers shall be prepared to display their official identification upon request. Police officers shall honor these requests when the request is reasonable and the police officer’s safety has been ensured. If the police officer does not carry official identification, the police officer may not attempt to stop traffic law violators, unless there is immediate threat to public safety.

 

(B) Uniforms. Police officers assigned to use an unmarked police vehicle to perform patrol duties shall be attired in an official uniform. Police officers assigned other duties that are likely to include or require traffic stops shall wear an official uniform or alternative attire, such as a police raid jacket, that bears the name of a specific law enforcement agency or task force.

*****

 

And, uniform ...

 

*****

42.3. Definitions.

The following words and terms, when used in this chapter, have the following meanings, unless otherwise indicated:

 

Light bar assembly—A device designed and constructed to display more than one steady burning, flashing or revolving beam of light with 360° visibility.

 

Marked police vehicle—A police vehicle that is equipped with at least one light-bar assembly and displays graphics, markings or decals identifying the agency or department on a minimum of three sides (front, rear, left or right).

 

Official identification—Identification issued, designated or approved by the individual law enforcement agency or municipality.

 

Official uniform—Any attire designated or approved by the individual law enforcement agency or municipality.

 

Unmarked police vehicle—A police vehicle not equipped with a roof mounted light-bar assembly. The vehicle may display graphics, markings or decals, identifying the agency or department.

 

-----

 

Therefore, without some kind of uniform, a police officer should not be making, at least in PA, from making a vehicle stop unless there is an immediate threat to life and safety. News agencies promoted what I said earlier - drive to a well lit area (which I did not mention, but someone else did), or to the nearest police station (if you know where it is, obviously as mentioned by someone else, at a slow rate of speed, flashers are a nice idea), and call 911 to question this.

 

Not all unmarked vehicles have official plates. In some states, police vehicles don't have plates. In PA, there are municipal and state plates, but there are some state police vehicles used in traffic enforcement, such as several high speed sports cars down near Pittsburgh that I am aware of, that have a normal PA plate on them. The always have a uniformed officer in them when they are used for speed enforcement.

 

Also, unlike most states, PA uses blue lights for volunteer firemen - I have a set on my vehicle. Problem is, we have chiefs, safety officers, and fire police (mostly traffic direction and scene safety) captain and lieutenant that have red lights, so there are 6 people per department with red lights and sirens. Legally you have to get out of the way when these people (red/siren) are coming, but the blues are just a courtesy light. This means you can't file charges if people don't get out of your way, but it would be really nice - I always like to think "We might be going to save your house or your grandmother, so why would you want to stay in our way?" We can't make any kind of traffic stop, but we have had people with red lights that have before - and you get in a MASSIVE amount of trouble for this - it is basically treated as impersonating a police officer, but has a different name (official oppression).

 

Common sense - if someone comes up behind you with lights or lights and a siren, get out of the way. If they stop behind you, and you are uncomfortable, I would say drive to someplace safe, while calling 911 on your phone to confirm that there is a legal vehicle stop in progress at your location. In our area, they are running your plate while pulling you over, so there is a record of it if it is a legal stop.

 

Thanks to everyone who says "Completely disregard what FireRef is saying." Glad I don't know anything. You might want to say this to all of the TV stations who tell people this in my area every couple of years when the topic comes up.

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Question...

 

The OP seems sure this person was a fake/phoney/fraud posing as a U.S. Marshall so why is the badge from this LE office posted here ?

 

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=485883546408&set=a.416475396408.189323.379649931408

 

I agree, why are badges being posted at all? When has running into the cops while geocaching become cool? I thought one of the attractions to this sport/hobby is the fact that we are kind of like an underground society. Well the more negative attention that is drawn to the sport, the more it becomes known. Lets try and be a little smarter while caching, a little less obvious and encounters with LEO won't happen. That's unless your wanting to fill up your badge page!

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For example, in PA, it is illegal for a non-uniformed police officer to make a vehicle stop.

From the Pennsylvania Driver's Manual:

 

Chapter 4 - Driving Record Information PA Driver’s Manual

- 79 -

You may ask the officer for identification, and should do so if the individual who has stopped you is not in uniform or

has an unmarked vehicle.

 

Problem is that you are quoting a driver's handbook, not the actual law.

Uh... OK. Lemme see if I got this right...

You claimed it was illegal for non-uniformed cops to conduct traffic stops.

I cited a source which suggested it was not illegal.

You cited a source which clearly states it's not illegal.

And I have the problem?

 

Whatever you say. :unsure:

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Still haven't figured out how to quote a previous post but FireRef's response is wrong and will get you arrested.

 

First of all the law in most states is that a vehicle used primarily for traffic enforcement must be marked. That does not prohibit officers in unmarked cars who are doing crime related work (not primarily traffic) from making a stop. Many people wrongly interpret the first part to mean that an unmarked car cannot make a stop.

 

Fleeing while calling will get massive amounts of police cars to respond and end up with you prone on the ground and handcuffed. If the vehicle turns on a red light and sounds a siren and you keep going that is fleeing and you are going to jail.

 

His advice should be disregarded completely (unless you like the handcuffing and full body search).

 

Actually, according to PA statute while an unmarked car CAN make a stop, and a non-uniformed officer can also make a stop the following defenses are written in the statute:

 

http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/vehicles/00.037.033.000.html

 

© Defenses.--

(1) It is a defense to a prosecution under this section

that the pursuing police officer's vehicle was not clearly

identifiable by its markings or, if unmarked, was not

occupied by a police officer who was in uniform and

displaying a badge or other sign of authority.

(2) It is a defense to prosecution under this section if

the defendant can show by a preponderance of the evidence

that the failure to stop immediately for a police officer's

vehicle was based upon a good faith concern for personal

safety. In determining whether the defendant has met this

burden, the court may consider the following factors:

(i) The time and location of the event.

(ii) The type of police vehicle used by the police

officer.

(iii) The defendant's conduct while being followed

by the police officer.

(iv) Whether the defendant stopped at the first

available reasonably lighted or populated area.

(v) Any other factor considered relevant by the

court.

 

FireRef's response is 100% on target.

 

As for the OP, the guy is likely a fraud. US Marshall's don't investigate suspicious activity like this and are likely unaware of this stuff going on. If they were they would call in the local uniformed patrol. If they were doing a stakeout and confronted you, you would know for sure they were the police.

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There are also US Marshall Task Forces where the members are acutally employed by the local departments but are working as and being paid by the US Marshalls. This could be another reason for the unmarked vehicle (which they almost always have). And as for the getting out of the car thing, wow. I would have proned him out on the asphalt had he jumped out of his car on me like that.

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And as for the getting out of the car thing, wow.

Aw, c'mon! It makes a better story even if it didn't happen quite that way. I mean, "A long standing rule of not *letting* leo's approach my vehicle" is terrific writing!

But my question is, even if it was a security guard who bought his lights at K-Mart looking out for a property owner who has lost a bunch of copper, what's really your problem?

And why was it your first "mistake" to show your ID?

And what were the other mistakes?

I think with a little work the OP could make this a very entertaining story and submit to Online Geocacher or FTF Geocaching magazine.

Edited by hukilaulau
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And perhaps more on topic...

I've had maybe a dozen encounters with LEO's over the years, but I don't think any of them were US Marshals.

I've NEVER had a negative experience. Twice I've needed police assistance when I got myself locked behind gates. mostly the other times the LEO's just wanted to make sure I was OK or else they were checking to see if I was hunting in unauthorized areas. My encounters have been in several different states so it's not just that the local LEO's are especially courteous.

Actually there was one possibly negative encounter with a mall security guard. I'm pretty sure he muggled a lamp-post cache after he saw me putting it back. He was very polite when he was talking to me, but it was missing the next time someone looked for it.

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For example, in PA, it is illegal for a non-uniformed police officer to make a vehicle stop.

From the Pennsylvania Driver's Manual:

 

Chapter 4 - Driving Record Information PA Driver’s Manual

- 79 -

You may ask the officer for identification, and should do so if the individual who has stopped you is not in uniform or

has an unmarked vehicle.

 

Problem is that you are quoting a driver's handbook, not the actual law.

Uh... OK. Lemme see if I got this right...

You claimed it was illegal for non-uniformed cops to conduct traffic stops.

I cited a source which suggested it was not illegal.

You cited a source which clearly states it's not illegal.

And I have the problem?

 

Whatever you say. :unsure:

Y'all seem to be quoting PA law here. The officer (if it was an officer) stated he was a US Marshall, not a PA Marshall. Federal laws trump state laws and federal officers play by a whole different set of rules. Try finding a law saying that a federal officer must be clearly marked or in uniform. A large number of them ride plain vehicles and clothes everyday. Many of them are also familiar with the offiers that work the same area they do and know what's going on. Maybe he had a heads up and lives in this particular area and is jut watching out whenever he is in the area. I like to keep up with the crime going on near my house and pay more attention to certain areas when I know stuff is going on. There seems to be a lot of the blind leading the blind here.

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For example, in PA, it is illegal for a non-uniformed police officer to make a vehicle stop.

From the Pennsylvania Driver's Manual:

 

Chapter 4 - Driving Record Information PA Driver's Manual

- 79 -

You may ask the officer for identification, and should do so if the individual who has stopped you is not in uniform or

has an unmarked vehicle.

 

Problem is that you are quoting a driver's handbook, not the actual law.

Uh... OK. Lemme see if I got this right...

You claimed it was illegal for non-uniformed cops to conduct traffic stops.

I cited a source which suggested it was not illegal.

You cited a source which clearly states it's not illegal.

And I have the problem?

 

Whatever you say. :unsure:

 

Sorry CR, I don't see where what FireRef posted suggests it is not illegal.

 

We are not talking about undercover narcs, we are talking about plainclothes officers. They will follow the offender and call for uniformed backup. If it is an emergency, say a drunk weaving down the road, they can pull them over with their lights, but they cannot get out of their cars and approach the vehicle. They call for backup. For that matter, a single lone uniformed officer will not exit his car to approach a pulled over car. They call for backup. We have a uniformed marked unit that stays in reserve for traffic stops.

 

There was a serial rapist some years ago who's M.O. was to use lights bought at an auto store to pull over lone women. That along with officers being shot in the face by drivers led to the changes.

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Sorry CR, I don't see where what FireRef posted suggests it is not illegal.

FireRef said this:

For example, in PA, it is illegal for a non-uniformed police officer to make a vehicle stop.

That's a pretty clear statement. Not much room for ambiguity. No exceptions. Period. Do this, and go to jail. According to his post.

 

Then he posted this:

From the PA Code:

 

*****

§ 42.21. Identification and uniform requirements.

(a) Identification. Police officers using an unmarked police vehicle shall ensure they are carrying official identification, other than their uniform, to verify their identity, unless it would jeopardize the police officers’ safety due to their work assignment. Police officers shall be prepared to display their official identification upon request. Police officers shall honor these requests when the request is reasonable and the police officer’s safety has been ensured. If the police officer does not carry official identification, the police officer may not attempt to stop traffic law violators, unless there is immediate threat to public safety.

See the part in bold? What that means is, there are occasions when a law enforcement officer, in civilian attire, driving an unmarked vehicle, can conduct a traffic stop without getting arrested. Ergo, it's not illegal, all the time. There are exceptions. Is stopping a car off duty, out of uniform a really bad idea? Absolutely. Is it against agency policy? Probably. At least I would hope it is. So, stopping cars, in Pennsylvania, while dressed in civilian clothes, driving civilian cars, can get you yelled at and/or fired, but so long as you can articulate the need, it will not get you arrested.

 

But somehow, the handbook I cited, (which says essentially the same thing as the law he cited), is wrong?

 

Maybe I am the one with the problem. :unsure:<_<

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Yup, me too.

 

as for PA law. the law says an unmarked car, plainclothes officer can make stops as long as they have Id on them. and without id they can still do it for public safety reasons.

 

it also says you can't be charged for failing to stop for them.

 

but I am sure a uniformed officer in a marked car will show up to effect the stop. better stop for that one.

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For that matter, a single lone uniformed officer will not exit his car to approach a pulled over car.

I do. Several times a shift. My closest backup is, at a minimum, 20 minutes away.

I will have my citation/warning/etc issued long before backup shows up.

Me too. I ride a motorcycle so I am always alone and my primary job is traffic enforcement (stopping cars) and I typically ride the worst side of town late at night and approach cars with 4 and 5 people in them by myself.

 

Like TAR said, the people on these forums will argue with anyone about anything.

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I am sorry but I just have to tell this story.

 

I was out with two of my regular caching friends (I will just call them B Bob and TPP to hide there Identity) and as we were standing on the corner getting ready to head in for the cache when a police car pulled up and the officer ask what we were doing.

Well TPP looks at Him and says Oh nothing we just thought would hang around and look suspicious!

 

Thought for sure we were going for a ride but the police officer laughed and drove away.

 

True story

Edited by The Waldo's
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I mean no disrespect to the fine men and women of law enforcement, but to castigate those who would question an officers methods isn't facing reality. While an officer approaching a car by him/herself is common (that's mostly what I've seen), questions of law are far murkier.

 

Who can/can't carry a weapon, when, where, and how, is often interpreted incorrectly by officers, and the rules seem to change depending on who the officer is.

 

I had a chance to speak to two of Spokane County's Sheriffs officers on one occasion, and asked them what the car seat laws were for an open Land Cruiser. They had completely opposite interpretations of the law, and proceeded to argue with each other about what the law was. One said he'd pull me over and ticket me for having my kids in the back, and the other said it was fine. Obviously there is room to argue points of law, when officers can't even agree among themselves!

 

(Note: this is again not aimed at Clan Riffster or the other officers who have posted -- I'm simply pointing out that all officers don't know everything about the law. When even courts and attorney's can't even agree on the law, how can we expect an officer on the ground to know all the fine points?)

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I mean no disrespect to the fine men and women of law enforcement, but to castigate those who would question an officers methods isn't facing reality. While an officer approaching a car by him/herself is common (that's mostly what I've seen), questions of law are far murkier.

 

Who can/can't carry a weapon, when, where, and how, is often interpreted incorrectly by officers, and the rules seem to change depending on who the officer is.

 

I had a chance to speak to two of Spokane County's Sheriffs officers on one occasion, and asked them what the car seat laws were for an open Land Cruiser. They had completely opposite interpretations of the law, and proceeded to argue with each other about what the law was. One said he'd pull me over and ticket me for having my kids in the back, and the other said it was fine. Obviously there is room to argue points of law, when officers can't even agree among themselves!

 

(Note: this is again not aimed at Clan Riffster or the other officers who have posted -- I'm simply pointing out that all officers don't know everything about the law. When even courts and attorney's can't even agree on the law, how can we expect an officer on the ground to know all the fine points?)

 

Heck, most people here cannot agree on what the guidelines say about signing logsheets.

Different places do in fact have different laws/rules/guidelines.

 

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