If you cant leave anything nice....

[+2crazybykers]

I am a noob, but as much as I love reading the postings I feel compelled to plead/write/vent so here goes:

 

I was out at a spot I frequent; it's beautiful and has a nice grouping of caches. As I open one of the containers I find an empty SHOTGUN CASING! (yes I did remove it)

The cache was intact, well hidden and had not been muggled; so, I can only conclude that a previous cacher had place this "unique" trinket. This really bothers me!!!

 

Here's a little info about me:

1) My husband and I are responsible gun owners; our fire arms are for recreational purposes (target shooting).

2) I am not opposed to hunting- as long firearm to game size ratio is fair.

2) We have raised our daughter to also follow this doctrine (she does not, nor has she ever used a firearm-her personal belief system).

3) We have 2 grandchilden (both under 3). Neither has used or has access to firearms (mom will decide if they can participate in this activity when they are older)

4) I a new to Geocaching and I am excited about bringing the g-babies along in the future.

5) I do not think leaving live ammo or any remnants of ammuntion is ok in a cache.

 

In my opinion:

No, I would not like to find this garbage in any cache; alone or with children.

These item are senseless and dangerous. Isn't it ok to just sign the log and go find the next cache?

 

Am I (geo)crazy???

Thanks for reading.

 

My mama always said if you can't leave anything nice.. don't leave anything at all. Sign the log and MOVE ON!

[+J the Goat]

I am a noob, but as much as I love reading the postings I feel compelled to plead/write/vent so here goes:

 

I was out at a spot I frequent; it's beautiful and has a nice grouping of caches. As I open one of the containers I find an empty SHOTGUN CASING! (yes I did remove it)

The cache was intact, well hidden and had not been muggled; so, I can only conclude that a previous cacher had place this "unique" trinket. This really bothers me!!!

 

Here's a little info about me:

1) My husband and I are responsible gun owners; our fire arms are for recreational purposes (target shooting).

2) I am not opposed to hunting- as long firearm to game size ratio is fair.

2) We have raised our daughter to also follow this doctrine (she does not, nor has she ever used a firearm-her personal belief system).

3) We have 2 grandchilden (both under 3). Neither has used or has access to firearms (mom will decide if they can participate in this activity when they are older)

4) I a new to Geocaching and I am excited about bringing the g-babies along in the future.

5) I do not think leaving live ammo or any remnants of ammuntion is ok in a cache.

 

In my opinion:

No, I would not like to find this garbage in any cache; alone or with children.

These item are senseless and dangerous. Isn't it ok to just sign the log and go find the next cache?

 

Am I (geo)crazy???

Thanks for reading.

 

My mama always said if you can't leave anything nice.. don't leave anything at all. Sign the log and MOVE ON!

 

An empty shotgun casing, while trash, is pretty tame compared to some other things folks have found in caches. Not trying to trivialize, just sayin....

 

As far as the muggle factor, you'd be surprised how many remote caches that are well hidden get muggle finds. While the likelihood that a cacher left the shell is high, it's not at all unthinkable that it was left by a muggle. I was FTF on a cache that required a moderately high clearance 4wd vehicle and decent trail maps. Hadn't been found for several months. At least 2 muggles had signed the log, and more than that had found it, as the second one said he left..... uh..... a special cigarette, but it certainly wasn't there when we got to it.

[+niraD]

I've got to agree with J The Goat. It may be useless, but I don't see the danger in a spent casing. It isn't like it's live ammo.

Edited December 17, 2010 by niraD

[+LukeTrocity]

I'm more annoyed by empty shell casings in the woods. Finding one in a cache is par for the course.

[+G & C]

Ummm... what? What on earth would possibly be dangerous about a spent shell?

 

Further, I know more than a couple of geocachers who leave random spent casings and shells as their "calling card". Usually with their name on it somewhere, but not all the time.

 

At any rate, I think you might be worked up over pretty much nothing.

[Andronicus]

I think it is tacky, but other than that, no problem. At least it is a generaly clean peice of trash.

 

I'm more annoyed by empty shell casings in the woods. Finding one in a cache is par for the course.

Oh man. Here we go....

Shotgun shell casings bio degrade quite quickly. The brass portion, well, it is just metal (copper and zinc), wich original came from the ground anyway.

 

Where I went phesent hunting this year, hundreds of casings are left every year. I did not see even a single one the whole time out there. They kind of dissapear. Heck, I dropped a live shell, and spent about 5 min looking for it and couldn't find it, and it is red (mayby that explains all my DNFs).

[+LukeTrocity]

I think it is tacky, but other than that, no problem. At least it is a generaly clean peice of trash.

 

I'm more annoyed by empty shell casings in the woods. Finding one in a cache is par for the course.

Oh man. Here we go....

Shotgun shell casings bio degrade quite quickly. The brass portion, well, it is just metal (copper and zinc), wich original came from the ground anyway.

 

Where I went phesent hunting this year, hundreds of casings are left every year. I did not see even a single one the whole time out there. They kind of dissapear. Heck, I dropped a live shell, and spent about 5 min looking for it and couldn't find it, and it is red (mayby that explains all my DNFs).

So plastic biodegrades well? Thats a new factoid. Shotgun shells use a plastic wad which takes quite a long time to degrade. As far as the metal argument, my old stove is cast iron, since iron comes from the earth can I drop it on your lawn?

 

Anyway I really wasn't trying to argue one way or another....

[+J the Goat]

I think it is tacky, but other than that, no problem. At least it is a generaly clean peice of trash.

 

I'm more annoyed by empty shell casings in the woods. Finding one in a cache is par for the course.

Oh man. Here we go....

Shotgun shell casings bio degrade quite quickly. The brass portion, well, it is just metal (copper and zinc), wich original came from the ground anyway.

 

Where I went phesent hunting this year, hundreds of casings are left every year. I did not see even a single one the whole time out there. They kind of dissapear. Heck, I dropped a live shell, and spent about 5 min looking for it and couldn't find it, and it is red (mayby that explains all my DNFs).

So plastic biodegrades well? Thats a new factoid. Shotgun shells use a plastic wad which takes quite a long time to degrade. As far as the metal argument, my old stove is cast iron, since iron comes from the earth can I drop it on your lawn?

 

Anyway I really wasn't trying to argue one way or another....

 

If it's an old potbelly stove that's still functional, you can drop it on my lawn

[+michigansnorkelers]

Finding any kind of junk in a cache is upsetting, yet common.

 

I once found a live 22 caliber bullet in a cache, in a tourist area frequented by families. Now, THAT was upsetting.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I'm more annoyed by empty shell casings in the woods. Finding one in a cache is par for the course.

 

I once found an empty shell casing in the woods that was used *as* a geocache.

[+power69]

As I open one of the containers I find an empty SHOTGUN CASING!

Imagine how you would have felt to find a LOADED PISTOL in a cache? I did!

removed it for safety sake.

[+MontyFam]

Yeah spent shells are no biggie IMHO. I understand your frustration but do not agree with it, in this case... Happy caching!

[+JL_HSTRE]

More trash than swag to me, but seems pretty harmless.

[+Ecylram]

I've seen a number of items that seemed like trash, but were left nevertheless. Like others here, I see that item as 'trash' but harmless.

[+Borst68]

I found a rusty fish hook once. IMO that is a FAR bigger issue than a spent shotgun shell. I do agree that it shouldn't be there but I wouldn't get too worked up about it. Caching is suppose to be fun. Don't let someone ruin you fun over a spent shell casing. As for taking the grandkids... I think its great a hobby and will afford the kids some priceless time with their grandparents in the woods. One recommendation: Always have an adult open the cache FIRST and inspect it BEFORE letting the kids paw through it. Make sure there is nothing sharp or broken. A broken McToy can be just as sharp as a knife. Inspect and trash out anything broken or dangerous. You probably know this already but I thought I add this to the thread since it hadn't been mentioned... Enjoy caching with your grandkids!!!!

[+Walts Hunting]

I don't see anything wrong with a spent casing either. The general downward trend of stuff left in trade has been complained about for years. I don't even know one person who still trades.

 

You have very strict guidelines for your family about firearms. Others have different guidelines. My nephew (whose father is an avid hunter) killed his first deer at 9.

 

Some people say that the CO should go out and restock occasionally but I disagree with that. The main point of this hobby to me is the find. I found early on that having to write down each trade on a 20 cache day and then type it in was not a part of the hobby that was enjoyable so I just stopped trading.

[+the4dirtydogs]

You will come across a bunch of trash in caches as you find more. We usually take out the trash and put some swag back in the cache. We only trade swag when our 7yr old daughter is with us. It's kinda funny when she asks what size the cache is before we get out to search. She really doesn't care too much for micros. I think you did a good thing by taking out the trash from the cache, I would have taken the shell out also. We have found live rounds too. No your not crazy just concerned. Cache On.

[mukanshin]

When I was a kid, I thought bullet shells were pretty cool. I wouldn't rate them any worse than most of the stuff in geocaches.

 

As for being dangerous or inappropriate, yeah you're crazy.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

That spent shell would not be considered trash if it is found by someone who reloads their own ammo, particularly if it is of the caliber that they own and reload.

 

John

[+wimseyguy]

Finding any kind of trash like spent shotgun shells in caches is more /sigh-disappointing than OMG!!-bothersome.

[+sbell111]

When I was a kid, I would have thought that a spent shell was the absolute coolest thing ever.

 

Also, I make pens out of spent rifle brass, so I'm glad to find those whenever I can.

 

One person's trash...

[+42at42]

Ummm... what? What on earth would possibly be dangerous about a spent shell?

 

It's like anything else these days. If a kid sees a spent casing, he might want to pick up a gun and start shooting.

 

Hide it from the kids' eyes, if they never see thing they won't have impulses. It is easier than teaching them things are wrong.

 

Let the older kids watch "Cops" and teach them, this is what happens if you do drugs. Don't pretend drugs don't exist and hide everything from their sights.

 

NO, I am NOT saying it is OK to put drugs in caches.

 

I am just saying that the shell casing in the cache is not a bad thing for a kid to see. If you need to, explain the safety issues if the child comes across a loaded shell.

[+narcissa]

Shotgun shell casings bio degrade quite quickly. The brass portion, well, it is just metal (copper and zinc), wich original came from the ground anyway.

 

Plastic disintegrates into smaller and smaller pieces, and it has pretty far-reaching ecological impacts. It doesn't nicely biodegrade and become one with the earth. The tiny bits of plastic find their way into the food chain, either as small chunks of plastic that can kill organisms that try to eat them, or as the more basic chemical components of plastic that accumulate in tissues. You may not be able to see them under your feet, but it doesn't mean they're gone. Plastic in the food chain is linked to all sorts of health problems in humans. Ever heard of dioxins?

 

Humans are pretty much at the top of the food chain, so we're well-positioned to end up eating plastic chemicals from a variety of sources. Had your fatty tissues test for PCBs lately?

 

The metals are probably less bad than the plastic, but they aren't good. Yes, these metals come from the earth, but in unnatural concentrations in the soil they aren't good. BTW, uranium, cadmium, lead, and mercury all "came from the ground" too, but I'm really not keen on having them in my food.

[+Walts Hunting]

Interesting discussion. We place thousands of metal canisters and tupperware containers around the world and are arguing about the ecological effect of a shotgun shell.

 

Time to climb down of the pedestal and all go caching.

[+briansnat]

I've got to agree with J The Goat. It may be useless, but I don't see the danger in a spent casing. It isn't like it's live ammo.

 

Heck, I found a series of caches that used spent shells as the cache container. I really don't see the issue.

They are not inherently dangerous, unless you perhaps choked on one.

[+narcissa]

Interesting discussion. We place thousands of metal canisters and tupperware containers around the world and are arguing about the ecological effect of a shotgun shell.

 

Time to climb down of the pedestal and all go caching.

 

I don't know about you, but I don't leave my geocaches out to rot for perpetuity.

[+Cindyj2]

I wouldn't like to find ammo of any kind in a cashe but I think it would be a great teachable moment for my son.

 

I you don't teach your kids they won't know right from wrong.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Take care ya'll!

[Wallydraigle]

When I was a kid, I would have thought that a spent shell was the absolute coolest thing ever.

 

Also, I make pens out of spent rifle brass, so I'm glad to find those whenever I can.

 

One person's trash...

 

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. People, and not just little kids, collect all sorts of things. If it's that upsetting just trade it out.

[+BlueDeuce]

 

My mama always said if you can't leave anything nice.. don't leave anything at all. Sign the log and MOVE ON!

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

It is trash. Dangerous no, but definitely not worth carp as a trade item.

 

(I know that there are caches that use trash as a container but we are talking about swag, and trash, left in caches)

[+BlueDeuce]

When I was a kid, I would have thought that a spent shell was the absolute coolest thing ever.

 

Also, I make pens out of spent rifle brass, so I'm glad to find those whenever I can.

 

One person's trash...

 

Some people even like old dirty golf balls.

Edited December 18, 2010 by BlueDeuce

[+Chokecherry]

i have a friend who is all over dirty old golf balls in caches. I scored a broken lure out of one last summer. Don't know why I needed to take it but something about it just spoke to me went into my treasure box at home.

[+42at42]

An ammo can with a spent cartridge or shell. It is just coming home.

[+narcissa]

When I was a kid, I would have thought that a spent shell was the absolute coolest thing ever.

 

Also, I make pens out of spent rifle brass, so I'm glad to find those whenever I can.

 

One person's trash...

 

Some people even like old dirty golf balls.

 

I like throwing them.

[g_o_caching]

Take out the trash if you want to. You will have better luck doing that than making people stop putting worthless swag in a cache. I just swapped a lanyard for a carabiner yesterday, but I usually TNLN unless it's a travel bug or geocoin.

[+Manville Possum]

I have seen shotgun shells recycled into geocache containers, I have made micro's from .45 Long Colt & .357 Magnum brass. The OP scares me more, but they are in Kalifornia. Their gun laws are more strict than any other State that was once part of America.

 

Legally armed FFL holder, and supporter of the Constitution of the United States of America.

[+BlueDeuce]

An ammo can with a spent cartridge or shell. It is just coming home.

 

Well said.

[+Charlie Fingers]

Why would a used shell make you leave out the grandkids from geocaching? Did you perceive this as a threat?

[+J the Goat]

I have seen shotgun shells recycled into geocache containers, I have made micro's from .45 Long Colt & .357 Magnum brass. The OP scares me more, but they are in Kalifornia. Their gun laws are more strict than any other State that was once part of America.

 

Legally armed FFL holder, and supporter of the Constitution of the United States of America.

 

 

Do you really have to drag that trash into a thread about trash? Really?

[4wheelin_fool]

This double post was brought to you from a genuine iPhone.

Edited December 18, 2010 by 4wheelin_fool

[4wheelin_fool]

Shotgun shell as swag?

 

I have found caches in ammo cans. That's right, the entire container was previously used to store ammunition. Imagine that.

[+G & C]

I have seen shotgun shells recycled into geocache containers, I have made micro's from .45 Long Colt & .357 Magnum brass. The OP scares me more, but they are in Kalifornia. Their gun laws are more strict than any other State that was once part of America.

 

Legally armed FFL holder, and supporter of the Constitution of the United States of America.

 

 

Do you really have to drag that trash into a thread about trash? Really?

 

I don't get it. Everything he said is true. What's your point?

[+BlueDeuce]

I don't get it. Everything he said is true. What's your point?

 

Carp spent casings left as swag. Did you not read the OP post?

[+John in Valley Forge]

When I was a kid, I would have thought that a spent shell was the absolute coolest thing ever.

 

Also, I make pens out of spent rifle brass, so I'm glad to find those whenever I can.

 

One person's trash...

 

Some people even like old dirty golf balls.

 

I like throwing them.

 

Don't you worry about the plastic breaking down in the woods and moving up the food chain to humans?

[+G & C]

I don't get it. Everything he said is true. What's your point?

 

Carp spent casings left as swag. Did you not read the OP post?

 

I did. Didn't see anything about bottom feeding fish though.

 

Did you read any of the posts since the OP?

[+John in Valley Forge]

I have seen shotgun shells recycled into geocache containers, I have made micro's from .45 Long Colt & .357 Magnum brass. The OP scares me more, but they are in Kalifornia. Their gun laws are more strict than any other State that was once part of America.

 

Legally armed FFL holder, and supporter of the Constitution of the United States of America.

 

 

Do you really have to drag that trash into a thread about trash? Really?

 

I don't get it. Everything he said is true. What's your point?

 

Perhaps that this is supposed to be a discussion about geocaching, not 2nd amendment politics.

[+Manville Possum]

I have seen shotgun shells recycled into geocache containers, I have made micro's from .45 Long Colt & .357 Magnum brass. The OP scares me more, but they are in Kalifornia. Their gun laws are more strict than any other State that was once part of America.

 

Legally armed FFL holder, and supporter of the Constitution of the United States of America.

 

 

Do you really have to drag that trash into a thread about trash? Really?

 

I don't get it. Everything he said is true. What's your point?

I don't get it either G&C. But I served my Country to keep America free and that includes their right to freedom of speech. I really don't care what their opinion is. Probally just another anti-gun advocate that dislikes the way that I make a living.

 

NRA & VFW Member.

[+Manville Possum]

I have seen shotgun shells recycled into geocache containers, I have made micro's from .45 Long Colt & .357 Magnum brass. The OP scares me more, but they are in Kalifornia. Their gun laws are more strict than any other State that was once part of America.

 

Legally armed FFL holder, and supporter of the Constitution of the United States of America.

 

 

Do you really have to drag that trash into a thread about trash? Really?

 

I don't get it. Everything he said is true. What's your point?

 

Perhaps that this is supposed to be a discussion about geocaching, not 2nd amendment politics.

If you actually read my post, the main subject is used ammo casings recycled for geocache containers.

[+G & C]

I have seen shotgun shells recycled into geocache containers, I have made micro's from .45 Long Colt & .357 Magnum brass. The OP scares me more, but they are in Kalifornia. Their gun laws are more strict than any other State that was once part of America.

 

Legally armed FFL holder, and supporter of the Constitution of the United States of America.

 

 

Do you really have to drag that trash into a thread about trash? Really?

 

I don't get it. Everything he said is true. What's your point?

 

Perhaps that this is supposed to be a discussion about geocaching, not 2nd amendment politics.

 

I'm pretty much 100% positive that the OP brought this subject to light, not Manville Possum Hunters. If you don't want a thread to be about guns, perhaps start a thread that isn't about guns. Apparently the OP thinks guns are objects to be feared as opposed to respected, many will disagree. Not sure where they might have thought this thread was going. It all sounds relative to the debate to me.

 

I say carry on.

[+J the Goat]

I have seen shotgun shells recycled into geocache containers, I have made micro's from .45 Long Colt & .357 Magnum brass. The OP scares me more, but they are in Kalifornia. Their gun laws are more strict than any other State that was once part of America.

 

Legally armed FFL holder, and supporter of the Constitution of the United States of America.

 

 

Do you really have to drag that trash into a thread about trash? Really?

 

I don't get it. Everything he said is true. What's your point?

I don't get it either G&C. But I served my Country to keep America free and that includes their right to freedom of speech. I really don't care what their opinion is. Probally just another anti-gun advocate that dislikes the way that I make a living.

 

NRA & VFW Member.

 

Of course you don't care what anyone elses opinion is. Why would you, what with your sense of superiority based on your military service (or so it would seem.) Don't forget that there are those of us who serve the country without being in the military, but don't spout off about it on internet forums. Get off your high horse. Don't judge me, you've got no business or right to do so.

 

Concerning the first amendment, I'm as entitled to ask you not to turn a non-political thread into another one that I'm going to skip as you are to try to do just that. Unfortunetly for you, it works both ways.

 

I hope this is the post that closes this thread, I'm pretty sure the OP got enough responses with good information before this debacle started. Thanks Mr. NRA & VFW Member. You've done this whole conversation a whole lot of good.

[+Manville Possum]

I have seen shotgun shells recycled into geocache containers, I have made micro's from .45 Long Colt & .357 Magnum brass. The OP scares me more, but they are in Kalifornia. Their gun laws are more strict than any other State that was once part of America.

 

Legally armed FFL holder, and supporter of the Constitution of the United States of America.

 

 

Do you really have to drag that trash into a thread about trash? Really?

 

I don't get it. Everything he said is true. What's your point?

I don't get it either G&C. But I served my Country to keep America free and that includes their right to freedom of speech. I really don't care what their opinion is. Probally just another anti-gun advocate that dislikes the way that I make a living.

 

NRA & VFW Member.

 

Of course you don't care what anyone elses opinion is. Why would you, what with your sense of superiority based on your military service (or so it would seem.) Don't forget that there are those of us who serve the country without being in the military, but don't spout off about it on internet forums. Get off your high horse. Don't judge me, you've got no business or right to do so.

 

Concerning the first amendment, I'm as entitled to ask you not to turn a non-political thread into another one that I'm going to skip as you are to try to do just that. Unfortunetly for you, it works both ways.

 

I hope this is the post that closes this thread, I'm pretty sure the OP got enough responses with good information before this debacle started. Thanks Mr. NRA & VFW Member. You've done this whole conversation a whole lot of good.

My post was on topic discussing that I have seen and made geocache containers from used ammo casings, and my understanding is that the OP lives in the most restrictive State in America concerning gun laws, and their opinion differs greatly from what is considered normal in most parts of the United States. They are upset because they found a harmless shotgun shell casing in a geocache, we use them for geocache containers. And I see no problem with the pride that I take in my Country, I love America, and I love our freedom that we have here. Now you disagree with my opinion and want the thread closed, trying to turn it into a political debate and twist my words to suit you own agenda and blame me.