Why do I want a dedicated GPS receiver rather than my iPhone?

December 11, 2010

I'm still a bit of a newcomer to this and have been using the Geocaching app on my iPhone for my finds so far. I've been thinking about the whole geocaching thing and am puzzled by the thought of a dedicated GPS receiver rather than my iPhone, so my simple question is "Would I ever want/need one?"

* My iPhone app gives me decent enough accuracy so far, and as I understand it, a dedicated receiver doesn't give significantly improved accuracy. If I need improved accuracy I can always use the MotionX app to improve it a bit.

* My iPhone app gives quick links to descriptions and hints, which can be very helpful.

* My iPhone app allows me to go and look for a cache without planning it online first. Whenever I have a few minutes spare in a town, I can turn it on and see if there are any geocaches nearby then go and find them.

I'm sure I'm missing something, but I just can't see any reason why I would want to get a GPS device as well. What am I missing?

Thanks in advance.

2.3k · December 11, 2010

I used an iphone for my first few finds and my friend currently uses an iphone but is saving up for a dedicated GPS.

Anyhow, I don't know where you find your geocaches. Here reception is a real issue. There is not cell phone reception everywhere.

My iphone was not always accurate and had a large margin of error. And I tend to geocache in forested areas which can create problems even with good GPSr's let alone the phone.

I didn't feel my Iphone was rugged enough to take into many situations I found myself caching in. I've dropped and accidentally thrown my gps and have spent many rainy days with it out and searching.

Battery life. I'm not going to buy all the fancy on the go rechargers for my phone. I needed to be able to geocache straight for 8 hours and at times spend an hour or more solid in areas of bad reception looking for a cache. The phone just could not do that.

I wanted to eventually hide caches. You aren't allowed to hide caches with your phone.

I wanted nice simple ways to manually enter coordinates and that wasn't an option with the application and I'm not going to noodle around with multiple applications.

But mostly it was the reality of the terrain I enjoy geocaching in not being compatible with my cell phone. If I look at all the adds on and upgrades I need to the phone chargers, serious cases and so on I've pretty much just surpassed the cost of a gpsr unit.

But it's up to you. If a gpsr doesn't meet your needs don't get one.

1.4k · December 11, 2010

I used an iphone for my first few finds and my friend currently uses an iphone but is saving up for a dedicated GPS.

Anyhow, I don't know where you find your geocaches. Here reception is a real issue. There is not cell phone reception everywhere.

My iphone was not always accurate and had a large margin of error. And I tend to geocache in forested areas which can create problems even with good GPSr's let alone the phone.

I didn't feel my Iphone was rugged enough to take into many situations I found myself caching in. I've dropped and accidentally thrown my gps and have spent many rainy days with it out and searching.

Battery life. I'm not going to buy all the fancy on the go rechargers for my phone. I needed to be able to geocache straight for 8 hours and at times spend an hour or more solid in areas of bad reception looking for a cache. The phone just could not do that.

I wanted to eventually hide caches. You aren't allowed to hide caches with your phone shouldn't hide caches with your iphone because the accuracy as far as marking coordinates are notoriously off.

I wanted nice simple ways to manually enter coordinates and that wasn't an option with the application and I'm not going to noodle around with multiple applications.

But mostly it was the reality of the terrain I enjoy geocaching in not being compatible with my cell phone. If I look at all the adds on and upgrades I need to the phone chargers, serious cases and so on I've pretty much just surpassed the cost of a gpsr unit.

But it's up to you. If a gpsr doesn't meet your needs don't get one.

December 11, 2010

I'm still a bit of a newcomer to this and have been using the Geocaching app on my iPhone for my finds so far. I've been thinking about the whole geocaching thing and am puzzled by the thought of a dedicated GPS receiver rather than my iPhone, so my simple question is "Would I ever want/need one?"

* My iPhone app gives me decent enough accuracy so far, and as I understand it, a dedicated receiver doesn't give significantly improved accuracy. If I need improved accuracy I can always use the MotionX app to improve it a bit.

* My iPhone app gives quick links to descriptions and hints, which can be very helpful.

* My iPhone app allows me to go and look for a cache without planning it online first. Whenever I have a few minutes spare in a town, I can turn it on and see if there are any geocaches nearby then go and find them.

I'm sure I'm missing something, but I just can't see any reason why I would want to get a GPS device as well. What am I missing?

Thanks in advance.

On the last two points you are correct, on the first you are not. All modern and several older dedicated hiking GPSrs a much more accurate then phone GPSrs, especially when in tree cover. Also, when you decide to start hiding you will need to get a dedicated GPSr, even if you borrow one from a friend. iPhone and other phone hides have notoriously given horrible coords.

Also consider battery life and durability. In the city these aren't much of an issue. If you decide to get out on the trails this will be. I've dropped my GPSr on all sorts of surfaces, what happens when you do that with your iPhone? I have a Delorme PN-30 which has one of the worst battery life in the handheld market, but still I'll go 8 hours on two AAs then pop in two more.

I have a BB and an Android based phone as well as several hand held GPSrs, I use the HH GPSr 98 percent of the time.

December 11, 2010

I'm sure I'm missing something, but I just can't see any reason why I would want to get a GPS device as well. What am I missing?

Have you ever used a capacitive screen in light drizzle (or worse)?

My HTC HD2 screen goes completely crazy when small water droplets fall on the screen as contacts are made and broken and things triggered. It becomes unusable. I believe the iphone has the same type of screen (capacitive).

And of course you can't use a protective case over the screens with these phones as the screens need direct contact with skin.

The other problem (as already stated) is battery life. Not such a bad problem on the HTC and other smartphones as you just carry a spare battery (as I do). Two batteries can easily give 8-10 hours constant use.

But an iPhone can't have a spare battery so you need to carry some sort of external powering device if you are going to be away from a power source for some time (i.e a good day caching).

I don't see how signal coverage is a problem, as once you have the cache info downloaded into the phone you don't need phone reception at all, any more than you do with a dedicated GPS device. So I think that's a bit of a red herring.

So if you don't cache away from your vehicle (for a power supply) for more than a few hours at a time, and don't go out in the rain, an iPhone might be all you ever need.

We use a combination of:

HTC HD2 Smartphone, which is good for:

Getting latest logs
Viewing full cache pages
Downloading nearest caches not on the GPS
Looking at google maps/satellite view
Memory maps
Taking photos of our adventures
Recording a GPS track of our walk

Then we have an Etrex Legend, which is good for:

Actually finding GZ
Walking about in the rain
Virtually unlimited battery life (with spare rechargables)
Generally being a reasonably rugged 'outdoor' device.

The 2 devices compliment each other nicely. But you can cache with either type of device as long as you accept the limitations of each.

The dedicated GPS appears to have fewer uses than the smartphone. But in reality, the things it is good at are sometimes key to a good day out.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Lovejoy and Tinker

4.8k · December 11, 2010

I use my iPhone predominantly for urban caching, and my handheld for hiking and longer distance caching. The main difference I see between the two:

1. Battery life

2. Accuracy

3. Ruggedness

I still love the iPhone app though. It's been a terrific addition to the game

December 11, 2010

OK, I can easily concede the battery point. Hadn't really thought about that!

I've never had a problem with my screen in the rain, so I can ignore that.

I can also concede the accuracy thing as I just don't have a dedicated system to compare it to my iPhone. I'm not hiding them yet, but when I am, I may think about upgrading to a receiver. But then again, can't I use something like Google Maps to find the precise coordinates?

Also, I still can't get around the great simplicity and ease of the iPhone app which allows me to look at many geocaches that I haven't prepared for the day. Are there any GPSr units that allow access to geocaching.com in any way? If I'm out shopping with the wife and a bit bored, I can always open the app and nip off for a few minutes. OK, I could just use the GPSr on dedicated caching days and save the iPhone for the more 'impromptu' days...

December 11, 2010

OK, I can easily concede the battery point. Hadn't really thought about that!

I've never had a problem with my screen in the rain, so I can ignore that.

I can also concede the accuracy thing as I just don't have a dedicated system to compare it to my iPhone. I'm not hiding them yet, but when I am, I may think about upgrading to a receiver. But then again, can't I use something like Google Maps to find the precise coordinates?

Also, I still can't get around the great simplicity and ease of the iPhone app which allows me to look at many geocaches that I haven't prepared for the day. Are there any GPSr units that allow access to geocaching.com in any way? If I'm out shopping with the wife and a bit bored, I can always open the app and nip off for a few minutes. OK, I could just use the GPSr on dedicated caching days and save the iPhone for the more 'impromptu' days...

Using Google Maps to obtain coordinates is a big no-no. Google Maps are not always accurate, and I believe the guidelines explicitly state that you must use a gpsr to obtain the coordinates for a cache you hide.

If you have a premium membership, you can run Pocket Queries, which allows you download a bunch of caches to your gpsr for a particular area. The higher end gpsr's can also store the cache descriptions and hints, so you have all the info you need. You can't access gc.com in real-time, like you can with your phone, but you can write up field notes on the device, then upload them to gc.com when you get home.

If you're happy with what your iphone gives you, there's no big hurry to get a handheld gpsr. Read about the different devices and understand what they have to offer, but go with what works for you!

5.3k · December 11, 2010

... I'm not hiding them yet, but when I am, I may think about upgrading to a receiver. But then again, can't I use something like Google Maps to find the precise coordinates?

...

No, you cannot. For one, Google Maps are not accurate enough. And secondly, the Cache Listing Guidelines/Requirements require that you obtain the coordinates at the cache location using a GSP receiver.

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#guide

"You as the owner of the cache must visit the site and obtain the coordinates with a GPS. GPS usage is an essential element of geocaching. Therefore, although it is possible to find a cache without a GPS, the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions."

December 11, 2010

OK, fair enough on the Google Maps thing. I just want to try and do everything correctly, without spending money where it's not needed. Maybe I'm being picky, but in the statement: "You as the owner of the cache must visit the site and obtain the coordinates with a GPS. GPS usage is an essential element of geocaching. Therefore, although it is possible to find a cache without a GPS, the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions.", it doesn't explcitly state that it must be a GPSr rather than a phone. If I found the coordinates using my phone in a combination of MotionX and Geocaching, then verfied the coordinates using a variety of online systems, shouldn't that satisfy the requirements?

Again, I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to save myself £100!

December 11, 2010

my simple question is "Would I ever want/need one?"
* My iPhone app gives me decent enough accuracy so far.

* My iPhone app gives quick links to descriptions and hints, which can be very helpful.

* My iPhone app allows me to go and look for a cache without planning it online first.

What am I missing?

as a bit of a newbie myself- i am a reluctant responder. but i relate to your question, so here's my two cents:

i live in santa cruz, california. i have an ATT=i-phone.

i love the geo-app. it is awesome. however- cell reception in this area is notoriously HORRIBLE from ATT.

i love my i-phone... nevertheless... i cannot count on it.

i do a fair amount of my caching while hiking or mountain biking and already own a GPS.

if i am caching anywhere but right in town, i lose cell reception on my i-phone - thus my app is useless.

so i use it often, but need/want back-up, and i don't want to be restricted to cell reception friendly caches.

in addition, sometimes on a difficult find (in town)- i use my GPS to double-check the location...

sadly, the two are almost never in agreement. when my i-phone won't take me to the cache- my GPS will.

(and, yes, you need a GPS to hide a cache. period. no way around it.)

December 11, 2010

In fairness to my situation, all of the caching I've done so far has been in towns. If I move more into rural caching, I guess I can see the need. Also, I do want to hide some, so I may have to give more consideration to this.

I know that there are many many threads and posts about which GPSr is 'the best', but is there one specific thread that can be reccomended to me to help in this choice? I don't know anything about them other than my iPhone and the tomtom car unit.... Thanks!

4.8k · December 11, 2010

GPS Reviews

You might also consider attending or Hosting an Event. People with more experience may have even more ideas, or better yet, you could partner up with someone that owns a handheld unit that could help verify your coordinates

Event Calender

December 11, 2010

I really don't think it is an either or kind of thing. I have a BB with CacheSense so I can go paperless. I also have a Garmin Vista Hcx. I usually bring both of them on all cache runs and use each when it makes sense. In heavy cover or difficult terrain I put away the BB and use the Garmin. For good weather urban caches I usually don't bother to bring out the Garmin. This way I also optimize battery life on the BB because I can shut off the GPSr when not using it and this greatly increases the battery life I get (I only get about 4 hrs life max if I have the GPSr on the BB active continuously).

Like others have said, I prefer caches in the woods where I can see some great views. When going for these, I generally only pull out the BB when I am having trouble making a find want to check up the latest logs or (gasp!) look at the hint.

I can see your point about spontaneous caching. I must admit that I don't generally do much of that so it is not so important to me. I do, however, keep nearby unfound caches updated on my phone and GPSr so as long as I am not too far from home, the spontaneous thing is still a possibility for me were I so inclined.

One thing I can say is that if you couple a phone with a GPSr then you can get away without needing one of the newer fancier paperless GPSr models. You can get away with something like a Garmin Legend H which you can get for around $100 here in the states.

December 11, 2010

Thanks for the help with this. I think I will probably leave it for now, until I start hiding some myself. If I do more of the rural caches, I can see the need for it, but my iPhone seems to be doing the job for me at the moment.

14k · December 11, 2010

In fairness to my situation, all of the caching I've done so far has been in towns. If I move more into rural caching, I guess I can see the need. Also, I do want to hide some, so I may have to give more consideration to this.

I know that there are many many threads and posts about which GPSr is 'the best', but is there one specific thread that can be reccomended to me to help in this choice? I don't know anything about them other than my iPhone and the tomtom car unit.... Thanks!

The battery issue has already been addressed. I've left my iPhone in "navigation mode" a couple of times and the phone starts that get *really* warm. That indicates to me that it's using a lot of cpu cycles to continously update the location information and that significantly reduced battery life.

The suitability for use in an outdoor environment should not be underestimated. Most handheld GPS units are quite water resistant can can even be submerged (which is what's going to happen if it's dropped into a creek.) I've heard of GPS units falling off a vehicle while traveling 30mph down a road and, other than a few scratches will continue to work. My GPS (Garmin GPSMap 76Cx) allegedly even floats (I haven't tested this) but I've had it strapped to the deck of my kayak when I've rolled it quite a few times. Almost all smart phones are just not designed for a harsh outdoor environment, which, coincidentally is where a lot of geocaches are hidden.

Marginal cell phone services has been mentioned and can certainly be an issue. If you ever get the opportunity to travel abroad the geocaching app on the iPhone is going to require access to a data plan. Even if you go to Canada, data roaming charges run about $15 per megabyte. I've been to numerous countries where it's around $20 per mb. You can rack up some ridunculous data roaming charges if you tried to use you iPhone to find geocachers while abroad. I've found geocaches in 11 countries and it's not an issue with a dedicated GPS and global satellite reception.

December 11, 2010

Marginal cell phone services has been mentioned and can certainly be an issue. If you ever get the opportunity to travel abroad the geocaching app on the iPhone is going to require access to a data plan. Even if you go to Canada, data roaming charges run about $15 per megabyte. I've been to numerous countries where it's around $20 per mb. You can rack up some ridunculous data roaming charges if you tried to use you iPhone to find geocachers while abroad. I've found geocaches in 11 countries and it's not an issue with a dedicated GPS and global satellite reception.

Haven't done the abroad thing yet, but would definitely like to. Are there any GPS devices that would add the same kind of functionality that my iPhone gives me for 'spontaneous geocaching'? Or must I do all research prior to leaving home?

Edited December 11, 2010 by DomAndKitty

1.2k · December 11, 2010

Battery consumption. I used my BlackBerry to find over 300 caches. But when I started doing hiking caches I realized I needed a dedicated GPS.

4.8k · December 11, 2010

Marginal cell phone services has been mentioned and can certainly be an issue. If you ever get the opportunity to travel abroad the geocaching app on the iPhone is going to require access to a data plan. Even if you go to Canada, data roaming charges run about $15 per megabyte. I've been to numerous countries where it's around $20 per mb. You can rack up some ridunculous data roaming charges if you tried to use you iPhone to find geocachers while abroad. I've found geocaches in 11 countries and it's not an issue with a dedicated GPS and global satellite reception.

Haven't done the abroad thing yet, but would definitely like to. Are there any GPS devices that would add the same kind of functionality that my iPhone gives me for 'spontaneous geocaching'? Or must I do all research prior to leaving home?

The same "spontaneous" functionality? Not quite. For such a feature, the unit would have to have some sort of data plan like a phone. Most of the top end units have the "paperless" functionality however, but you do have to do a bit of advance planning to get the data loaded on the unit.

Most people use a Pocket Query to get a large chunk of information, in the form of a gpx data file, from the site, and download that to their unit:

Creating your first Pocket Query

2.3k · December 11, 2010

I bring my phone with to look at cache pages or find near by caches.

If not already in my gps I enter the coordinates (which are listed in the cache info on the phone).

I decided I didn't need a high end unit just a little work house unit combined with my phone for hte paperless stuff.

December 11, 2010

Marginal cell phone services has been mentioned and can certainly be an issue. If you ever get the opportunity to travel abroad the geocaching app on the iPhone is going to require access to a data plan. Even if you go to Canada, data roaming charges run about $15 per megabyte. I've been to numerous countries where it's around $20 per mb. You can rack up some ridunculous data roaming charges if you tried to use you iPhone to find geocachers while abroad. I've found geocaches in 11 countries and it's not an issue with a dedicated GPS and global satellite reception.

Haven't done the abroad thing yet, but would definitely like to. Are there any GPS devices that would add the same kind of functionality that my iPhone gives me for 'spontaneous geocaching'? Or must I do all research prior to leaving home?

It depends on how you define spontaneous. I have setup enough PQs to cover the whole state of Tennessee. Each week these are generated over three days and I download them into a program called GSAK (Geocaching Swiss Army Knife). I can then load 1000 caches into my Delorme PN-30. I can do this for different areas and save the files on my GPSr. Then when I'm out I load the file for the area I'm in. Delorme's Topo9 software can download the PQ files and transfer them to the PN-30 automatically. If you get the Magellan eXplorist GC you can download the PQs directly to it through your computer and it holds 10,000 caches. But you will spend more for these kinds of units. If you want something less expensive go with a used Garmin Extrex line (just make sure it has a H in the model name) or an older Magellan eXplorist. Use these for hiding and planned hikes and use your phone for quickies and keeping the cache info.

14k · December 11, 2010

Marginal cell phone services has been mentioned and can certainly be an issue. If you ever get the opportunity to travel abroad the geocaching app on the iPhone is going to require access to a data plan. Even if you go to Canada, data roaming charges run about $15 per megabyte. I've been to numerous countries where it's around $20 per mb. You can rack up some ridunculous data roaming charges if you tried to use you iPhone to find geocachers while abroad. I've found geocaches in 11 countries and it's not an issue with a dedicated GPS and global satellite reception.

Haven't done the abroad thing yet, but would definitely like to. Are there any GPS devices that would add the same kind of functionality that my iPhone gives me for 'spontaneous geocaching'? Or must I do all research prior to leaving home?

When I have traveled I haven't even tried to do any spontaneous geocaching. I usually have a really good idea which caches I'm going to go after and have mostly targeted caches that are in places that I want to see anyway. In a couple of instances I just chose a route I wanted to walk (or as in case of Barcelona, I rented a bike). In other places there were so few geocaches available (when I was in Tanzania there nearest cache was about 40 miles away...but I got it) but I also have never tried to find a *lot* of caches while traveling abround. Just one or two is fine if it adds another country to my list.

As someone else indicated, in order to download waypoints in real time it needs some sort of data plan so as long as you pretty much have to have caches preloaded. However, most hotels have internet access or you could use an internet cafe to search for caches while in country and create a PQ. I didn't check to see if you have a premium membership but if you do, downloading pocket queries to your phone will give you a list of geocaches in your phone and doesn't require a real time search of the area. You still need to use a data plan to navigate to the cache. Apparently there are a couple of apps that run on the Android phones that will allow you to use the GPS while "offline", even in airplane mode. I don't know if anything is available that'll do that on the iPhone but it would be worth looking for even if you don't geocache abroad.

1.2k · December 11, 2010

Really, having 1000-2000 caches loaded into a GPS is like caching with a smartphone. Storing that many caches cover up to 40 miles around my house. If I'm traveling I just load up another PQ of 1000 caches with my destinations zip code. Takes 2 seconds to do.

I still use my BlackBerry to read logs and log my caches. I also use the BlackBerry to get FTFs. You cannot beat the quickness of a smartphone for FTF runs!

1.2k · December 11, 2010

Really, having 1000-2000 caches loaded into a GPS is like caching with a smartphone. Storing that many caches cover up to 40 miles around my house. If I'm traveling I just load up another PQ of 1000 caches with my destinations zip code. Takes 2 seconds to do.

I still use my BlackBerry to read logs and log my caches. I also use the BlackBerry to get FTFs. You cannot beat the quickness of a smartphone for FTF runs!

December 11, 2010

Well, you all seem to offer compulsive reasons as to why my bank balance is going to grumble at you all!

At present, I'm not a Premium Member, although I can see the time when that becomes a good idea. Do Pocket Queries come with the 'Hints' and 'Descriptions'? How about the recent logs that can be helpful for finding caches?

8.3k · December 12, 2010

Well, you all seem to offer compulsive reasons as to why my bank balance is going to grumble at you all!

At present, I'm not a Premium Member, although I can see the time when that becomes a good idea. Do Pocket Queries come with the 'Hints' and 'Descriptions'? How about the recent logs that can be helpful for finding caches?

PQ's have short descriptions, long descriptions, hints and last five logs not counting yours, additional waypoints, size and D/T rating, in addition to the coordinates, name and GC number. Oh, and you can see the Premium member caches. If you download the gpx from the cache page you get 20 logs plus yours.

December 12, 2010

So really, what you're saying is, there's absolutely no functional reason as to why I shouldn't just 'man up' and buy a GPSr other than the money? Oh well....

Edited December 12, 2010 by DomAndKitty

15.3k · December 12, 2010

So really, what you're saying is, there's absolutely no functional reason as to why I shouldn't just 'man up' and buy a GPSr other than the money? Oh well....

I do a lot of caching with my phone. If your phone works for what you're doing, then stick with it.

But if I'm finding more than a few caches at a time, then I need the battery life of my handheld unit. If I'm on terrain that is rugged enough that I don't feel comfortable carrying my phone in my hand, then I need the rugged design of my handheld unit. If I'm taking coordinates for my own cache, then I use my handheld unit (although my phone seems to be just as accurate as my old yellow eTrex when I'm seeking caches). And if I'm under heavy cover under the redwoods, then I need the sensitivity of a friend's modern handheld unit (because neither my phone nor my old yellow eTrex are up to that challenge).

What kind of geocaching are you going to be doing? Once you answer that, you can figure out what kind of tools you need for the job.

1.5k · December 12, 2010

We've used an iPhone 4 to find over 700 caches in mostly urban caching. We love the ease of grabbing caches on a whim, no matter what part of town we are in. Having said that...

We just bought a used Oregon 450 (arrives next week). We ordered it because we are starting to place caches and the iPhone 4, while much better than the previous iPhones, isn't accurate enough for placing a cache that isn't in a wide-open field.

We also got the Oregon for finding caches in poor reception areas, in cloudy/bad weather, and for more accurate results when searching for high-difficulty caches.

The iPhone 4 is great for urban caching, especially if you live in a sunny climate (which we do). But, there are times when a HH GPSr will just work better.

We'll continue to use the iPhone for most of our caching.

December 12, 2010

Been where you have been!

We started with a smart phone to gauge our interest.

Now we use a paperless GPSr which can hold 1000s of caches.

-Battery Life

-Reception

-Waterproof

-Accuracy

Nothing wrong with the smartphones, they definitely have their place.

One veteran basically told me, you'll know when you need one...sounds like you may be closer.

Happy Caching! - hawkeyetob

December 12, 2010

it doesn't explicitly state that it must be a GPSr rather than a phone. If I found the coordinates using my phone in a combination of MotionX and Geocaching, then verified the coordinates using a variety of online systems, shouldn't that satisfy the requirements?

The GPSr in your phone is a "real" one. But the antenna may not be as good, so the accuracy ofd the coordinates may be poor in some conditions (tree cover, valleys, buildings, cloud cover, sunspots). If you can be sure that someone using a quality GPSr will be lead to the right spot, then that's the important thing. The easiest way to be sure, is to use a quality GPSr. Borrow one or buy one, it's all the same to us.

Otherwise, you may frustrate people who will not be able to find your cache, or find it 150' away from where the coordinates say to look.

You might have good results with your phone plus online maps, but you might not. It's hard to say for sure.

Sometimes people used "real" GPSr coordinates and still got it 60' wrong anyway, so it's no guarantee.

December 24, 2010

So we've just been out on the hunt for three caches. We only found one and I think I now see a bit more about why it would be useful to buy a dedicated system.

1. My battery was eaten up very easily.

2. If doing urban caches, a phone is great because you can do things spontaneously and just nip off and find one or two caches without any preparation and you always have your phone with you, but if doing rural caches, they're not as easy to find with a phone. Unlike an urban cache, you don't have as many permanent structures to fix on by looking at the maps ("It's down this street, just past the bus stop" is a lot easier than "I'm in that forest but I can't see the path on the map as we're under trees").

We've just been talking about buying a handheld gps and we'd like to only spend a minimum of money as we're still quite new to this and don't yet know if we're going to stick with it (Loving it so far, but it's always worth being a bit cagey about a new hobby rather than going and blasting a load of cash!). Something under £100 seems sensible. I seem to keep coming up with the 'Garmin eTrex H Handheld GPS Navigator', which (once you include the case and obligatory cable) comes out at £88. Only problem being that it seems to get some mixed reviews, especially when under tree cover - which is where we are currently having a problem with the iPhone. Can anyone offer any advice? I know that there are always many questions on here about which unit to buy, and I've read many of them, but they never seem to quite answer the question you want to pose yourself!

Thanks in advance.

9.2k · December 24, 2010

Ah-ha! You're in the UK.

UK and Ireland cachers can be found over in the UK and Ireland side of the forums here link

Where we can talk £'s and pence's all day long!

The basic Garmin will do you well.

Combined with the phone to access the cache page via the web -make notes, so you don't have to keep reading the page on the phone- should last you a while.

Other option is to go to a local event and talk kit with others, before you splash out.

December 24, 2010

At present, I'm not a Premium Member, although I can see the time when that becomes a good idea. Do Pocket Queries come with the 'Hints' and 'Descriptions'? How about the recent logs that can be helpful for finding caches?

I thought I'd describe the procedure I use to get the geocaches on my receiver and field notes off. I have a few pocket queries set up. You can put up to 1,000 geocaches in a single pocket query, but I've found that it takes a really long time to load such files on the GPSr so I try to limit it to 500. Each query goes into a separate file and I don't know what the limit is on the number of files. One query I run finds the 500 geocaches nearest to my house I haven't already found (covers over a 30 mile radius). Another finds the 300 nearest to my house with a terrain rating of at least 3 (covers about a 60 mile radius). I have family and friends in Panola county, so I have a query for the 500 nearest Carthage. Then I set up one for Dallas when I went there a few weeks ago. Other than the Dallas one, these all run once or twice a week.

So any time I want to upload these queries to my GPSr, all I do is run Windows in VMWare (a step most people can skip), open Cache Register, and connect the GPSr to my computer. Cache Register uploads all pocket queries and downloads all field notes automatically. It's only for DeLorme units but I'm sure Garmin has something similar. But yeah, that's it. If I want to go somewhere else, I can just take a few minutes to run a pocket query for that area and put it on my GPSr or I can find them along a route. If I want to send individual ones to it, I just click on the geocaches in the map and click "Send to GPS".

I'm not telling you this so you'll run out and buy a dedicated GPSr immediately. Stick with what works. Just be aware that the ability for smartphones to find geocaches on the fly (assuming you have reception) isn't much of an advantage over what a good GPS unit can do.

Edited December 25, 2010 by mukanshin

December 26, 2010

Thanks for the help on Pocket Queries. When the time comes, I will certainly come back to this page and go through your comments and apply them! Thank you.

I have posted in the UK forums for specific £ questions. Thank you.

My wife and I had the following thought last night: As we're still very new to geocaching and the iPhone is basically doing what we want at the moment, except under tree cover, why splash out for a unit now only to need to upgrade at a later stage, giving a total spend of £300ish on GPSr's? Would it not be better to stick with the iPhone until say next Christmas, and then buy a decent unit like the Garmin 60CSx or similar that would do everything we want and save the money on the first splash on a cheaper GPSr. Hopefully that makes sense, any thoughts?

December 26, 2010

I'd wait. Just don't hide any of your own caches until then, or if you do, borrow a GPSr to check it.

1k · December 26, 2010

You've been caching with your phone for 6 weeks or so and found 10 caches.

It sounds like it is working fine for you.

Keep using it until you feel like upgrading and have the extra cash around.

December 26, 2010

I'm set on not hiding anything until I've found 50 caches now anyway, by which time I hope to have bought a GPSr. Even if I haven't at that time, I won't be hiding any until I've got one, so no worries there!

December 27, 2010

OK, I can easily concede the battery point. Hadn't really thought about that!

I've never had a problem with my screen in the rain, so I can ignore that.

I can also concede the accuracy thing as I just don't have a dedicated system to compare it to my iPhone. I'm not hiding them yet, but when I am, I may think about upgrading to a receiver. But then again, can't I use something like Google Maps to find the precise coordinates?

Also, I still can't get around the great simplicity and ease of the iPhone app which allows me to look at many geocaches that I haven't prepared for the day. Are there any GPSr units that allow access to geocaching.com in any way? If I'm out shopping with the wife and a bit bored, I can always open the app and nip off for a few minutes. OK, I could just use the GPSr on dedicated caching days and save the iPhone for the more 'impromptu' days...

Have you cached where there is no reception? The battery is the biggest issue. No big issue on a handheld, they can be had for very little $$. An iPhone will cost you about $1500 for a two year contract. A handheld only costs about $250 or so for a good one. More for a fancy model. And no contract or monthly $$.

Don't give up the iPhone, you need both. The smartphone will guide you there and give you the description (assuming you have coverage with ATT) and the handheld will go in for the final kill. How good is the smartphones in tree cover anyway?

Edited December 27, 2010 by alohabra

December 27, 2010

Before there's any confusion, we've changed our profile name from DomAndKitty to Monkey_Chops. I won't bore you with the reasons, but this is still me!

We've just had a lovely day doing a 4ish hour walk and found 7 caches out of the 7 planned for the walk. All found with the iPhone and a little bit of preparation. What we did was write down on a piece of paper all of the relevant parts of the clues and description for the caches, along with a basic rudimentary map so we knew roughly where we were going. We then only turned the iPhone when we were getting close so that we could use the GPS facility. Whilst this isn't perfect as I'd prefer to not use any paper, it certainly saved the battery for the whole walk and we had absolutely no problems finding anything. If we'd had the Geocaching app on for 4 hours, the battery would have long since died. The upshot of this is that, with a bit of preparation on my part, the iPhone worked very well for our walk with no problems regarding battery life. I definitely still want to move to a dedicated GPSr, but will probably stick to the plan of waiting a year to see if we stick with Geocaching (I don't think there's actually any doubt about this, but just being cautious...) and then splashing out on what we would really want then. Of course, I'll keep an eye on eBay for a very cheap second hand unit in the meantime.

1k · December 27, 2010

Before there's any confusion, we've changed our profile name from DomAndKitty to Monkey_Chops. I won't bore you with the reasons, but this is still me!

We've just had a lovely day doing a 4ish hour walk and found 7 caches out of the 7 planned for the walk. All found with the iPhone and a little bit of preparation. What we did was write down on a piece of paper all of the relevant parts of the clues and description for the caches, along with a basic rudimentary map so we knew roughly where we were going. We then only turned the iPhone when we were getting close so that we could use the GPS facility. Whilst this isn't perfect as I'd prefer to not use any paper, it certainly saved the battery for the whole walk and we had absolutely no problems finding anything. If we'd had the Geocaching app on for 4 hours, the battery would have long since died. The upshot of this is that, with a bit of preparation on my part, the iPhone worked very well for our walk with no problems regarding battery life. I definitely still want to move to a dedicated GPSr, but will probably stick to the plan of waiting a year to see if we stick with Geocaching (I don't think there's actually any doubt about this, but just being cautious...) and then splashing out on what we would really want then. Of course, I'll keep an eye on eBay for a very cheap second hand unit in the meantime.

Sounds like its working great for you and you have a good plan.

May I suggest you watch the "GPS Garage Sale" forum too. There often are reasonably priced units there and it might be safer than eBay.

December 27, 2010

I hadn't spotted the GPS Garage Sale forum, so I'll definitely have a good look through there. Thanks!

December 30, 2010

I currently cache with my iphone 4 with the official app.

1. as to accuracy I have generally been t=between 5 to 20 feet depending on cloud cover and tree cover. This is the same as the Explorist GC I got for my wife.

2. The battery life sucks when you start caching, you can really only expect 5 to 6 caches before you need to charge again.

3. As has been stated once traveling abroad you just can't use it unless you pay through the nose for data roaming. They say you can load PQs and then cache each map using Bing Maps then turn off the data, but I haven't tried this yet, and it can take forever to setup.

3. I love doing PQs, especially routes. This alowed for awesome caching while on a road trip and on a cruise. So I found a dedicated GPSr was better for this.

4. As far as rain I don't have any trouble using the phone even in heavy rain and you an put protective screens on them.

I will eventually get a dedicated GPSr for myself, but currently I do mostly urban caching and when necessary my wife has the GC.

The GC comes with a free 30 day membership to the site too, so you can check out how the PQ's work.

December 30, 2010

removed for double post.

Sorry

Edited December 30, 2010 by sp1tf1re

2.7k · January 5, 2011

iPhone complaints:

1) Poor reception.

Solution: iPhone 4 has much better GPS reception than the 3GS, compares to my Garmin Colorado 400t

2) Can't use when there is no cellular signal

Solution: iPhone 4 GPS is a discreet GPS and does not rely on data connection

3) Can't use in rain!

Solution: Ziplock bag (not the thick freezer bags, thin ones still allow capacitive screen to work)

4) Poor battery

Solution: External battery like Mili Power Crystal (universal, can also charge the GPS instead). Close Geocaching app while not searching for cache.

5) iPhone is not rugged.

Solution: Pelican case. They even make one with headphone pass through. Or use an Otterbox defender case.

6) Can't use in winter with gloves on

Solution: Capacitive gloves

Having said that, to reply to the OP:

The discreet GPS will have an advantage in the battery, ruggedness and weather handling as the device is designed for that primarily. GPS position matters more with older (more than 6 month old) or cheaper smartphone devices. GPS tech has come a long way in the last few years and accuracy has dramatically improved for smartphones. I take both my iPhone 4 and my Colorado caching with me. The Colorado tends to be used more when I am concerned about keeping my iPhone in pristine condition (forgot the Pelican case). My Colorado can be counted on to crash at least twice for every caching trip I go on.

I started with discreet GPS. In fact, I am on my fourth discreet GPS. I prefer my iPhone 4 these days for 80% of the caches I visit.

January 5, 2011

I'm sure I'm missing something, but I just can't see any reason why I would want to get a GPS device as well. What am I missing?

Have you ever used a capacitive screen in light drizzle (or worse)?

My HTC HD2 screen goes completely crazy when small water droplets fall on the screen as contacts are made and broken and things triggered. It becomes unusable. I believe the iphone has the same type of screen (capacitive).

And of course you can't use a protective case over the screens with these phones as the screens need direct contact with skin.

Oh man that drives me insane. I was out with my Droid the other day and there was a light mist. I was trying to check the details of a cache I was after and "I" ended up posting a found log consisting of "x. Dffff". I'm thinking I might grab a dedicated GPSr as battery is also an enormous pain for me.

Edit:

I'm seeing people recommend not hiding a cache with an iPhone because of GPS accuracy. I have a Droid and it's generally on with about 6 feet of error. Does anyone else use a droid for that or know if it's accurate enough to hide with? I plan on putting a few out soon.

Edited January 5, 2011 by reasonman

2.7k · January 5, 2011

I'm sure I'm missing something, but I just can't see any reason why I would want to get a GPS device as well. What am I missing?

Have you ever used a capacitive screen in light drizzle (or worse)?

My HTC HD2 screen goes completely crazy when small water droplets fall on the screen as contacts are made and broken and things triggered. It becomes unusable. I believe the iphone has the same type of screen (capacitive).

And of course you can't use a protective case over the screens with these phones as the screens need direct contact with skin.

Oh man that drives me insane. I was out with my Droid the other day and there was a light mist. I was trying to check the details of a cache I was after and "I" ended up posting a found log consisting of "x. Dffff". I'm thinking I might grab a dedicated GPSr as battery is also an enormous pain for me.

Edit:

I'm seeing people recommend not hiding a cache with an iPhone because of GPS accuracy. I have a Droid and it's generally on with about 6 feet of error. Does anyone else use a droid for that or know if it's accurate enough to hide with? I plan on putting a few out soon.

Put a ziplock bag around the Droid too. Thin ziplock bags keep the water off but let you interact with the capacitive screen.

Easy way to tell if your Droid is accurate enough - go visit a known benchmark (or a couple) and compare your reading to the known reading. There's a bunch of "test your GPS" virtuals around that are great for this sort of thing. Make sure you check it in various conditions - sunny, cloudy, category 5 storm (ok maybe not the last one).

As for iPhone accuracy, there are three iPhone models with location capabilities. The older ones used cell phone triangulation while the iPhone 4 has a dedicated GPS. I'd happily hide a cache with an iPhone 4, though I'd average a couple readings to be sure.

January 5, 2011

I know this isn't for everybody, but I intentionally leave my phone at home or in the car. 1) I use it for work and it's like a leash. 2) I want rely on myself and not always think I can just call 911 and be saved. You have to be more careful and think when you know you won't be rescued.

In addition I often go hiking alone, at night, or bad weather just to know I can deal with it. I'm not competitive but it is sort of like a contest with myself.

Why do I want a dedicated GPS receiver rather than my iPhone?

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