opencaching? really?

[+roogie]

Why on earth would Garmin start up a geocaching website that duplicates the well established one here? Maybe I should go ask them as Garmin World HQ is literally about 5 minutes from my house.

 

OpenCaching.com Announcement

 

shaking my head,

 

roog

Edited December 7, 2010 by roogster

[+clan_Barron]

They would do it for the same reason any business does anything, profit motive. They would do it because they sell hardware that will support the site. It's "free for all" with no need for premium memberships because the cost of premium membership is built into every unit they sell. They would do it because instead of having to work with a 3rd party like GC.com to introduce new features where the unit interacts with the website, they can control the unit and the website. That is how they will try to build value in their website vs. others because features will work only with their units on their site I would bet. Sure the basic "download coords from the site to your unit" will work with any unit but I bet there will be features like chirp or something like Wherigo that needs their hardware and their site to get the most out of it, in attempt to convince you to buy Garmin hardware. Hey, making money is what business does, I don't begrudge them that. Real competition might be good for GC.com overall. They (GC.com) already are the market leader, so now comes the hard part, innovating so that they stay the leader.

Edited December 8, 2010 by clan_Barron

[+roogie]

I'm all for capitalism, but I don't see the obvious brand bias and special "Garmin brand only" features as being a good thing, so much for "open" caching. One of the great things about geocaching.com is the neutrality and the fact that regardless of what equipment you have there's a way to get into it. I have nothing against Garmin, in fact being a local company is one of the reasons I have all Garmin unit and I know several employees whom I like to support.

 

In the end I hope the opening of the second site doesn't divide or dilute the fanbase.

 

roog

[+Walts Hunting]

I don't understand why anybody would go list it there after posting it on GC.

 

In addition they only request a lat/long so there is not review process. I see all kinds of problems with that. All those people who complain about the .1 mile rule or had caches turned down by GC will go there.

 

You could have several caches at the same location. Containers 10 feet apart.

[+slycrel]

I'm all for capitalism, but I don't see the obvious brand bias and special "Garmin brand only" features as being a good thing, so much for "open" caching. One of the great things about geocaching.com is the neutrality and the fact that regardless of what equipment you have there's a way to get into it. I have nothing against Garmin, in fact being a local company is one of the reasons I have all Garmin unit and I know several employees whom I like to support.

 

In the end I hope the opening of the second site doesn't divide or dilute the fanbase.

 

roog

 

As a 3rd party developer I don't see any specific "branding" going on. It's even a bit difficult to tell at first glance that this is a garmin site. They do not require a login to get any of the data, only to add/edit data (by adding caches, logging, etc). Additionally, they are using the Groundspeak GPX standard tags for optimal interactivity with existing apps along with their own custom tags, a standard that Groundspeak I believe put out there for this purpose. This is a win/win for them and for the geocaching community. It does put Groundspeak in a tight spot as they have features that people have requested before that gc.com doesn't have, but Groundspeak has the high ground as far as all the data goes.

 

Should be interesting to see what happens.

Edited December 8, 2010 by slycrel

[John E Cache]

What does "import finds and hides" do?

[+G & C]

Competition is a good thing. Especially for the end user of either site. If Garmin has a viable alternative to Groundspeak, maybe Groundspeak works a little harder to keep its clientele happy. And vice-versa. No competition? Groundspeak continues to do as it pleases, no questions asked, no fear of retribution, no fear of losing customers, because there's no where else for them to go.

[+dfx]

I don't understand why anybody would go list it there after posting it on GC.

because they have a public API. no applications supporting it exist yet, but they soon will, as the API requires no effort to use. if a cache owner wants to give people access to their caches through those applications, they will crosslist them.

Edited December 8, 2010 by dfx

[+PokerLuck]

I see it as a competition issue. GC.com has fallen way behind on features. They're basically a database site and they have very poor search capabilities. The new site has great search capabilities. I'm hoping that they'll cause GC.com to wake up and be more responsive to the needs of the community. If they won't, maybe it's time for a change.

[+dfx]

I see it as a competition issue. GC.com has fallen way behind on features. They're basically a database site and they have very poor search capabilities. The new site has great search capabilities. I'm hoping that they'll cause GC.com to wake up and be more responsive to the needs of the community. If they won't, maybe it's time for a change.

i think the problem is that Groundspeak sees their service mainly as being a website, with the database being only the backend that drives it. oc.com on the other hand is mainly a database, with the website being only one of many possible frontends. in today's world, this is a much smarter model.

[+bpcooper14]

The only thing that I can really see that would point out the Garmin connection is the 2010 copy right at the bottom of the page and the send to gps function only supporting garmin. Neither of which is a problem to me since there is also the create a gpx file function as well. I haven't really looked at the site much but as long as it is maintained fairly well (unlike my experience with the terracaching site and some of the 'caches' on there), the more the better in mind mind.

[+Berta Nick Zoey]

Even though they dont have hundreds of thousands of caches placed yet, it still amazes me how fast the site redraws and shows that caches. I zoomed out to the west half of the country and it showed all caches (about 500 of them) instantly. It will be interesting to see how well it shows once there are thousands of caches placed.

[+Berta Nick Zoey]

I just zoomed out to where the entire Earth is shown and theres 2248 caches listed. Lets see GC do that in under 5 seconds. I know, much larger databases require much more crunch time to build. But, then again I only have to zoom out a little bit where I lve before I get the "You have exceeded 500 caches, zoom in" message.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Berta, Nick and Zoey

[+dreamarcher]

Well if Garmin wants people with other manufactures devices to convert then they should make their site/send-to support all devices. That would be a smart move.

 

I don't mind their site. I'll try it. Which ever works better I'll continue to use. Hopefully they won't have a limit to the number-per-time-period you can run PQs. I can only run My Finds once ever 3 days? What's up with that?

[+TotemLake]

Well if Garmin wants people with other manufactures devices to convert then they should make their site/send-to support all devices. That would be a smart move.

 

I don't mind their site. I'll try it. Which ever works better I'll continue to use. Hopefully they won't have a limit to the number-per-time-period you can run PQs. I can only run My Finds once ever 3 days? What's up with that?

Its a big improvement over what it originally was.... every 7 days.

[+G & C]

Well if Garmin wants people with other manufactures devices to convert then they should make their site/send-to support all devices. That would be a smart move.

 

I don't mind their site. I'll try it. Which ever works better I'll continue to use. Hopefully they won't have a limit to the number-per-time-period you can run PQs. I can only run My Finds once ever 3 days? What's up with that?

Its a big improvement over what it originally was.... every 7 days.

 

And it was 7 days not all that long ago, wasn't it?

[+RoadRoach58]

I went by and had a look, and NOT ONE SINGLE CACHE logged on their site in Alabama. Not ONE. So, me going there is pretty much pointless, despite having a Garmin unit. They got some growin' to do before I'll bother with it. Maybe gc.com has it's limits, but it's also got caches I can go find (some within a few hundred yards of my house).

 

Ok, now that I've said all that, I checked again today, and they've made a liar out of me. There's a whopping 5 caches logged on the site in Alabama now.

Edited December 9, 2010 by RoadRoach58

[+Tequila]

I wouldn't get too excited about it.

 

It would appear their website was designed by the same team that developed the Colorado.

 

.

[+larryc43230]

I went by and had a look, and NOT ONE SINGLE CACHE logged on their site in Alabama. Not ONE. So, me going there is pretty much pointless, despite having a Garmin unit. They got some growin' to do before I'll bother with it. Maybe gc.com has it's limits, but it's also got caches I can go find (some within a few hundred yards of my house).

I found much better pickings here in Ohio: A total of 26 caches are listed on OpenCaching.com (none within about 50 miles of home, however).

 

I also checked gc.com for caches I haven't yet found in Ohio: 16,337.

 

I think I'll stick with gc.com for now.

 

--Larry

[+TotemLake]

Well if Garmin wants people with other manufactures devices to convert then they should make their site/send-to support all devices. That would be a smart move.

 

I don't mind their site. I'll try it. Which ever works better I'll continue to use. Hopefully they won't have a limit to the number-per-time-period you can run PQs. I can only run My Finds once ever 3 days? What's up with that?

Its a big improvement over what it originally was.... every 7 days.

 

And it was 7 days not all that long ago, wasn't it?

Beginning of last month I think. I was surprised to read it was at 3 days now. I didn't check for differences after the last update on 11/9.

 

sorry for being off topic. carry on

Edited December 9, 2010 by TotemLake

[+HaLiJuSaPa]

Maybe if Opencaching takes off it will force GC.com to rethink bring virtuals back......or at least merge the (in my view) failed Waymarking site into the GC.com.....like maybe virts would count the way benchmarks do now.

[+gpsblake]

This is interesting. I tried to sign up for an opencaching.com account only to find out I had one already. Well, it appears that Garmin is using your Garmin Accounts and has transferred the info and password to opencaching.com

 

So if you have registered with Garmin, you might already have an opencaching.com account.

[+gpsblake]

Also appears you can transfer all your finds and all your caches right into opencaching.com via gpx file

 

From opencaching.com

 

You can import a gpx file that lists geocaches you have already found. The logs you upload will automatically be added to your profile and to the individual cache listings. If you have a lot of finds, the upload may take several minutes.

 

You can import a gpx file with information about geocaches you have already hidden. Only upload geocaches that you own. You will have a chance to review and change all the information before the cache is published.

 

[+BlueDeuce]

Never did see the point of logging or listing the same cache on two sites. I gonna need some sweet candy to make me do double duty.

 

How about allowing me to move a lock id to a new gps rather than forking out another 75 bucks.

[+myotis]

I am suprised Garmin has not had firmware updates to support opencaching - for example to show the awesome rating. Maybe the filters will let you select openceocaching or geocaching

[+GeekBoy.from.Illinois]

I went by and had a look, and NOT ONE SINGLE CACHE logged on their site in Alabama. Not ONE. So, me going there is pretty much pointless, despite having a Garmin unit. They got some growin' to do before I'll bother with it. Maybe gc.com has it's limits, but it's also got caches I can go find (some within a few hundred yards of my house).

...

I don't know how many times I've heard that exact statement from different people. Just think, if half the people who say it's not worth going to because no one has listed anything would just list their existing hides, then many more people wouldn't be saying the exact same thing, they would also start listing their caches too, and suddenly, the site could be serious competition for others....

[+btl-a4]

Just added my whopping 6 caches to the database. I like the little bullseye system, much better than the star system. Everyone should move over their caches. I'll be interested to see how this ends up. I would guess Garmin wanted to add a feature for geocaching and GC said no. Something like instant Wi-Fi searches. GC needs to get the idea that the data is not theirs, they are a simple database operation.

 

We make the caches, collect the coordinates, and maintain the caches. Then when I as a paying member want to use an application or tool to make caching easier they say NO it violates our Terms of Use. Hopefully Garmins' open API structure will wake them up.

[+northernpenguin]

I am suprised Garmin has not had firmware updates to support opencaching - for example to show the awesome rating. Maybe the filters will let you select openceocaching or geocaching

 

Who says they're not in the works? Garmin would not have wanted the GPS bloggers pulling headlines out of firmware releases before the Opencaching site launched.

[+dfx]

We make the caches, collect the coordinates, and maintain the caches. Then when I as a paying member want to use an application or tool to make caching easier they say NO it violates our Terms of Use. Hopefully Garmins' open API structure will wake them up.

it looks like it did already, the question is if it's gonna be enough. i don't care if the developers of c:geo, GSAK or GCzII get access to their API. I want access to the API. oc.com gives me that.

[+btl-a4]

Was just perusing the API area and found a pretty cool feature.

 

The entire OpenCaching.com database is available for download in one file. This is a much more efficient way to get the OpenCaching.com data if you plan on doing extensive work with a large portion of the data.

 

It's not available right now, but that's awesome.

[+geobernd]

I - for one - am not going to jump ship that fast... geocaching.com was there for me to get me started and to almost 3000 finds... No need for rash changes imho...

[+BlueDeuce]

Just added my whopping 6 caches to the database.

 

So what happens when you update the cache page, do you have to do both? Logs, details, maintenance, problem notification.

 

First person who beefs about FTF gets kicked off the planet.

[+mtbikernate]

So what happens when you update the cache page, do you have to do both? Logs, details, maintenance, problem notification.

 

No kidding. I, for one, will not put my existing caches on there because I don't want to have to maintain listings on multiple sites.

 

Besides, I'm bothered by Garmin's move to Bing's inferior maps. It's rumored that Microsoft forced Garmin into it through terms of some agreement they had. Bing's satellite imagery is abysmal in my area. I won't touch it. And as such, I won't touch Garmin Connect anymore, either. Apparently, I also now have to keep away from Opencaching.com, too, if I want to avoid Bing maps.

[+geodarts]

Everyone should move over their caches.

 

No. Why would I even consider doing that? Especially to a site still in beta. The mascot is annoying, the name is presumptous, the guidelines are either more restrictive (if taken literally) or a free-for-all (without a review process), I would miss html and graphics, I would get very few visitors in my area, and I am too busy developing some new earthcaches which can't be found there.

Edited December 9, 2010 by mulvaney

[+Hynr]

I'm taking bets on how long it takes for Groundspeak to shut this thread down.

[+dfx]

Besides, I'm bothered by Garmin's move to Bing's inferior maps.

it won't be long until someone creates a google maps applet that shows the oc.com caches.

[+g-o-cashers]

So what happens when you update the cache page, do you have to do both? Logs, details, maintenance, problem notification.

 

No kidding. I, for one, will not put my existing caches on there because I don't want to have to maintain listings on multiple sites.

 

Besides, I'm bothered by Garmin's move to Bing's inferior maps. It's rumored that Microsoft forced Garmin into it through terms of some agreement they had. Bing's satellite imagery is abysmal in my area. I won't touch it. And as such, I won't touch Garmin Connect anymore, either. Apparently, I also now have to keep away from Opencaching.com, too, if I want to avoid Bing maps.

 

I guess it depends on your location. Recently google's aerials around here have moved to imagery taken during the summer when the foliage is on making them a lot less useful for seeing things like trails, rocks, small bodies off water in the woods. Bing's 360 birds eye view are quite helpful and more detailed in many cases and they don't have the foliage issue.

[+dreamarcher]

I'm taking bets on how long it takes for Groundspeak to shut this thread down.

I was expecting it to be closed already.

 

Is there a forum at OC? I was browsing but couldn't find one. Maybe I'm just dumb.

[+JBnW]

Just a report from this neck o' the woods. The nearest OCs are about 2 hours away in the general vicinity of....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wait for it.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Olathe, KS!

 

Of the 11 total, looks like only 1 or 2 of them are OC originals (at least in KCKS, I don't keep close track of KCMO caches), and the others were copy-pasted over.

 

That is all.

[+dfx]

Is there a forum at OC? I was browsing but couldn't find one. Maybe I'm just dumb.

yeah, the link is at the bottom of the page.

 

i too find it quite unnatural for GS to allow the threads to remain alive. the only conclusion i can draw is that they have something up their sleeve, which doesn't necessarily have to be a good thing.

[jholly]

Is there a forum at OC? I was browsing but couldn't find one. Maybe I'm just dumb.

yeah, the link is at the bottom of the page.

 

i too find it quite unnatural for GS to allow the threads to remain alive. the only conclusion i can draw is that they have something up their sleeve, which doesn't necessarily have to be a good thing.

Well there is a major site shutdown coming the 14th. We might find something new when it comes back up.

[+The Caching Coulters]

Is anyone else seeing Mr. Irish's posts on FB? Last nights was "I'm having trouble rating the awesomeness of my day, but by default I would say it is 3.5. Hopefully tonight will be "fierce."

 

He also mentioned finishing up the forum upgrade. YAY!

[+sledgehampster]

Beginning of last month I think. I was surprised to read it was at 3 days now. I didn't check for differences after the last update on 11/9.

 

sorry for being off topic. carry on

 

TL, what would these folks have said if they saw GC.com back when WE started caching? Tons better now than what it started out as...

[+BlueDeuce]

I'm taking bets on how long it takes for Groundspeak to shut this thread down.

I was expecting it to be closed already.

 

 

Moved or merged maybe, not sure how much of this particular thread has to do with GPS and Technology.

[+mtbikernate]

Besides, I'm bothered by Garmin's move to Bing's inferior maps.

it won't be long until someone creates a google maps applet that shows the oc.com caches.

 

Such plugins exist for Google Chrome to replace Bing maps with Google's in specific cases (details view on Garmin Connect, for example).

 

I guess it depends on your location. Recently google's aerials around here have moved to imagery taken during the summer when the foliage is on making them a lot less useful for seeing things like trails, rocks, small bodies off water in the woods. Bing's 360 birds eye view are quite helpful and more detailed in many cases and they don't have the foliage issue.

 

Bing's imagery in 3rd world countries compares well to the imagery in my town (rural Texas). Google's imagery blows it away. The street maps are a wash as far as I can tell. The lack of a terrain view REALLY chaps my hide, though. I use it often, though to be completely honest, I prefer other topos to Google's terrain view when I can get it (which is pretty common, since MANY services offer at least MyTopo maps at minimum in addition - like GMap4 and GPS Visualizer).

[+Berta Nick Zoey]

In the past 24 hours the amount of caches placed world while has gone up by 25%. So at this rate, in 2 months, there will be over 2 million caches placed world wide.

[+mtbikernate]

In the past 24 hours the amount of caches placed world while has gone up by 25%. So at this rate, in 2 months, there will be over 2 million caches placed world wide.

 

But that rate won't hold. Pretty certain the rate you're seeing is coming from folks giving the site a try. It remains to be seen if any of those people will remain with the site.

[+tozainamboku]

Also appears you can transfer all your finds and all your caches right into opencaching.com via gpx file

 

From opencaching.com

 

You can import a gpx file that lists geocaches you have already found. The logs you upload will automatically be added to your profile and to the individual cache listings. If you have a lot of finds, the upload may take several minutes.

 

You can import a gpx file with information about geocaches you have already hidden. Only upload geocaches that you own. You will have a chance to review and change all the information before the cache is published.

 

My concern is that if you take the GPX file from your My Finds query (or any other PQ) and upload it to opencaching.com, you will be in violation of the Waypoint License agreement with Groundspeak.

[jholly]

Also appears you can transfer all your finds and all your caches right into opencaching.com via gpx file

 

From opencaching.com

 

You can import a gpx file that lists geocaches you have already found. The logs you upload will automatically be added to your profile and to the individual cache listings. If you have a lot of finds, the upload may take several minutes.

 

You can import a gpx file with information about geocaches you have already hidden. Only upload geocaches that you own. You will have a chance to review and change all the information before the cache is published.

 

My concern is that if you take the GPX file from your My Finds query (or any other PQ) and upload it to opencaching.com, you will be in violation of the Waypoint License agreement with Groundspeak.

probably

[+dfx]

My concern is that if you take the GPX file from your My Finds query (or any other PQ) and upload it to opencaching.com, you will be in violation of the Waypoint License agreement with Groundspeak.

but only a puritan would worry about that