How hard is it for people to understand?

[+gururyan]

Lately I have been cleaning up caches' inventories and tracking down the people responsible for trackables going off the grid. It boggles my mind how many log a grab as a "discovered" for one, maybe it needs to be broken down even simpler for these...um......people with difficulties.

[+Chokecherry]

Wow... there's no need to insult people.

 

Anyhow, traveling items and the options associated with them are not exactly the easiest things to follow. I had a great deal of difficulty trying to figure it out my first time through. There are not really good, easy to find instructions on what everything is and how it is to be used. I can't blame any newer person for having difficulties.

 

But I must just be stupid.

[+BlueDeuce]

Lately I have been cleaning up caches' inventories and tracking down the people responsible for trackables going off the grid. It boggles my mind how many log a grab as a "discovered" for one, maybe it needs to be broken down even simpler for these...um......people with difficulties.

 

Glad to see you've been clearing out caches. I wouldn't mind discussing options on how to address the issue, rather than just blaming people in a inappropriate manner.

[+gururyan]

Are you two serious?! If my post was that offensive and hateful, ban me.

Edited December 6, 2010 by gururyan

[+gururyan]

I've had a long and frustrating weekend dealing with repeated, fouled-up trackable entries and MIAs.

Edited December 6, 2010 by gururyan

[+BlueDeuce]

"How hard is it for people to understand?"

 

Apparently enough that we need to come up with a new approach.

 

Getting the word out is the biggest issue. I thought occurred to me that I'll post after a bit. It might get shot-down but communication seems to be the only real answer that I can figure out. Put in their hands seems to work best.

Edited December 6, 2010 by BlueDeuce

[+t4e]

Are you two serious?! If my post was that offensive and hateful, ban me.

 

 

oooh they are serious alright lol

 

i'm on the same boat as you, i honestly can't see which part of your post is insulting anyone nor the part where you addressed the issue in an inappropriate manner

 

and yes, i agree the instructions on how to deal with a TB should be made more explicit and clear, we all have different levels of understanding and grasping new things

[+BlueDeuce]

and yes, i agree the instructions on how to deal with a TB should be made more explicit and clear, we all have different levels of understanding and grasping new things

 

Exactly. What do think, site instructions, bug owner? Both maybe?

[+kunarion]

maybe it needs to be broken down even simpler for these...um......people with difficulties.

So true. How can someone possibly even lose track of the process? Here's what I do:

 

Do the Found It log for the cache, upload cache photos, edit photo captions. Click the bug's link (I also usually enter the tracking number to verify I'm at the correct Trackable page). Retrieve the bug from the cache by entering the tracking number to visit the TB's log page, leave a note about grabbing the bug, enter the TB number a 2nd time, select “Retrieve”, then submit (if the TB's not listed as being in that cache, add just a few additional simple steps). Click the link for the bug again, upload some photos of the bug, edit photo captions. Now visit the other cache page, do the Found It log, select the bug from the list, choose “Dropped Off”. Submit. Upload cache photos, edit photo captions. Visit the bug page, leave a note and photos I took of the bug at the drop-off cache, edit captions. I simply do that again for the other TBs I've grabbed/dropped today, and that's it! It's a no-brainer.

Edited December 6, 2010 by kunarion

[+ayrbrain]

Lately I have been cleaning up caches' inventories and tracking down the people responsible for trackables going off the grid. It boggles my mind how many log a grab as a "discovered" for one, maybe it needs to be broken down even simpler for these...um......people with difficulties.

I "grabbed" (is that the correct term?)my first TB in England on Saturday past, and I have notified the owner that I have it, as the note asked for it to travel around Scotland. We are back home today in Scotland and I am trying very hard to do this correctly. I am still learning as I am sure a lot of folk are. It can be a bit confusing but I am sure once we have put TB's back in to caches we will get the hang of this. I plan on putting it either in to my very own first cache but then again I may just put it in to another one. I asked last night on the forum for help and a very kind person answered my query. :-)

[+The Blorenges]

Whilst the process is (fairly) straightforward when a trackable has been correctly logged into a cache and is then retrieved from that cache, I think it becomes very confusing for new geocachers when they pick up a trackable, take it home... and then discover it's not showing in that cache but it's either (a.) still in the hands of some other cacher or (b.) it's showing in a completely different cache.

 

That would definitely make me go if I was new to the game.

 

Also the whole retrieved v. grabbed choice is not clear for new cachers. If you look at the instructions here http://www.geocaching.com/track/howto.aspx the word "grab" is mentioned often, so it's not surprising that many newbies go for the grab option when one of the other options would be more suitable.

 

MrsB

[+Eartha]

We can't assume that everyone out there is computer savvy, speaks English, or speaks one of the languages that www.geocaching.com offers, or reads all the information provided. Logging instructions are posted in multiple places. In the Groundspeak Knowledge Books, under Trackable information, at the top of the geocoin and travel bug forums, and in the geocaching blog. There are numerous videos out there to, put out by cachers. This information is not kept secret. Some just don't yet know how to look for it. Information was also sent out in a Groundspeak newsletter this month, which is sent to all members, so we hope that will help.

[+FloridaFour]

I agree with Eartha. "grab" and "retrieve" and "discover" being the confusing parts, especially to one whose first language is not English. I'd prefer something like "took from cache", "saw in cache or somewhere else", "took from a different cache than was listed". Exact phrases instead of lingo that has to be learned.

 

I still have a TB out there that has not been "retrieved", but the very new cacher just posted a note. That person has already set up a few caches of their own...soon they will be dealing with TBs and coins, hopefully they understand by then.

[+BlueDeuce]

Just to get this out of the way early, understanding English ain't got carp to do with the confusion about Retrieve, Grab, Discover.

 

 

Edit: missing comma

Edited December 7, 2010 by BlueDeuce

[+TerraViators]

Wow... there's no need to insult people.

 

Anyhow, traveling items and the options associated with them are not exactly the easiest things to follow. I had a great deal of difficulty trying to figure it out my first time through. There are not really good, easy to find instructions on what everything is and how it is to be used. I can't blame any newer person for having difficulties.

 

But I must just be stupid.

Really? Retrieve it or discover it. Not that hard to understand.

[+BlueDeuce]

Really? Retrieve it or discover it. Not that hard to understand.

 

Nevermind, sorry that I responded to a troll.

Edited December 7, 2010 by BlueDeuce

[+gururyan]

Really? Retrieve it or discover it. Not that hard to understand.

 

Nevermind, sorry that I responded to a troll.

What on Earth? You think I was being insulting in my OP and now you post snide name calling in your own post? Whatever.

 

Anyway, so since some people can't understand the system as is, a change in lingo or possible icons depicting the actions could help. My concern is not on the newbies, but the owners of the trackables that deserve their property to be handled appropriately. If we have to dumb it down to an elementary level with pictures and simple words so that confused people can understand, so be it. Maybe even the trackable should read: If you find this at all confusing, leave in cache. Do not take. Or better yet: If you have not passed the Geocacher's Competency Test and do not have at least 75 finds, you are not permitted to partake in the moving of trackables.

[+Eartha]

Or, we could just release them and hope for the best, and think of our travel bugs as kind of a message in a bottle. You never know how long it will take, or how far it will go, and can be surprised when you hear from it, because we are dealing with humans, and we are not infallible.

[+lifechooser]

"Retrieve" is obvious, but to me "Discover" doesn't have any implications of taking or leaving. Likewise "Grab" doesn't sound particularly different to "Retrieve".

[+Ddraig Ddu]

I used to log them wrong for the first couple, however when I noticed that they weren't appearing in my inventory i double checked.

 

Perhaps the first time a cacher finds a cache with a tb listed as in it, perhaps it should go to a webpage asking - did you collect the tb in the cache? - just so they can shown what a tb is, so they don't keep it as a swap, etc...

 

...doable?

[+Eartha]

Knowledge books.

How to log, in the forums.

Trackable info on the website.

Sent out to everyone, 11/24/10 newsletter.

From the Latitude47 geocaching blog

 

I really think the word is out there, and not so hard to find.

 

How about we all teach people when we take them caching for the first time? And tell them it's up to them to teach others, and so on, and so on....

[+Indotguy]

Granted, a new cacher could not instinctively know what to do with a Traveler. However, if you're interested enough to grab one the logical thing to do would be to go on the website or forum, do a bit of reading and find out what it is and how to deal with it. On the other hand, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to properly close the lid on a cache container or put it back where they found it but apparently these are other concepts that some folks do not understand.

[+BlueDeuce]

Releasing a bug with an attached tag giving basic logging instructions and direction on there to find more detailed information can help keep your bug in circulation.

 

Put the information in their hands is my method.

Edited December 8, 2010 by BlueDeuce

[+d+n.s]

When we found our first coin, we had no real issues in figuring out what to do with it. We thought the process is actually quite intuitive, but clearly we're in the minority.

We have put out two bugs, both with info tags, and one was logged incorrectly (meaning: not at all) but a quick polite e-mail to the holder fixed the issue in a timely manner.

 

I think different people understand things in different ways and the instructions are currently geared towards only one or two "types" of person right now.

Sadly, I have no good idea on how to improve it.

 

I think shipping tags with some sort of explicit/eye catching instructional laminent would be awesome.

 

I could also see rewarding your first properly moved TB (and perhaps your 15th too to encourage the habit) with some sort of souveneir might encourage a different kind of person than myself (the sort of person who completes every single aspect of a videogame for an acheivement and virtual brownie points for example. An "about the numbers" type)

 

An interactive walkthrough of the process might encourage another type of cacher. Heck, an interactive tutorial game on the site that you play through and learn practice the entire process of finding a cache, logging a cache, logging a bug and other stuff might appeal to some who need to "do it" once as they learn. Signal could even be the star!

 

Perhaps some of us should start embedding links to an instructional video in all of our caches.

 

I don't think there is a silver bullet. You need to cover it from as many angles as possible without making it seems intimidating, because people learn in a variety of ways and moving a TB is an unselfish act so motivation lower to log it properly and/or research it. As other listing site proliferate, the situation will just get worse.

That said, I think the current situation can be improved greatly.

Edited December 20, 2010 by d+n.s

[+eddyandlinder]

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I sure hate to admit that I am one of the Newbies(Started July 2010) that did not log my first trackable (only one found) CORRECTLY!! Thanks to experienced cachers it now has been pointed out to me. I did read the information on Trackables but still made a mistake. Used discovered instead of Grab. It made sense to me at the time that discovered seemed to fit what they wanted (No I did not go back and check). Now I have encountered another Newbie problem. I would like to correct the information and have it show that it was taken from the cache and in the time since original find I have misplaced the trackable number. I have found no place that I can contact to retrieve the trackable number to correct the mistake. This is a very frustrating thing for me as I want to get it corrected.

I do agree that the information that is there can easily be misinterpreted and mistakes made.

Where do I go for help on this.

[+BlueDeuce]

I sure hate to admit that I am one of the Newbies(Started July 2010) that did not log my first trackable (only one found) CORRECTLY!! Thanks to experienced cachers it now has been pointed out to me. I did read the information on Trackables but still made a mistake. Used discovered instead of Grab. It made sense to me at the time that discovered seemed to fit what they wanted (No I did not go back and check). Now I have encountered another Newbie problem. I would like to correct the information and have it show that it was taken from the cache and in the time since original find I have misplaced the trackable number. I have found no place that I can contact to retrieve the trackable number to correct the mistake. This is a very frustrating thing for me as I want to get it corrected.

I do agree that the information that is there can easily be misinterpreted and mistakes made.

Where do I go for help on this.

 

Where is the bug at at this moment? You can contact the bug owner and have them provide the tracking number, but I would like to verify it isn't currently in someone else's hands. Could you provide a link to the bug?

Edited December 21, 2010 by BlueDeuce

[+Highpointer]

Lately I have been cleaning up caches' inventories and tracking down the people responsible for trackables going off the grid. It boggles my mind how many log a grab as a "discovered" for one, maybe it needs to be broken down even simpler for these...um......people with difficulties.

The "discovered" option should be eliminated for travel bugs and geocoins. The "discovered" option makes the process of logging travel bugs and geocoins more confusing, and it reduces travel bug movements by allowing a way for people to earn credit for a trackable "find" without actually taking and moving the item. Thus, the "discovered" option encourages more geocachers ignore trackable items and to let trackable items languish in caches, increasing the risk of such items becoming lost.

 

Geocachers should pick up and move all trackable items that they see in a cache, and not let them languish in the cache.