People forget to use stealth, chased away by secruity.

[+Coldgears]

 

I met the CO at a 10/10/10 event. He seemed friendly enough to me, when I was just starting out.

 

 

Actually thinking back, it was not on 10/10, it was back in the summer. Just had to set the record straight.

He probably was. I never said he wasn't friendly.

[+BlueDeuce]

While I agree that the cache owner sure does seem a bit angsty, I gotta side with this comment he made:

"What that said maybe since this cache needed to be archived for permission then ALL Parking Garage and Shopping Mall hides need to delt with in the same manner without exception.. "

 

+1

 

Unless of course they are placed with permission and security personal are aware of the cache.

[+JohnnyVegas]

While I agree that the cache owner sure does seem a bit angsty, I gotta side with this comment he made:

"What that said maybe since this cache needed to be archived for permission then ALL Parking Garage and Shopping Mall hides need to delt with in the same manner without exception.. "

 

+1

 

Unless of course they are placed with permission and security personal are aware of the cache.

In some cases the permission for a cache does not make throught the ranks of security. I was chased off some mall property for looking for a cache by a security gaurd. It was later learned that this gaurd was not told the cache was there by the person that gave permission.

As far as the Use stealth term is concerned. I have found many cache that have had Use Stealth included on the page. As was posted earlier in most of these cases it is used becasue the cache is place in a lame location. Like on a news paper maching next to the door of a market. In a bench by the door to a market. I have gotten to the point that if I drive to a location to find a cache and it is one of these lame hides I am going to look for, I really do not care about the stealth recomendation.

[+John in Valley Forge]

 

I met the CO at a 10/10/10 event. He seemed friendly enough to me, when I was just starting out.

 

 

Actually thinking back, it was not on 10/10, it was back in the summer. Just had to set the record straight.

He probably was. I never said he wasn't friendly.

 

Then I have absolutely what to make of the thing you didn't mean to post. It had seemed to have some sort of negative connotation to it.

[+BlueDeuce]

 

In some cases the permission for a cache does not make through the ranks of security. I was chased off some mall property for looking for a cache by a security guard. <snip>

 

I am not surprised. Kind of like when the neighbor of a suburban cache wonders why you are poking around someone's flower bed.

 

One time while exiting a mall a security guard stopped me with a "Ah, excuse me sir". I thought 'great why am I being stopped now?'. Turns out he was a local cacher and noticed my local geo-club t shirt. Later he had to be the guy to post on a cache page that the cache placed on mall property wasn't approved by management. He got flak for being the messenger . Not fun when you just want to be part of the community and enjoy caching.

[+Sagefox]

This is ridiculus.

 

The CO is highly experienced and has certainly had visits from security folks during some of his cache searches. And he is experienced enough to know that he doesn't need to raise a ruckus over this issue.

 

Its nice to see that stealth has gone the way of the Edsel...

 

And he is certainly experienced enough to know that stealth is simply not guaranteed when you put a cache in a highly public area. When I see "stealth required" on a cache page I usually roll my eyes because the hide often is simply too public to be stealthy.

 

It is the COs problem here, not the finders.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Yeah. There was one like this nearby. Security cameras. Guard shack. Back parking lot of a warehouse. It lasted two days, until security guards asked the geocachers to leave. Mot realizing it was archived, I took a look at it, and decided I was not interested in hunting for the cache.

[vagabond]

"Stealth required" is often a euphemism for "there ought not to be a cache here, but I put one here anyway."

You have never had someone approach you and ask what you are doing?

 

Personally, I think that it was more a case of people not adequately explaining themselves when confronted. At times when there is a concern, letting the people in charge of our safety (who aren't necessarily the permision givers) have some more info, can help the whole situation.

 

Yes, I have people approach me when I'm geocaching. I've been approached by the police twice, and security guards at least three times. I speak to them politely and assertively. I don't act shifty or try to feign stealth. It's a game, not a stake-out.

 

I'm in my 8th year of caching and I've NEVER been approached by cop. I got looked at once but I must emit a signal that says "Nothing to hide. He's a good guy." Actually, it probably comes from the fact that I train with and work closely with Law Enforcement and that social mystery about cops is not there for me.

 

 

Like the Snoogs I've been caching for awhile (almost 10 years) I've been stopped 1 time by an LEO and the only thing he really wanted to know was what was in the pill bottle, he was disappointed when he found no drugs, also 1 security guard, and he and the owner of the property asked me to have the cache removed

[+Sol seaker]

Stealth is about not compromising the cache location so that someone doesn't innocently remove a container or help themselves to some nice swag. It does not mean hiding our activity from people who might decide that we are trespassing.

 

And in this case: "Please be stealthy so that my hides' lack of permission doesn't get brought to the attention of the reviewer and get archived." I'm all too happy to do my best to not give away a caches location but I certainly don't want to enable a CO to skirt one of the most basic hiding guidelines we have.

 

+10

 

He got mad at the cachers because his not following the rules was found out.

So of course it is the cachers fault it got archived, not his own for placing a cache against the guidelines.

 

This guy really is a winner. Has two finds on one of his own caches and then one find on the rest??

You've got to wonder about his 6,000 other finds. He obviously has no concern for guidelines or morals.

 

But, what do I care? Just glad he's not in my area.

[+narcissa]

He obviously has no concern for guidelines or morals.

 

Guidelines, okay. Morals? I think it's stretching it to claim that anything this guy has done is immoral.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I will admit to having found a few caches by the CO in question. Standard cache and dash trash. But there's a lot of that around.

Morals? Hmm... Deliberately settin a cache on private property with surveillance cameras and security guards who ask the cachers to leave? I'd say that there's a lack of morals in setting up geocchers for that.

[+lunahunt]

When in doubt, put on a hard hat and a safety jacket. The best way to hide something is in full view.

 

Private property is private unless you are the Federal Government who seizes as it wills. Private is private at least for the moment. To hide a cache w/o permission on private property is in bad taste and puts fellow gamers (cachers) in a compromising position esp if the posting of private property is not obvious.

[+FireRef]

While I agree that the cache owner sure does seem a bit angsty, I gotta side with this comment he made:

"What that said maybe since this cache needed to be archived for permission then ALL Parking Garage and Shopping Mall hides need to delt with in the same manner without exception.. "

 

This was the point I was trying to make a lot of times in the past.

 

We have rules, I mean guidelines, which are open to interpretation only by those in charge.

 

We have a lot of people who choose to ignore or interpret the guidelines differently from those in charge of this website.

 

We have a lot of caches out there that don't meet the guidelines.

 

However, since it is only addressed when someone complains, many hides are out there that don't have permission. Many hides are out there that are not hidden correctly if you interpret the rules the way the website chooses to.

 

One of the best caches I found early on was a bison tube hidden in a hollowed out part of a tree - done in a way that wouldn't harm the tree long term (I am a biology major), and with magnets on the bark that covered the hole and sunk into the tree so the bark stayed there. I thought it was amazingly creative. By the rules here, it isn't allowed. I think that is a loss for the game.

 

But the biggest problem is the lack of consistency in the enforcement of the guidelines. I know life isn't fair. However, when you see people with hides who are clearly skirting the rules, but it is very poorly looked on to blow the whistle on these ("cache police" are always looked down on, except for by a very few), it causes a lot of problems. Therefore, the caches continue to be put out, continue to be approved, and continue to be found by people who get a view of the game far different from what the actual guidelines/rules want us to believe.

 

Compound this by the general excuse that no cache placement should be considered a prerequisite that that kind of hide is allowed, and we get mixed messages. This person did it, why can't I? This person put one out here, why can't I. This location had a cache for years just like the one I want to hide, why is mine getting rejected. Because they can.

 

I think this is one of the biggest problems with this game. Not necessarily this website - they choose their rules and we're stuck following them if we want to list things here. I just wish that they were more consistently and regularly enforced. It would make the rules/guidelines a lot easier to follow and know what we can and can't do.

[+popokiiti]

The cache owner seems to have a habit of blaming geocachers:

 

GC1BPRM

GC1BTQ3

GC19PGJ

At least he found these 3 caches and got the smilies to prove it!

[+narcissa]

I will admit to having found a few caches by the CO in question. Standard cache and dash trash. But there's a lot of that around.

Morals? Hmm... Deliberately settin a cache on private property with surveillance cameras and security guards who ask the cachers to leave? I'd say that there's a lack of morals in setting up geocchers for that.

 

Was it his intention to get people into trouble? It doesn't appear as though it was.

 

You can argue that the caches were placed in a careless, irresponsible fashion, but attributing this to "morality" is an overstep in judgment.

 

As far as geocaching is concerned, placing caches for the enjoyment of others is well within the "morals" of this game and its community. There is no evidence that there was any other intention.

[+John in Valley Forge]

I will admit to having found a few caches by the CO in question. Standard cache and dash trash. But there's a lot of that around.

Morals? Hmm... Deliberately settin a cache on private property with surveillance cameras and security guards who ask the cachers to leave? I'd say that there's a lack of morals in setting up geocchers for that.

 

Was it his intention to get people into trouble? It doesn't appear as though it was.

 

You can argue that the caches were placed in a careless, irresponsible fashion, but attributing this to "morality" is an overstep in judgment.

 

As far as geocaching is concerned, placing caches for the enjoyment of others is well within the "morals" of this game and its community. There is no evidence that there was any other intention.

 

It's a shame that the CO does not frequent the forums. His viewpoint would be appreciated. I think he is too busy caching and organizing events (he has one coming up next week that I may be attending).

I've found a few of his, but DNF'd many more cause they tend to be well hidden and not all just LPCs and micros (at least the ones I've looked for).

[+BlueDeuce]

It's a shame that the CO does not frequent the forums. His viewpoint would be appreciated.

 

Really? He wouldn't receive a full-on assault?

[+narcissa]

 

It's a shame that the CO does not frequent the forums. His viewpoint would be appreciated. I think he is too busy caching and organizing events (he has one coming up next week that I may be attending).

I've found a few of his, but DNF'd many more cause they tend to be well hidden and not all just LPCs and micros (at least the ones I've looked for).

 

He seems a little quick to anger, and it's obviously a little irrational to punish future finders because previous finders didn't pay attention to his cache page. None of this should bring his morality into question. Neither does posting a found log on his own caches. It's a little silly, but it's not against the rules and it doesn't hurt anybody.

 

There are cachers out there doing pretty unethical things (within the context of the game, that is), but this guy isn't one of them. He's just a little oversensitive and not so good at following the guidelines.

[+John in Valley Forge]

It's a shame that the CO does not frequent the forums. His viewpoint would be appreciated.

 

Really? He wouldn't receive a full-on assault?

 

He might, but I'd rather you talk about me in front of me rather than behind my back. He might feel the same way. I am beginning to dislike the topics where a particular cacher is singled out by an OP and talked about to the nth degree without the cacher's knowledge or input.

[Mr.Yuck]

It's a shame that the CO does not frequent the forums. His viewpoint would be appreciated.

 

Really? He wouldn't receive a full-on assault?

 

He might, but I'd rather you talk about me in front of me rather than behind my back. He might feel the same way. I am beginning to dislike the topics where a particular cacher is singled out by an OP and talked about to the nth degree without the cacher's knowledge or input.

 

I agree totally. And of course I really lost interest after the "email me if you want details" post.

 

But let me tell you, I'd consider this guy to have an attitude already, with the "People didn't use stealth and ruined my cache and if my cache placed in a mall parking garage without permission has to be archived, every mall parking lot cache in the world without permission needs to be archived" deal going on. If he came here, it wouldn't be pretty.

 

So I'd vote for Coldgears asking for the thread to be closed. Which is how they do it around here, he has to ask himself.

[+roziecakes]

The funny part is people actually believe they are being stealthy while nonchalantly searching trees, bushes, light poles, guard rails etc.Take my word for it, it looks suspicious unless onlookers think you are insane and escaped the institution. I know My Cloak of Invisibility has never worked properly.

 

That's why I love caching in Portland. Don't shave for a few days, then go find the urban hide while wearing muddy hiking clothes that haven't been washed. Everyone assumes you're just another homeless person.

 

 

I assume this would also be the case for Eugene. People doing much stranger things that poking around in trees and such are seen every day around here!

 

One time when I was caching at night I saw a man sitting on a swingset singing 'Born To Be Wild' so loudly that I'm sure had there been anyone else around they would have looked straight at him first, rather than a nondescript looking lady in sweat pants reaching under a bench.

[Mushtang]

Years ago I was doing a cache in a mall parking lot. It was stuck to a big green transformer that was in a bed of bushes and stuff. I found the cache, walked to my car to sign it (forgot my pen I guess) and a security guard on the top floor of a nearby parking deck yelled at me to stay where I was and he took off running.

 

Not being in the mood to deal with him I decided to hurry and put the cache back in place and get the heck out of there. Just as I was pulling away here comes the security officer in his truck, and he's in a hurry. So he chased me out of the mall parking lot but he stopped as I pulled onto the main highway.

 

Looking back I realize I totally should have stayed there, told him about the cache, etc. But it was a lot more fun running away. I can't explain why.

[+John in Valley Forge]

And of course I really lost interest after the "email me if you want details" post.

 

 

Yes, except that I really gained interest after he posted and deleted that.

[+briansnat]

It's a shame that the CO does not frequent the forums. His viewpoint would be appreciated.

 

Really? He wouldn't receive a full-on assault?

 

He might, but I'd rather you talk about me in front of me rather than behind my back. He might feel the same way. I am beginning to dislike the topics where a particular cacher is singled out by an OP and talked about to the nth degree without the cacher's knowledge or input.

 

Don't assume that someone hasn't e-mailed him a link to this thread.

[+NanCycle]

The funny part is people actually believe they are being stealthy while nonchalantly searching trees, bushes, light poles, guard rails etc.Take my word for it, it looks suspicious unless onlookers think you are insane and escaped the institution. I know My Cloak of Invisibility has never worked properly.

 

That's why I love caching in Portland. Don't shave for a few days, then go find the urban hide while wearing muddy hiking clothes that haven't been washed. Everyone assumes you're just another homeless person.

 

 

I assume this would also be the case for Eugene. People doing much stranger things that poking around in trees and such are seen every day around here!

 

One time when I was caching at night I saw a man sitting on a swingset singing 'Born To Be Wild' so loudly that I'm sure had there been anyone else around they would have looked straight at him first, rather than a nondescript looking lady in sweat pants reaching under a bench.

 

Ha! You need to bring him along with you as a decoy.

[+DragonsWest]

It's a shame that the CO does not frequent the forums. His viewpoint would be appreciated.

 

Really? He wouldn't receive a full-on assault?

 

He might, but I'd rather you talk about me in front of me rather than behind my back. He might feel the same way. I am beginning to dislike the topics where a particular cacher is singled out by an OP and talked about to the nth degree without the cacher's knowledge or input.

 

Don't assume that someone hasn't e-mailed him a link to this thread.

 

There are some people who don't do forums, don't even like them, without going through the whole gamut of being on a forum and getting jaded and obnoxious and getting the boot, they just never have an interest in the first place.

 

Then there are those who think forums are great places to exchange ideas and learn from others.

 

IMHO when I say I can't learn anything from anyone anymore, that's my problem, not the fault of forums in general.

 

Looks like the CO specializes in finds, rather than hides - not unusual as the game lends itself well to people who want a solo activity.

[AZcachemeister]

While I agree that the cache owner sure does seem a bit angsty, I gotta side with this comment he made:

"What that said maybe since this cache needed to be archived for permission then ALL Parking Garage and Shopping Mall hides need to delt with in the same manner without exception.. "

 

This was the point I was trying to make a lot of times in the past.

 

We have rules, I mean guidelines, which are open to interpretation only by those in charge.

 

We have a lot of people who choose to ignore or interpret the guidelines differently from those in charge of this website.

 

We have a lot of caches out there that don't meet the guidelines.

 

However, since it is only addressed when someone complains, many hides are out there that don't have permission. Many hides are out there that are not hidden correctly if you interpret the rules the way the website chooses to.

 

One of the best caches I found early on was a bison tube hidden in a hollowed out part of a tree - done in a way that wouldn't harm the tree long term (I am a biology major), and with magnets on the bark that covered the hole and sunk into the tree so the bark stayed there. I thought it was amazingly creative. By the rules here, it isn't allowed. I think that is a loss for the game.

 

But the biggest problem is the lack of consistency in the enforcement of the guidelines. I know life isn't fair. However, when you see people with hides who are clearly skirting the rules, but it is very poorly looked on to blow the whistle on these

 

("cache police" are always looked down on, except for by a very few,

 

it causes a lot of problems. Therefore, the caches continue to be put out, continue to be approved, and continue to be found by people who get a view of the game far different from what the actual guidelines/rules want us to believe.

 

Compound this by the general excuse that no cache placement should be considered a prerequisite that that kind of hide is allowed, and we get mixed messages. This person did it, why can't I? This person put one out here, why can't I. This location had a cache for years just like the one I want to hide, why is mine getting rejected. Because they can.

 

I think this is one of the biggest problems with this game. Not necessarily this website - they choose their rules and we're stuck following them if we want to list things here. I just wish that they were more consistently and regularly enforced. It would make the rules/guidelines a lot easier to follow and know what we can and can't do.

 

Well, I (for one) would like to thank all those 'cache police' who did blow the whistle and get caches such as the one being discussed archived thereby saving me from the possibility of being hasseled by rent-a-cop security persons.

[+FireRef]

A rent a cop who has no authority if you are not doing anything illegal?

 

Seriously - every time there is a thread here about cache police, people get irritated.

 

If it is a serious guidelines violation, we are expected to turn it in with a NA log. Some people will - some won't.

 

Some of the best caches I have done (as in found) may have had guidelines violations involved.

Edited December 4, 2010 by FireRef

[Clan Riffster]

If it is a serious guidelines violation, we are expected to turn it in with a NA log. Some people will - some won't.

I prefer a slight variation, which accomplishes the same goal:

If it is a serious guidelines violation, we are expected to report it to a Reviewer.

Naturally, that's just my own rule, I use for caches that I find.

[Andronicus]

Years ago I was doing a cache in a mall parking lot. It was stuck to a big green transformer that was in a bed of bushes and stuff. I found the cache, walked to my car to sign it (forgot my pen I guess) and a security guard on the top floor of a nearby parking deck yelled at me to stay where I was and he took off running.

 

Not being in the mood to deal with him I decided to hurry and put the cache back in place and get the heck out of there. Just as I was pulling away here comes the security officer in his truck, and he's in a hurry. So he chased me out of the mall parking lot but he stopped as I pulled onto the main highway.

 

Looking back I realize I totally should have stayed there, told him about the cache, etc. But it was a lot more fun running away. I can't explain why.

Funny how that is.

 

...One time when I was caching at night I saw a man sitting on a swingset singing 'Born To Be Wild' so loudly that I'm sure had there been anyone else around they would have looked straight at him first, rather than a nondescript looking lady in sweat pants reaching under a bench.

 

Ha! You need to bring him along with you as a decoy.

I wonder if you sang songs loudly all the time if that would keep the muggles at a distance.

[+DragonsWest]

Years ago I was doing a cache in a mall parking lot. It was stuck to a big green transformer that was in a bed of bushes and stuff. I found the cache, walked to my car to sign it (forgot my pen I guess) and a security guard on the top floor of a nearby parking deck yelled at me to stay where I was and he took off running.

 

Not being in the mood to deal with him I decided to hurry and put the cache back in place and get the heck out of there. Just as I was pulling away here comes the security officer in his truck, and he's in a hurry. So he chased me out of the mall parking lot but he stopped as I pulled onto the main highway.

 

Looking back I realize I totally should have stayed there, told him about the cache, etc. But it was a lot more fun running away. I can't explain why.

Funny how that is.

 

...One time when I was caching at night I saw a man sitting on a swingset singing 'Born To Be Wild' so loudly that I'm sure had there been anyone else around they would have looked straight at him first, rather than a nondescript looking lady in sweat pants reaching under a bench.

 

Ha! You need to bring him along with you as a decoy.

I wonder if you sang songs loudly all the time if that would keep the muggles at a distance.

 

1. Grow beard (optional for ladies)

2. Wear beat up, ragged, mis-matched clothing

3. Mess up your hair, use some mousse or bacon fat, whichever is available

4. Carry a large bag filled with whatever junk you can find (and won't miss if you lose it.)

5. Mutter to yourself constantly, occasionally cough loudly or shout "HA! YES! THAT'S HOW IT IS! I TOLD THEM!"

 

You'll likely be ignored, even actively avoided.

Edited December 4, 2010 by DragonsWest

[Clan Riffster]

You'll likely be ignored, even actively avoided.

Dribble some split pea soup down the front of your shirt/pant and "likely" gets promoted to "surely".

[+sbell111]

You'll likely be ignored, even actively avoided.

Dribble some split pea soup down the front of your shirt/pant and "likely" gets promoted to "surely".

Around here, you'd likely attract a cop

[GOF and Bacall]

You'll likely be ignored, even actively avoided.

Dribble some split pea soup down the front of your shirt/pant and "likely" gets promoted to "surely".

Around here, you'd likely attract a cop

Or a 72 hour vacation. For "evaluation".

[+Ambrosia]

5. Mutter to yourself constantly, occasionally cough loudly or shout "HA! YES! THAT'S HOW IT IS! I TOLD THEM!"

 

[+JL_HSTRE]

I recently found a cache with the usual 'use stealth' plea in the write-up, but I had to climb partway up the sculpture (in a civic-center garden) to make the grab! How ANYONE can be 'stealthy' in those conditions I'll never know.

 

Climbing a sculpture in a civic center garden? I hope you filed a NA log.

[savant9]

The cache owner seems to have a habit of blaming geocachers:

 

GC1BPRM

GC1BTQ3

GC19PGJ

At least he found these 3 caches and got the smilies to prove it!

 

Actually if you read the logs, those three hides have netted him 5 finds. The first one listed there has 3 finds on it by the CO.

[+The Jester]

I wonder if you sang songs loudly all the time if that would keep the muggles at a distance.

In my case, YES! I can't carry a tune long enough to take it outside and bury it. Of course, in certain areas I'd probably end up in a barber shop quartet (each in his own key and song) - everyone else, though, would be making tracks far far away.

[+GrizzFlyer]

I see a lot of cachers pretty much ignore the "stealth" on these usually-lame caches. I don't do stealth. Find them and grab them up, sign log, put 'em back, let lots of people look on if its in that public a location. If it gets muggled after I leave, too bad.

[+sbell111]

I see a lot of cachers pretty much ignore the "stealth" on these usually-lame caches. I don't do stealth. Find them and grab them up, sign log, put 'em back, let lots of people look on if its in that public a location. If it gets muggled after I leave, too bad.

Sad (and rude)

[+narcissa]

I see a lot of cachers pretty much ignore the "stealth" on these usually-lame caches. I don't do stealth. Find them and grab them up, sign log, put 'em back, let lots of people look on if its in that public a location. If it gets muggled after I leave, too bad.

Sad (and rude)

 

Yes, it is sad and rude to place a micro in a high traffic area and then use "stealth" as an excuse for such a poor placement.

[+sbell111]

I see a lot of cachers pretty much ignore the "stealth" on these usually-lame caches. I don't do stealth. Find them and grab them up, sign log, put 'em back, let lots of people look on if its in that public a location. If it gets muggled after I leave, too bad.

Sad (and rude)

 

Yes, it is sad and rude to place a micro in a high traffic area and then use "stealth" as an excuse for such a poor placement.

It is sad and rude to intentionally act in a manner that results in a cache being mugged and then brag about your boorish behavior.

 

If you dislike caches that require stealth, skip them. Don't ruin them for everyone else.

[+kpanko]

I never understood the idea that a "muggle" will "muggle" (steal) a cache. Why would anyone take a random plastic container with a list of names in it?

 

I would think they would just leave it be.

[+kpanko]

...

Edited December 14, 2010 by kpanko

[+niraD]

I never understood the idea that a "muggle" will "muggle" (steal) a cache. Why would anyone take a random plastic container with a list of names in it?

Probably for the same reason they scratch obscenities and profanities on bathroom walls, steal street signs, and take other kids' lunch money...

[Clan Riffster]

I never understood the idea that a "muggle" will "muggle" (steal) a cache.

Perhaps, from their perspective, at that time, it's not stealing?

While I don't claim to know why folks do what they do, I feel certain that caches do, quite often, get removed by folks who are not familiar with this game. In speaking with muggles about the game, a common question that comes up is, "When I find the cache, I get to keep it?". I find myself having to correct that misconception more often than I would like.

[+addisonbr]

I never understood the idea that a "muggle" will "muggle" (steal) a cache.

Perhaps, from their perspective, at that time, it's not stealing?

I can absolutely validate CR's statement, speaking from my own, recent experience.

 

I have a cache with a physical clue in a particular, specific location. I started getting reports that folks were having trouble at the clue's location, so I paid a visit and discovered that my (magnetic) clue was no longer there. There was another very random magnet in the location, and it was causing confusion - my seekers were finding this piece of New York detritus and not knowing what to do. So I removed the random garbage / crap thing, put another one of my clues in place, and went happily about my day filled with smug satisfaction that I maintain my caches like a good community member.

 

A week or so later, I continued getting the same reports - people couldn't figure out my clue. I paid another visit, and my clue was gone again - with another of those weird magnets in its place. By this time, I've now been motivated enough to examine it more closely, and I can tell that it's hand-made.

 

Only then does it occur to me that I may have stumbled into someone else's game. While I thought I was tidying up an area, I was probably stealing someone else's game piece, for a game I didn't understand. Someone else was probably doing the same thing to me. I brought the original magnet back, put it in place along with a note saying "I took this by mistake, and didn't know it belonged here - hopefully both of our magnets can co-exist". The next time I checked, the note was gone but both magnets were in place.

 

So I can say with a lot of confidence that there is likely no ill intent in at least some of the mugglings. I'm an active player in a game that suffers this problem, and I still (probably) did it to someone else when I didn't fully understand what it was I had in my hand.

[Andronicus]

I never understood the idea that a "muggle" will "muggle" (steal) a cache.

Perhaps, from their perspective, at that time, it's not stealing?

I can absolutely validate CR's statement, speaking from my own, recent experience.

 

I have a cache with a physical clue in a particular, specific location. I started getting reports that folks were having trouble at the clue's location, so I paid a visit and discovered that my (magnetic) clue was no longer there. There was another very random magnet in the location, and it was causing confusion - my seekers were finding this piece of New York detritus and not knowing what to do. So I removed the random garbage / crap thing, put another one of my clues in place, and went happily about my day filled with smug satisfaction that I maintain my caches like a good community member.

 

A week or so later, I continued getting the same reports - people couldn't figure out my clue. I paid another visit, and my clue was gone again - with another of those weird magnets in its place. By this time, I've now been motivated enough to examine it more closely, and I can tell that it's hand-made.

 

Only then does it occur to me that I may have stumbled into someone else's game. While I thought I was tidying up an area, I was probably stealing someone else's game piece, for a game I didn't understand. Someone else was probably doing the same thing to me. I brought the original magnet back, put it in place along with a note saying "I took this by mistake, and didn't know it belonged here - hopefully both of our magnets can co-exist". The next time I checked, the note was gone but both magnets were in place.

 

So I can say with a lot of confidence that there is likely no ill intent in at least some of the mugglings. I'm an active player in a game that suffers this problem, and I still (probably) did it to someone else when I didn't fully understand what it was I had in my hand.

Did you ever figure out what that game was? Sounds fun!

[+addisonbr]

Did you ever figure out what that game was? Sounds fun!

No, I never did... The magnets were hand-made, cut to look like the head and shoulders of a man with glasses. The material was rubbery, and sometimes there was ink on them, which made me think they might possibly have been used as stamps. It wasn't stamp ink though, it was more like pen ink. I still have photos in my email from iPhone pics people sent me.

 

It made me think Letterboxing, but there was no container and no logbook, and my searches on a couple of Letterboxing web sites have turned up nothing (although I am no expert at Letterbox searches).

 

The magnet first showed up about a year ago and was there for several months. A few weeks ago I noticed it was no longer in place (mine was though) and I happened to check this morning and it wasn't back. The trail has gone a bit cold.

[+briansnat]

I never understood the idea that a "muggle" will "muggle" (steal) a cache. Why would anyone take a random plastic container with a list of names in it?

 

I would think they would just leave it be.

 

You would think, but they don't.

 

So I can say with a lot of confidence that there is likely no ill intent in at least some of the mugglings. I'm an active player in a game that suffers this problem, and I still (probably) did it to someone else when I didn't fully understand what it was I had in my hand.

 

I'd be inclined to agree with you if most caches didn't have something inside explaining exactly what it is. I've been pretty lucky overall, but I've had roughly a dozen caches go missing over the years and every one of them had a geocaching note inside. Usually two, one on the inside lid, clearly visible to anybody who opened it and one on the cover of the logbook. And my micros have a stash note right on the log. First thing you see if you unroll it.

 

Not all of those missing caches were necessarily stolen. Some may have washed away, were blown away or maybe moved by animals, but I can think of 6 right off the bat that definitely had to be stolen and nearly every one was a micro or small with nothing more than a log book and maybe a few do dads inside. Nothing that should be attractive to anybody other than a geocacher.

 

When I had an ammo box stolen I could understand that. They are useful objects, but a soda bottle preform or a beat up and camo taped 2.5 oz Lock n Lock?

Edited December 14, 2010 by briansnat