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Yearly equipment costs for a redundent system, colocation fees, consulting fees, operating software, database software, bandwidth costs, web designers, database engineers, network engineers, etc. for a site of this size would total several hundred thousand dollars a year. Then factor in the support staff (40+ total Groundspeak employees) and the costs of running an office.

 

It ain't cheap to run a site like this.

 

No, not cheap at all. That is why the site depends on support from companys like Garmin (looks like that well went dry) and PM's and volunteer reviewers and moderators.

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Sounds like that guy, "Joe" was not impressed by what he seen at the .com of that address on the TB to take the time to make a profile. He must not of really been into caching anyways if he did not take a minute to make a account. Poor guy, he don't know what he is missing. ;)

 

Joe is probably using the opencaching app and the trackable will sit in the bottom of his sock drawer, which is where he threw everything after trying out the game for the first time, and is one reason why it is a good thing that such items can be marked as "missing."

Edited by mulvaney
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Sounds like that guy, "Joe" was not impressed by what he seen at the .com of that address on the TB to take the time to make a profile. He must not of really been into caching anyways if he did not take a minute to make a account. Poor guy, he don't know what he is missing. ;)

 

Joe is probably using the opencaching app and the trackable will sit in the bottom of his sock drawer, which is where he threw everything after trying out the game for the first time, and is one reason why it is a good thing that such items can be marked as "missing."

I know that the new phone apps have attracted MANY more users to geocaching. A few of them like the hobby and keep it up. But from what I have seen it is something that some users give it a try and soon give it up. Let's face it. Most of us that support this site with our PM's are middle aged adults with childeren that are looking for outdoor activity. The younger generation is more into social networking, geocaching is just a short lived fade for them. How often do you see a boyfriend and girlfriend geocaching together and logging finds, then suddenly the account becomes inactive?

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Trackables are a different issue altogether.

 

I started geocaching right here, on this website. The first time I saw a Travel Bug I had no idea what it was. It did have a laminated card attached that said it wasn't swag. Since I didn't know what to do with it, I left it in the cache. If it hadn't had that card, I might have traded for it and kept it.

 

You can cache for years, on this website, without ever understanding travel bugs or travel coins. I eventually read up on them and decided that I would move them when I could, but I had to go out of my way to find out what they were about. I suspect most people won't bother.

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Trackables are a different issue altogether.

 

I started geocaching right here, on this website. The first time I saw a Travel Bug I had no idea what it was. It did have a laminated card attached that said it wasn't swag. Since I didn't know what to do with it, I left it in the cache. If it hadn't had that card, I might have traded for it and kept it.

 

You can cache for years, on this website, without ever understanding travel bugs or travel coins. I eventually read up on them and decided that I would move them when I could, but I had to go out of my way to find out what they were about. I suspect most people won't bother.

 

I figured out about them the first time that I came across one because it was different and exciting. I just had to log it since it says,"trackable at geocaching.com", on it.

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Sounds like that guy, "Joe" was not impressed by what he seen at the .com of that address on the TB to take the time to make a profile. He must not of really been into caching anyways if he did not take a minute to make a account. Poor guy, he don't know what he is missing. ;)

 

Joe is probably using the opencaching app and the trackable will sit in the bottom of his sock drawer, which is where he threw everything after trying out the game for the first time, and is one reason why it is a good thing that such items can be marked as "missing."

 

Yeah, probably. At least this "Joe" uses his garmin to find caches instead of a smart phone. A friend of mine did start with a smart phone and was finding geocaching caches as soon as the app was loaded. Pretty cool stuff.

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You guys sound like a bunch of letterboxers whining about that upstart Geocaching.com and all the geocachers that are stealing hand carved stamps out of letterboxes. :signalviolin:

 

That was before my time. I guess in the beginning, this place must of got a bad rap for that too. Just shows you that things settle down after the new wears off.

 

Did the hand carved stamps really get taken for swag out of the letter boxes? That stinks.

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You guys sound like a bunch of letterboxers whining about that upstart Geocaching.com and all the geocachers that are stealing hand carved stamps out of letterboxes. :signalviolin:

 

That was before my time. I guess in the beginning, this place must of got a bad rap for that too. Just shows you that things settle down after the new wears off.

 

Did the hand carved stamps really get taken for swag out of the letter boxes? That stinks.

 

Hand carved stamps get stolen out of letterbox hybrid geocaches as well. You have to make it really obvious that it's part of the cache and not a swag item.

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Could it be we're all wrong? :) That OC.com is nothing more or less than a devious, backhanded scheme to steer more people to geocaching.com? :) Imagine the disappointment, if so! It's a conspiracy! A conspiracy, I tell you!

 

In a brief visit to see what the other site was about, I saw a post on the forum for the .com version of opencaching that suggested having events at the same time and location as events listed through this web site so that they could proselyte others into becoming opencachers. Conspiracy upon conspiracy?

 

Still, perhaps the conspiracy extends beyond Jeremy or Garmin. If you opencache, you might be drawn into geocaching and you might find a letterbox hybrid and be drawn into that. Perhaps the real power driving a conspiracy is a letterboxer who lives in an underground command center deep into the Dartmoor woods, leading us all to some predetermined end that results in somebody taking over the world.

 

But (perhaps closer to the topic) is my real question: has the .com version of opencaching resulted in more Garmin sales or the expanded use of chirps? At a time when Garmin's earnings did not live up to expectations, after their own entry into the smartphone world proved to be a debacle and formally abandoned, when their apps were late in hitting the iphone market, when automotive sales are in decline -- this may be the bottom line for the future of that site.

 

I think that is called spreading the word. You know, word of mouth. OC doesn't have event caches.

 

So you did find the thread that Garmin is going under and selling to China? :blink:

 

I disagree. By using that tactic, anyone who hosts such an event is being nothing more than a leech. If the Opencaching way is so good, surely a get-together (no matter how you put it as far as cache type) can stand on its own at its own time.

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Trackables are a different issue altogether.

 

I started geocaching right here, on this website. The first time I saw a Travel Bug I had no idea what it was. It did have a laminated card attached that said it wasn't swag. Since I didn't know what to do with it, I left it in the cache. If it hadn't had that card, I might have traded for it and kept it.

 

You can cache for years, on this website, without ever understanding travel bugs or travel coins. I eventually read up on them and decided that I would move them when I could, but I had to go out of my way to find out what they were about. I suspect most people won't bother.

We discovered 2 trackables last week that had cards with their mission stated on them. We just like to discover trackables for their icons. I own one of the Cruiser Dude trackables like we discovered, mine has been MIA for a long time but I placed it's icon in a cache where the owner left the game years ago. The local geocommunity maintains the cache. I use it as a TB Graveyard because the "real TB Graveyard caches" are banned and locked.

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I figured out about them the first time that I came across one because it was different and exciting. I just had to log it since it says,"trackable at geocaching.com", on it.

 

This has been a issue with the OC site and trackables, now I think that even a newbie could figure out what that a trackable is not SWAG. But then again I have some trackables that are probally sitting in someone's sock drawer that tryed geocaching and found my trackable. Some even logged them, but after many attempts to contact the users, I just grab them and place their icon in a TB Graveyard/geocommunity cache. And this was long before OC.com came along, I collect trackables and pathtags but they never leave my posession. Well, I did have some pathtags made to drop off as SWAG. That's where my avatar comes from, and it's image is copyrighted.

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Why is cross-listing geocaches a bad thing? I don't see any issue as to what site you use for geocaching. I do like some sites better than others. But from a basic member stand point all sites are quite similar are'nt they?

 

No comment on the Travel bug thing, which I think is a very minor issue that's being blown out of proportion. But why is Cross-listing a bad thing? Two words: Navicache. OK, maybe that's one word. Navicache, established in 2002, is pretty much nothing but a cross-listed wasteland, in pretty much every place in the world where caches are listed on it. I don't have any statistics, and I think they'd be impossible to get, but I'll bet 90%-95% of Navicache's 15,000 or so active listings are cross-listed on Geocaching.com. Forget about disabled caches, the Navicache listings are littered with caches that have been long since archived on Geocaching.com, for years in many cases I have seen. There is no "plan" for doing anything about this, and even if a local "reports" these caches to Navicache HQ, HQ will then in turn email the owners to make sure the caches are still not there, before archiving them.

 

Terracaching.com forbids cross-listing (although I know of dozens within a couple hundred miles of me that are cross-listed), and Opencaching.us strongly discourages cross-listing. And even if an opencaching.us listing is cross-listed, there is a plan in place (the site is still only 5 months old). I guess I think of Opencaching.com as Navicache on steroids, as far as the cross-listing. :blink:

 

And with more money under their belt too. ;) Can't forget that.

Which may work against them as no Company wants to lose money, if Opencaching doesn't show a profit in a reasonable amount of time Garmin will drop it and do what they should have from the start, promote through Groundspeak. So far they are not looking very promising, I wouldn't get to comfortable over there just yet.

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It's just another caching site guys. Relax, no one is making you list or even seek a cache over there. It will be ok. Take the five step program. Deny, deny, deny, deny, then forget about them. Good luck with it. I know it is hard to do. :blink:

 

He's right. They'll be gone soon enough anyway.

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You guys sound like a bunch of letterboxers whining about that upstart Geocaching.com and all the geocachers that are stealing hand carved stamps out of letterboxes. :signalviolin:

 

That was before my time. I guess in the beginning, this place must of got a bad rap for that too. Just shows you that things settle down after the new wears off.

 

Did the hand carved stamps really get taken for swag out of the letter boxes? That stinks.

 

Still happens. Every year this forum gets a visit or two from an annoyed LBer who lost a stamp to a geocacher.

 

Ya know what? They have a legit beef.

 

Could it be we're all wrong? :) That OC.com is nothing more or less than a devious, backhanded scheme to steer more people to geocaching.com? :) Imagine the disappointment, if so! It's a conspiracy! A conspiracy, I tell you!

 

I think you are on to something. Garmin features OX on their website and I'm sure that new units will come with a package insert promoting OX. If not already, they will soon.

 

So all these new GPS purchasers who know nothing of geocaching will learn about it as soon as they take their unit home.

 

Now their interest is piqued. They go to OX and see a few local OX caches listed and head out to find one. Of course since roughly 98.99999612 percent of all caches on OX are simply caches imported from here they will find a cache that likely says "www.geocaching.com" on the outside (or inside, or wherever). "Hmmmm, what is this www.geocaching.com?" they will probably wonder.

 

So the come here and see this feature rich site with over a million listings. They take one look at the dearth of listings at OX and the functional mess that the site is and...well thank you Garmin for a new GC.com customer.

Edited by briansnat
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Why is cross-listing geocaches a bad thing? I don't see any issue as to what site you use for geocaching. I do like some sites better than others. But from a basic member stand point all sites are quite similar are'nt they?

 

No comment on the Travel bug thing, which I think is a very minor issue that's being blown out of proportion. But why is Cross-listing a bad thing? Two words: Navicache. OK, maybe that's one word. Navicache, established in 2002, is pretty much nothing but a cross-listed wasteland, in pretty much every place in the world where caches are listed on it. I don't have any statistics, and I think they'd be impossible to get, but I'll bet 90%-95% of Navicache's 15,000 or so active listings are cross-listed on Geocaching.com. Forget about disabled caches, the Navicache listings are littered with caches that have been long since archived on Geocaching.com, for years in many cases I have seen. There is no "plan" for doing anything about this, and even if a local "reports" these caches to Navicache HQ, HQ will then in turn email the owners to make sure the caches are still not there, before archiving them.

 

Terracaching.com forbids cross-listing (although I know of dozens within a couple hundred miles of me that are cross-listed), and Opencaching.us strongly discourages cross-listing. And even if an opencaching.us listing is cross-listed, there is a plan in place (the site is still only 5 months old). I guess I think of Opencaching.com as Navicache on steroids, as far as the cross-listing. :blink:

 

And with more money under their belt too. ;) Can't forget that.

Which may work against them as no Company wants to lose money, if Opencaching doesn't show a profit in a reasonable amount of time Garmin will drop it and do what they should have from the start, promote through Groundspeak. So far they are not looking very promising, I wouldn't get to comfortable over there just yet.

Why support this site? Basic members can still use it for free. PM's support this site. When we stop, who will pick up the tab? If I never seek a geocache again, I will still own a Garmin unit of some type.

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Why support this site? Basic members can still use it for free. PM's support this site. When we stop, who will pick up the tab? If I never seek a geocache again, I will still own a Garmin unit of some type.

 

Because it works, because I use it to find caches, because it has pocket queries and all the neat functionality it's built over the years, and because the powers that be deserve something back for all their hard work.

 

"We" won't stop supporting this site. YOU might stop, and that's your right. And you may represent a group of other malcontents, and that's okay, too. But you sure don't represent the majority of users of the site, PM and/or non-PM. Neither do I... but I'm not claiming any opinion but my own. :)

Edited by Sioneva
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Why support this site? Basic members can still use it for free. PM's support this site. When we stop, who will pick up the tab? If I never seek a geocache again, I will still own a Garmin unit of some type.

 

Because it works, because I use it to find caches, because it has pocket queries and all the neat functionality it's built over the years, and because the powers that be deserve something back for all their hard work.

 

"We" won't stop supporting this site. YOU might stop, and that's your right. And you may represent a group of other malcontents, and that's okay, too. But you sure don't represent the majority of users of the site, PM and/or non-PM. Neither do I... but I'm not claiming any opinion but my own. :)

I am a PM but I just don't use the benefits enough. I do maintain a 10% hides to finds ratio, and not lame pointless hides either. Most are historically accurate hides that have related web sites to them. This is my way of supporting this site. I really like this site, it has some great features. I don't like the way that basic members are treated by some PM's. I think that we should all be equal. Jeremy had stood behind what he said about keeping geocaching free to basic members, but it is the PM's that are trying to force basic members to upgrade to play by making their caches PMO, not TPTB.

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Another place to find the same caches you can find here, which makes it irrelevant.

Except if you are not a premium member here and therefore can not download GPX files to load into your Garmin unit, other manufacturers' units, or 3rd party geocaching apps that use GPX files. I'm convinced that Garmin started this site because they see devices that support paperless caching the future of the hobby. Garmin no doubt plans to include this feature in most or even all of their hand-held units. They wanted a site that provides this capability to everyone for free and not a site that charges $30/year for this. I think Groundspeak could put an end to Opencaching right now if they were to provide a limited GPX capability for basic members. If they did this because of Opencaching.com, Garmin would probably consider whatever they have spent so far worth it.

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Another place to find the same caches you can find here, which makes it irrelevant.

Except if you are not a premium member here and therefore can not download GPX files to load into your Garmin unit, other manufacturers' units, or 3rd party geocaching apps that use GPX files. I'm convinced that Garmin started this site because they see devices that support paperless caching the future of the hobby. Garmin no doubt plans to include this feature in most or even all of their hand-held units. They wanted a site that provides this capability to everyone for free and not a site that charges $30/year for this. I think Groundspeak could put an end to Opencaching right now if they were to provide a limited GPX capability for basic members. If they did this because of Opencaching.com, Garmin would probably consider whatever they have spent so far worth it.

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to figure out how to download a GPX file on OC to their Garmin then go geocaching and log their finds on GC. Now, is cross-listing geocaches really such a bad thing? Not for GC it ain't, but those smart fellers already knew that or GC would have banned the practice.

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It's just another caching site guys. Relax, no one is making you list or even seek a cache over there. It will be ok. Take the five step program. Deny, deny, deny, deny, then forget about them. Good luck with it. I know it is hard to do. :blink:

Haven't really thought this through yet, have you, Joranda?
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Another place to find the same caches you can find here, which makes it irrelevant.

For the record, that statement is around 94% true. That's pretty good, by forum standards! :)

Thanks Keystone.

They think it will last, I think it will fail, we will see who's prediction is right. Either way I'm staying here, I read their Forums, if they could only see themselves as others do.

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Another place to find the same caches you can find here, which makes it irrelevant.

For the record, that statement is around 94% true. That's pretty good, by forum standards! :)

 

I totally agree with this user. I support Groundspeak. I am a PM that trys to list geocaches that interest other users also.

Edited by Manville Possum Hunters
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Another place to find the same caches you can find here, which makes it irrelevant.

For the record, that statement is around 94% true. That's pretty good, by forum standards! :)

Thanks Keystone.

They think it will last, I think it will fail, we will see who's prediction is right. Either way I'm staying here, I read their Forums, if they could only see themselves as others do.

 

It is the same on all forums. Some comes in to start trouble. Then someone says something back. Then someone hurts someones feelings. Then someone feels bad. Then someone...........

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It's just another caching site guys. Relax, no one is making you list or even seek a cache over there. It will be ok. Take the five step program. Deny, deny, deny, deny, then forget about them. Good luck with it. I know it is hard to do. :blink:

Haven't really thought this through yet, have you, Joranda?

 

Well let me think to a second. It is just another caching site, well yeah, they have caches and it is a site. Check. They can't make you cachge on any site that you don't want to. True, they can't so check that one too. Is there a lot of people denying that, well yeah I think there is.

 

Answer to that. Yeap I have thought it thru. Pretty easy stuff. Why make it harder than it is.

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Another place to find the same caches you can find here, which makes it irrelevant.

For the record, that statement is around 94% true. That's pretty good, by forum standards! :)

 

I totally agree with this user. I support Groundspeak. I am a PM that trys to list geocaches that interest users to seek. Do I agree with this GS volunteer moderator? No, I don't. But can he kick me out of this thread and ban me from the GS forums? Yes he can. He already did so. I just think that it was a misunderstanding, we folks in my area seem to have trouble understanding each other. Miscommunication is what I call it. I know that me and the Evil Elves/Keystone/Leprechauns, or whatever account that a user uses, our issues are personal. But I am not a GS volunteer moderator.

 

Sure, I could comment more. But I commented more the last time and it took less the last time to get a 3 day time-out. All it took was a volunteer moderator to consider my post off topic, then before (6 hours) the ban was lifted a GS lakey stood by the moderator. Fair is fair, but Wrong is still wrong.

 

:rolleyes: For the record, this statement of support has about 2% of anything to do with agreeing with either user quoted (and I'm being generous). That's pretty bad, by forum standards. I'm not even sure it's historically accurate.

 

But thanks for airing your grievances... again.

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You know what I think is funny. I visited the other sites forums once. Seen a couple users posting and bashing GS, how bad it was over here and about how they never visit the forums over here anymore. Someone must be hacking their accounts because there sure is a lot of posts coming from their accounts! :laughing::rolleyes::laughing:

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Take Wherigo for example, (although not Garmin's game), do you think they would have sold anywhere near the same number of Oregon's without it? A market was created (this new Wherigo game), and devices were sold.

 

wait. wait. did you just said that people bought oregons because they supported Wherigo?

 

:(

 

That actually was part of my criteria, but now I'm not so sure why. :blink:

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Very interesting thread. I just went to Garmin's openecaching.com site, and it seems to be working fine. I like their map interface that will switch to satellite view as you zoom in. I don't like that they have like 3 caches within 50 miles of while geocaching.com has like 1,700.

 

Who knew there were other caching sites? Just looked at open us and teracaching. That sponsor thing is ridiculous - I was looking down the list and it looked there were dozens waiting for sponsors. Think they need to get a clue. Besides, how do I know if I want to join if you won't let me look at your caches?

 

I always like a variety of things to look for. I shop at Walmart, Sam's, Target, Best Buy, Office Depot, Amazon, etc, etc, etc, and get the best bang for the buck, which it appears, is geocaching.com and Groundspeak. JMHO.

Edited by aintnorock
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...but it is the PM's that are trying to force basic members to upgrade to play by making their caches PMO, not TPTB.

I am a PM. At one point, one of my caches was a PMO.

How exactly was that cache "forcing" you to become a PM?

If you wanted to hunt it, you could choose to become a PM, or ask me for the coords.

If you wanted to log it, you could choose to become a PM or utilize the backdoor.

In both instances, the choice is yours. You are not being "forced" to do anything.

Please leave your entitlement at the door.

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Sure, I could comment more. But I commented more the last time and it took less the last time to get a 3 day time-out. All it took was a volunteer moderator to consider my post off topic, then before (6 hours) the ban was lifted a GS lakey stood by the moderator. Fair is fair, but Wrong is still wrong.

 

If it's the post I reported, you were expressly telling people that the other site is wonderful and that everyone ought to go check it out. The moderators have made no secret of where the line is drawn between discussion and promotion. Your inability to respect that line makes you the one who is wrong, not the moderators.

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Sure, I could comment more. But I commented more the last time and it took less the last time to get a 3 day time-out. All it took was a volunteer moderator to consider my post off topic, then before (6 hours) the ban was lifted a GS lakey stood by the moderator. Fair is fair, but Wrong is still wrong.

 

If it's the post I reported, you were expressly telling people that the other site is wonderful and that everyone ought to go check it out. The moderators have made no secret of where the line is drawn between discussion and promotion. Your inability to respect that line makes you the one who is wrong, not the moderators.

No, it was not you that time. It was in another thread that I don't feel was really related to geocaching much. Just someone that created a account looking for another user that they had met and they were a geocacher. As far as the other site? It is ok, but it does not compare to this site. I like it here, the site just keeps getting better. I just have trouble communicating in the forums. There is always someone willing to mislead another user then report them. What you call my inabality was just me not understanding that I could not post to check out that site in this sites forums. The moderator was nice enough to explain that to me. You must understand that many of us that use these forums are NOT professional socical networkers. I am just a simple person, what you might call a lay person.

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Sure, I could comment more. But I commented more the last time and it took less the last time to get a 3 day time-out. All it took was a volunteer moderator to consider my post off topic, then before (6 hours) the ban was lifted a GS lakey stood by the moderator. Fair is fair, but Wrong is still wrong.

 

If it's the post I reported, you were expressly telling people that the other site is wonderful and that everyone ought to go check it out. The moderators have made no secret of where the line is drawn between discussion and promotion. Your inability to respect that line makes you the one who is wrong, not the moderators.

No one is ever banned from here who doesn't bring it upon themselves, and unless they are seriously out of line it's an accumulation of violations that lead up to it. I tried to warn one poster he was heading to a ban with his behavior and he took it as personal attack, where is he today? Not posting here. To date he has blamed everyone and everything for it but the real reason, his refusal to follow GC.com guidelines.

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...but it is the PM's that are trying to force basic members to upgrade to play by making their caches PMO, not TPTB.

I am a PM. At one point, one of my caches was a PMO.

How exactly was that cache "forcing" you to become a PM?

If you wanted to hunt it, you could choose to become a PM, or ask me for the coords.

If you wanted to log it, you could choose to become a PM or utilize the backdoor.

In both instances, the choice is yours. You are not being "forced" to do anything.

Please leave your entitlement at the door.

I just live in a area where there are very few geocachers that hide caches. One group of users which each member has 300 + hides have littered the area with PMO hides. Instead of maintaing them the just leave them to be archived by the local reviewers.

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...but it is the PM's that are trying to force basic members to upgrade to play by making their caches PMO, not TPTB.

I am a PM. At one point, one of my caches was a PMO.

How exactly was that cache "forcing" you to become a PM?

If you wanted to hunt it, you could choose to become a PM, or ask me for the coords.

If you wanted to log it, you could choose to become a PM or utilize the backdoor.

In both instances, the choice is yours. You are not being "forced" to do anything.

Please leave your entitlement at the door.

I just live in a area where there are very few geocachers that hide caches. One group of users which each member has 300 + hides have littered the area with PMO hides. Instead of maintaing them the just leave them to be archived by the local reviewers.

How in the world can that be construed as forcing anybody to become a PM??? :blink::rolleyes:

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...but it is the PM's that are trying to force basic members to upgrade to play by making their caches PMO, not TPTB.

I am a PM. At one point, one of my caches was a PMO.

How exactly was that cache "forcing" you to become a PM?

If you wanted to hunt it, you could choose to become a PM, or ask me for the coords.

If you wanted to log it, you could choose to become a PM or utilize the backdoor.

In both instances, the choice is yours. You are not being "forced" to do anything.

Please leave your entitlement at the door.

I just live in a area where there are very few geocachers that hide caches. One group of users which each member has 300 + hides have littered the area with PMO hides. Instead of maintaing them the just leave them to be archived by the local reviewers.

How in the world can that be construed as forcing anybody to become a PM??? :blink::rolleyes:

 

<edited out>

Edited by Sioneva
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...but it is the PM's that are trying to force basic members to upgrade to play by making their caches PMO, not TPTB.

I am a PM. At one point, one of my caches was a PMO.

How exactly was that cache "forcing" you to become a PM?

If you wanted to hunt it, you could choose to become a PM, or ask me for the coords.

If you wanted to log it, you could choose to become a PM or utilize the backdoor.

In both instances, the choice is yours. You are not being "forced" to do anything.

Please leave your entitlement at the door.

I just live in a area where there are very few geocachers that hide caches. One group of users which each member has 300 + hides have littered the area with PMO hides. Instead of maintaing them the just leave them to be archived by the local reviewers.

How in the world can that be construed as forcing anybody to become a PM??? :blink::rolleyes:

Ah, you have to be PM in order to log the NA? Yeah, a stretch but best I could come up with.

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...but it is the PM's that are trying to force basic members to upgrade to play by making their caches PMO, not TPTB.

I am a PM. At one point, one of my caches was a PMO.

How exactly was that cache "forcing" you to become a PM?

If you wanted to hunt it, you could choose to become a PM, or ask me for the coords.

If you wanted to log it, you could choose to become a PM or utilize the backdoor.

In both instances, the choice is yours. You are not being "forced" to do anything.

Please leave your entitlement at the door.

I just live in a area where there are very few geocachers that hide caches. One group of users which each member has 300 + hides have littered the area with PMO hides. Instead of maintaing them the just leave them to be archived by the local reviewers.

How in the world can that be construed as forcing anybody to become a PM??? :blink::rolleyes:

How can you seek geocaches that are PMO if you are a basic member? I like to share my geocaches with others. Geocaching is little known in my area, I would say that 95% of adults over 40 have no idea what it is.

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