Missing Challenge Cache

[+Rose Red]

If you completed a Challenge Cache that extended over 400-1000 miles only to find that the cache for the Challenge was missing. It was not the case that you were unable to find it but it was missing. You would have to return over 450 miles again to sign the log sheet providing that the cache was really there and not missing again. What would you do as a cacher? What would you do as the owner of the missing cache?

Edited November 25, 2010 by Rose Red

[+GeoGeeBee]

I'd post a DNF.

[+Ecylram]

As a cacher...first, probably utter a cuss word or two. Then I'd send a note to the CO and see if I get a quick response before I had to head back. If I don't hear back, for a few minutes I'd probably consider logging it anyway. In the end, I probably wouldn't log it.

 

A trip of that distance I wouldn't make again JUST to find the cache. But I'd visit the cache if I was ever in the area again.

 

As a CO...I'd quickly disable the cache and then replace it. I would send an email to the visiting cacher that they can log the cache if they desire.

[+narcissa]

I would recognize that I don't need to find an ALR cache to validate a worthwhile challenge.

[+Ecylram]

I would recognize that I don't need to find an ALR cache to validate a worthwhile challenge.

You are absolutely correct, the challenge is met whether it is logged or not.

 

A fine point...a challenge cache is allowed under the guidelines and is not part of the ALR ban.

[+narcissa]

A fine point...a challenge cache is allowed under the guidelines and is not part of the ALR ban.

 

Indeed.

[+M 5]

Although I was geocaching when Groundspeak banned ALR's, I wasn't frequenting the forums. What was the problem with ALR's anyway. Virtual, Earthcaches and Challenge caches still use them, but they didn't grandfather existing caches with ALR's. It's been said many times, that you don't have to do all the caches. Is is just a case of cachers d/l caches and not reading the cache pages and not knowing the ALR's? So what, you get home to log your caches and see that you didn't complete the AlR it, so you don't count it. Big deal. I do think that some ALR's can get silly, but so are many other types of caches in my opinion.

[+Isonzo Karst]

You would have to return over 450 miles again to sign the log sheet providing that the cache was really there and not missing again.

 

What would you do as a cacher?

 

Log a DNF and think about getting back sometime to find that sucker.

 

What would you do as the owner of the missing cache?

 

Disable and make repairs ASAP. I would not offer the cacher who DNFed the cache a smiley for effort.

[+wimseyguy]

You would have to return over 450 miles again to sign the log sheet providing that the cache was really there and not missing again.

What would you do as a cacher?

 

Log a DNF and think about getting back sometime to find that sucker.

 

What would you do as the owner of the missing cache?

 

Disable and make repairs ASAP. I would not offer the cacher who DNFed the cache a smiley for effort.

+1 It's no different than solving a puzzle cache that isn't near to home.

ALR's and Challenge Caches are not the same. Don't let some of the replies in this thread confuse the issue or questions asked in the OP.

Edited November 25, 2010 by wimseyguy

[+northernpenguin]

Completion of the challenge does not warrant an automatic smiley on a physical cache, even if the cache is themed after the challenge.

 

While it would certainly *feel good* to get that smiley, it's a DNF on the cache itself.

I would post a note to the cache about qualifying and/or a DNF.

 

But a lot of us like to say, "It's about the journey" and that can refer to the challenge pursuit just as much as the actual walk to the cache.

[jholly]

Although I was geocaching when Groundspeak banned ALR's, I wasn't frequenting the forums. What was the problem with ALR's anyway. Virtual, Earthcaches and Challenge caches still use them, but they didn't grandfather existing caches with ALR's. It's been said many times, that you don't have to do all the caches. Is is just a case of cachers d/l caches and not reading the cache pages and not knowing the ALR's? So what, you get home to log your caches and see that you didn't complete the AlR it, so you don't count it. Big deal. I do think that some ALR's can get silly, but so are many other types of caches in my opinion.

Here is the thread on the subject. Have a couple beers handy. One of the problems with ALR's were the requirements. Some were a bit, ah, well, never mind. One of the issues was the log deletion wars that the frog had to moderate.

Edited November 25, 2010 by jholly

[+niraD]

One of the issues was the log deletion wars that the frog had to moderate.

Another issue was that the volunteer reviewers were tired of cache owners complaining when their ALR caches were denied, when their ALRs violated Groundspeak's unpublished rules about ALRs.

 

On the original topic, as a cache seeker, I wouldn't travel that far just for a challenge cache. If I was going to be in the area of the final and knew I had completed the challenge, then I'd drop by to search for the cache. If I didn't find it, then I'd post a DNF.

 

It's hard to say what I'd do as a cache owner, since I don't think I'd own a challenge cache. I don't think challenge caches are a good way to handle geocaching challenges.

[+narcissa]

 

ALR's and Challenge Caches are not the same. Don't let some of the replies in this thread confuse the issue or questions asked in the OP.

 

Fulfilling a challenge is an Additional Logging Requirement (ALR). Groundspeak inexplicably excludes this sort of ALR from the ALR guideline, but it's still an ALR.

[+t4e]

didn't think this day will come, but i agree with narcissa in regards to challenge caches and ALR

 

 

to answer the OP's question, i guess it depends partly on you and partly on what the CO is willing to do, given that you are so far from the cache

 

to me the container that i am supposed to find only after i completed the requirements of a challenge doesn't mean anything, in my eyes is not going to validate the fact that i found all the required caches

my personal satisfaction is what validates my achievement

of course is all a matter of personal preference how we choose to "play"

[+Tequila]

If you completed a Challenge Cache that extended over 400-1000 miles only to find that the cache for the Challenge was missing. It was not the case that you were unable to find it but it was missing. You would have to return over 450 miles again to sign the log sheet providing that the cache was really there and not missing again. What would you do as a cacher? What would you do as the owner of the missing cache?

 

This happened to another cacher and myself.

 

We planned a day long trip from Toronto to Buffalo to Dayton Ohio to Grand Rapids Michigan to log four fizzy challenges in a single day. Started at 0500 and finished at 2200.

 

Unfortunately, the Ohio Fizzy cache was AWOL.

 

Without even thinking otherwise, we logged a DNF because we did not find the cache and we did not sign the log.

 

But we had a lot of fun visiting the areas along the way. Logged 3 fizzies which felt pretty good. Next day we logged a whole bunch of Wherigo's. Great trip.

[Keystone]

As a reminder, the topic of the thread is what to do if a challenge cache is missing. Please take the legitimate existence of challenge caches as a given when responding. Thanks for keeping on topic!

[Andronicus]

So what if part of the challange is something like "you have to compleate the challange and find the cache withing 60 days"? And it is day 59, or 60? Then what would you do. I think I would find the local forum fast, and post a desperate plea for someone, anyone to contact the CO and get that bad boy back in acction.

[+TerraViators]

You would have to return over 450 miles again to sign the log sheet providing that the cache was really there and not missing again.

 

What would you do as a cacher?

 

Log a DNF and think about getting back sometime to find that sucker.

 

What would you do as the owner of the missing cache?

 

Disable and make repairs ASAP. I would not offer the cacher who DNFed the cache a smiley for effort.

As a cacher: log a DNF and a NM.

 

As a CO: give the cacher permission to log a smiley. Not the cacher's fault the cache is missing. That's the burden of the CO. After all, a challenge cache is not meant to be a DNF magnet.

[+TerraViators]

 

ALR's and Challenge Caches are not the same. Don't let some of the replies in this thread confuse the issue or questions asked in the OP.

 

Fulfilling a challenge is an Additional Logging Requirement (ALR). Groundspeak inexplicably excludes this sort of ALR from the ALR guideline, but it's still an ALR.

Agreed. Just because it is allowed, does not change what it is. On the other hand, isn't something as simple as removing a log from a cache container an ALR? It MUST be done to sign it, therefore, logging a smiley.

[+niraD]

At the risk of incurring Keystone's wrath, I'll respond. But since this is wandering from the original topic, if you want to discuss the general nature of ALRs further, then please create a new thread.

On the other hand, isn't something as simple as removing a log from a cache container an ALR? It MUST be done to sign it, therefore, logging a smiley.

The key is the word "additional". Things which must be done to find the cache and sign the log are not "additional". Thus, determining the final location of a multi-cache or puzzle cache, getting to ground zero, finding the cache, opening the container, removing the log from the container, opening a log book to a blank page, figuring out how to mark the log with your name, etc. are not "additional". The word "additional" applies to things like posting a photograph that meets certain criteria, writing your online log in a specific format, etc.

[+GRANPA ALEX]

If you completed a Challenge Cache that extended over 400-1000 miles only to find that the cache for the Challenge was missing. It was not the case that you were unable to find it but it was missing. You would have to return over 450 miles again to sign the log sheet providing that the cache was really there and not missing again. What would you do as a cacher? What would you do as the owner of the missing cache?

 

You might have replaced the 'missing' cache, logged the find telling the CO what you did in the log. Then email/call the CO to let them know you are fine if they care to delete your find log if they are not pleased with the help you provided them and future seekers.

 

This has worked for me and I have found CO's understanding and appreciative.

Edited November 26, 2010 by GRANPA ALEX

[+FunnyNose]

If you completed a Challenge Cache that extended over 400-1000 miles only to find that the cache for the Challenge was missing. It was not the case that you were unable to find it but it was missing. You would have to return over 450 miles again to sign the log sheet providing that the cache was really there and not missing again. What would you do as a cacher? What would you do as the owner of the missing cache?

 

You might have replaced the 'missing' cache, logged the find telling the CO what you did in the log. Then email/call the CO to let them know you are fine if they care to delete your find log if they are not pleased with the help you provided them and future seekers.

 

This has worked for me and I have found CO's understanding and appreciative.

 

I don't believe in "throwdowns" unless I have the explicit permission from the cache owner.

[AZcachemeister]

If you completed a Challenge Cache that extended over 400-1000 miles only to find that the cache for the Challenge was missing. It was not the case that you were unable to find it but it was missing. You would have to return over 450 miles again to sign the log sheet providing that the cache was really there and not missing again. What would you do as a cacher? What would you do as the owner of the missing cache?

 

You might have replaced the 'missing' cache, logged the find telling the CO what you did in the log. Then email/call the CO to let them know you are fine if they care to delete your find log if they are not pleased with the help you provided them and future seekers.

 

This has worked for me and I have found CO's understanding and appreciative.

 

I don't believe in "throwdowns" unless I have the explicit advance permission from the cache owner.

 

Fixed it for ya!

 

If you are TRULY trying to help the owner, you would place your throwdown and post a note (or a DNF with explanation).

[+narcissa]

If you completed a Challenge Cache that extended over 400-1000 miles only to find that the cache for the Challenge was missing. It was not the case that you were unable to find it but it was missing. You would have to return over 450 miles again to sign the log sheet providing that the cache was really there and not missing again. What would you do as a cacher? What would you do as the owner of the missing cache?

 

You might have replaced the 'missing' cache, logged the find telling the CO what you did in the log. Then email/call the CO to let them know you are fine if they care to delete your find log if they are not pleased with the help you provided them and future seekers.

 

This has worked for me and I have found CO's understanding and appreciative.

 

Yes, there's nothing I appreciate more than finding somebody's replacement cache hidden just three feet from the real cache that somebody else couldn't find. Oh, isn't it wonderful when people behave like presumptuous, entitled jerks?

[+John in Valley Forge]

If you completed a Challenge Cache that extended over 400-1000 miles only to find that the cache for the Challenge was missing. It was not the case that you were unable to find it but it was missing. You would have to return over 450 miles again to sign the log sheet providing that the cache was really there and not missing again. What would you do as a cacher? What would you do as the owner of the missing cache?

 

You might have replaced the 'missing' cache, logged the find telling the CO what you did in the log. Then email/call the CO to let them know you are fine if they care to delete your find log if they are not pleased with the help you provided them and future seekers.

 

This has worked for me and I have found CO's understanding and appreciative.

 

Yes, there's nothing I appreciate more than finding somebody's replacement cache hidden just three feet from the real cache that somebody else couldn't find. Oh, isn't it wonderful when people behave like presumptuous, entitled jerks?

 

Narcissa, chill, please. I don't much like the idea of of leaving a throwdown either, at least without consulting with the CO first. Better if you leave some sort of unique or signature item at what you believe to be Ground Zero. Send a note to the CO explaining that you believe the cache is lost and what you left. Next time he is out checking it, your signature item would verify your finding the spot and award the find.

 

Or you could be real rotten egg and claim the find. Since the cache is missing, there is no way to claim that you didn't sign it before it disappeared.

[+keehotee]

 

ALR's and Challenge Caches are not the same. Don't let some of the replies in this thread confuse the issue or questions asked in the OP.

 

Fulfilling a challenge is an Additional Logging Requirement (ALR). Groundspeak inexplicably excludes this sort of ALR from the ALR guideline, but it's still an ALR.

 

ALRs are acts that you had to perform in addition to signing the physical log, before you could log your find online - and didn't necessarily have anything to do with the act of finding the cache.

 

Challenges are acts that you have to perform before finding and signing the physical log.

 

Seems a big difference to me.

[+narcissa]

 

ALR's and Challenge Caches are not the same. Don't let some of the replies in this thread confuse the issue or questions asked in the OP.

 

Fulfilling a challenge is an Additional Logging Requirement (ALR). Groundspeak inexplicably excludes this sort of ALR from the ALR guideline, but it's still an ALR.

 

ALRs are acts that you had to perform in addition to signing the physical log, before you could log your find online - and didn't necessarily have anything to do with the act of finding the cache.

 

Challenges are acts that you have to perform before finding and signing the physical log.

 

Seems a big difference to me.

 

That was a common manifestation of ALRs, but the guidelines do not define them so explicitly. There were ALR caches that required preparation beforehand as well as caches that had on-site tasks.

[+addisonbr]

If you completed a Challenge Cache that extended over 400-1000 miles only to find that the cache for the Challenge was missing. It was not the case that you were unable to find it but it was missing. You would have to return over 450 miles again to sign the log sheet providing that the cache was really there and not missing again. What would you do as a cacher? What would you do as the owner of the missing cache?

Can you tell me a little more about the nature of the challenge?

 

Without knowing more, I'd probably log it as a DNF.

 

As the CO, I'd be pretty bummed about the situation and do what I could to replace the container ASAP. I wouldn't offer to give a smiley, but nor would I be likely to delete the smiley if someone decided on their own to log it as a find.

 

When I travel long distances to get specific, special caches, I'll often touch base with the CO to see if they have an easy way to check on the cache before I head out there. I don't expect or demand that level of service - it's more like - "Hey, I'll be flying 2500 miles tomorrow and was planning to drive a couple of extra hours out of my way to get your special cache. I see it hasn't been found in 9 months - do you happen to know if it's available to be found? I probably won't be back in the area for years and figured I'd make extra-sure before driving out there, and see if you happened to know anything..."

 

I've never failed to get a nice response in return. A couple of times the CO's made even special trips to check on the cache for me, a gesture which is difficult for me to reciprocate but was hugely appreciated.

[+hzoi]

Had this happen with Die Kurpfalz-Challenge. The description spelled out that it was a small cache and had a spoiler photo that clearly indicated where to look. I searched there and came up empty, also searched downhill and all around to see if it had rolled out or been misplaced. No dice.

 

The cache was far from our apartment and I was running out of weekends when I'd have a chance to be back in the area -- we moved out of Europe a few months later -- so it didn't seem likely I could get back down. I had also planned for months for this to be a milestone cache. I had a micro in my caching bag, so I signed it, left it, took photos of the cache location to confirm I was in the right area, and contacted the cache owner.

 

Turns out he lived even further from the challenge cache than I did. He verified I was in the right place, thanked me for leaving a replacement cache, and gave me permission to log the find. My replacement cache ended up standing in for the final for almost another year, then the owner finally had a chance to replace it with another small cache. If he hadn't given me permission, though, I would not have logged it as a find.

 

Since then, if I was making a special trip to log a challenge cache (or any other cache I specifically wanted), I either checked to make sure it'd been logged recently or did what addisonbr has done and contacted the owner.

Edited November 29, 2010 by hzoi

[+briansnat]

If you completed a Challenge Cache that extended over 400-1000 miles only to find that the cache for the Challenge was missing. It was not the case that you were unable to find it but it was missing. You would have to return over 450 miles again to sign the log sheet providing that the cache was really there and not missing again. What would you do as a cacher? What would you do as the owner of the missing cache?

 

If I were the searcher, I'd log a DNF and maybe go back again some day once the cache was replaced.

 

If I were the owner I'd replace the cache as soon as possible.

[Clan Riffster]

I have to run my answers through a "What If" filter, as challenge caches hold little appeal to me.

With that in mind, I'll give it a shot:

 

What would you do as a cacher?

1 ) Be thankful that I was in a place, physically, mentally and financially, where I could attempt such a challenge.

2 ) Log my DNF, since I didn't find it, thanking the owner for the experience, enjoying myself regardless.

3 ) Watchlist the cache, so I know when it is viable again.

4 ) Wait till Life brought me back there, and try again.

 

What would you do as the owner of the missing cache?

As with any other cache I own, that depends on why it went missing.

If the location could no longer support a cache, I would archive it.

Otherwise, I would replace it.

I would not offer permission for the seeker to log a find anyway.

If they did so, I would leave it alone.