What are the liberties of a Geocacher?

[McMasta]

I did a search for "law" "authority" "authorities" "police" and whatnot, didn't find exactly what I was looking for. Sorry if this is a duplicate thread.

 

I ask this because I went on my first geocaching run yesterday (2/4). One of the caches was "muggled," and the other I gave up. I didn't give up because of lack of commitment, but rather a squad car was flashing his searchlight at me. The cache was located along a busy intersection at a grassy field near a bus stop. It was around 6 pm and rather dark. I calmly returned to the intersection and crossed the street.. a bit annoyed.

Unfortunately, I am probably the subject of extreme suspicion and bias because I'm a 17 year old (meaning I'm often associated with doing "illegal activities" by our police department, those damned kids).

 

Anyway, in the event that I am actually questioned by authorities, what exactly are my liberties? Sure, I'll reply "I'm geocaching..?" which might be met by blank stares.. (if they don't understand, will they buy it's a world wide treasure hunting game...?) And if it's a public area, like next to a bus stop, must I be forced to stop? I understand there's a stealth element to geocaching, but a fun amount of geocaches are in an urban setting... I don't wanna have my fun spoiled by authorities that may be exploiting my liberties... >.>;

[+StarBrand]

Print out a few of these brochures: http://www.gpsmaze.com/uploads/files/GEOCACH_F2.pdf

 

Carry them with you. Be prepared to answer a few questions about Geocaching and maybe carry a listing page or two so that officers can understand the game a bit.

[+Chokecherry]

I go out prepared to explain in explicit detail what I'm doing with a couple little handouts as well. And paper to write down the website (complete with my user name on it).

 

Because of my many pieces of body art I tend to immediately raise the suspicion flags immediately be it shopping at Walmart or out hiking and/or geocaching. Shoot even walking to my car once after visiting a friend was a problem for one officer.

 

On top of that because I know I look suspicious I make sure to not sneak around, act secretive, lie to people asking what I'm doing etc. No special costumes. Nothing.

[jholly]

You could have walked over to the cop car and asked the nice officer to shine his light a little more to the left and down a bit so you could find the cache. For all you know he would have said "Oh, your one of those" and drove off. But would also give you a chance to have a positive dialog with the cop.

[+The Blorenges]

 

...Anyway, in the event that I am actually questioned by authorities, what exactly are my liberties?

 

 

The answer to this question may depend on which country or state you're in.

 

MrsB

[+KristenSh]

I would ditto carrying a printout, and some brochures or little business cards with the website, or something. Might get new hobby converts, and it definitely adds legitimacy. Toting around small kids with you also tends to deflect suspicion, even if it does also draw attention ... you might grab some kids to babysit and earn money at the same time.

 

If your area has occasional meet-ups, find some and go with others in a group ... let THEM do the talking. Or scroll through comments on some of the ones you've chosen to hunt ... you may find that some mention 'the employees know about this one' or 'Sundays are emptiest' or things like that. I know several in our area were tagged temporarily when the neighborhood was going through a spurt of robberies ... cachers were discouraged from adding to the confusion till it was all sorted out. So reading further logs can help you find out those helpful tidbits.

[+Y2KOTA]

Bottom line is, If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

 

I represent a company that that offers a services that has helped me once while caching and my family many time with other legal issues over the years. Last year I inquired with Groundspeak about advertising and they turned me down. Perhaps I'll give it another try.

[+Huntleigh]

..snip...

Anyway, in the event that I am actually questioned by authorities, what exactly are my liberties? Sure, I'll reply "I'm geocaching..?" which might be met by blank stares.. (if they don't understand, will they buy it's a world wide treasure hunting game...?) And if it's a public area, like next to a bus stop, must I be forced to stop? I understand there's a stealth element to geocaching, but a fun amount of geocaches are in an urban setting... I don't wanna have my fun spoiled by authorities that may be exploiting my liberties... >.>;

 

That would probably depend on what country you were geocaching in.

[+SeekerOfTheWay]

You're way overthinking this, OP. Just geocache and don't worry about the cops bothering you. We've probably all been questioned at one time or another. It's not because you're 17. It's not your tats. It's because we are looking and sometimes lurking. It draws attention. I'm a girl who couldn't look more innocent and I've been stopped a few times and had to explain.

 

No biggie. Just be respectful to the environment and you'll be fine.

[McMasta]

Bottom line is, If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

Exactly why I created this thread

 

I'm in the United States, California to be exact.

My community has two high schools in it.. We're kind of a partying community if you know what I'm saying.. so there are a lot of cops around. I'm aware the "lurking" part is what's drawing all the attention, but my age is no help

 

And as far as overthinking it, maybe I am. But it's always helpful to have some sort of preparation for any situation, .

 

Thanks for the input, guys. Much appreciated.

[+SeekerOfTheWay]

Having forethought and a plan is good, I agree. I tend to just go about my business of searching when a cop, security officer or muggle is watching. I notice them but I don't get nervous nor do I keep looking at them. If they have questions, they can approach me.

 

If, after I explain, a cop tells me to stop, I would. That's never happened though. So far I get half of the questioners saying "neat" and the other half telling me caching sounds horrible. Oh well.

 

I once was searching a cache on a bridge and there was work across the street. The foreman called over to me and asked if I was OSHA. When I walked over to show him the cache he pretty much lectured me and told me to scram. He asked what the cops would do if they saw me. I told him geocaching wasn't illegal but that I'd make a note in my log about his wishes. He hurt my feelings and intimidated me. But that doesn't stop me from going about my hunt. I even searched there again with another cacher later on. Said cacher gave the lecturer the business...that I liked.

 

Either way, I don't find it a big deal. I like to be left alone.

Edited November 25, 2010 by SeekerOfTheWay

[+J the Goat]

I think liberties is a strange word to use, semantics I know. You have the same liberties as anyone else. If you get questioned, answer truthfully. The pamphlet idea is a good one, I need to print a few out for myself.

 

What part of California are you in? I'm north of San Francisco by a couple hours, and we have a couple local cachers who are law enforcement officers for different agencies. They've been known to stop while on duty and help cachers find their caches

 

Welcome to the game, hope you continue to enjoy it.

[McMasta]

Having forethought and a plan is good, I agree. I tend to just go about my business of searching when a cop, security officer or muggle is watching. I notice them but I don't get nervous nor do I keep looking at them. If they have questions, they can approach me.

I was getting observed by an old woman for a good 20 minutes when I was looking for the muggled one. Pretty awkward, but I still enjoyed it.

 

What part of California are you in? I'm north of San Francisco by a couple hours, and we have a couple local cachers who are law enforcement officers for different agencies. They've been known to stop while on duty and help cachers find their caches

Welcome to the game, hope you continue to enjoy it.

Northern San Diego County, city of Encinitas. I don't know any of the caching community here other than the friend I go with.

I'm having a great time, though. Just went 2/2 an hour ago. I'm sticking to trails and brushes before I venture into the urban lots again

[+Student Camper]

You have to keep in mind that in todays state of heightened paranoia, with everyone looking for evildoers, it doesn't make any difference whether you are 17 or 70.

If you apear to be sneaking around in the dark, however innocently, that is what people (or the cops) is going to see, it is one of the hazards of the sport.

You have to admit, rooting around in someone elses shrubbery is a bit out of the ordinary to most people.

Carry some of the literature and be ready to explain what you are doing.

But don't argue, if they tell you to go away, go, you can always come back later.

Edited November 26, 2010 by student camper

[sdarken]

If you're questioned by police or other similar authorities, tell the truth. Geocaching is not illegal and people are supposed to have permission to place caches. Don't lie to police. One the police figure out you're not doing anything illegal they will let you go. You may even find they are interested. For some reason geocaching seems to appeals to law enforcement.

 

In other cases (nosey neighbors, non-cachers etc) use your best judgment before revealing the cache. I try and protect other people's caches like I hope they would protect mine.

[+ShowStop]

If you're questioned by police or other similar authorities, tell the truth. Geocaching is not illegal and people are supposed to have permission to place caches. Don't lie to police. One the police figure out you're not doing anything illegal they will let you go. You may even find they are interested. For some reason geocaching seems to appeals to law enforcement.

 

In other cases (nosey neighbors, non-cachers etc) use your best judgment before revealing the cache. I try and protect other people's caches like I hope they would protect mine.

Yup, best advice right there. I've had numerous run ins with the police in my 11,000+ caching career. The situation goes so much easier when you show them your GPS and say you are playing the Geocaching scavenger hunting game.

 

One time a couple cops rolled up to me in a parking lot. They had reports from the neighbors of me shining my flashlight around. (it was 11pm) I explained what I was doing and that put them at ease. One of the cops even followed me to the next cache and we found it together.

[+J the Goat]

Having forethought and a plan is good, I agree. I tend to just go about my business of searching when a cop, security officer or muggle is watching. I notice them but I don't get nervous nor do I keep looking at them. If they have questions, they can approach me.

I was getting observed by an old woman for a good 20 minutes when I was looking for the muggled one. Pretty awkward, but I still enjoyed it.

 

What part of California are you in? I'm north of San Francisco by a couple hours, and we have a couple local cachers who are law enforcement officers for different agencies. They've been known to stop while on duty and help cachers find their caches

Welcome to the game, hope you continue to enjoy it.

Northern San Diego County, city of Encinitas. I don't know any of the caching community here other than the friend I go with.

I'm having a great time, though. Just went 2/2 an hour ago. I'm sticking to trails and brushes before I venture into the urban lots again

 

There are LOTS of events in your area on a regular basis. Attend a few and make some caching friends.

[+knowltonGeo]

 

...

...

 

...I make sure to not sneak around, act secretive, lie to people asking what I'm doing etc. No special costumes. Nothing.

 

 

LOL. This struck me funny. Thanks for this.

 

I leave my cape at home when I go caching as well.

[+knowltonGeo]

...

 

...

 

"...You may even find they are interested. For some reason geocaching seems to appeals to law enforcement.

 

...

 

LOL. I don't find this surprising. I find it cute and kinda funny.

 

I guess if they are having a slow night...they might enjoy grabbing a few caches. I wonder if that is allowed?

 

I think most cops enjoy a challenge...a mystery...following clues. They are used to searching for people who do not want to be found. I would think this would feed into geocaching quite naturally.

[+Ike 13]

I get stopped a good bit when I'm by myself. Much less when in a group.

 

Even though Geocaching is quite popular not everyone has heard about it and all they see is a bunch of people showing up at random hours poking around. This is suspicious, and eventually they approach someone. Explain Geocaching, show them your GPS and the listing. Most of the time they will be satisfied and leave it alone. If they start getting angry for trespassing, etc., just apologize and explain that the owner of the cache is supposed to get permission. If they insist it be removed then leave and post a Needs Archived log.

[+michigansnorkelers]

Have you ever watched COPS?

 

Very often, a routine stop for a minor event (such as a taillight out) ends up in an arrest involving drugs, weapons, or outstanding warrants. So, it is not surprising that your geocaching actions would be interesting to an officer. Just be understanding, truthful, and cooperative.

 

Of course, be careful how you hold a Garmin 60 or 62 unit!

[+geodarts]

I leave my cape at home when I go caching as well.

 

Some people like to wear hard hats, carry clipboards, and act official. But it would never work for me. So I act natural and tell the truth if anybody asks - there is no other option if officers are involved.

 

Fortunately some friends did exactly that when four officers in three cars showed up after somebody reported some very suspicious behavior. As the police log in the local paper reported:

 

10:39 p.m. A caller reported that two people

were trying to break into a payphone in the

2000 block of Novato Boulevard. The suspects said they were involved in a treasure hunt that

required finding certain payphones in Novato.

Police didn’t find any damage to the phone.

Edited November 26, 2010 by mulvaney

[+knowltonGeo]

I leave my cape at home when I go caching as well.

 

...Some people like to wear hard hats, carry clipboards, and act official. But it would never work for me.

 

 

 

LOL.

 

Yeah, I've heard about that tactic as well. It's sound possible in theory, but in actual practice, I think it would backfire for someone like me.

 

And isn't it illegal to impersonate people in this manner, in the post-911 climate? :S

 

I just act normal. It seems most people ignore me under those conditions. I act like it's just part of my normal day to walk up to a light pole and lift up the metal skirt and extract a small film canister and walk back to my car. Surprisingly, most people pay me no attention. They might be momentarily curious, but most are busy with errands or their own thoughts to give me more than passing notice. We often overestimate that people will give a darn what we are doing.

 

What made me laugh once was someone who gave the advice to put on a black hat and cape, look furtive, walk up to the cache rubbing your hands together. Once you retrieve the cache, laugh loudly in a maniacal fashion, then run back to your car.

[+niraD]

...Some people like to wear hard hats, carry clipboards, and act official. But it would never work for me.

And isn't it illegal to impersonate people in this manner, in the post-911 climate? :S

What would you be impersonating? And why would it be illegal to do so?

I just act normal. It seems most people ignore me under those conditions. I act like it's just part of my normal day to walk up to a light pole and lift up the metal skirt and extract a small film canister and walk back to my car. Surprisingly, most people pay me no attention. They might be momentarily curious, but most are busy with errands or their own thoughts to give me more than passing notice. We often overestimate that people will give a darn what we are doing.

Yep.

 

CITO makes a good cover. No one pays attention to someone picking up litter. When I need to spend time searching, I often pull out a plastic bag and pick up litter. When I find the cache, I toss it in the bag and keep going. Then I take a break to sign the log, replace the cache while picking up more litter, and toss the bag in a trash can as I'm leaving.

[+JoesBar]

It's nice of you to ask.

You're 17, so, as you stated, you will be under a greater suspicion. Get used to it. I was 17 long ago. Nothing has changed.

When you are questioned about caching, DON'T RUN. That will only give the officers a reason to kick your a**. And resist the urge to smart mouth them. Another reason to get your a** kicked.

Explain what you are doing. Another post had good adivce about printing out explanatory pages. Show them your GPSr. If you have found the cache, offer to show the container.

BE POLITE!

I'm much older, but I've met police officers that are full of themselves. I explain the situation, and try to just go on my way.

Better to come back and search again, instead of having a pat down that will make the TSA look like holding hands, and sitting in the back of a cramped squad car.

[+Chief301]

I'm just getting started in Geocaching. The odd thing for me is that I work as a security officer for a large industrial facility (restricted area and we fall under Homeland Security guidelines) so ironically the type of lurking and poking around common in Geocaching is exactly the kind of behavior I'm always looking out for at work! Consequently I'm always thinking my own activities must look mighty suspicious, but then I have to remind myself that the average observer probably doesn't notice or care what I'm up to

[+TeamBellingham]

I believe this is the thread you were looking for. I'm not sure how to make the link clickable, and as this is my first ever post in these forums I'm not sure if its automatic.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=221397