Why country Ireland for NI caches and not UK?

[+sTeamTraen]

You are the only ones in the whole world NOT having their country been shown but the name of the island you're living on.

Well, "only", apart from these 41 others (apologies for any which I've missed, or any of these which actually turn out to be sovereign political entities).

Aland Islands

Antarctica

Aruba

Bonaire

Bouvet Island

British Indian Ocean Territories

British Virgin Islands

Christmas Island

Cocos (Keeling) Islands

Comoros

Cook Islands

Curacao

Dominica

Faroe Islands

French Polynesia

French Southern Territories

Guadeloupe

Heard Island And Mcdonald Islands

Macau

Marshall Islands

Martinique

Mayotte

Micronesia

New Caledonia

Norfolk Island

Northern Mariana Islands

Palau

Pitcairn Islands

Reunion

Saint Helena

South Georgia and Sandwich Islands

St Barthelemy

St Eustatius

St Pierre Miquelon

St. Martin

Svalbard and Jan Mayen

Tokelau

Turks and Caicos Islands

US Minor Outlying Islands

US Virgin Islands

Wallis And Futuna Islands

 

See what I mean about "not as simple as all that" ?

[+monsterbox]

Hi!

 

But what I still don't understand (and probably NEVER will understand) why you don't use Ireland (or Republic of Ireland) and UK in addition to the old regions.

You may have missed this bit in my other post:

 

Using the historical boundaries in Ireland *did* remove politics from caching in NI. Prior to this some cachers were choosing UK or Ireland depending on political persuasions and backgrounds thereby making a political statement using their cache listing. This caused discomfort among many in the NI caching community.

 

I haven't exactly missed it but I didn't understand that, too!

 

NI = UK = UK Reviewer: No publish for caches with country <> UK

 

RoI = Ireland = Ireland Reviewer

 

Historical regions for both countries. So in the end you would have UK->Ulster and Ireland->Ulster + Ireland->All other Regions

 

Easy to understand. would work at least for your county issues and would perfectly fit into how the rest of the whole wide world is doing it.

 

That's exactly why I still can't really understand what you decided in the end ;-)

 

Bye,

Christian

[+monsterbox]

Hi!

 

Sorry to say so, but you were too fast with chosing these ;-)

 

You are the only ones in the whole world NOT having their country been shown but the name of the island you're living on.

 

Well, "only", apart from these 41 others (apologies for any which I've missed, or any of these which actually turn out to be sovereign political entities).

 

Sovereign entities or countries:

 

Aland Islands

Aruba

Comoros

Cook Islands

Dominica

Faroe Islands

Marshall Islands

Micronesia

Palau

 

Special counties of the Netherlands:

 

Bonaire

Curacao (autonomous)

St Eustatius

 

Dependent areas:

 

Bouvet Island

 

British Overseas Territories:

 

British Indian Ocean Territories

British Virgin Islands

Pitcairn Islands

Saint Helena

South Georgia and Sandwich Islands

Tokelau

Turks and Caicos Islands

 

Australian external territory:

 

Christmas Island

Cocos (Keeling) Islands

Heard Island And Mcdonald Islands

Norfolk Island

 

French overseas lands/departments/Collectivities:

 

French Polynesia

French Southern Territories

Guadeloupe

Martinique

Mayotte

New Caledonia

Reunion

St Barthelemy

St Pierre Miquelon

Wallis And Futuna Islands

 

Special administrative regions:

 

Macau

 

Insular Areas of the US:

 

Northern Mariana Islands

US Minor Outlying Islands

US Virgin Islands

 

Norwegian with special status:

 

Svalbard and Jan Mayen

 

So all these are either really some real countries or very special regions that belong to some other countries but having a special status (autonomous region, special government, special laws, i.e.). I can easily understand that these are considered being "countries" by themselves.

 

Antarctica

St. Martin

 

These 2 are really special! The Antarctica isn't exactly a country as in fact it is devided into many parts dependent to many other countries. But as no one really lives there nor will there be many caches I also can understand that the Antarctica isn't split and put to the belonging countries.

 

So in the end there might just be St. Martion which is devided into a dutch and a french half. The dutch half will become a country by its own in the close future while the french part seems to be an overseas department.

 

This means that just this single example seems to be close to what you do in Ireland. One difference is that both parts here officially share the same name ;-) So even this example isn't EXACTLY close...

 

See what I mean about "not as simple as all that" ?

 

As you see, for me it's still quite simple ;-) All the "countries" you listed are using their official name (name of a country, a territory, a special region, i.e.). So you are STILL the only ones using a geographical name as country.

 

Bye,

Christian

Edited November 27, 2010 by monsterbox

[+FollowMeChaps]

Precisely why the only way to keep it simple and to be non-political is to use the political boundaries of the current nation state. As soon as you create your own you become political yourself and create confusion - witness above.....

[Deceangi]

Sorry but as neither of you Live in NI or the RoI or even that part of Scotland nearest the island or Ireland and who got caught up in the mess that was the dual country listing of caches in NI. Nor are you affected in any way by the issue of NI Politics in total daily life there.

 

I'm afraid you'll never understand why the current Region Designation is the best option for Geocaching in both NI and RoI.

 

And before I get thrown at me, that I don't live in the affected areas, I do have experience of having to deal with issues as a Reviewer related to caches in NI listed as UK. Causing issues for peoples searches, and also the issues it created for Scottish cachers.

 

Also and this is more important, I do have a good understanding of the Politics within NI and also the Border area of RoI. As I happen to be a UK Protestant married to a Irish Catholic from one of those Border Towns, we have also spent several years living in RoI.

 

Please note: I state I have a good understanding, I'll never truly understand as I wasn't born and raised there. I've sat in staunchly Republican Pubs in that Border town, discussing the politics of the situation (something in the major times of the troubles, I wouldn't ever have got through the door of the pub). And yet I still don't understand at a level they do.

 

The designation of Ulster Ireland works for those affected by it, and that is the most important part. Something Groundspeak Understood by applying those Regions.

 

So whilst your not happy, those who live there, on both sides of the Political situation. Are happy with the designation, as it has removed Politics out of their hobby. So for them it's a Win Win situation!

 

And I am personally very proud of the caching community in NI, due to the way they have accepted the application of the Regions. Without any issue.

 

Deci

[+sTeamTraen]

Sorry to say so, but you were too fast with chosing these ;-)

I believe that my point still stands: there are many examples of where the Groundspeak division of the world does not correspond to national boundaries. How else do they arrive at 220 countries when there are only 193 (approx) countries in the UN (and, as far as I know, rather less than 27 countries which are not members of the UN) ?

 

Now, if you want another debate with lots of politics and ambiguity, go and look at why some people don't like the name "Macedonia"... or place a cache in Gaza and try to find how to list it.

[+ijcoxf]

SoThe designation of Ulster Ireland works for those affected by it, and that is the most important part. Something Groundspeak Understood by applying those Regions.

 

So whilst your not happy, those who live there, on both sides of the Political situation. Are happy with the designation, as it has removed Politics out of their hobby. So for them it's a Win Win situation!

 

Well that has to be the clinching argument, for me.

 

There is another more trivial reason to prefer Groundspeak's designations: the mapping grid system, so beloved of geo-nerds. (The island of) Ireland and Great Britain have similar but quite separate systems.

[+monsterbox]

Hi!

 

Sorry to say so, but you were too fast with chosing these ;-)

I believe that my point still stands: there are many examples of where the Groundspeak division of the world does not correspond to national boundaries. How else do they arrive at 220 countries when there are only 193 (approx) countries in the UN (and, as far as I know, rather less than 27 countries which are not members of the UN) ?

 

Now, if you want another debate with lots of politics and ambiguity, go and look at why some people don't like the name "Macedonia"... or place a cache in Gaza and try to find how to list it.

 

I'm sorry, but it wasn't me coming up with this long list of countries. I just took the time to get through it finding some definitely wrong entries and lots of other entries that I can fully understand.

 

The Ireland stuff is something I still can't understand. For me it simply (still) looks like the NI people don't want to be part of the UK. If I would place a cache there I would use UK as country and would complain if I wouldn't be allowed to do so...

 

I understand that many people living there seem to have a different opinion but I also saw some not exactly agreeing with what seems to be fact now.

 

So please don't tell me it works for everyone. It might work for the majority but definitely not for everyone... I simply still don't understand why the political country combined with the old regions doesn't work for the people in Ireland.

 

In the end I see that it is how it is and I will be able to create my work arounds. I simply changed the country in GSAK and the cache I've already found in NI is shown where I (!) want it to be shown: In the map of the UK!

 

Thanks a lot for all the people trying to answer my question! I see it isn't that easy to fin a working solution for ALL people. I also see it seems to work for many people living there and I also see it isn't exactly working for me, but this is my problem and not exactly yours ;-)

 

So thanks again!

 

Bye,

Christian