Why country Ireland for NI caches and not UK?

[+monsterbox]

Hi!

 

I just wonder why the Northern Ireland caches show Ireland as country instead of United Kingdom. Just found out about that as I've found my first NI cache some days ago. So maybe someone can tell me how this comes...

 

Thanks a lot!

 

Bye,

Christian

[Deceangi]

You'll find a explanation and link to the relevant Knowledge Book Article in this Topic

 

It's a question which has popped up before

 

Deci

[+monsterbox]

Hi!

 

You'll find a explanation and link to the relevant Knowledge Book Article in this Topic

 

It's a question which has popped up before

 

Deci

 

Thanks a lot. Thought already about something like that but I don't exactly like it as it breaks my find maps and makes me changing this info in GSAK in the end to fix it. That was the reason why I've found out about this issue.

 

And by the way: I extra wanted to search for irish caches only (not NI caches) and this makes it close to impossible to do so... So this decision has pros and cons as you can see. It looks that I need to think about that next time I'm in Ireland again.

 

Bye,

Christian

[+FollowMeChaps]

Real answer - Americans don't do geography!

[+sTeamTraen]

Real answer - Americans don't do geography!

Actually, if you think about it, you'll notice that geography is the key component of the solution which has been found to a complex issue here, and the good people from Groundspeak were very much involved in this.

 

I think we need a separate, pinned thread in here entitled "Post absurd generalisations about Americans here". When people feel the need to say that Americans are stupid, or prudish, or ignorant of history or geography, it could be done in there. If it's successful, we could maybe add another one for various other nationalities, and then move on to ethnic groups. I think I'll go and suggest it on the Feedback tab.

[+keehotee]

Real answer - Americans don't do geography!

Actually, if you think about it, you'll notice that geography is the key component of the solution which has been found to a complex issue here, and the good people from Groundspeak were very much involved in this.

 

I think we need a separate, pinned thread in here entitled "Post absurd generalisations about Americans here". When people feel the need to say that Americans are stupid, or prudish, or ignorant of history or geography, it could be done in there. If it's successful, we could maybe add another one for various other nationalities, and then move on to ethnic groups. I think I'll go and suggest it on the Feedback tab.

 

Ooooh - smileys not counting for anything anymore then????

[+sTeamTraen]

Ooooh - smileys not counting for anything anymore then????

That isn't

.

[+dino-irl]

Thanks a lot. Thought already about something like that but I don't exactly like it as it breaks my find maps and makes me changing this info in GSAK in the end to fix it. That was the reason why I've found out about this issue.

It doesn't break the maps if you use the right ones

 

And by the way: I extra wanted to search for irish caches only (not NI caches) and this makes it close to impossible to do so... So this decision has pros and cons as you can see. It looks that I need to think about that next time I'm in Ireland again.

If you search by state and choose Connacht, Dublin, Leinster or Munster you will get caches in RoI only. As NI is part of Ulster it is only Ulster caches where you have a "problem".

[+dino-irl]

Real answer - Americans don't do geography!

Just to point out that the UK & Ireland review team were heavily involved in deciding the boundaries and names of the UK & Ireland regions. The final decision for Ireland was made by Groundspeak but based on my advice.

 

NI and its designation is way more than just geography and there's not much point in dragging this hot coal out of the fire again

Edited November 20, 2010 by dino-irl

[+frostbitex]

I dont see how there is a "complex issue" with this. Northern Ireland is part of the UK. Our taxes are collected by the UK. Our MP`s sit in Westminster. We use sterling. If your cross into Southern Ireland you use Euro. It has its own parliament.Any map has Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland as seperate countries.

If you search for a cache in France, thats what you get, not Spain!

If you buy something from China they reconise N.Ireland as UK for postage so its hard to believe anything else but laziness as the reason to include N.I. as Ireland.

Ulster has 9 counties. 6 in Northern Ireland and 3 in the Republic. Why Geochaching use Ulster is a mystery to me.

In mainland europe if you place a cache in Poland it is Poland, not Germany or any other country they happen to border!

 

Rant over!!

[+dino-irl]

The whole point was to remove the politics from geocaching.

 

This article from the KB explains better: http://support.Groundspeak.com//index.php?....page&id=98

 

Please note these two lines in particular:

 

In both the United Kingdom  and Ireland  the decision was made to use non-political, geographical divisions...........The solution was proposed and the community agreed with the proposal.

This decision received widespread support at the time of its introduction, and is in no way meant as a sign of disrespect.

[+monsterbox]

Hi!

 

Thanks a lot. Thought already about something like that but I don't exactly like it as it breaks my find maps and makes me changing this info in GSAK in the end to fix it. That was the reason why I've found out about this issue.

It doesn't break the maps if you use the right ones

 

In fact it broke BOTH maps I used ;-) The "Ireland" map shows NI caches, too and the UK map doesn't show any NI caches. So that's two broken maps in the end :-)

 

And by the way: I extra wanted to search for irish caches only (not NI caches) and this makes it close to impossible to do so... So this decision has pros and cons as you can see. It looks that I need to think about that next time I'm in Ireland again.

If you search by state and choose Connacht, Dublin, Leinster or Munster you will get caches in RoI only. As NI is part of Ulster it is only Ulster caches where you have a "problem".

 

You're right but that for I would need more than just one query and that's not exactly what I wanted. And by the way: There are still 36 caches in NI claiming to be in UK and not Ireland.

 

I for sure understand that there are some reason to come to this decision so please don't get me wrong, it just costs me some additional work on the NI caches in GSAK to get it working like I wish, that's it.

 

Bye,

Christian

[+monsterbox]

Hi!

 

The whole point was to remove the politics from geocaching.

 

This article from the KB explains better: http://support.Groundspeak.com//index.php?....page&id=98

 

Please note these two lines in particular:

 

In both the United Kingdom  and Ireland  the decision was made to use non-political, geographical divisions...........The solution was proposed and the community agreed with the proposal.

This decision received widespread support at the time of its introduction, and is in no way meant as a sign of disrespect.

 

Sorry to say so but in my eyes this is an political decision and nothing else ;-) As I said before: I can understand that but please don't tell me something about geographical reasons. In that case the european part of Turkey should be considered being Greece in Geocaching and you easily can find other examples as well. What about Southern Tyrole? Should they be named as Austria just because they speak German?

 

I just understand that some/most of the NI cachers wanted to show they world where they feel to belong to and that Groundspeak agreed with this decision. And this simply is a politician decision and nothing else. You just found some nice explanations why it's geografically easier and convinced all the needed people to get it done that way.

 

So in the end it's not that hard for me to live with this decision (just GSAK stuff), it's just funny as you are the only ones in the whole wide world not having political borders used for your caches.

 

Bye,

Christian

[+dino-irl]

You're entitled to your opinion but you are wrong. As I said earlier the intention was to depoliticise caching in NI.

So in the end it's not that hard for me to live with this decision (just GSAK stuff), it's just funny as you are the only ones in the whole wide world not having political borders used for your caches

None of the regions in UK are political. They are all based on geographic designations so Ireland isn't unique in this.

[+Amberel]

The whole point was to remove the politics from geocaching.

I'm one of those who thinks, whatever the intention was, that this has the appearance of putting politics INTO geocaching!

 

This article from the KB explains better: http://support.Groundspeak.com//index.php?....page&id=98

The link gave Southern Scotland as an example of another non-political boundary. Is it intended that Southern Scotland encompass part of England, or that NorthEast England cover parts of Scotland? If not, then it's a misleading comparison with the NI arrangement.

 

In both the United Kingdom  and Ireland  the decision was made to use non-political, geographical divisions...........The solution was proposed and the community agreed with the proposal.

This decision received widespread support at the time of its introduction, and is in no way meant as a sign of disrespect.

My recollection is that it was discussed widely, but that the eventual decision was so different to what had been openly discussed that it surprised and disappointed the majority. Most of those who were pleased, were pleased that the decision had finally been taken rather than with the nature of the decision.

 

I acknowledge that there were many different proposals and that it was not possible to devise a scheme to cover them all. But whatever the merits of the rest of the regional groupings, it was surely naive to expect that this particular one would not be viewed by most of those in NI, and many elsewhere, as a political decision?

 

Rgds, Andy

[Deceangi]

Without attacking anyone, it's funny how those who live there, have been happy with the way the Ireland Regions have been set up. So given that Politics is so intertwined within life in NI, I'd say it has depoliticised the situation.And yes there was Politics within the selection of which Country the caches in NI where listed under. They are now listed under a Historic Region, one which pre-dates the History of NI by many centuries. So can in no way be political.

 

As for the UK, given that we have Historic/Ceremonial/Political counties. Given that possibly half the caching community or more will only have experience of Political counties. If we went with Political Counties. And a future Government coming along and changed County Boundaries or even as has happened in the past Added or Removed Metropolitan Counties (Greater Manchester is just a example of one added). The Counties list would be completely messed up.So it was decided to go with Regions, which can not be affected by any political decision.

 

Personally I'd expect Manchester to be listed as being in Lancashire , even though it has been in the Government created Metropolitan County of Greater Manchester since 1974. Then again I'd expect to Have Flintshire listed as a Welsh County, but do you go with the Political one currently in use today? Or the Historic one which has a detached part, now part of County Wrexham (which is a Modern county).

 

The more we looked into the situation the more confusing, and obvious liable to being messed up by Politicians. How about adding to the confusion, several Geocaching Stats/Mapping software uses Clwyd, that includes Flintshire. It was created in 1974 and abolished in 1996. Oh and I live in the Parliamentary Area of Delyn, yet Delyn Borough Council has not existed since 1974.

 

monsterbox as you can see from the above, the UK is possibly the only place in the world, where County(State) boundaries are not fixed, and there is multiple versions of Boundaries in application at the same time. So unlike Germany or the US, we are not is a position of using Fixed Political Boundaries. So took a non political Geographical solution.

 

Oh and add in the fact that Germany is lucky to have 16 fixed States with fixed Boundaries. The UK has 150+ with flexible boundaries. And trying to use so many for designating a cache in the UK, would be a nightmare. Given that UK cachers struggle to designate the correct region at times.

 

And I'm talking about a cache in the Middle of the NW England Region being classified as being in Yorkshire and Humberside, Caches in NE England being classified as being in the East Midlands. Designations about which there should be no confusion.

 

The choice of Regions was never going to please everyone. Bit it was the only continually workable solution open to us.

 

In regards to those caches in NI still listed as being in the UK, it was decided at the time of implementation, to Grandfather In all such caches. Over time they will either be edited to Ulster Ireland, or will be Archived either by the Owner or by a Reviewer. But none will be forcibly edited.

 

Deci

[+monsterbox]

Hi!

 

Without attacking anyone, it's funny how those who live there, have been happy with the way the Ireland Regions have been set up. So given that Politics is so intertwined within life in NI, I'd say it has depoliticised the situation.And yes there was Politics within the selection of which Country the caches in NI where listed under. They are now listed under a Historic Region, one which pre-dates the History of NI by many centuries. So can in no way be political.

 

Oh, I still do see this as a political decision regardless whatever you say about that ;-) We could do the same in Germany as there are still maps showing the borders as of 1936 but we do live now and not back in time as you seem to do :-)

 

For me it still looks like you are not willing to accept the actual status with actual borders of your regions and counties. And please don't tell me that the borders of England; Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland do change that often...

 

I'm with you that county borders might change from time to time but this happens everywhere in the world, not just in the UK.

 

So I still don't exactly understand why NI caches don't show UK but Ireland instead. For ME it looks like the ones forcing this decision wanted to show the world that they don't want to be part of UK but part of Ireland and if this isn't a political decision, what else is it?

 

monsterbox as you can see from the above, the UK is possibly the only place in the world, where County(State) boundaries are not fixed, and there is multiple versions of Boundaries in application at the same time. So unlike Germany or the US, we are not is a position of using Fixed Political Boundaries. So took a non political Geographical solution.

 

Sorry, but I still don't see that :-( The dates you told me are 1974 latest so why didn't you use the counties being in place from that on?

 

Oh and add in the fact that Germany is lucky to have 16 fixed States with fixed Boundaries. The UK has 150+ with flexible boundaries. And trying to use so many for designating a cache in the UK, would be a nightmare. Given that UK cachers struggle to designate the correct region at times.

 

It was 11 states some years ago and before that it was even less as the Saarland was French ;-) Then came Eastern Germany and we went to 16 states. Should we still show the eastern states as German Democratic Republic just because they were GDR longer than being GER now? And don't forget that we do have 400+ counties as well and they change borders from time to time, too!

 

The choice of Regions was never going to please everyone. Bit it was the only continually workable solution open to us.

 

In regards to those caches in NI still listed as being in the UK, it was decided at the time of implementation, to Grandfather In all such caches. Over time they will either be edited to Ulster Ireland, or will be Archived either by the Owner or by a Reviewer. But none will be forcibly edited.

 

You simply have been chosen borders that are history now and you do live in the past (at least within Geocaching). You don't accept actual borders, that's how it looks for me. Technically this might be easier as these borders can't change as they are already history. But I still don't agree.

 

I for sure will accept this decision as I don't live there and I don't feel that I have that many rights to complain...

 

And thanks a lot for all your explanations. It's good to hear how it came to this decision!

 

Bye,

Christian

[+The Other Stu]

And people like me in Bedfordshire who are for some things are East Midlands, East Anglia, Southern England, Home Counties and South-East England.

 

We're odd people, us!

 

And I drive 14 miles to work in the morning with something like 8 boundary changes.

[+Amberel]

The choice of Regions was never going to please everyone. Bit it was the only continually workable solution open to us.

Without particularly liking the arrangement I can understand the difficulties and accept most of what you say about the counties.

 

But can you say if there are any parts of the UK, other than NI, that are listed in the wrong country?

 

BTW, as I'm typing this the ads at the top right of the web page are showing half a dozen mostly naked ladies. I have no objection to this, but I wonder if it is Groundspeak's intention .

 

Rgds, Andy

[+keehotee]

But can you say if there are any parts of the UK, other than NI, that are listed in the wrong country?

 

 

Geographically, there are no other countries within the UK. Scotland and Wales are political entities - not geographical (any more than Devon/Cornwall are)

[+Happy Humphrey]

So I still don't exactly understand why NI caches don't show UK but Ireland instead. For ME it looks like the ones forcing this decision wanted to show the world that they don't want to be part of UK but part of Ireland and if this isn't a political decision, what else is it?

Grüß Gott, Christian.

 

As it's all been discussed so much, it's probably better to just accept it as unsatisfactory. It was probably going to be unsatisfactory to quite a few whichever way the decision was taken. Even some of the place names in NI can't be decided on, so what hope is there with borders?

 

I liked Munich very much on my visit last week - you're lucky to live there!

[+sTeamTraen]

So I still don't exactly understand why NI caches don't show UK but Ireland instead. For ME it looks like the ones forcing this decision wanted to show the world that they don't want to be part of UK but part of Ireland and if this isn't a political decision, what else is it?

[+Pharisee]

 

Grüß Gott, Christian.

 

Totally off-topic.... but interesting that you've used that particular form of greeting to a (presumably) German living in Munich. "Grüß Gott" is an Austrian greeting and from what my Austrian "other half" tells me, is unlikely to be used outside of the Tirol, even in Austria. Have you spent time there? It's a wonderful part of the world.

[+goldpot]

...problem solved; The UK has just bought Southern Ireland for £7,000,000,000 - we are all in it together now!!!

[+agentmancuso]

Geographically, there are no other countries within the UK. Scotland and Wales are political entities - not geographical (any more than Devon/Cornwall are)

 

Geographically, there are no countries anywhere. Countries are all political entities.

[+sTeamTraen]

Totally off-topic.... but interesting that you've used that particular form of greeting to a (presumably) German living in Munich. "Grüß Gott" is an Austrian greeting and from what my Austrian "other half" tells me, is unlikely to be used outside of the Tirol, even in Austria. Have you spent time there? It's a wonderful part of the world.

I hear it from about 10-20% of the people I walk past in the woods, especially people over 50, in the area around Baden-Baden and Freiburg, several states away from Tirol. A couple of local geocachers use the variant "Grüß dich". Teh Wiki has the details, as usual.

[+monsterbox]

Grüß Gott, Humphrey ;-)

 

So I still don't exactly understand why NI caches don't show UK but Ireland instead. For ME it looks like the ones forcing this decision wanted to show the world that they don't want to be part of UK but part of Ireland and if this isn't a political decision, what else is it?

Grüß Gott, Christian.

 

As it's all been discussed so much, it's probably better to just accept it as unsatisfactory. It was probably going to be unsatisfactory to quite a few whichever way the decision was taken. Even some of the place names in NI can't be decided on, so what hope is there with borders?

 

I liked Munich very much on my visit last week - you're lucky to live there!

 

In the end there's simply one thing I don't really understand: Why does NI show Ireland as country? I easily accept that they do use the old regions. But in that case I would just use UK, Ulster and Ireland, Ulster. In my eyes this would also solve the county issue, but as I previously said: I don't live there ;-)

 

Munich: Thanks a lot! I really like living in this nice town! Weather is o.k., mountains are close and even the ocean isn't that far :-) And Munich itself is a great place to live. Just a bit pricy...

 

Bye,

Christian

[+monsterbox]

Hi!

 

 

Grüß Gott, Christian.

 

Totally off-topic.... but interesting that you've used that particular form of greeting to a (presumably) German living in Munich. "Grüß Gott" is an Austrian greeting and from what my Austrian "other half" tells me, is unlikely to be used outside of the Tirol, even in Austria. Have you spent time there? It's a wonderful part of the world.

 

I'm sorry to say that your "other half" isn't exactly correct ;-) This kind of greeting isn't Austrian, it is Bavarian and as the people from Tirol in fact do speak the southern version of Bavarian it's not just them using it.

 

So in the end Humphrey was just perfect with his form of greeting. Another less formular version would have been "Servus" that you can use both for saying hello or goodbye.

 

And yes, I have been many times in Tirol and I do like it, too!

 

Bye,

Christian

[+Simply Paul]

Geographically, there are no other countries within the UK. Scotland and Wales are political entities - not geographical (any more than Devon/Cornwall are)

Geographically, there are no countries anywhere. Countries are all political entities.

True, but an island is an island and Ireland is Ireland. As a non-political geographic body, it's only border is the sea. Calling NI Irish isn't the same as calling it a part of the ROI. It's both Irish and a part of the UK- Groundspeak have chosen to list it by island, not country. On this basis, technically the UK should be listed as GB. Discuss

[+somloci]

On this basis, technically the UK should be listed as GB. Discuss

 

Well spotted.

Grüß Gott, well, that's the only term I hear/use when I'm in Burgenland, that's the most eastenly bit of Austria.

[+redsox_mark]

Groundspeak have chosen to list it by island, not country. On this basis, technically the UK should be listed as GB. Discuss

 

I was thinking just the same thing myself (before I saw this post). It is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

 

I have read all the references given in earlier posts. And I've not cached in NI and it doesn't bother me either way. It just seems strange however, that each cache in the word is assigned a country - and if you are going to have the UK as a country, then it should include NI.

 

Showing NI as Ireland is a bit like showing Alaska as "Canada", as it is only connected to Canada, not the USA. (OK, I know it's more complicated than that).

 

I wonder:

 

- If there are any other places in the world which are listed in a different county from that where they belong (based on recognised political boundaries).

 

I do see that Groundspeak has more countries than are recognised countries by the UN... for example Gibraltar is shown as a country in it's own right; not as a British overseas territory, nor as part of Spain. Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man are all "countries" in Groundspeak's world. But that seems OK to me; it's different than listing the area in the wrong country.

 

As has been said - "country" is a political concept, not a geographic one.

[+speakers-corner]

 

Grüß Gott, Christian.

 

Totally off-topic.... but interesting that you've used that particular form of greeting to a (presumably) German living in Munich. "Grüß Gott" is an Austrian greeting and from what my Austrian "other half" tells me, is unlikely to be used outside of the Tirol, even in Austria. Have you spent time there? It's a wonderful part of the world.

 

Sorry to throw you on this but "Grüß Gott" is used widely in southern Germany. where as in Austria and the northern part of Italy (Süd Tirol) they also say "Grüß Gott" or "Ferti". This is something I am having to get used to since moving from Lower Saxony. All in Fun, I hope

[+speakers-corner]

Branching this out a bit further. What happens to towns that are in two countries? For example Görlitz is in Eastern Germany and in Poland. I havent had a look, but where are the Caches there? When I cache I dont care, a cache is a cache regardless of where it is, as long as my wife and I have had fun finding it.

[+monsterbox]

Hi!

 

 

Grüß Gott, Christian.

 

Totally off-topic.... but interesting that you've used that particular form of greeting to a (presumably) German living in Munich. "Grüß Gott" is an Austrian greeting and from what my Austrian "other half" tells me, is unlikely to be used outside of the Tirol, even in Austria. Have you spent time there? It's a wonderful part of the world.

 

Sorry to throw you on this but "Grüß Gott" is used widely in southern Germany. where as in Austria and the northern part of Italy (Süd Tirol) they also say "Grüß Gott" or "Ferti". This is something I am having to get used to since moving from Lower Saxony. All in Fun, I hope

 

O.k., lets simply say that "Grüß Gott" is widely used in areas where catholic is the main religion and language is german (or something similar to it ;-)

 

This covers southern Bavaria, southern Baden-Württemberg, big parts of Austria and even Südtirol.

 

And coming back to my original post this has nothing to do with Geocaching regions ;-)

 

And "Ferti" more would be "Pfiadi" ;-) But this is a question of the exact dialect been spoken in your area...

 

Bye,

Christian

[+redsox_mark]

Branching this out a bit further. What happens to towns that are in two countries? For example Görlitz is in Eastern Germany and in Poland. I havent had a look, but where are the Caches there? When I cache I dont care, a cache is a cache regardless of where it is, as long as my wife and I have had fun finding it.

 

The ones on the German side of the border are listed as Germany, and the ones on the Polish side as Poland. There is a national border there; it doesn't matter that the town has the same name on both sides.

[+Simply Paul]

Same would go for Istanbul, with caches on two continents. But then, they're one in only one country...

[+dino-irl]

I've been away for a few days so I've missed much of this so apologies for not following up.

 

Using the historical boundaries in Ireland *did* remove politics from caching in NI. Prior to this some cachers were choosing UK or Ireland depending on political persuasions and backgrounds thereby making a political statement using their cache listing. This caused discomfort among many in the NI caching community.

 

Ulster is a description that is used to describe NI by those in all communities. Some use it to describe only the 6 counties (which incidentally don't officially exist any more) and some use it to describe the 9 counties. As Ulster pre-dates all upheavals in Ireland by hundreds of years it is a non-political designation that everyone seems to be happy with. Ulster is very neutral way of describing the northern area of the island of Ireland.

 

Incidentally Ireland is not actually a country. As Simply Paul stated above it is an island, a geographical entity but not a country. It is comprised of two countries, UK and RoI.

 

The use of the 4 traditional provinces plus Dublin works for cachers in Ireland and although I understand you can't see the reasoning it works for us.

[+dino-irl]

So I still don't exactly understand why NI caches don't show UK but Ireland instead. For ME it looks like the ones forcing this decision wanted to show the world that they don't want to be part of UK but part of Ireland and if this isn't a political decision, what else is it?

I don't know how to explain it any further then. You don't seem to be able to accept the reasons why it was done this way. I guess maybe you need to live here to understand why as it always seems to be visitors from outside of Ireland that have problems with it. Everyone here seems to understand it and be happy with how the system works.

[+currykev]

I just wonder why the Northern Ireland caches show Ireland as country instead of United Kingdom.

 

"Give Ireland Back to the Irish" is a Paul and Linda McCartney song written in response to the events of Bloody Sunday in Northern Ireland on 30 January 1972.

 

Maybe they're now listening.

[+redsox_mark]

Using the historical boundaries in Ireland *did* remove politics from caching in NI. Prior to this some cachers were choosing UK or Ireland depending on political persuasions and backgrounds thereby making a political statement using their cache listing. This caused discomfort among many in the NI caching community.

 

To me this is the root cause of this - and also why a solution which seems odd to those outside Ireland may make sense. It seems very odd to me that cachers were allowed to chose which country to list as. But they were. And then that was causing problems. So given that, perhaps the agreed solution was the best compromise.

[+FollowMeChaps]

I'm just curious can't you enter whatever region you want for your own caches? Like most folk around me we list our caches as the South West even though Groundspeak mistakenly think it's the South. Could I not list mine as Germany if I chose?

[+redsox_mark]

I'm just curious can't you enter whatever region you want for your own caches? Like most folk around me we list our caches as the South West even though Groundspeak mistakenly think it's the South. Could I not list mine as Germany if I chose?

 

I don't think so. Well, I think you can; but the cache will go to a reviewer in Germany, who won't publish it as it is not in Germany.

 

Hmm.... now what would happen if you try and change the country to Germany after it is published???

[+Guanajuato]

Hi!

It doesn't break the maps if you use the right ones

 

In fact it broke BOTH maps I used ;-) The "Ireland" map shows NI caches, too and the UK map doesn't show any NI caches. So that's two broken maps in the end :-)

 

I think This One is the map Dino was meaning - it's GB & Ireland together. That was done specifically to address the issues.

 

As for the constantly changing political boundaries in the UK, its easier to just ignore it and get on with life. Just to give you some idea - By the age of 2, without moving I'd lived in 2 counties (Warwickshire & West Midlands), then we moved to another county, that then changed (Worcesterhire to Hereford & Worcester). I spent most of my childhood in Sheffield, South Yorkshire, but my Dad grew up in Sheffield, West Riding of Yorkshire. I went to Bradford University in West Yorkshire, but that was historically the West Riding too. (I think, but may be wrong, that west yorkshire no longer exists) My parents moved to Harrogate, North Yorkshire, but that was historically in the West Riding. My Brother moved to York, North Yorkshire less than 10 years ago, but now York is no longer in North Yorkshire. Middlesbrough has variously been in North Riding of Yorkshire, Cleveland, Teeside, Cleveland and possibly now a 'county' of its own. I worked for a time in the mid-90s for BASF on Teeside, which now doesn't exist. I now live in Kendal, which was in Westmorland, but is in Cumbria, and was allegedly at one point in Strathclyde, so it COULD be scottish!?. A nearby town of Sedbergh has in recent history been part of Yorkshire, Lancashire and Cumbria. A friend grew up in Oakham, Leicestershire, but its now in Rutland. There's a possibility of further major changes occurring in the near future too.

[+Simply Paul]

I just wonder why the Northern Ireland caches show Ireland as country instead of United Kingdom.

"Give Ireland Back to the Irish" is a Paul and Linda McCartney song written in response to the events of Bloody Sunday in Northern Ireland on 30 January 1972.

 

Maybe they're now listening.

You could equally say 'give Britain back to the British' but that just sounds a bit racist and EDL, doesn't it? Anyway, as dino-irl says, since there's no country called Ireland, only an island called Ireland, and Northern Ireland is on it (the hint is in the name) the caching argument is a bit superfluous. Perhaps 'territory' would be a better description of the GC.com subdivisions of the world rather than country. I find it easier to accept Guernsey as a territory than a country, because it's not a county, it's a Baliwick and like Gibraltar, a Crown Dependency. Country as a word has strings attached, territory seems more geographic and less a political construct to me.

[+The Blorenges]

I can see how some overseas cachers get a bit bemused by all this so maybe it's time for a re-rethink and a re-renaming session for the whole of UK and Ireland?

 

Henceforth

 

The SW peninsula (Cornwall, Devon, Somerset and Dorset) will be the Pasty Eaters and Cider Swillers.

 

Draw a line roughly along the M4. The area south and east of it becomes the You Know (nudge, nudge) The "Down There" Parts.

 

Draw another line from Liverpool to Hull.

 

South of that is obviously the Middle Bit. North of that up to the Scottish border (now renamed The Line Between Solway and Berwick) is Flat Caps and Whippets.

 

Draw another line from Liverpool to Bristol.

 

The sticky-out bit to the west is obviously Ere Be Dragons.

 

The place north of the LBSB can be neatly split into North Haggis and South Haggis.

 

The whole of the Island Formerly Known As Ireland will be Guinness.

 

(All other smaller islands will all come under the general heading of the Bits Dropping Off.)

 

OK? I know it might need a bit of refinement but who could possibly argue with it?

 

MrsB

[+Bear and Ragged]

Could do as the BBC do with their weather forecast.

(Excluding the bit now known as Guiness-land)

 

North.

South.

East.

West.

 

With a big hole for the parts previously known as 'the Midlands'

[+sTeamTraen]

I'm just curious can't you enter whatever region you want for your own caches? Like most folk around me we list our caches as the South West even though Groundspeak mistakenly think it's the South.

Groundspeak has no idea in which "region" of the UK your cache is located. There are no digitized maps anywhere to detect where your cache is located and apply an appropriate region code. Groundspeak just provides a dropdown list. (So once again, the Americans are innocent on a UK geography issue. )

 

The UK regions were drawn up by the reviewers of the time a few years ago, along with a map which basically shows where the county (another can of worms there) and regional boundaries meet. There are indeed one or two choices of county/region which raise eyebrows from time to time, but it's all down to that map.

Could I not list mine as Germany if I chose?

I don't think so. Well, I think you can; but the cache will go to a reviewer in Germany, who won't publish it as it is not in Germany.

 

Hmm.... now what would happen if you try and change the country to Germany after it is published???

There's always the chance that the German reviewer might be in a hurry and not spot that the coordinates aren't in Germany, but in general, they will either post a note and ask you to change the coordinates, or just change the country to UK and then the UK reviewers will see it.

 

Note that it's almost possible, for some locations in the UK, to simply swap West and East, and end up in Germany. If you place a cache on the Devon/Cornwall border and choose Belgium as the country, and also use E instead of W for the longitude by mistake, there's a good chance that the local reviewer will publish it as-is (English-only cache descriptions are not unknown in Belgium); perhaps the fact that your home coordinates are some way from the cache might save you.

 

If you change the country after publication, you will discover just how many obsessive cache listing collectors there are out there, poring over GSAK night after night looking for anomalies. Someone will spot it (although it's more likely that someone reading the cache listing will spot it, but that's so prosaic) and you will get an "a-hem" note from a reviewer.

[+monsterbox]

Hi!

 

So I still don't exactly understand why NI caches don't show UK but Ireland instead. For ME it looks like the ones forcing this decision wanted to show the world that they don't want to be part of UK but part of Ireland and if this isn't a political decision, what else is it?

I don't know how to explain it any further then. You don't seem to be able to accept the reasons why it was done this way. I guess maybe you need to live here to understand why as it always seems to be visitors from outside of Ireland that have problems with it. Everyone here seems to understand it and be happy with how the system works.

 

This might be true. But I still don't fully understand it :-)

 

You are the only ones in the whole world NOT having their country been shown but the name of the island you're living on. So please don't tell me that's easy to understand ;-) I do understand that you're fine using the historical regions and I definitely don't blame you that for. But what I still don't understand (and probably NEVER will understand) why you don't use Ireland (or Republic of Ireland) and UK in addition to the old regions.

 

This would easily fit into the rest of the world's usage of these data fields. For me there's no real reason NOT to do it that way and that's exactly why I don't understand what you are doing now... It would be similar if I would need to use "Europe" or "The continent" instead of Germany! For me this would be absolutely ridiculous ;-)

 

Bye,

Christian

[+NickandAliandEliza]

Real answer - Americans don't do geography!

Actually, if you think about it, you'll notice that geography is the key component of the solution which has been found to a complex issue here, and the good people from Groundspeak were very much involved in this.

 

I think we need a separate, pinned thread in here entitled "Post absurd generalisations about Americans here". When people feel the need to say that Americans are stupid, or prudish, or ignorant of history or geography, it could be done in there. If it's successful, we could maybe add another one for various other nationalities, and then move on to ethnic groups. I think I'll go and suggest it on the Feedback tab.

 

I know one that thinks she has friends in North Korea.

[+dino-irl]

But what I still don't understand (and probably NEVER will understand) why you don't use Ireland (or Republic of Ireland) and UK in addition to the old regions.

You may have missed this bit in my other post:

 

Using the historical boundaries in Ireland *did* remove politics from caching in NI. Prior to this some cachers were choosing UK or Ireland depending on political persuasions and backgrounds thereby making a political statement using their cache listing. This caused discomfort among many in the NI caching community.