Attention Challenge Hunters

[+Keith Watson]

For those hunting for GC1Z9GR - DT Bingo Challenge or GC1WAZB - Difficulty 5 (Ontario Mini-Fizzy 9 Challenge) , they have been archived.

 

Since I have placed these caches I have come to the conclusion that because of the restrictions in the requirements that these caches are not really fair to everyone. I would rather my caches be found and enjoyed by everyone. To be fair to the people that have found it I will be archiving the cache rather than removing the restrictions. To anyone who has been trying to complete the requirements I apologize and hope you visit the new listing for the cache and enjoy the find.

 

Happy caching.

[+Paul n Susan]

The one mini-fizzy that we have not yet qualified for was yours, so we're a little sad to see it go. However, we respect your choice on this matter.

 

We think there is value in challenge caches with restrictions ... there is one very near to our home that is often debated that we will likely never log, but we love it. Having said that, one of the nicest caches that we logged this year was a terrific Earthcache in Niagara Falls, part of an awesome day, and I know that the CO takes pride in its accessibility and the variety of cachers that have logged it.

 

We'd like to see the D-5 cache reincarnated, hopefully in our neighbourhood the week that we meet the challenge. We enjoy these challenge caches.

 

However, I hope that everyone respects your choice to archive these caches. The biggest challenge is to shake off the pressures of everyday life and get out and cache and have fun. Hope to meet that challenge this weekend.

[+narcissa]

It would be nice to see Groundspeak come up with another way to acknowledge challenges.

[+GPS Derek]

"the restrictions in the requirements that these caches are not really fair to everyone"

 

This statement confuses me! What requirements make it unfair for everyone? The requirements are the same for all are they not? If you meet the requirements then you can log the find on the cache after you actually find the cache. If you don't... move to the next nearest cache. We all have our limitations.

 

If it is the fact that you have find a certain group of caches then I think you need to archive you puzzle caches too. Say I don't do word searches, that makes your word search puzzle cache unfair to me.

 

If it's published dates, the restriction on the bingo challenge is only 14 months old... a bit more of a challenge but I'm sure still possible. There is another challenge cache (not wanting to discuss that one, it's been done) that has an earlier restriction date that is still challenging those who wish.

 

Is it something else?

 

These challenge caches make us grow as cachers! I have completed both and am very proud of that.

 

Before these were published I had no plans for a canoe cache but that has changed, maybe not for the better but… I still have no plans to go for scuba caches or one's that I have to use ropes to climb to the top of train towers but you never know.

 

Because of challenge caches I have formed many a friendships, not only with the 2 that I cache mostly but with so many others too.

 

You are fully entitled to your decision but personally I wish you would reconsider and keep the challenge going. If you wish not to maintain them then offer them up for adoption, in the east end I would happily look after them.

 

Again, it is your choice.

[+Keith Watson]

To start off I will include a note posted to Difficulty 5 (Ontario Mini-Fizzy 9 Challenge).

 

November 18 by thebruce0 (754 found)

 

"I hope someone will volunteer to adopt this cache, since it really is a part of the series of Fizzy caches, and honestly one of the more fun and accessible challenge caches. I don't see why it had to be archived, but obviously the CO doesn't feel obliged to keep it active for people who would still like to log it (following the same guidelines as the rest of the fizzy challenges in this team effort).

I would offer to adopt, but I'm too far away to maintain it. It's unfortunate, these circumstances. But I guess c'est la vie."

 

Archived caches cannot be adopted out. It was archived for a reason which I stated in the archival notice and this forum thread. All good things come to and end as this cache did. If I wanted to adopt the cache out, I would have. I like the location and container and apparently so do the finders on the replacement listing. As far as obligation, I have a greater obligation to be honest and fair to myself as well as my fellow cachers.

 

"the restrictions in the requirements that these caches are not really fair to everyone"

 

This statement confuses me! What requirements make it unfair for everyone? The requirements are the same for all are they not?

 

In fact if you read the requirements you will see they are not fair to everyone. Not all caches are available to all cachers. Look again and you will notice that both caches state that all find must be after the date the cache was placed. Because of this, if a cacher went out on a binge the week before and found a number of rare combination, they would not be able to use them to qualify for the cache. Where as the lucky cacher that waited that extra day or two to go find those very same caches would be able to use them. A few cachers pointed that out to me shortly after I placed the caches and over time I agree that the restrictions is not fair to all cachers.

 

If it is the fact that you have find a certain group of caches then I think you need to archive you puzzle caches too. Say I don't do word searches, that makes your word search puzzle cache unfair to me.

 

There is no restrictions on any of my puzzle caches other than solve the puzzle. Every one gets the same information. if you can't solve the puzzle, ask for help. Simple enough to me. It does not compare a restriction in the listing that makes it any more difficult for you than anyone else. I have chosen to archive my own caches. I am not suggesting anyone else archive a cache just because I can't or chose not to.

 

You are fully entitled to your decision but personally I wish you would reconsider and keep the challenge going. If you wish not to maintain them then offer them up for adoption, in the east end I would happily look after them.

 

As I said, adoption is out of the question for the reason provided. If the cache was so important, then you or anyone else is free to place your own version of it.

[+dfx]

It would be nice to see Groundspeak come up with another way to acknowledge challenges.

the problem isn't that the challenges are linked to caches, the problem lies in the challenges themselves. if there was another "official" way to complete challenges, it would suffer from the same problems.

[+Keith Watson]

I agree. I found the last f my 81 combinations in the summer on the top of a mountain overlooking Banff Alberta. Do all my finds meet the requirement for fizzy type challenge caches with a date restriction, no. Does that mean accomplishment is any less of an accomplishment compared to another cacher that met the date requirement, no. As an owner of a challenge cache I personally don't like the idea of telling others their accomplishments are less than others just because of a date in a listing.

 

If you look at that date, it is there to stop people from cheating. That implies that people will cheat if it is not there. Not a nice premise to base a cache on. I can't make exemptions because that would be imposing my own standards on others which again would put me in the position of telling other people whether they have rated their cache correctly or not.

[+thebruce0]

Do all my finds meet the requirement for fizzy type challenge caches with a date restriction, no. Does that mean accomplishment is any less of an accomplishment compared to another cacher that met the date requirement, no.

Of course it doesn't mean it's less of an accomplishment. But it doesn't mean that suddenly by completing the grid you are thereby awarded completion status for each and every grid challenge that is currently available in the GC database. If the CO puts out a challenge cache with a date restriction, that doesn't degrade anyone's find accomplishment, it only puts an added challenge on completing that cache's requirements - which, once again, is not a cache that every person is required to find; only by their own choice.

 

But again, the decision for any challenge cache as to whether it's fair or not is ultimately up to the CO. So in your cache, you're perfectly in your right to retire your own caches for that reason. But to imply that any challenge cache with a date restriction is unfair to geocachers in general is a broad and presumptuous statement that's only going to inflame debates and emotions (as has been demonstrated).

 

You want your caches to be as accessible to everyone as possible - that's great.

Putting other CO's or caches down for having date restrictions (even saying they are unfair) is a step too far.

 

I haven't looked at the replacement cache yet, but I'm sure I will soon enough, and likely log it next time I'm in the area - if indeed it is "more fair" than the previous, I've likely already qualified. =P

 

PS. Sulphur Mountain is an amazing cache! Beautiful! I logged it this summer as well.

Edited November 25, 2010 by thebruce0

[+t4e]

I agree. I found the last f my 81 combinations in the summer on the top of a mountain overlooking Banff Alberta. Do all my finds meet the requirement for fizzy type challenge caches with a date restriction, no. Does that mean accomplishment is any less of an accomplishment compared to another cacher that met the date requirement, no. As an owner of a challenge cache I personally don't like the idea of telling others their accomplishments are less than others just because of a date in a listing.

 

If you look at that date, it is there to stop people from cheating. That implies that people will cheat if it is not there. Not a nice premise to base a cache on. I can't make exemptions because that would be imposing my own standards on others which again would put me in the position of telling other people whether they have rated their cache correctly or not.

 

couldn't have said it better myself

 

 

Do all my finds meet the requirement for fizzy type challenge caches with a date restriction, no. Does that mean accomplishment is any less of an accomplishment compared to another cacher that met the date requirement, no.

Of course it doesn't mean it's less of an accomplishment. But it doesn't mean that suddenly by completing the grid you are thereby awarded completion status for each and every grid challenge that is currently available in the GC database. If the CO puts out a challenge cache with a date restriction, that doesn't degrade anyone's find accomplishment, it only puts an added challenge on completing that cache's requirements - which, once again, is not a cache that every person is required to find; only by their own choice.

 

But again, the decision for any challenge cache as to whether it's fair or not is ultimately up to the CO. So in your cache, you're perfectly in your right to retire your own caches for that reason. But to imply that any challenge cache with a date restriction is unfair to geocachers in general is a broad and presumptuous statement that's only going to inflame debates and emotions (as has been demonstrated).

 

You want your caches to be as accessible to everyone as possible - that's great.

Putting other CO's or caches down for having date restrictions (even saying they are unfair) is a step too far.

 

I haven't looked at the replacement cache yet, but I'm sure I will soon enough, and likely log it next time I'm in the area - if indeed it is "more fair" than the previous, I've likely already qualified. =P

 

PS. Sulphur Mountain is an amazing cache! Beautiful! I logged it this summer as well.

 

i fail to see where Keith mentioned any other cache, he's strictly talking about his own and the date restriction on it , but please do point it out if i missed it

 

i have to agree that inderectly it does make one feel that their accomplishment is less simply because of the restrictions but i also agree that we don't have to find all caches or complete all challenges

at the end of the day i have a right to consider a challenge "unfair", and that can be for many reasons

 

what bothers me the most in this whole thing, also going on in the other thread, is how people seem to be incapable to discuss things like adults, instead its all going kidergartden style running to the teacher crrying that so and so is not playing nice

[+Keith Watson]

But it doesn't mean that suddenly by completing the grid you are thereby awarded completion status for each and every grid challenge that is currently available in the GC database.

 

I didn't say it did.

 

If the CO puts out a challenge cache with a date restriction, that doesn't degrade anyone's find accomplishment

 

Again, I didn't say that. I am talking about a specific date restriction that existed in both of the challenge caches I archived.

 

But again, the decision for any challenge cache as to whether it's fair or not is ultimately up to the CO. So in your cache, you're perfectly in your right to retire your own caches for that reason.

 

That is correct and I made my decision any anyone posting that goes against an obligation I have to not do so is not respecting that.

 

But to imply that any challenge cache with a date restriction is unfair to geocachers in general is a broad and presumptuous statement that's only going to inflame debates and emotions (as has been demonstrated).

 

If you go back and read my posts on this subject I have clearly pointed out the problem is with a specific date restrictions in these two caches. I have not stated or implied that any challenge cache with a date restriction is unfair to geocachers.

[+Ara 'K"]

this is too much... no wonder I rarely read anything in the forums

[+Flintstone5611]

Whatever the reason, it is no ones business why a CO archives their own cache. Thanks for all your great caches Keith, old and new!

 

If someone wants to make a Difficulty 5 mini Fizzy challenge or something similar, they can go right ahead. I can go and make a Flintstone81 (actually that has a nice ring to it) or some other cache and no matter what anyone says, if it falls in line with the guidelines for placing a cache, then it is good to go!