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Golden Ammo Can


mollyjak

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I have had some discussions with the Mega Wales Committee regarding the taking of the Mega Ammo Can to small Events for people to discover and to advertise the Mega itself. Although I encourage the advertising of Mega Wales I have some strong opinions myself on this, but also think it is a question for the whole Caching Community to give an opinion on

 

Golden Ammo Can

 

What does it mean to the caching community?

Who owns it (Icarus, the Current Mega Committee or the wider Caching community)?

Should it be taken to minor events and if so does this de-value its purpose or not?

If it is taken to minor events to be discovered, what is the point of having it at all or does it just become another discoverable object and not something unique as it was originally?

Is it and should it stay just a unique feature of the Mega Event and only discovered at such events?

 

I think these are such important issues that will be relevant to future Mega committee I thought I would ask these questions before any further actions might be taken.

I and I'm sure that Mega Wales Committee will look forward with interest how people feel regarding this issue

 

Regards

 

Tony

Edited by mollyjak
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I have had some discussions with the Mega Wales Committee regarding the taking of the Mega Ammo Can to small Events for people to discover and to advertise the Mega itself. Although I encourage the advertising of Mega Wales I have some strong opinions myself on this, but also think it is a question for the whole Caching Community to give an opinion on

 

Golden Ammo Can

 

What does it mean to the caching community?

Who owns it (Icarus, the Current Mega Committee or the wider Caching community)?

Should it be taken to minor events and if so does this de-value its purpose or not?

If it is taken to minor events to be discovered, what is the point of having it at all or does it just become another discoverable object and not something unique as it was originally?

Is it and should it stay just a unique feature of the Mega Event and only discovered at such events?

 

I think these are such important issues that will be relevant to future Mega committee I thought I would ask these questions before any further actions might be taken.

I and I'm sure that Mega Wales Committee will look forward with interest how people feel regarding this issue

 

Regards

 

Tony

 

I have no idea what it is .. nor have I ever heard of the "Golden Ammo Can" could you enlighten me please Tony :blink:

 

M :huh:

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I have had some discussions with the Mega Wales Committee regarding the taking of the Mega Ammo Can to small Events for people to discover and to advertise the Mega itself. Although I encourage the advertising of Mega Wales I have some strong opinions myself on this, but also think it is a question for the whole Caching Community to give an opinion on

 

Golden Ammo Can

 

What does it mean to the caching community?

Who owns it (Icarus, the Current Mega Committee or the wider Caching community)?

Should it be taken to minor events and if so does this de-value its purpose or not?

If it is taken to minor events to be discovered, what is the point of having it at all or does it just become another discoverable object and not something unique as it was originally?

Is it and should it stay just a unique feature of the Mega Event and only discovered at such events?

 

I think these are such important issues that will be relevant to future Mega committee I thought I would ask these questions before any further actions might be taken.

I and I'm sure that Mega Wales Committee will look forward with interest how people feel regarding this issue

 

Regards

 

Tony

 

I thought passing on the ammo can was supposed to be symbolic of passing on the headache mantle to successive Mega committees - surely taking it to every event a member of the next committee attends is going to belittle that, and take away any special significance it has?

 

As you say, it becomes just another discoverable on the table. You might as well run printouts of the can and coin numbers and hand them out.... :blink: . :huh:

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What does it mean to the caching community?

Who owns it (Icarus, the Current Mega Committee or the wider Caching community)?

Should it be taken to minor events and if so does this de-value its purpose or not?

If it is taken to minor events to be discovered, what is the point of having it at all or does it just become another discoverable object and not something unique as it was originally?

Is it and should it stay just a unique feature of the Mega Event and only discovered at such events?

 

(My vote/answers would be.............)

 

Only those who were at the closing ceremony of previous Mega events have caught sight of this rare gold ammo box. Lets keep it rare!

Owned by the current UK Mega Committee

Don't think it has ever been taken to minor events before so why change this?

It is not unique if it does go to other events, so yes will devalue it.

Yes it is unique to the UK Mega's and should stay that way.

 

(Its goal on the page says to travel from one UK Mega Event to the next - doesn't mention any other events!!)

 

Mandy - It is a gold ammo box - contains coins issued by each Mega, handed over to the next Mega committee at the closing ceremony.

HERE

Edited by perth pathfinders
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As chairman of the Mega 2009 committee, I thought I would give my opinion.

 

At one of our committee meetings, we discussed the idea of having something to pass onto future Mega events and to hold a bit of history (rather than just a cache page). The idea of a time capsule was muted and Berrow Cachers mentioned that when she lived in the US they gave cachers a golden ammo can for milestones.

 

We all thought this was a brilliant idea and gained permission from Groundspeak to use the Mega icon. Icarus donated the ammo can and his sons helped him to decorate it.

 

The plan was that each of the UK Mega Event committees put something in the ammo can from that Mega Event and then hand it over to the next committee. It currently holds a set of activated geocoins from the first three UK Mega Events along with a few items for posterity.

 

Our committee felt that it would become a much sought after Travel Bug that could be discovered by anyone – if you were luckily enough to spot it.

 

It is the responsibility of the current UK Mega Event committee to keep it, and the contents, safe.

 

Personally, I feel it will loose its ‘uniqueness’ if it is seen anywhere other than at the UK Mega events …… and is going to be even more valuable as time goes on.

 

If anyone wants to discover it, they will need to attend and support the UK Mega Event. :blink:

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As chairman of the Mega 2009 committee, I thought I would give my opinion.

 

At one of our committee meetings, we discussed the idea of having something to pass onto future Mega events and to hold a bit of history (rather than just a cache page). The idea of a time capsule was muted and Berrow Cachers mentioned that when she lived in the US they gave cachers a golden ammo can for milestones.

 

We all thought this was a brilliant idea and gained permission from Groundspeak to use the Mega icon. Icarus donated the ammo can and his sons helped him to decorate it.

 

The plan was that each of the UK Mega Event committees put something in the ammo can from that Mega Event and then hand it over to the next committee. It currently holds a set of activated geocoins from the first three UK Mega Events along with a few items for posterity.

 

Our committee felt that it would become a much sought after Travel Bug that could be discovered by anyone – if you were luckily enough to spot it.

 

It is the responsibility of the current UK Mega Event committee to keep it, and the contents, safe.

 

Personally, I feel it will loose its ‘uniqueness’ if it is seen anywhere other than at the UK Mega events …… and is going to be even more valuable as time goes on.

 

If anyone wants to discover it, they will need to attend and support the UK Mega Event. :blink:

I agree with this completely. The tin should only be available at the UK Mega events.

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I had seen the Golden Ammo Can at the Mega Events but I wasn't even aware it was a travel bug... until now.

 

Looking at its home page, it says "To travel from one UK Mega Event to the next..."

 

Most travel bugs wander all about on their journeys as they go from one location towards another.

 

The owner is "UK Mega Event Committee".

 

My vote: Let each UK Mega Event Committee, in turn, decide how and where it should move.

 

As long as they don't lose it I don't think it's that important!

 

MrsB :blink:

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I have had some discussions with the Mega Wales Committee regarding the taking of the Mega Ammo Can to small Events for people to discover and to advertise the Mega itself. Although I encourage the advertising of Mega Wales I have some strong opinions myself on this, but also think it is a question for the whole Caching Community to give an opinion on

 

Golden Ammo Can

 

What does it mean to the caching community?

Who owns it (Icarus, the Current Mega Committee or the wider Caching community)?

Should it be taken to minor events and if so does this de-value its purpose or not?

If it is taken to minor events to be discovered, what is the point of having it at all or does it just become another discoverable object and not something unique as it was originally?

Is it and should it stay just a unique feature of the Mega Event and only discovered at such events?

 

I think these are such important issues that will be relevant to future Mega committee I thought I would ask these questions before any further actions might be taken.

I and I'm sure that Mega Wales Committee will look forward with interest how people feel regarding this issue

 

Regards

 

Tony

 

I have no idea what it is .. nor have I ever heard of the "Golden Ammo Can" could you enlighten me please Tony :blink:

 

M :huh:

 

 

Your question shows one of the best reasons why we (the 2011 Mega Committee) thought that the Golden Ammo Can deserved to be seen more. Since you were at the Scottish Mega and it was logged in there, you may well wonder why you hadn't seen it there. But you are not alone, there are only three 'discovery' logs at that event. The Can was kindly donated to the UK Mega Committee by Icarus and Berrow Cachers at the time of the Weston Mega, but there are only five logs on or about this date … and one of those is one of its donors and another is the representative of the Scottish Committee grabbing it.

Over more than two years there are only 23 logs and most of the cachers who have held it or discovered it are members of the various incarnations of the UK Mega Committee. It is surely not right that its appearances should be so exclusive. From other comments on this thread, this was never the intention. While its goal is indeed to travel from Mega to Mega, it does not say that it should not stop off at intermediate calling points on the way.

The Can has already been shown off at at least two other non-Mega events, so our intention to take it to an event in Devizes this weekend is not without precedent. In fact it has been discovered at one non-Mega event more times than at any other event. What is really strange, is that this event was “Meet the Dragons” where, although it was not logged in or out, it was shown off by the then chairman of our committee – none other than the cacher now questioning our proposed course of action. Now I wonder why that is?

Before deciding to give the Can greater exposure, we thought it wise to consult the original donors, who raised no objection and, because it has been discovered by few people from its home area, the Devizes event seemed a good opportunity to rectify this omission.

The Can is a Travel Bug and contains memorabilia from all UK Megas to date, including all event geocoins.

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Should it not have been out on display at Perth to be discovered ?

 

Instead of just bringing it out for the handover to the next mega comittee

 

Had the committee not been so busy running around like headless chickens, then yes possibly it should have been considered - the same for Harrogate and Weston.

 

However, it is a big responsibility for somebody to have with it being full of coins, and as each Mega closes, the collection is going to increase - therefore it is not something to be left alone on a table.

Edited by perth pathfinders
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I feel that I have to reply to Write of Mane’s post as they seem to be questioning my integrity in all of this.

It has surprised me that they have now chosen to reply after ignoring several emails this morning regarding this matter from me.

That apart, the post so far has given some feeling regarding the wishes of cachers who have and are involved in this issue. Maple Leaf explained the origins of the Ammo Can very well in her post but this seems to be lost by W&M

I was unaware that the can had been to more than one event, the only one I was aware of was the launch event of Mega Wales so very appropriate being still a recognised MEGA related Event, the Second was on the Friday, the day before Mega Scotland which was also a MEGA related Event.

I am unsure what kind of underhand motive W&M have me down for, but if they actually read all the post including mine they would see that I have simply asked questions and not expressed my opinion either way I recognised that others in the Caching community would have concerns and opinions regarding this and simply facilitated the discussion.

W&M you inferred that I have some ulterior motive for this, my wife and I were probably the most active supporters of Mega Wales, Lilian raised 70% of the monies currently sitting in the Mega Committee account; I have clocked up thousands of miles promoting and fund raising for Mega Wales. It was only due to some serious health issues that we resigned.,

I do however believe that the Golden Ammo can should only be for Mega Events it was created to be unique and you seem perfectly happy to ignore everyone and spoil that.

Is it now your committee’s policy that nobody may ask questions and you are not answerable to the caching community?

 

Tony

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The golden ammo can was an idea that came from and was funded by the WSM committee.

 

It was intended to be a symbolic item handed from UK Mega to UK Mega. It was never intended for anything other than Mega Events.

 

I personally feel taking it to other events belittles the special value of the can and what it represents and think it's a real shame if it gets taken all over the shop like a regular TB - it will loose something of it's unique quality.

 

When we as as a committee designed and made it, we were well aware that we would loose control of it's purpose once we handed it on, but I thought that I would reiterate the original intent of the can so that others know what it was designed to be used for.

 

I for one will only look at it at Megas.

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At Weston Mega, the Golden ammo can was on display at the registration desk for the whole of the event .... until it was handed onto the Scottish committee at the closing ceremony. If I remember correctly, it then sat on the stage until Mega Scotland took it at the end of the day.

 

So anybody could have discovered it if they had their eyes open :blink:

 

Icarus and Berrow Cachers donated the can to the UK Mega Committee (and were reimbursed the cost of the TB) .... so I don't feel that they have any greater say over the rest of the committee members for the past three years.

 

The fact that some committee members from the past Mega Events have already made their views known in this thread ... I feel that should be respected and the only go to Mega Events (or events associated to the Mega events).

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I feel that I have to reply to Write of Mane’s post as they seem to be questioning my integrity in all of this.

It has surprised me that they have now chosen to reply after ignoring several emails this morning regarding this matter from me.

That apart, the post so far has given some feeling regarding the wishes of cachers who have and are involved in this issue. Maple Leaf explained the origins of the Ammo Can very well in her post but this seems to be lost by W&M

I was unaware that the can had been to more than one event, the only one I was aware of was the launch event of Mega Wales so very appropriate being still a recognised MEGA related Event, the Second was on the Friday, the day before Mega Scotland which was also a MEGA related Event.

I am unsure what kind of underhand motive W&M have me down for, but if they actually read all the post including mine they would see that I have simply asked questions and not expressed my opinion either way I recognised that others in the Caching community would have concerns and opinions regarding this and simply facilitated the discussion.

W&M you inferred that I have some ulterior motive for this, my wife and I were probably the most active supporters of Mega Wales, Lilian raised 70% of the monies currently sitting in the Mega Committee account; I have clocked up thousands of miles promoting and fund raising for Mega Wales. It was only due to some serious health issues that we resigned.,

I do however believe that the Golden Ammo can should only be for Mega Events it was created to be unique and you seem perfectly happy to ignore everyone and spoil that.

Is it now your committee’s policy that nobody may ask questions and you are not answerable to the caching community?

 

Tony

 

While we did not respond in person to your emails this morning, another member of the committee did very adequately. There would be no point in giving duplicate answers: your questions were answered.

The aim of our posting here was to to show that whatever interpretation you put on the Can's objective, it had failed miserably to achieve it and there has been inconsistency over which events it should attend. The logging record makes this very clear.

This alone gave the present committee grounds to review the objective and the means of achieving it successfully. After checking with the originators, we thought we were acting in the best interests of the geocaching community and are frankly surprised at some of the reaction, although we are pleased to note that it has encouraged some retrospective logging and uploading of images.

In view of the comments made here, the Can will not now make an appearance in Devizes (sorry to anyone who was looking forward to seeing it there) and the matter will be reviewed at our next committee meeting.

It would be nice to see a wider selection of the geocaching community express their opinions on the subject on this thread to aid our deliberations.

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I am not taking any sides in the bickering..........this is my own personal view :blink:

 

It seems a shame to me that such a pretty TB will only be seen once a year at Mega Events and the rest of the time it will be sitting in someones shed gathering dust...

 

Are Travel Bugs not meant to travel? Are they not for the geocaching community at large to see/admire and log?

 

It reminds me of a huge dispute in here some years back when the white/red/green/yellow Jeeps were all the rage and folks were glueing/attaching them to caches so they could not be removed, and people were saying they were not TB hotels but TB prisons..Is this not what is happening to Golden Ammo Box TB too?

 

And when it does go to the Mega Events it is locked away for the day and is not seen by anyone until the hand over when 3 people discover it...........there were 1301 people at Mega Scotland and this TB was seen by 3 people!!!! It could not be put on a table to be admired incase the contents were nicked, and more will be added each year, so less will see it each year, not much of a life for a Travel Bug is it??

 

If it's sole purpose is just to go from one Mega committee to the next and to be seen once a year then it should not be a Travel Bug it should just be a Mega Event souvenir, with trackable coins inside for folks at the event to log.

 

I agree with Lucilla, let each Mega Committe decide how they would best like to use the Golden Ammo Can.

 

If it is drumming up support for the next Mega that can't be bad.........can it?

 

:huh:B):)

 

Off for those bullet proof knickers again :o

 

M :)

Edited by Us 4 and Jess
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Are Travel Bugs not meant to travel? Are they not for the geocaching community at large to see/admire and log?

 

 

Actually, I think travel bugs are to do exactly what the owner decides they're to do - within reason. I'd be quite put out if somebody decided my car TB was meant to travel - without me behind the wheel.... :angry:

The same could be said for most of the coins I own.

 

At the end of the day - as current custodians - the Wales Mega Committee are the only ones that can decide what to do with it. But I agree that taking previous (and future) owners thoughts into consideration is the best idea. Whatever they decide to do now will affect the significance of the ammo can from here on in - not just detract from any special objective the originators may have put on it.

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I just want to be clear that there was no underlying agenda and no criticism was intended or implied towards the Mega Wales Committee it was an issue with the Ammo Can. I started this post as it was simply something I felt strongly needed expressing and being only my second post in this forum had some reservations.

I am glad that the committee will now take time to discuss this as it should be. I hope they pay respect to the people who have posted here and realise that it is those people who set and created the Golden Ammo Can and have the intelligence to know their own minds and what they wanted for it, which is why they set the mission as they had.

 

Tony

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I just liked the idea of it being like a Talisman and respected the originators wishes so sorry if my comments upset anyone. :angry:

 

OK so Perth perhaps made the mistake of not putting it on show - perhaps with the coin collections? We did not intend to cause problems but the subject just never got brought up. :grin:

 

I guess being on a Mega committee is a learning curve, none of us on the past three committee's had ever done anything like this before so I hope future committees can learn by our mistakes.

 

At the end of the day it is just another TB icon and really not worth arguing over!

 

Perhaps by Mega 2020 we will have got it perfect? :grin::grin::D

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I just liked the idea of it being like a Talisman and respected the originators wishes so sorry if my comments upset anyone. :grin:

 

OK so Perth perhaps made the mistake of not putting it on show - perhaps with the coin collections? We did not intend to cause problems but the subject just never got brought up. :grin:

 

I guess being on a Mega committee is a learning curve, none of us on the past three committee's had ever done anything like this before so I hope future committees can learn by our mistakes.

 

At the end of the day it is just another TB icon and really not worth arguing over!

 

Perhaps by Mega 2020 we will have got it perfect? :grin::D:D

 

Just want to say we, Write and Mane had a fantastic time in Scotland, not a midge to be seen. :anicute:

 

Haggis and Burns were brilliant.

 

The Mega team did us proud, I (Liz) even got a laugh with my stunning headwear. :angry:

 

Megas are learning curves and we continue to learn from our mistakes but make no mistake we are all looking forward to seeing you Swansea in 2011.

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For what it's worth, I'd say that the Golden Ammo Can SHOULD be taken to as many events in as many locations as possible so as to advertise and raise the profile of each year's 'official' UK Mega but that the Can and it's contents should ONLY be discoverable at 'official' Mega-related events held during the week of Mega festivites each year...

 

Mike

Edited by Von-Horst
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I was going to avoid this thread when it decended in to bickering (why does that always seem to happen here? :angry:), but since the Mega Wales committee have asked for opinions here I'll add mine. I've already replied to the thread on the South Wales forum, but I'll try to expand on that with a bit more reasoning:

 

I personally think that the Golden Ammo Can should only visit UK Mega Events and related side events (i.e. those in the week around the mega, arranged to coincide with it) as this makes it a bit more "special". After all the goal of this TB is "To travel from one UK Mega Event to the next collecting a mega coin from each one.....", it does not "want" to go to any event that the committee happen to be attending.

 

I totally understand what the Mega Wales committee are saying about not many people discovering it, but here's an idea - why not take all of the coins out of it temporarily (IIRC they are not attached in any way, just in a folder) and then put the ammo box on display for the duration of the Mega Event (and any side events)? You would probably need to leave it somewhere where committee members are in close proximity just in case someone decides to do a runner with it, but even if they did at least the coins would not be lost.

 

I also suspect that the reason that more people have not discovered it is because they were not aware that it is trackable, so maybe make that fact clear on the Mega Event listing or with a sign in the event itself and I'm sure you would encourage more people to log it. It's also worth remembering that a large proportion of cachers simply don't bother discovering TBs.

 

As I said, these are just my own personal views on the matter. I don't wish to get involved in any sort of argument, at the end of the day it's just a Travel Bug (albeit a special one) and not worth falling out with people over. :grin:

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For what it's worth, I'd say that the Golden Ammo Can SHOULD be taken to as many events in as many locations as possible so as to advertise and raise the profile of each year's 'official' UK Mega but that the Can and it's contents should ONLY be discoverable at 'official' Mega-related events held during the week of Mega festivites each year...

 

Mike

That's an interesting compromise. :angry:

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We attended the WSM mega and the countdown to Swansea event and did not spot this at either, other wise i would have logged it.

I personally think that such a trackable would be more special if it was only logable at mega events.

Advertising that it will be at the events would make sense, but dont log it in and out of those, keep the records clean so that the locations are only at the mega itself and the run up events.

 

However this is now a bit of a waste because it has already been soiled, but it would have been nice to discover something that has been to all the megas and only seen by those in attendance.

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Should it not have been out on display at Perth to be discovered ?

 

Instead of just bringing it out for the handover to the next mega comittee

 

Having been to all three of the UK Megas so far, I am not totally sure I was even aware this was a TB or anything special :anibad:

 

Seems it is to those, "in the know" and perhaps it is right that it has a bit more PR!

 

I recently had the pleasure of attending a Mega in USA and the trackable items associated with the event were out on display, and one, a large wooden trackable (coin shaped but a TB not a coin clone) was passed from table to table for people to log, be photographed with etc.

Edited by Dorsetgal & GeoDog
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Never realised that this was a trackable at the Perth Mega. Definitely Mega Events only in my opinion but displayed in a prominent place for discovery even if the contents have to be temporarily removed for safety (unfortunate sign of the times :anibad: ) - are they loggable too?

 

Gezza

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Just a thought...

 

With the new souvenirs from Groundspeak.

Use the Golden Ammo Can to promote the Mega Events.

(Allow it to be 'Discovered' at the Mega Event promotions)

 

BUT.

You can only get a Souvenir when it's logged at a Mega Event.

 

(OK, needs Groundspeak to allow it, but they seem to want to promote these Souvenir thingies in cachers profiles...)

 

Otherwise, use it to promote the Mega's, but the coins etc within can only be discovered at the Mega itself.

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I would say Mega events only.

 

If the contents are discoverable, why not display them in a lockable glass case, also, print and display the tracking numbers next to them.

I think this is the way to go.

Contents in a display with tracking numbers on display and maybe images of the reverse of the coins.

I know its a pity to cover them but there are too many coin snatchers out there.

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Gatherings of strangers are not my thing, so a Mega holds no appeal for me.

 

I'm sure they're great if that's you type of thing.

 

Fair comment. I think some people enjoy geocaching because it is, for the most part, a rather solitary hobby. It's pretty rare to meet other geocachers out in the field unless it's a new cache and so lots are out hunting for it.

 

It's a good hobby, flexible enough to be played in whichever way you enjoy it.

 

Happy hunting!

 

MrsB

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