Geocache Placements

[+Cissy PSP]

I have just a general question about cache placements and going by what the map says. I am new to geocaching. I just started the first part of October. I have trouble finding places to hide a cache that not too close to another one. After several denial of placements, I finally learned how to read the map to avoid the saturation situation.

 

So, the other day I placed one where I was sure the nearest one was at the very least .1 of a mile. I wrote down the coordinates, went home and consulted the map. Sure enough, the closest was a Traditional Cache .1 of a mile away. I had just found that one, too. The nearest Puzzle cache was .2 of a mile away.

 

I submitted my find. I got a notice back saying I was too close to a Puzzle cache. I double and tripled check using my coordinates. Nope, no Puzzle cache less than .1 (528 fee). The Puzzle is .2 of a mile.

 

I am assuming the reviewer has an auto program of some sort that pops up to give him/her the information....but why do I show a different situatin than the reviewer. I am getting discouraged on hiding anything LOL. After finally learning what I was doing wrong and to still come out wrong is exasperating. If I can't trust what the map says, how do I go about hiding a cache? Here are the coordinates I have. Can someone look to see what I mean. Also, it shows a TC .2 away AND a Puzzle the same distance of .2. I don't understand.

 

N 37 degrees 14.253, W 121 degrees 52.191

 

Thank you!!

 

I guess I shouldn't use the word MAP, I meant the page that pops up after you put in the coordinates that shows the distance between the caches.

Edited November 17, 2010 by CissyPSP

[knowschad]

Mystery (puzzle) caches and multi-caches will always present problems such as what you experienced. The only foolproof solution would be to find all mysteries and mutlis in your area, and record the coords of the finals (and any physical stages of the multis). Its just something that we all have to deal with sometimes.

 

Yeah, it can be frustrating when it happens, so if you are planning on putting out a very ambitious cache that is dependant upon being at a particular location, it might be best to vett that location with your reviewer before you put much effort and preparation into the cache.

[+briansnat]

You're not going to see the end of a puzzle cache or stages and end of multis on the map other than the first one. The check for nearest caches also won't show those stages.

 

The reviewers do have a feature that allows them to check all of these stages.

 

If there is a multi or puzzle nearby, you might want to run your proposed spot by the reviewer first, before taking the trouble to place the cache. That or solve the puzzle or find the multi yourself.

 

Sounds to me as if you're looking in an area that is already pretty saturated with caches, and maybe that's your problem. Look at the cache map and see if you can find an area that isn't so saturated. You may have to drive some.

[+Cissy PSP]

Mystery (puzzle) caches and multi-caches will always present problems such as what you experienced. The only foolproof solution would be to find all mysteries and mutlis in your area, and record the coords of the finals (and any physical stages of the multis). Its just something that we all have to deal with sometimes.

 

Yeah, it can be frustrating when it happens, so if you are planning on putting out a very ambitious cache that is dependant upon being at a particular location, it might be best to vett that location with your reviewer before you put much effort and preparation into the cache.

 

Thank you for the response. To go out and find all surrouning caches so I can place one of my own isn't going to be very possible to do. Other geocachers in my area set out new ones quite frequently. I truly don't know how they do it LOL.

 

Thanks!

[+WeightMan]

The problem is that the puzzle cache is not at the listed coordinates. The reviewer has the actual placement available and that is what the reviewer is checking to see if you are too close to another cache. They also have all the actual physical cache locations for stages of any multi.

[+Cissy PSP]

You're not going to see the end of a puzzle cache or stages and end of multis on the map other than the first one. The check for nearest caches also won't show those stages.

 

The reviewers do have a feature that allows them to check all of these stages.

 

If there is a multi or puzzle nearby, you might want to run your proposed spot by the reviewer first, before taking the trouble to place the cache. That or solve the puzzle or find the multi yourself.

 

Sounds to me as if you're looking in an area that is already pretty saturated with caches, and maybe that's your problem. Look at the cache map and see if you can find an area that isn't so saturated. You may have to drive some.

 

Thank you, Brian. That is discouraging that I can't trust what the map says because the puzzle ones don't appear correctly. That makes it very very difficult to know. Wow, I had no idea. I hadn't found the particular information anywhere. I am too inexperienced to do any puzzle caches at this time. I'll keep plodding until I can find a successful area.

 

Thank you

[+John in Valley Forge]

 

Thank you, Brian. That is discouraging that I can't trust what the map says because the puzzle ones don't appear correctly. That makes it very very difficult to know. Wow, I had no idea. I hadn't found the particular information anywhere. I am too inexperienced to do any puzzle caches at this time. I'll keep plodding until I can find a successful area.

 

Thank you

 

I think the final location of the puzzle can be as far as a mile from the "posted" coordinates.

 

As far as inexperience? You have to get it sometime. Dive in. Give it a try.

 

Don't be afraid to send a message to the owner of the puzzle asking for help either.

[+buttaskotch]

Thank you, Brian. That is discouraging that I can't trust what the map says because the puzzle ones don't appear correctly. That makes it very very difficult to know. Wow, I had no idea. I hadn't found the particular information anywhere. I am too inexperienced to do any puzzle caches at this time. I'll keep plodding until I can find a successful area.

 

Thank you

The puzzles DO appear correctly, the FINAL coords will never appear on the map, since it must be solved to find the final coords.

Don't fret, find another area nearby to place a cache. It'll make it an extra special placement!

[+Cissy PSP]

Thank you, Brian. That is discouraging that I can't trust what the map says because the puzzle ones don't appear correctly. That makes it very very difficult to know. Wow, I had no idea. I hadn't found the particular information anywhere. I am too inexperienced to do any puzzle caches at this time. I'll keep plodding until I can find a successful area.

 

Thank you

The puzzles DO appear correctly, the FINAL coords will never appear on the map, since it must be solved to find the final coords.

Don't fret, find another area nearby to place a cache. It'll make it an extra special placement!

 

You guys are all awesome, really! So much help here and everyone is so patiently answering my queries. Being a newbie, it would be easy to dismiss my concerns, but none of you are.

 

I will jump in, Brian, I really will very soon regarding Puzzle caches. Well, gotta get out there, find a great place...especially for my jar that I am putting work into, submit the coordinates to reviewer FIRST. If it gets the OK, I'll place it, then submit the form.

 

Thankie! Have a GREAT week, everyone!!

[jholly]

Mystery (puzzle) caches and multi-caches will always present problems such as what you experienced. The only foolproof solution would be to find all mysteries and mutlis in your area, and record the coords of the finals (and any physical stages of the multis). Its just something that we all have to deal with sometimes.

 

Yeah, it can be frustrating when it happens, so if you are planning on putting out a very ambitious cache that is dependant upon being at a particular location, it might be best to vett that location with your reviewer before you put much effort and preparation into the cache.

 

Thank you for the response. To go out and find all surrouning caches so I can place one of my own isn't going to be very possible to do. Other geocachers in my area set out new ones quite frequently. I truly don't know how they do it LOL.

 

Thanks!

 

Read the knowledge book article "Checking for Cache Saturation". That is how they do it.

[+Sol seaker]

So, just to be sure this has been worded clearly,

 

You have to be .1 miles from the FINAL stage of the puzzle cache, which is not on the map.

The final of the puzzle must be within two miles of the icon on the map (posted coords on the puzzle cache web page), so that does leave a large area.

 

You are doing great!! Have fun!!

[+hzoi]

The final of the puzzle must be within two miles of the icon on the map (posted coords on the puzzle cache web page), so that does leave a large area.

 

Sol, that may be a misstatement. I'm not aware of any 2-mile rule for puzzle cache coordinates. You may be thinking of this language from the Knowledge Books (4.7 - Checking for Cache Saturation):

 

If you see mystery or puzzle cache with bogus coordinates within 2 miles of your chosen location, be aware that its final location might be near your proposed cache. This is because in many instances, a puzzle solution is within 2 miles (3.2 km) of its starting coordinates. That said, many - but not all - multi-caches start and finish in the same park or general area. However, there is no limit on the range of a multi-cache, so even if don't see a multi-cache nearby, there may be a stage of a multi in the area.

[+John in Valley Forge]

The final of the puzzle must be within two miles of the icon on the map (posted coords on the puzzle cache web page), so that does leave a large area.

 

Sol, that may be a misstatement. I'm not aware of any 2-mile rule for puzzle cache coordinates. You may be thinking of this language from the Knowledge Books (4.7 - Checking for Cache Saturation):

 

If you see mystery or puzzle cache with bogus coordinates within 2 miles of your chosen location, be aware that its final location might be near your proposed cache. This is because in many instances, a puzzle solution is within 2 miles (3.2 km) of its starting coordinates. That said, many - but not all - multi-caches start and finish in the same park or general area. However, there is no limit on the range of a multi-cache, so even if don't see a multi-cache nearby, there may be a stage of a multi in the area.

 

I thought it was a 1-mile limit, but without checking I would not argue. One I am thinking of off the top of my head is somewhere in the 1-1.5 mile range I think. The reason for the limit is to make it a reasonable trip and so that travel bugs dont get their mileage all screwed up.

[+42at42]

duplicate response

 

One of my attempted hides was rejected due to a puzzle cache. What I thought was virgin territory, there wasn't a cache on the map for almost a kilometer or over 1/2 mile actually was blocked by a puzzle.

 

The reveiwer was nice enough to tell me the name of the cache that was blocking my cache, the '?' was about 2km away. I had tried to solve this puzzle in the past with no success. Now I was determined.

 

When I solved it, my North coord was exactly the same. The other cache was 30m west of my placement.

 

If your reviewer is willing find out which '?' is blocking you and solve it.

[+42at42]

.

Edited November 17, 2010 by 42at42

[+John in Valley Forge]

 

I thought it was a 1-mile limit, but without checking I would not argue. One I am thinking of off the top of my head is somewhere in the 1-1.5 mile range I think. The reason for the limit is to make it a reasonable trip and so that travel bugs dont get their mileage all screwed up.

 

Here is the quote from the official Guidelines description of a Puzzle/Mystery

Mystery or Puzzle Caches

The "catch-all" of cache types, this form of cache often involves complicated puzzles that you will first need to solve in order to determine the coordinates. The information needed to solve the puzzle must be available to the general caching community and the puzzle should be solvable from the information provided on the cache page. For example, a puzzle that requires research on public websites in order to determine the coordinates may be acceptable, while a puzzle that requires sending an email to the cache owner with the solution in order to obtain the coordinates may not be. For many caches of this type, the coordinates listed are not of the actual cache location but a general reference point, such as a nearby parking location. Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles (2-3 km) away from the true cache location. This allows the cache to show up on the proper vicinity searches and to keep the mileage of trackables that find their way into the cache reasonably correct.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

The final of the puzzle must be within two miles of the icon on the map (posted coords on the puzzle cache web page), so that does leave a large area.

 

Sol, that may be a misstatement. I'm not aware of any 2-mile rule for puzzle cache coordinates. You may be thinking of this language from the Knowledge Books (4.7 - Checking for Cache Saturation):

 

If you see mystery or puzzle cache with bogus coordinates within 2 miles of your chosen location, be aware that its final location might be near your proposed cache. This is because in many instances, a puzzle solution is within 2 miles (3.2 km) of its starting coordinates. That said, many - but not all - multi-caches start and finish in the same park or general area. However, there is no limit on the range of a multi-cache, so even if don't see a multi-cache nearby, there may be a stage of a multi in the area.

 

It's also worth noting that the 2-mile guideline for a final location with respect to the published coordinates for a puzzle cache has not always been in place. There may be puzzle caches out there where the finale is significantly further away than 2 miles.

 

In addition to asking a reviewer to confirm that there are no proximity issues with puzzle or multi caches, you can always send email to the cache owners of any puzzle/multi caches in the area, and ask them the general direction of the final or physical multi stages. If there aren't too many in the area that might work out, and the cache owner might even try to convince you to try solving the puzzle by providing a small hint.

[+narcissa]

 

I think the final location of the puzzle can be as far as a mile from the "posted" coordinates.

 

 

The final can be farther, but the reviewer will likely ask about it.

[+niraD]

It's also worth noting that the 2-mile guideline for a final location with respect to the published coordinates for a puzzle cache has not always been in place. There may be puzzle caches out there where the finale is significantly further away than 2 miles.

I've found older puzzle caches like this, hidden before the 2-mile guideline was in place. I've also found puzzle caches where there was a good puzzle-related reason for the posted coordinates to be further than 2 miles from the final location. And I've also found puzzle multi-caches, where the posted coordinates were within 2 miles of the first stage, but the final stage was several miles away.

 

The process described in the knowledge book article mentioned earlier works well.

 

But ultimately, if an area is so saturated that you're having trouble finding a place to hide a cache, then it might be a good idea to look for another area that is less saturated. The area near my home is so saturated that any place that might support a cache already has one. If it doesn't appear to have a cache, then either the cache is a puzzle cache or a multi-cache final, or there has been a series of caches that have been archived as each cache has been muggled repeatedly.

[+hzoi]

Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles (2-3 km) away from the true cache location. This allows the cache to show up on the proper vicinity searches and to keep the mileage of trackables that find their way into the cache reasonably correct.

 

I stand corrected. Thanks. We'd already done that for our puzzle caches, so I just hadn't run into it.

[+wimseyguy]

You're not going to see the end of a puzzle cache or stages and end of multis on the map other than the first one. The check for nearest caches also won't show those stages.

 

The reviewers do have a feature that allows them to check all of these stages.

 

If there is a multi or puzzle nearby, you might want to run your proposed spot by the reviewer first, before taking the trouble to place the cache. That or solve the puzzle or find the multi yourself.

 

Sounds to me as if you're looking in an area that is already pretty saturated with caches, and maybe that's your problem. Look at the cache map and see if you can find an area that isn't so saturated. You may have to drive some.

 

Thank you, Brian. That is discouraging that I can't trust what the map says because the puzzle ones don't appear correctly. That makes it very very difficult to know. Wow, I had no idea. I hadn't found the particular information anywhere. I am too inexperienced to do any puzzle caches at this time. I'll keep plodding until I can find a successful area.

 

Thank you

Don't give up on puzzle caches so easily. Look at the cache page first. The only difference between a puzzle cache and a traditional is that you may need to do some work at your desk before you get the actual coords. It might be as easy as some simple google searching, or a basic sudoku puzzle. Or it might be some more complicated ciphers or codes. Or some really off the wall esoteric info requiring knowledge of quantum physics.

And some puzzles are physical ones that you will work on out in the field.

 

I'm not a big fan of puzzles, mostly because I just don't have the time to work on them and like to find a lot of caches when I have time to go outdoors. But don't let that ? scare you off so easily.