EARTHENWARE CONE

[+genegene]

I have a good idea that an Earthenware Cone is basically a clay pot and here is the Description of the BM:

 

MY5277 placed in 1850 42° 46.613 W 070° 48.265

 

DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1850 (COB) THE STATION IS MARKED BY AN EARTHENWARE CONE, EMBEDDED IN THE EARTH 3 FEET BELOW THE SURFACE.

 

No other info was provided about the mark other then what is above. The location is in a sand dune and I was wondering what is the best way to find a pot like this?

 

I am thinking that a thin rod like what is on marking flags (that mark out fresh grass or where a new underground electric fence line for a dog) or a Coat Hanger, to poke into the ground until I hit something will work.

 

I know that its a long shot doing it the way that I am thinking or its most likely under about 5 feet of sand now.

 

Has anyone had experience finding any pots in sand dunes and how did you do it? Any thoughts on how I should go about finding it?

 

Gene G.

[Bill93]

George's paper referred to in the recent "Disk Updates" thread has a picture of a cone.

 

A search for such a mark should be undertaken with the greatest of care and reverence to avoid disturbing it, as both it and its position would be much more fragile than the typical mark.

 

Jerry Penry has posted some good stories of searching for old marks, and Council Hill and Carter with earthenware jugs are especially relevant for techniques. He takes care to not disturb the mark he is digging for, or else uses professional techniques to be sure it is replaced precisely where it was found.

[+genegene]

Thanks Bill those are some great links and I learned a lot from them.

 

I'm looking forward to finding some of those unusual BMs now and performing the proper way to dig them up for viewing only.

 

In the Carter link, what is that long stake with the handle on it called? That looks like it is what I should use to find underground markers.

[+Rotareneg]

It's a tile probe, I'd like one too.

[CallawayMT]

It's a tile probe, I'd like one too.

 

Be careful for what you wish for. If you go to this story:MORC - WARD We were probing for the better part of an hour and pushing through 3-4 feet of earth will wear you out!

 

Rocky ground does not work well for the probes.

 

Have fun and be careful for what you are probing for and what you can possibly probe. Many bench marks fall near areas where you could possibly probe through power, phone and irrigation lines.

 

Kurt

[NGS Surveyor]

I have used a "tile probe" for hunting for underground concrete marks, but I would be very hesitant to use one to probe for a clay pot - you might easily break the pot. These pots/jars/bottles are quite rare, I have never seen one in the ground.

 

GeorgeL

NGS

[+genegene]

These pots/jars/bottles are quite rare, I have never seen one in the ground.

 

GeorgeL

NGS

 

When I go to look for the one while on vacation on the east coast of Mass. I am going to see if I can get Curt Crow of the NGS to join me in its hunt. It would be great to work with someone from the NGS and document its find (if it can be found). I haven't asked him yet so he doesn't know that I am going to ask him to join me.

 

There are going to be a few issues I can see in getting to locate this one so far,

1) Depth may have changed over the past 160 years.

2) Stolen or broken pot.

3) Permission

 

3 = The location of the BM is located on the Parker River National Wildlife Refuge. I have contacted them and was directed to the Refuge Manager and left a voice mail for him and what I would like to do. In order to look for it, someone from the NGS might have to be there on an official capacity to make it OK

 

Its going to be a shot in the dark but its worth a look for a few hours.

 

MY5277

 

1/1/1850 by CGS (MONUMENTED)

DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1850 (COB) THE STATION IS MARKED BY AN EARTHENWARE CONE, EMBEDDED IN THE EARTH 3 FEET BELOW THE SURFACE.

 

1/1/1934 by MAGS (SEE DESCRIPTION)

RECOVERY NOTE BY MASSACHUSETTS GEODETIC SURVEY 1934 STATION IS SITUATED NEAR THE MIDPOINT OF PLUM ISLAND. THE OLD DESCRIPTIONS MENTIONS ONLY AN UNDERGROUND MARK FOR THE STATION AND SINCE THE VICINITY IS PRACTICALLY UNINHABITED AT THIS TIME OF THE YEAR, NO ONE COULD BE FOUND TO FURNISH ANY INFORMATION AS TO ITS WHEREABOUTS.

[Papa-Bear-NYC]

These pots/jars/bottles are quite rare, I have never seen one in the ground.

 

GeorgeL

NGS

 

...

 

Its going to be a shot in the dark but its worth a look for a few hours.

 

MY5277

 

1/1/1850 by CGS (MONUMENTED)

DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1850 (COB) THE STATION IS MARKED BY AN EARTHENWARE CONE, EMBEDDED IN THE EARTH 3 FEET BELOW THE SURFACE.

 

1/1/1934 by MAGS (SEE DESCRIPTION)

RECOVERY NOTE BY MASSACHUSETTS GEODETIC SURVEY 1934 STATION IS SITUATED NEAR THE MIDPOINT OF PLUM ISLAND. THE OLD DESCRIPTIONS MENTIONS ONLY AN UNDERGROUND MARK FOR THE STATION AND SINCE THE VICINITY IS PRACTICALLY UNINHABITED AT THIS TIME OF THE YEAR, NO ONE COULD BE FOUND TO FURNISH ANY INFORMATION AS TO ITS WHEREABOUTS.

That will be a tough one. Plum Island is basically a sand dune and I suspect the surface shifts continually due to wind and sea. Map Link

 

Good luck.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Papa-Bear-NYC

[Bill93]

The tools of choice would be professional grade GPS and a shovel.

 

If you have to do it with recreational grade GPS, plant a stake nearby and let the unit average a waypoint on it for several minutes until you get an indicated accuracy of about 5 feet, repeating as many times as you can. You will find that even averaged waypoints differ as the day progresses so it is good to take them spread out through the day. Calculate an average of them. Then calculate an offset from your average to the coordinates given for the mark. The display format ddd.ddddd is the most precise readout. Averaging can hint at another decimal place but only by averaging at many times of day. If I did the computation right (using INVERSE) for each 0.00001 degree difference you move 3.64 ft north and south, or 2.69 ft east and west.

 

If you find it, don't disturb it. When you fill the hole, cover the clay with something, then put in a little sand, and then an iron rod or pipe over it so that a professional magnetic locator can find it again. The rod should be well below the surface, a couple feet long if there is room without resting it on the clay.

[square nail]

This is the type of search that I really enjoy. I wish I lived in the area.

 

I noticed there was/is a concrete "fire control tower" PID MY5279 about 337.46' to the sw. If you could locate that structure or its ruins, you could measure 337.46' @ 47.6 degrees. I know that is a long distance but it may not be difficult if the groung is relatively level. The azimuth would be tough but you should be able to get within 5 feet with a good compass and tripod. Both locations have adjusted coordinates so it would be best to start hanging around with a land surveyor, like I do. It is so cool to find things via gps and some digging tools.

 

Good luck,

Gary

[+Klemmer]

I'm certainly no expert, but I suspect that a ground penetration radar might work. The sand would be dry (good for the radar penetration), and I guess that the difference between clay and sand might be enough to sense. Borrowing one might not be easy. Maybe the NGS has a source / connections. I suppose these days most counties have one for various tasks. They always seem to have one available on CSI . Sounds like fun! Good luck.

[foxtrot_xray]

I'm certainly no expert, but I suspect that a ground penetration radar might work. The sand would be dry (good for the radar penetration), and I guess that the difference between clay and sand might be enough to sense. Borrowing one might not be easy. Maybe the NGS has a source / connections. I suppose these days most counties have one for various tasks. They always seem to have one available on CSI . Sounds like fun! Good luck.

Unfortunately, looking at the coords (Adjusted) on Google Earth, that location is RIGHT under a small grove of dense-looking trees. If the cone survived roots growing around it, it may be difficult with any tool with that many trees/foliage right around it.

[+billwallace]

Good Luck. Looks like cool place, be sure to post pix.

[+genegene]

That's a good idea to get one of those. It will make it real easy to find it in the sand. Maybe I can find someone that would like to come out and help us look for it.

 

We will try the conventional way of measuring first but if we have no luck that way we will cheat and use the radar.

 

Maybe we can make a GC event as well and place a new marker over the original container if we can find it.