To All Cache Owners...

[+MinnesotaBen]

I am still a rookie approaching my 5th month of geocaches (approaching 120 finds) and trying not to slow down as early darkness and winter hits. Nonetheless, I am truly enjoying this new hobby and appreciate that all of you place caches for me to find, and I hope to place a cache soon myself... after imposing a "100 find" requirement on myself, even if I don't have to.

 

That being said, to thank you each of you for your cache placement and make it even better for the next to find, I have no problem cleaning up a cache by adding fresh paper, occasionally tossing in some swag, reporting on maintenance needs I can't fix at the time, cleaning trash from inside and around the cache, and placing it as well or better than I found it.

 

However, the one thing I can't do on my own is mark a trackable as missing. I can add a note to both the trackable page and cache page, which I do each and every time I don't see a trackable. However, it would sure be great if every cache owner could visit their cache page(s) and check to see if there is any "trackable trash" that they could help clean up for everyone.

 

To be clear, this is not a rant about lazy cache owners. I expect that not every trackable is going to be there and know not every cache owner will read this. However, I do know that not all cache owners know this feature is available to them and in some cases there are trackables that have been missing for 12+ months from inactive trackable owners and it sure would be nice to do some cache cleanup online too.

 

Thanks again for being a cache owner and I look forward to reading any replies from people who didn't know this feature existed and/or hearing how many trackables were marked missing because of this message!

 

Edited to add: I did add a similar topic in the Tracking Bug and Geocoin forums, however trackable owners may have left the game. Hopefully cache owners are still active!

Edited November 12, 2010 by MinnesotaBen

[+ActMoritz]

Same here the Boys love to do the tractables its always a big let down. When the LOG shows them and they are not there. I have just go to the point of ignoring them and be surprised if there is one there. For example the cache at the welcome to lasVegas sign is a micro with no tractable yet it shows like 20.

Edited November 12, 2010 by ActMoritz

[hoosier guy]

Seems reasonable to me. Yeah my kids get disappointed too.

[+dfx]

just posting to add that in the case of missing trackables, it's a good idea to mention that fact in your found log AND post a note to the trackable, as both owner of the cache and owner of the trackable can mark it as missing.

[+addisonbr]

For example the cache at the welcome to lasVegas sign is a micro with no tractable yet it shows like 20.

I took a look, and interestingly enough the micro at the sign only has two trackables listed - but the virtual at the sign has 20.

[+ActMoritz]

For example the cache at the welcome to lasVegas sign is a micro with no tractable yet it shows like 20.

I took a look, and interestingly enough the micro at the sign only has two trackables listed - but the virtual at the sign has 20.

 

Ya that's how it was lol I just thought it was funny.

[Pup Patrol]

Well, I just did my part, as a cache finder. I posted a note to two coin pages, advising the owners that their coins are not in the cache where they were last dropped.

 

Am I correct in thinking that if either the cache owner or the trackable owner mark them as "missing", they will be removed from the cache's trackable inventory list?

[+dfx]

Am I correct in thinking that if either the cache owner or the trackable owner mark them as "missing", they will be removed from the cache's trackable inventory list?

bingo.

[Pup Patrol]

Am I correct in thinking that if either the cache owner or the trackable owner mark them as "missing", they will be removed from the cache's trackable inventory list?

bingo.

 

Thanks.

 

Edited my notes to ask to have the trackables marked as "missing".

[sp1tf1re]

Yeah I just ran out for a cache last night. It was one I have wanted to find since starting and I was testing the new GPSr as well. It had three listed, only one was there and was dropped last weekend. The other two haven't been seen since 08 and 09 respectively. I placed a note on the trackable and the cache about the missing items. I did notice that not all of the cache logs noted the missing trackables though.

 

The cache has had a lot of finds over the years and is very popular but the number of notes regarding the missing trackable are very low. hopefully they will get disabled soon.

[+uxorious]

From reading the forums it seem almost everyone like the trackables.

 

I never got into them and really don't have any interest, at this time, of doing anything with them.

 

I guess as a cache owner, if I was made aware of one missing from one of my caches, I should try to figure out how to list it as missing. However, if the trackable owner can also list it as missing, that would be the way I would rather go.

 

I really don't care to get into them, but maybe I'm wrong for feeling this way?

[Pup Patrol]

I guess as a cache owner, if I was made aware of one missing from one of my caches, I should try to figure out how to list it as missing. However, if the trackable owner can also list it as missing, that would be the way I would rather go.

It's very easy for the cache owner to do. Just click on the link to the trackable in question and log it as "missing". Pretty much the same as logging maintenance notes and "found it" logs.

 

But sometimes waiting for the trackable owner to do it is detrimental. They might not be active any more, etc.

 

As the cache owner who is still active in the game, it wouldn't be difficult to update the inventory, if someone makes you aware of a trackable that is not in your cache. You don't need to go out and physically check on the trackable to do it.

 

I really don't care to get into them, but maybe I'm wrong for feeling this way?

Not at all. Not every aspect of this game needs to float the boats of all the players.

 

I've grown blaise over trackables, too. They are rarely ever in the caches where they are supposed to be. Travel bugs can be large, making finding a suitable cache to move them to is difficult in these days of nanos and micros.

 

But if I'm finding caches where the trackables are missing, I'm going to start making it a habit of noting the situation. Posting notes that say the cache is empty of trackables might save the next cacher who is still interested in finding and moving them some disappointment.

[+palmetto]

add a note to ...the trackable page

 

Yes, please - a note on the Trackable page is much easier to see and follow up, then pawing through logs on a cache page. Plus, logs to the cache will say things like "trackable not found" ... which trackable?

 

uxorious, cleaning up the missing trackables from your cache page is a courtesy you can extend to those cachers who care about finding them.

 

I agree with FizzyMagic on this, it is not an obligation, just something you can do, if you'd care to.

[+MinnesotaBen]

However, if the trackable owner can also list it as missing, that would be the way I would rather go.

I would prefer the trackable owner too, and did add a similar topic in the TB and Geocoin threads too.

 

Unfortunately the trackable owner can leave the game and leave their "trash" around. So it's nice reminder for cache owners, who likely are active, to add a step in their cache maintenance.

 

I have contacted more than one cache owner myself and was surprised they didn't even know they could do that. So my message was just to help educate. Granted, not everyone enjoys trackables, but I promise the little effort will make a lot of people enjoy your cache even more.

[Andronicus]

If I get a found log on one of my caches that reports missing trackables, I will take some acction. But I don't go checking the caches just to see if they are actualy in there.

[+Ike 13]

There are plenty of absent CO's. And the ones who need to see this never read the forums. I always try to post a note, but it is usually ignored. I take care of my caches and that's enough for me to worry about.

[+hukilaulau]

When I first started caching I was also traveling a lot and I loved picking up trackables and moving them to different states. I soon discovered the sad reality that trackables often go missing. When I first started only the trackable owner or an admin could remove a trackable from a cache, so it was a slight improvement when cache owners were granted the power to do that, too. It's still a big problem, though, and I have stopped anticipating finding them, and just enjoy the surprise if there is one in a cache.

I am still greatful to the people who put them out there, and try to express my appreciation in the notes.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

guess as a cache owner, if I was made aware of one missing from one of my caches, I should try to figure out how to list it as missing. However, if the trackable owner can also list it as missing, that would be the way I would rather go.

 

As a cache owner, I'd rather mark the trackable missing myself rather than wait for the bug owner to do it. Once a TB/coin is verified as gone from my cache, either by myself or another cacher, then I don't want it showing in my cache's inventory and disappoint a cacher who comes looking for it, so I mark it missing.

 

I've posted tons of notes on tons of bugs that were missing from caches (both on the cache page and the trackables page), some were gone for years, and I've rarely seen a TB owner mark their own bug as missing.

[+michigansnorkelers]

Looks like most of you, as well as I, are in the minority.

 

I believe that there should be SOME method to better determine if a TB is still in a cache.

 

I've started several posts regarding trackables, but was disappointed to find little support for my concern or suggestions.

 

What I currently do is run a PQ for TBs. I make the assumption that a TB will be picked up by the next finder or two. If there have been 2 finders since the TB was dropped, it probably isn't there any more. This is generally true. Conversely, if the last cache log date = the TB drop date, then there is a very good chance the TB is still in the cache.

 

So, I load the PQ into GSAK which shows me the date of the last cache log and a list of all TBs that are logged as being in the cache. I click on the TB number (which opens the Geocaching.com TB page) and quickly see the date it was dropped. I then USER TICK the cache if the dates were the same, or if there were some other reason I thought the TB might still be there (TB hotel, etc). Easy for a small list, tedious for a long one.

 

PQs only indicate the name of the TBs that were logged as dropped in a cache at some time in the past. They contain no date information.

 

If the PQ indicated the DATE of the latest TB drop, then some automatic method (GSAK?) could filter the caches to flag those where the TB drop date = last cache log date. Even more helpful would be if the PQ could filter for this. Sure, it wouldn't be foolproof, but it would be a LOT more helpful than what we have today.

 

Well, that's my opinion anyway.

[+NicknPapa]

I guess as a cache owner, if I was made aware of one missing from one of my caches, I should try to figure out how to list it as missing. However, if the trackable owner can also list it as missing, that would be the way I would rather go.

It's very easy for the cache owner to do. Just click on the link to the trackable in question and log it as "missing". Pretty much the same as logging maintenance notes and "found it" logs.

 

But sometimes waiting for the trackable owner to do it is detrimental. They might not be active any more, etc.

 

As the cache owner who is still active in the game, it wouldn't be difficult to update the inventory, if someone makes you aware of a trackable that is not in your cache. You don't need to go out and physically check on the trackable to do it.

 

I really don't care to get into them, but maybe I'm wrong for feeling this way?

Not at all. Not every aspect of this game needs to float the boats of all the players.

 

I've grown blaise over trackables, too. They are rarely ever in the caches where they are supposed to be. Travel bugs can be large, making finding a suitable cache to move them to is difficult in these days of nanos and micros.

 

But if I'm finding caches where the trackables are missing, I'm going to start making it a habit of noting the situation. Posting notes that say the cache is empty of trackables might save the next cacher who is still interested in finding and moving them some disappointment.

 

I would not mark a traveler as missing from my cache unless I personally verified that it was gone. And even then it would involve double checking everything in the cache. I recently had a TB show up in the inventory of the cache we adopted but when I went to do some maintenance I didn't see it. I started back to the car with the intent of logging it as missing but decided to go back and be double sure. It was between the pages of the log so I'm glad I went back instead of just logging it.

[+BoMS]

I would not mark a traveler as missing from my cache unless I personally verified that it was gone.

I would only mark a trackable as missing from our cache if

1) we personally verified that it was no longer in the cache and

2) no recent finder has written in the log book that they have retrieved the trackable (gotta give people a chance to log online) and

3) none of the cache finders between the time of the trackable drop and the present has the trackable in their possession (I would email everyone and ask)

 

The same goes for our own trackables but I would rely on information from the CO of the last known location for 1) & 2).

 

\Mette

[+addisonbr]

I would not mark a traveler as missing from my cache unless I personally verified that it was gone.

I would only mark a trackable as missing from our cache if

1) we personally verified that it was no longer in the cache and

2) no recent finder has written in the log book that they have retrieved the trackable (gotta give people a chance to log online) and

3) none of the cache finders between the time of the trackable drop and the present has the trackable in their possession (I would email everyone and ask)

I think it depends on the cache.

 

For caches that are not visited very often, the above might make sense.

 

For caches that are visited a lot more, CO verification is pretty much unnecessary. I have a cache for which trackables that haven't been logged out after a couple of weeks are virtually 100% to no longer be there. A few times a year, if I'm bored while my better half is watching TV, I'll idly go through the inventory and just mark anything that hasn't been logged in 1-2 months as missing.

[+JohnnyVegas]

The owner of the traveler has to mark a travelar as missing. It is not the place of cache owner to keep track of another cachers travelers. The other part of the problem is people who place travel bug without activating them. In theses cases the travelers just cannot be tracked.

I have had several of my travel bugs go missing over the years so I no longer purchase TB tags. I few years back there was a cacher in San Francisco that decided to keep all the travel bug they found as a collection, SHe had a few of mine and when I asked her to place them in caches she told me to go to hell.

As far as I am concerned TB's ara a waste of money.

I had one TB that I requested be only taken to events. but no that did not happen because most cacher do not bother to read what the goal is of a travel bug.

 

Coins are another issue, they just get trade these days for other coins.

[+addisonbr]

It is not the place of cache owner to keep track of another cachers travelers.

I do it as a courtesy for those who visit my caches.

[RKip]

I do believe that the number of trackables listed in caches far exceeds the number of valid travelers for my own circle of search. When I find that a trackable is missing, I always make note in the cache page log entry and then another similar entry for the trackable (you do not need the tracking number to write a note).

[+Ambrosia]

I check my cache pages several times a year and mark trackables as missing. If it's been a few months since the trackable was placed, and people have reported that there wasn't a trackable in the cache, I feel that it's safe.

 

There's no need to stress about it too much. If the trackable really is there, or someone's just forgotten to log it, marking it missing isn't condemning it. It's a simple thing for someone to get it going again.

[+MinnesotaBen]

I would not mark a traveler as missing from my cache unless I personally verified that it was gone.

I think generally that's a good rule and great if anyone is doing that. However I was initially referring to some TBs that have been missing for 12+ months (especially in active caches). As mentioned, if it's found later it can be put right back into active status as if nothing happened.

 

Here's just one example ... and I think we'd all agree that this TB is missing, without verifying it ourselves.

 

I agree with everyone that it'd be great if the TB owner marked it missing, but I think in this case, I'd applaud any CO that marked it missing!

 

Side Note: As an admin, Eartha will be happy to mark any TBs missing if someone has contacted the TB owner and CO and received no response. Just pointing that out as another solution, but also I am pretty sure Eartha doesn't visit each cache!

Edited November 15, 2010 by MinnesotaBen

[+Crow-T-Robot]

The owner of the traveler has to mark a travelar as missing. It is not the place of cache owner to keep track of another cachers travelers.

 

But that isn't what you're doing when, as a cache owner, you mark a trackable missing. As a cache owner, you're keeping your cache inventory correct. Just like flash in the pan cache owners, there are trackable owners that join, buy a TB, activate it, drop it into a cache and then vanish from the game. No amount of emails/logs are going to get an absentee owner to mark the TB missing.

 

Really, there isn't anything to keep track of...if you get logs stating that the TB isn't in the cache, mark it missing and be done with it. Those who visit your cache with hopes of finding the TB that shows in it WILL tell you if its not there.

[+kpanko]

when, as a cache owner, you mark a trackable missing. . . . you're keeping your cache inventory correct.

This is exactly right.

 

I wish the system would just let me mark the trackable as missing, even though I do not own the cache or the trackable. If I have gone to the cache, and I know there's nothing in there but a log and a Canadian penny, then I should be allowed to remove it from the inventory. I know better than the cache owner and the trackable owner, because they were not there, and I was!

 

Unfortunately there is no secret tracking code that proves I did NOT see it.

 

But, so what? If some joker marks something missing and it was not missing, then the next finder can go ahead and log it as usual. The system could ask them if they grabbed it from <Last Known Location> or from <Somewhere else> just like it already does!

 

I already leave notes on trackables to let the owners know I did not see it in the last known cache. Sometimes they get marked as missing after I do this, but usually not.

Edited November 16, 2010 by kpanko

[+MinnesotaBen]

I wish the system would just let me mark the trackable as missing, even though I do not own the cache or the trackable.

You can let your voice be heard as I was recently made aware of the Groundspeak Website's Top Recommended Improvements and you can vote for Allowing All Cachers to Mark Trackables Missing

 

You simply need to sign-in and you can use your 10 votes, up to 3 each on any item. Enjoy!

[+kpanko]

You simply need to sign-in and you can use your 10 votes, up to 3 each on any item. Enjoy!

Voted! Democracy in action!

[+Gorak]

I'll probably ruffle some feathers here because I completely disagree that a cache owner has any responsibility whatsoever for trackables that pass through or go missing from their caches. Notwithstanding that it may take a cacher several days or longer to get around to logging their finds (and trackables), I'm certainly not going to go out to check on my caches just because someone complains that a TB or coin isn't where they thought it would be based on the cache page inventory.

 

IMHO, it is the responsibility of the trackable owner to disable it if they feel it really has gone missing. When I hide a cache I agree to be responsible for maintaining the cache, not to police other people's TB's/coins/whatever. If the only reason you are going to find a specific cache is because you want whatever trackable it contains, then you need to be constantly prepared to be disappointed when you get there and it's missing. That's just part of the game.

[+kpanko]

I feel this is like the "CITO" concept. Who cares whose responsibility it is, just get those cache inventories cleaned up!

 

it may take a cacher several days or longer to get around to logging their finds (and trackables)

Lazy! I do it right from the spot on my phone! I assumed everybody would log at least later the same day, but I guess it can take a few weeks for folks who are traveling without a computer. I have no idea why anyone would be willing to go weeks without a computer... are these Amish geocachers or what?

 

I'm certainly not going to go out to check on my caches just because someone complains

Fair enough! But you do check on them once in a while, I suppose? So mark things missing then.

 

IMHO, it is the responsibility of the trackable owner to disable it

It's not marking it disabled, it is missing. Small difference there. If someone wrote online that they did not find my trackable, or if I was able to visit the cache and it was gone, I would mark it missing. But others are not like me.

 

I guess the only thing I can do is e-mail Eartha about each and every missing trackable. Poor Eartha!

Edited November 18, 2010 by kpanko

[+Chokecherry]

Lazy for not logging immediately?????

 

Um some of us have a life beyond geocaching. It is in the the be all and end all in my world and I will log when I have time to log.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Chokecherry

[+BoMS]

it may take a cacher several days or longer to get around to logging their finds (and trackables)

Lazy! I do it right from the spot on my phone! I assumed everybody would log at least later the same day, but I guess it can take a few weeks for folks who are traveling without a computer. I have no idea why anyone would be willing to go weeks without a computer... are these Amish geocachers or what?

I guess I'm lazy then...

I don't have internet access on my phone and often on a holiday to another country we don't have internet connection for 2 weeks because it's just too expensive.

If that makes me lazy - so be it!

[+Gorak]

it may take a cacher several days or longer to get around to logging their finds (and trackables)

Lazy! I do it right from the spot on my phone! I assumed everybody would log at least later the same day, but I guess it can take a few weeks for folks who are traveling without a computer. I have no idea why anyone would be willing to go weeks without a computer... are these Amish geocachers or what?

It's not "lazy" at all. Not everyone is a technogeek and wired up the yingyang. Believe it or not, there are still people out there who print hard copy cache notes, don't own a PDA or smartphone and use GPSr's that aren't specifically designed for geocaching. Just because they don't embrace technology like you doesn't make them lazy. Likewise, not everyone is so enamored with computers that they can't fathom being without one for more than a few hours or days. And what's wrong with being Amish? Do you a problem with the Amish?

 

Then there are those who cache and NEVER log online. That is the way some people choose to play. There are probably more people like that than you would like to believe.

[+Cherokee Bill]

Yea! Missing trackables, I quit buying them and placing them altogether, as all of mine disappeared!

 

Guess after a short-while, they grow legs, and run off

[+kpanko]

Lazy for not logging immediately?????

Oh, I do not need you to log immediately or even the same day. Most of the "missing" trackables have been gone for more than one month. Some of them for more than one year. They are probably gone for good, but nobody marks them as missing. It would be nice if somebody would.

 

Here is my story: I bought a shiny new coin, and placed it in a cache near me. About four days later, I checked on it. It was gone! Nobody had logged it online. I wondered what had happened to it. After two weeks, I wondered if I would ever find out, and assumed it might be lost forever. So I marked it as missing. I was sad because it was my first coin and it had disappeared so fast. But then I got an e-mail saying it was placed in a cache 300 miles away! Yay. The finder had just been too busy to log it until they got back home. Better to log it late than never! Now I have the cache where my coin is on my watchlist, so hopefully I will hear more about it from the next finder.

 

Marking it as missing is no big deal. It does not disable the trackable forever. If someone needs to log it later, they still can.

 

Just because they don't embrace technology like you doesn't make them lazy.

No, but it does mean they are ruining geocaching! Ruining it forever!!! I'm going to quit, and go do letterboxing instead!

[+power69]

if someone notes a missing traveler in my caches, i'll give it a few weeks then mark it missing.