+PLMerry Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 (edited) This afternoon I had about 15 minutes to kill before a meeting with my wife and our insurance adviser. I decided to grab a cache in a cemetery that is right next to a historic (100+ years) church building. After about 15 minutes I needed to be moving on to the appointment. I decided to CITO an empty water bottle in a bush at the corner of the church and cemetery. To my dismay the trash had the log in it and was the cache. The hider took a 12oz water bottle, tour the label off, placed a log in it, and threw it into/under the bush. Now this is a bush that looses its leaves each year so the cache is visible this time of year as trash. There was no attempt at camouflaging the container at all. My question? Is this really a cache? I personally did not sign the log and have not recorded the find on line. Edited November 10, 2010 by PLMerry Quote Link to comment
+Ecylram Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 This afternoon I had about 15 minutes to kill before a meeting with my wife and our insurance adviser. I decided to grab a cache in a cemetery that is right next to a historic (100+ years) church building. After about 15 minutes I needed to be moving on to the appointment. I decided to CITO an empty water bottle in a bush at the corner of the church and cemetery. To my dismay the trash had the log in it and was the cache. The hider took a 12oz water bottle, tour the label off, placed a log in it, and threw it into/under the bush. Now this is a bush that looses its leaves each year so the cache is visible this time of year as trash. There was no attempt at camouflaging the container at all. My question? Is this really a cache? I personally did not sign the log and have not recorded the find on line. It's both. Hypocritically speaking, I've actually enjoyed some pretty creative caches that were disguised as trash. (String me up now.) Though these have been placed in already trash-strewn areas and, as a result, there was no appreciable change to the area. I do have a problem with disguising a cache as trash in a cemetery or park. Is that logical? No. Quote Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Yes, it is a cache. It has a log, it has been listed at geocaching.com. Is it a well thought out cache? No, not really. A wise (and somewhat old school) person once asked me-"is this a cache you would choose if you were showing someone who was making a documentary about geocaching? If not, why hide it?" Quote Link to comment
+StarBrand Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Logsheet in it or not - sounds more like CITO than a cache to me. I'd leave it be though - not sure If I would bother logging it though. Quote Link to comment
+zsdeng15014 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 While trying to find Part Way There,we found at least 10 soda containers, and a small elecricity box. Fortunatly, the cache desription said it was a rubbermaid container. Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Interesting. I often pick up trash while I'm searching for a cache. I wonder how many of my DNFs were caches like that, which I threw away after I gave up searching... Quote Link to comment
+narcissa Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 It's a terrible cache, but it is a cache. Out of respect for the next cacher, you should replace it, but it's certainly okay to whisper and point at the cache owner at events. Quote Link to comment
+Sol seaker Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Yes, I would say it is both. I found one of these. It took us quite a while. It was a water bottle next to a fence. It happened to have a necklace with colorful beads in it, or I might not have found it at all. At the time I didn't mind it. It was not in a beautiful area, just a spot next to a fence. The area was knee deep in weeds. It was an ideal spot if one was intent on hiding one of those. It fit right in. A place where a little trash looks right at home. I'm not going to run out and hide one myself, I would complain if it were in the woods, then I think it's more trash than cache. I feel about the same with it being in a cemetary. Not an appropriate place to leave an empty water bottle. The one I found was in a perfect spot and it made for a very tough hide, which made me appreciate it. Most places, I would not appreciate it, and if they become the next big rage I won't be happy about it. Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 This afternoon I had about 15 minutes to kill before a meeting with my wife and our insurance adviser. I decided to grab a cache in a cemetery that is right next to a historic (100+ years) church building. After about 15 minutes I needed to be moving on to the appointment. I decided to CITO an empty water bottle in a bush at the corner of the church and cemetery. To my dismay the trash had the log in it and was the cache. The hider took a 12oz water bottle, tour the label off, placed a log in it, and threw it into/under the bush. Now this is a bush that looses its leaves each year so the cache is visible this time of year as trash. There was no attempt at camouflaging the container at all. My question? Is this really a cache? I personally did not sign the log and have not recorded the find on line. One possibility not yet mentioned is that the container you found is a throwdown. Someone else may have been unable to find the original cache (perhaps it was missing or may just be hard to find, so they found an empty soda bottle, stuck a piece of paper in it with their signature, threw it in a bush, and called it a find. A few weeks ago I found a cache that had a CITO incident. My son is in a gymnastics class and I had dropped him off, then thought I'd check out a 4* diff. cache a short walk away that had been placed about 10 days earlier, but had not yet been found. When I arrived at GZ I discovered the area was along a creek that had a levee running next to it so much of the shoreline consisted of large rocks. I searched for awhile and found a pen that I figured may have been dropped by a previous seeker or a fisherman and stuck it in my pocket. I gave up the search after awhile then headed back. On the way back to the gymnastics building I saw what appeared to be bear scat in the middle of the trail. I took a photo of it that I posted here awhile back and used the pen I had picked up to show some scale. A few hours later I remember that I hadn't yet logged the DNF and it came to me. I pulled the pen out my pocket, removed the cap, and sure enough; I had the cache with me. Since I was FTF on the cache I couldn't post any details about it, but told the CO about it right away. I went back the next morning and replaced the container then logged my find later in the day. I was actually at the gymnastics studio again last night and took another walk down the trail about 100' before I saw another small pile of fresh bear scat. Quote Link to comment
+wiseye Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 I would likely cito it as trash. It shows total disregard for those buried, their families and for fellow caches. It puts us all in a bad light. I would post a note saying it was citoed and let the buffalo chips fall where they may. Quote Link to comment
+John in Valley Forge Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 If this is the one you logged today, then I believe you found a throw down or replacement cache. From reading that cache description, the CO has a very personal connection to the cemetery, with relatives interred there. With the reverence of that description, I do not think they would use a water bottle as a container. Plus logs from a few weeks ago speak of trackables in the cache. I'd post a Needs Maintenance log and let the CO know whats up. I think they would appreciate knowing. Quote Link to comment
+J the Goat Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 I would likely cito it as trash. It shows total disregard for those buried, their families and for fellow caches. It puts us all in a bad light. I would post a note saying it was citoed and let the buffalo chips fall where they may. This. Quote Link to comment
+J the Goat Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 If this is the one you logged today, then I believe you found a throw down or replacement cache. From reading that cache description, the CO has a very personal connection to the cemetery, with relatives interred there. With the reverence of that description, I do not think they would use a water bottle as a container. Plus logs from a few weeks ago speak of trackables in the cache. I'd post a Needs Maintenance log and let the CO know whats up. I think they would appreciate knowing. Unless he's changed his tune (assuming him, darn conditionings) he stated he wasn't going to log it. Maybe more than one in the cemetary? Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 Well, there are some pretty trashy containers pretending to be geocaches. There used to be one nearby that was a soda can with a hole cut in it, hanging in a tree. Think it lasted three days. But I do have fond memories of a cache in a park, with fill and rocks near the highway. The cache is an old beer bottle with a cork in it, hidden under/behind some of the rocks. For some reason, I found that one interesting. (Definitely better than the take-out food container under a 20# rock on a lawn. The 'Smashed Cache".) Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 None of my cache containers would be considered attractive but then again they are intended to be hidden out of sight. I'm friendly with some trash hide people. Pointing it out doesn't seem to do much about it. Quote Link to comment
+larryc43230 Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 (edited) If this is the one you logged today, then I believe you found a throw down or replacement cache. From reading that cache description, the CO has a very personal connection to the cemetery, with relatives interred there. With the reverence of that description, I do not think they would use a water bottle as a container. Plus logs from a few weeks ago speak of trackables in the cache. I could be mistaken (it's been a while since I found either cache), but I don't think that's the one PLMerry is referring to. If PLMerry posted about the one I'm thinking of, it's a mediocre cache (at best), in a terrific location, a local cemetery with some wonderful history. I remember thinking when I found it that the location deserved a classier cache; even a micro would have been preferable to the throw-down water bottle. --Larry Edited November 11, 2010 by larryc43230 Quote Link to comment
+PLMerry Posted November 11, 2010 Author Share Posted November 11, 2010 If this is the one you logged today, then I believe you found a throw down or replacement cache. From reading that cache description, the CO has a very personal connection to the cemetery, with relatives interred there. With the reverence of that description, I do not think they would use a water bottle as a container. Plus logs from a few weeks ago speak of trackables in the cache. I could be mistaken (it's been a while since I found either cache), but I don't think that's the one PLMerry is referring to. If PLMerry posted about the one I'm thinking of, it's a mediocre cache (at best), in a terrific location, a local cemetery with some wonderful history. I remember thinking when I found it that the location deserved a classier cache; even a micro would have been preferable to the throw-down water bottle. --Larry Larry you are correct. I found three other caches on my way home. One of them did happen to be another cemetery cache. It appears that the bottle has been there for a while, since the log was filled up and a second one was placed in the bottle. I think I will send the owner a note and offer to replace the container. Don't know what kind of response I will get. (Please note that I did not call the bottle a cache) Quote Link to comment
+J the Goat Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 If this is the one you logged today, then I believe you found a throw down or replacement cache. From reading that cache description, the CO has a very personal connection to the cemetery, with relatives interred there. With the reverence of that description, I do not think they would use a water bottle as a container. Plus logs from a few weeks ago speak of trackables in the cache. I could be mistaken (it's been a while since I found either cache), but I don't think that's the one PLMerry is referring to. If PLMerry posted about the one I'm thinking of, it's a mediocre cache (at best), in a terrific location, a local cemetery with some wonderful history. I remember thinking when I found it that the location deserved a classier cache; even a micro would have been preferable to the throw-down water bottle. --Larry Larry you are correct. I found three other caches on my way home. One of them did happen to be another cemetery cache. It appears that the bottle has been there for a while, since the log was filled up and a second one was placed in the bottle. I think I will send the owner a note and offer to replace the container. Don't know what kind of response I will get. (Please note that I did not call the bottle a cache) NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If anything, do nothing. Don't waste your time trying to maintain a cache that isn't yours because the CO is too lazy to put out a decent hide. Not your cache, not your job to maintain/replace. Quote Link to comment
+larryc43230 Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 (edited) If this is the one you logged today, then I believe you found a throw down or replacement cache. From reading that cache description, the CO has a very personal connection to the cemetery, with relatives interred there. With the reverence of that description, I do not think they would use a water bottle as a container. Plus logs from a few weeks ago speak of trackables in the cache. I could be mistaken (it's been a while since I found either cache), but I don't think that's the one PLMerry is referring to. If PLMerry posted about the one I'm thinking of, it's a mediocre cache (at best), in a terrific location, a local cemetery with some wonderful history. I remember thinking when I found it that the location deserved a classier cache; even a micro would have been preferable to the throw-down water bottle. --Larry Larry you are correct. I found three other caches on my way home. One of them did happen to be another cemetery cache. It appears that the bottle has been there for a while, since the log was filled up and a second one was placed in the bottle. I think I will send the owner a note and offer to replace the container. Don't know what kind of response I will get. (Please note that I did not call the bottle a cache) NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If anything, do nothing. Don't waste your time trying to maintain a cache that isn't yours because the CO is too lazy to put out a decent hide. Not your cache, not your job to maintain/replace. I certainly don't see any problem with him offering! I would never suggest that a cacher maintain a cache to that extent without consulting the owner, but I think offering to help is cool. --Larry Edited November 11, 2010 by larryc43230 Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 No cache owner support without owner response. I'm not really interested in maintaining your cache without your involvement. Quote Link to comment
+J the Goat Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 If this is the one you logged today, then I believe you found a throw down or replacement cache. From reading that cache description, the CO has a very personal connection to the cemetery, with relatives interred there. With the reverence of that description, I do not think they would use a water bottle as a container. Plus logs from a few weeks ago speak of trackables in the cache. I could be mistaken (it's been a while since I found either cache), but I don't think that's the one PLMerry is referring to. If PLMerry posted about the one I'm thinking of, it's a mediocre cache (at best), in a terrific location, a local cemetery with some wonderful history. I remember thinking when I found it that the location deserved a classier cache; even a micro would have been preferable to the throw-down water bottle. --Larry Larry you are correct. I found three other caches on my way home. One of them did happen to be another cemetery cache. It appears that the bottle has been there for a while, since the log was filled up and a second one was placed in the bottle. I think I will send the owner a note and offer to replace the container. Don't know what kind of response I will get. (Please note that I did not call the bottle a cache) NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If anything, do nothing. Don't waste your time trying to maintain a cache that isn't yours because the CO is too lazy to put out a decent hide. Not your cache, not your job to maintain/replace. I certainly don't see any problem with him offering! I would never suggest that a cacher maintain a cache to that extent without consulting the owner, but I think offering to help is cool. --Larry Offering one time maintainence for a cache that's been hit by the elements is cool. Replacing a full log is cool. Putting out an entire new cache because somebody decided to throw down a water bottle in a cemetary is not cool, it's supporting a lazy CO. Quote Link to comment
+DLSeeAmerica Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 After reading this whole thread, I think I know what I'll do if faced with a CITO cache. I'll replace the container with an appropriate one from the car, then post a maintenance log, reporting I found the cache contents stuck in a piece of trash, so somebody apparently stole the container, so I replaced it. That way the cache owner learns it wasn't an appropriate cache, without condemning him for it. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 One possibility not yet mentioned is that the container you found is a throwdown. You just took the words out of my mouth! Of course, if it has been there as long as PLMerry says (log full, replacement log added) then it still sounds like a Needs Maintenance issue, at best. Quote Link to comment
Skippermark Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 There was a "trash cash" around here that was hidden in a very difficult way. It had lots of DNFs, and many of those DNFs mentioned cleaning up the area and tossing out the trash...probably tossing out the cache and not even knowing it. The cache was disabled (missing) more often that available, probably because it was getting thrown out. Quote Link to comment
+Diesel_Cacher Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 (edited) When it comes to geotrash, for me it all depends on the location. If the location is somewhere that should be respected (such as the cemetery in this case), geotrash isn't appropriate and the cache should be removed or replaced. If the location is a parking lot and the CO didn't want to place a generic lamp post cache, I'm perfectly fine with geotrash. Edited November 12, 2010 by Diesel_Cacher Quote Link to comment
+geodarts Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 (edited) I can't imagine a cemetery would give permission for a water bottle to be left on their grounds. And some cemeteries are very sensitive about these things - the way that geocaching was portrayed as invading cemeteries in South Carolina certainly did the game no good. If the location is a parking lot and the CO didn't want to place a generic lamp post cache, I'm perfectly fine with geotrash. I do not think "geotrash" camo is ever appropriate. Litter is litter even if it has a log in it. Something that looks like litter and acts like litter is litter - and it would meet the definition of litter used in some jurisdictions. Why would any land owner or manager want it on their property? And a parking lot is someone's property. Even if there is other trash around, why would we want to add "fake trash" to something that should not be there in the first place? I recall when one local property owner got upset when cachers were looking for a container disguised as trash in a trashy area. We need to CITO rather than adding to the general perception that it is acceptable to drop objects in a given location. But especially considering the location, I would have CITOd the water bottle without giving it a second look. Edited November 13, 2010 by mulvaney Quote Link to comment
+TheAlabamaRambler Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 A cache made to look like trash? Really? Is that considered creative? Attractive? Funny? Folks, trash is trash. If I find a water bottle as described with or without a log I'm likely to CITO it. Quote Link to comment
TuffGong Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 If the location is somewhere that should be respected Shouldn't every place be respected? I am brand new to this and I have been planning out how I will design and hide my caches. It seems kinda silly to drop a piece of paper in a water bottle and shove it in a bush no matter where it is. I became interested in this hobby by stumbling over a few videos on Utube. The caches were so cleverly hidden I couldn't resist getting more involved. I am certain the video I saw was of someone putting a bottle in a bush it wouldn't have sparked my interest. I guess I'll stir the pot a bit..... Quote Link to comment
+Student Camper Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 [ NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If anything, do nothing. Don't waste your time trying to maintain a cache that isn't yours because the CO is too lazy to put out a decent hide. Not your cache, not your job to maintain/replace. I'm going have to go with this one, If a CO cannot or will not perform periodic maintenance, the cache should be archived. That said, there's nothing wrong with a helping hand now and then, but there are many caches out there that have been kept going by "ghost owners", the actual CO has not visited for years. Caches need not, nor should be maintained by anyone other than the CO of record or their designee. Quote Link to comment
+dfx Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 y'all make me think of . Quote Link to comment
+Student Camper Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 (edited) RE, original topic, I believe the guidelines say the cache should be labeled or identified in a way to indicate it to be a cache. An unlabled container, regardles of what is inside, should be CITO'd. There may be exceptions to this but nothing comes to mind right now. Edited November 13, 2010 by student camper Quote Link to comment
+J the Goat Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 RE, original topic, I believe the guidelines say the cache should be labeled or identified in a way to indicate it to be a cache. An unlabled container, regardles of what is inside, should be CITO'd. There may be exceptions to this but nothing comes to mind right now. Could you like to those guidelines please? Also, I may not label an ammo can, you gonna CITO my ammo can? Quote Link to comment
+Student Camper Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 RE, original topic, I believe the guidelines say the cache should be labeled or identified in a way to indicate it to be a cache. An unlabled container, regardles of what is inside, should be CITO'd. There may be exceptions to this but nothing comes to mind right now. Could you like to those guidelines please? Also, I may not label an ammo can, you gonna CITO my ammo can? "To reduce confusion and alarm when a cache is discovered accidentally, clearly label your container on the outside with appropriate information to say it is a geocache. Cover over any military markings with paint or a geocache sticker." Seems pretty clear to me. Quote Link to comment
+DanOCan Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 An unlabled container, regardles of what is inside, should be CITO'd. "To reduce confusion and alarm when a cache is discovered accidentally, clearly label your container on the outside with appropriate information to say it is a geocache. Cover over any military markings with paint or a geocache sticker." Seems pretty clear to me. Wow, be careful you don't break a leg jumping to that conclusion. No where does it say any cache that is not labeled should be removed. Quote Link to comment
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