Logging an Archived Cache

[+Racettes]

So I check my email and I see I got some finds on one of my two hides

So I logon to the GC site and check out the logs and I see this one Cacher has only 18 finds

So on a whim, I check out his profile, he's been around for a little over a year w/only 18 finds, 6 of those finds on Nov 7th

So I check on his finds and I see he logged an Archived Cache (Archived in Aug 09)

And I know that where he found this cache - there is a newer cache a couple hundred feet away

The Archived Cache is not listed/published obviously, so there are no guildline violations

So my buddy (who has the hide out by this archived cache) decide to make the 10 min drive during lunch break and find this archived cache

We were thinking, maybe he stumbled upon my buddies cache and was unaware of this being a new cache

Or did he actually find a phsyical container of an archived cache

Well - we found this cache, and its not my buddies

The CO archived it due to damp long, and the CO lives about an hour away from the hide so the CO just decided to remove it from the listing, but not the phsyical container

 

So after all this gibberjabber - can or should you log an Archived Cache

I didnt think the site would let you, but apparently you can

 

Thoughts forum peoples

Thanks

Racettes

[+StarBrand]

I wouldn't (unless I was backlogging an old find) but the website clearly does allow it. No worries - especially if there was still a container there to find.

[Clan Riffster]

You found a cache. Why wouldn't you log it?

[+Klatch]

You found a cache. Why wouldn't you log it?

Exactly.

[+narcissa]

If the cache is still there to be found, I don't see why anyone would object to it being logged.

[+Brooklyn51]

We had downloaded the coords for a newly published cache into our GPSr but didn't go out for it until the following day. In the meantime, the CO went to check on it and mistakenly thought his cache had vanished so he replaced it. Well, that replacement actually did vanish a couple of hours after he re-deployed it, for real this time. Rather than replace it again, he simply archived the cache, giving up on what he thought was just too muggly a spot. Later that same day, not knowing any of this, we went out to look for his cache and after a good search, we found the original. To be sure, it was well camoe'd, so well in fact that the CO apparently DNF'd his own cache. When we went to log it, we were quite surprised to find it had been archived. But we had made the find and signed the log so we claimed the smiley for it. We wrote to the CO and let him know his cache was in fact still in place. As it turned out several other people followed us, also logging a find on this archived cache, having also downloaded the coords earlier. He actually accrued more finds on his cache after it was archived than when it was active.

[jholly]

There was a time the HQ cache was archived. If you wanted the HQ find you logged an archived cache. I see anything unethical about logging an archived cache if you found the physical container. Unless the cache page is locked, logs and notes can still be posted on an archived cache.

[+Racettes]

We did find the actual container of the Archived cache and as to not create confusion, being my buddies cache is a couple hundred feet away we took the container

Its been sitting there a year - fairly well hidden I guess - and no one has removed it

We took the Archived Cache container so now one would be posting Needs Maintance logs on the published cache

So being physical cache container is no longer there, as it is sitting on my desk now, does one still log it as a find??

 

Racettes

[+sbell111]

I see no problem with logging an archived cache. Of course, the cache owner is free to delete the log if he wishes.

 

I am much more concerned about people being way too interested in the logs of others on caches that they don't own.

[+J the Goat]

We did find the actual container of the Archived cache and as to not create confusion, being my buddies cache is a couple hundred feet away we took the container

Its been sitting there a year - fairly well hidden I guess - and no one has removed it

We took the Archived Cache container so now one would be posting Needs Maintance logs on the published cache

So being physical cache container is no longer there, as it is sitting on my desk now, does one still log it as a find??

 

Racettes

 

When you say "one" do you mean you? If you found the container and you removed the container, you can still log the find as you found the container.

[+sbell111]

We did find the actual container of the Archived cache and as to not create confusion, being my buddies cache is a couple hundred feet away we took the container

Its been sitting there a year - fairly well hidden I guess - and no one has removed it

We took the Archived Cache container so now one would be posting Needs Maintance logs on the published cache

So being physical cache container is no longer there, as it is sitting on my desk now, does one still log it as a find??

 

Racettes

I would not have removed the cache without first attempting to contact it's owner. For all you know, the cache remains active on another site. Further, assuming that permission for the placement was obtained and it is the cache owner's intention to retain property rights to same, the box clearly remains the property of the cache owner regardless of whether the cache listing is active on any listing site.

[+Racettes]

We did find the actual container of the Archived cache and as to not create confusion, being my buddies cache is a couple hundred feet away we took the container

Its been sitting there a year - fairly well hidden I guess - and no one has removed it

We took the Archived Cache container so now one would be posting Needs Maintance logs on the published cache

So being physical cache container is no longer there, as it is sitting on my desk now, does one still log it as a find??

 

Racettes

I would not have removed the cache without first attempting to contact it's owner. For all you know, the cache remains active on another site. Further, assuming that permission for the placement was obtained and it is the cache owner's intention to retain property rights to same, the box clearly remains the property of the cache owner regardless of whether the cache listing is active on any listing site.

 

Apologies for offending you on my taking the container - but it was archived in Aug 09 and if the CO cant make the trip to remove the physical container, then maybe they should not have placed it where its an hour drive for them

After reading on here, Ive decided not to log it, its only one cache no biggy. Im not a numbers person anyways

And what is the "concern" about reading another users logs - am I not allowed to read logs on other caches that arent mine?? Guess I wont be able to tell if someone has posted updated coords on a listing. Maybe someone posted a log saying "gloves will help with this one" cause the cache is placed in a thorn bush and they didnt put the correct attribute on the listing

Guess I cant be watching the event coming up either that Im pondering on going to, cant read the log of a cache that isnt mine...

I thought this was a public listing, Im pretty sure I can read whatever it is on the site

 

End of thread

[+Panther&Pine]

Apologies for offending you on my taking the container - but it was archived in Aug 09 and if the CO cant make the trip to remove the physical container, then maybe they should not have placed it where its an hour drive for them

After reading on here, Ive decided not to log it, its only one cache no biggy. Im not a numbers person anyways

And what is the "concern" about reading another users logs - am I not allowed to read logs on other caches that arent mine?? Guess I wont be able to tell if someone has posted updated coords on a listing. Maybe someone posted a log saying "gloves will help with this one" cause the cache is placed in a thorn bush and they didnt put the correct attribute on the listing

Guess I cant be watching the event coming up either that Im pondering on going to, cant read the log of a cache that isnt mine...

I thought this was a public listing, Im pretty sure I can read whatever it is on the site

 

End of thread

Don't worry about it. Send a note to the CO, and post a note to the page.

You didn't mean any harm by it.

 

And welcome to the forums, 'where drama lives on'.

 

Edit* If you really want the thread to be closed ask a moderater. They can close it for you.

Edited November 10, 2010 by MooseJawSpruce

[+JohnnyVegas]

So I check my email and I see I got some finds on one of my two hides

So I logon to the GC site and check out the logs and I see this one Cacher has only 18 finds

So on a whim, I check out his profile, he's been around for a little over a year w/only 18 finds, 6 of those finds on Nov 7th

So I check on his finds and I see he logged an Archived Cache (Archived in Aug 09)

And I know that where he found this cache - there is a newer cache a couple hundred feet away

The Archived Cache is not listed/published obviously, so there are no guildline violations

So my buddy (who has the hide out by this archived cache) decide to make the 10 min drive during lunch break and find this archived cache

We were thinking, maybe he stumbled upon my buddies cache and was unaware of this being a new cache

Or did he actually find a phsyical container of an archived cache

Well - we found this cache, and its not my buddies

The CO archived it due to damp long, and the CO lives about an hour away from the hide so the CO just decided to remove it from the listing, but not the phsyical container

 

So after all this gibberjabber - can or should you log an Archived Cache

I didnt think the site would let you, but apparently you can

 

Thoughts forum peoples

Thanks

Racettes

The number a caches some one finds over the period of a year only means that they do not have a lot of time to find caches. THere was a time that I would find several caches almost every day. THen I went back to college full time and I fould I only had time to go to events.

Now the cache in question is not one of yours so it is not up to you to decide if the log should stand.

 

For any of my old caches that are archived I just do not allow any new logs. In most cases I add a line to the cache page that says any futures will be deleted. I do this because a while back it was a practice for some cachers to lookup archived caches and then add back dated logs to bring their numbers up. Now no one logs finds on my archived caches, in the past it was just getting out of hand.

[+narcissa]

 

Apologies for offending you on my taking the container - but it was archived in Aug 09 and if the CO cant make the trip to remove the physical container, then maybe they should not have placed it where its an hour drive for them

 

Or, as was previously stated, maybe the cache owner listed the cache on a different site. You shouldn't remove a cache - archived or not - without being sure that it's okay with the owner.

[+dfx]

I see no problem with logging an archived cache. Of course, the cache owner is free to delete the log if he wishes.

really? i thought log signed = smiley online.

[+Sol seaker]

THERE IS A BIG PROBLEM WITH LOGGING ARCHIVED CACHES!!

 

 

 

Groundspeak headquarters gets about a call a week from someone unhappy about the placement of a cache.

 

Some are placed on private property, some too close to private property, etc. (one I know of makes a dog bark incessantly. That one will be gone as soon as the property owner finds out why the people are back there).

 

So many archived caches are community complaints.

 

If you start searching for caches that are gone for good reason you are going to give a lot more people a reason to hate geocaching.

 

We are struggling with keeping a good name for ourselves already. Let's not make it worse!!!

Edited November 10, 2010 by Sol seaker

[+Ike 13]

THERE IS A BIG PROBLEM WITH LOGGING ARCHIVED CACHES!!

 

If you start searching for caches that are gone for good reason you are going to give a lot more people a reason to hate geocaching.

 

We are struggling with keeping a good name for ourselves already. Let's not make it worse!!!

 

But that is only really true if it was archived for permission issues. In this case I think the OP did things correctly. The CO archived the cache hide, and they basically stumbled upon it. They removed a piece of litter (in this case I doubt it was listed on a different site since it was archived due to maintenance that issue does not disappear on another site). I would hold on to the cache and contact the CO. I would also log a find because you did find a cache.

[+Castle Mischief]

You found it. Log it.

[+Castle Mischief]

THERE IS A BIG PROBLEM WITH LOGGING ARCHIVED CACHES!!

 

 

 

Groundspeak headquarters gets about a call a week from someone unhappy about the placement of a cache.

 

Some are placed on private property, some too close to private property, etc. (one I know of makes a dog bark incessantly. That one will be gone as soon as the property owner finds out why the people are back there).

 

So many archived caches are community complaints.

 

If you start searching for caches that are gone for good reason you are going to give a lot more people a reason to hate geocaching.

 

We are struggling with keeping a good name for ourselves already. Let's not make it worse!!!

 

I'm not following your logic. Should I avoid hunting archived caches or should I avoid hunting active caches. Sounds like either one could cause BIG PROBLEMS for geocaching by your logic.

 

And I wasn't aware that you had insider knowledge of the types and legitamacy of the calls that Groundspeak gets and how many of those are in regards to active caches versus archived caches (or caches hid under other listing services...)

Edited November 10, 2010 by Castle Mischief

[+Coldgears]

I purposly go out of my way to find archived caches. Like one hidden under a playground playset, next to a police station... Imagine the looks I got.

[+Racettes]

Well, thanks to those who answered my original question of wether to log or not log an Archived Cache

Your thoughts/opinions were and are appreciated - its what I thougth the forums were for

 

Again - I am not going to log it as a find

 

I did not spend time on the site looking for archived caches, just came across the log of another user who found my cache and I checked out his profile (Im pretty sure I am allowed to do that)

 

Those of you who are throwing shots at me for removing the container - your opinion and I cant stop you from posting your opinion

 

It is amazing though how this thread went from asking a question about logging an Archived Cache to flaming me on removing the container then to flaming Sol Seaker for making a comment about Archived Caches and Groundspeak HQ

 

Hopefully this is done and over with after this post and we can all just move on

I just wanted to pass "thanks" to those who answered the original question

 

Thanks again to those who answered the original question

Racettes

[+narcissa]

Those of you who are throwing shots at me for removing the container - your opinion and I cant stop you from posting your opinion

Pointing out that your behaviour may inconvenience others is not a "shot" at you.

[+T_M_H]

 

I have been wanting a reason to use that smiley. This was the perfect place. LOL

[+baloo&bd]

Those of you who are throwing shots at me for removing the container - your opinion and I cant stop you from posting your opinion

 

It is amazing though how this thread went from asking a question about logging an Archived Cache to flaming me on removing the container then to flaming Sol Seaker for making a comment about Archived Caches and Groundspeak HQ

 

Amazing is your glossing over the issue that has been clearly pointed out.

 

1. The cache my be listed on another site. Other sites like Terra, Waymarking, etc get significantly less traffic than here so it may go wuite a while without being found.

 

2. It was really of no concern of yours AFTER you established that they did not log the wrong cache instead of your friends.

 

3. It was not yours to take without permission. If you were to go by other threads regarding another similar incident, albeit allegedly done over an extended period, some authorities would consider what you did may be considered illegal.

 

Had I been the first to respond to your post, #2 would have been in play with a simple "who cares?".

[+narcissa]

I wonder if those other geocaching sites have long forum threads about jerks from Geocaching.com stealing all their caches.

[AZcachemeister]

If you find the container and sign the log therein, you log it online...archived or not.

Simple.

It's not your problem if the owner archived it because they didn't want to do maintenance, or because they thought it was missing/stolen/burned in a forest fire...but didn't bother to check it.

[+Harry Dolphin]

If you find the container and sign the log therein, you log it online...archived or not.

Simple.

It's not your problem if the owner archived it because they didn't want to do maintenance, or because they thought it was missing/stolen/burned in a forest fire...but didn't bother to check it.

 

Agree with AZ. Find cache, sign log, log online. CO tries to delete that log, I would appeal it to TPTB. I think I've only found one archived cache. Off on a trip to another state. GPS files were a week old. It was archived the day before we found it. But, we did find it and signed the log. We didn't realize that it was archived until we logged it that night. Reminds me, I have to pick up the cache I archived last weekend. But, if anyone finds it before I remove it, they're welcomed to the log.

[+jicknarson]

I wonder if those other geocaching sites have long forum threads about jerks from Geocaching.com stealing all their caches.

[+JohnnyVegas]

I wonder if those other geocaching sites have long forum threads about jerks from Geocaching.com stealing all their caches.

Until reading this thread I forgot that there are other cache listing services. I also forgot that some of my caches are list on one of them

[+ZeroHecksGiven]

I found a cache that is older than any active cache currently and I tried to log it, but Groundspeak locked it at some point, kind of bummed on that since I made a 200+ mile out of my way drive to see if it was there, which it was. Oh well, still pretty cool

[Clan Riffster]

Those of you who are throwing shots at me for removing the container...

Personally, I think you did the right thing, cleaning up some litter. If an owner hides a cache, then lists it on this site, then archives that listing and lists it on another site, it would take them all of 8 seconds to post a not on the original cache page worded to the effect of, "Please don't remove this cache. It is now listed at Terracaching .com". While doing so is certainly not required, it would sure ease the confusion for those who come along later. Frankly, I don't think they listed it elsewhere. I think they just got lazy and left it there. At that point, we, (the caching community), should weigh the benefit against the cost. In my opinion, having an abandoned cache rotting away out in the woods is a bad thing. Muggles and/or land managers could come across it and form the false impression that we are not stewards of nature. The importance of cleaning up geolitter outweighs the possibility that the cache might be listed elsewhere, especially if the cache owner took no steps to prevent his cache from being mistaken for an abandoned one.

[+baloo&bd]

Those of you who are throwing shots at me for removing the container...

Personally, I think you did the right thing, cleaning up some litter. If an owner hides a cache, then lists it on this site, then archives that listing and lists it on another site, it would take them all of 8 seconds to post a not on the original cache page worded to the effect of, "Please don't remove this cache. It is now listed at Terracaching .com". While doing so is certainly not required, it would sure ease the confusion for those who come along later. Frankly, I don't think they listed it elsewhere. I think they just got lazy and left it there. At that point, we, (the caching community), should weigh the benefit against the cost. In my opinion, having an abandoned cache rotting away out in the woods is a bad thing. Muggles and/or land managers could come across it and form the false impression that we are not stewards of nature. The importance of cleaning up geolitter outweighs the possibility that the cache might be listed elsewhere, especially if the cache owner took no steps to prevent his cache from being mistaken for an abandoned one.

 

We don't know if it is listed elsewhere or not because the OP could not be bothered to do the right thing and taken a few seconds to send an email to the owner prior to removing it. Then there would be no problem. While doing so is certainly not required, it would sure ease the confusion for those who read this thread later.

Edited November 11, 2010 by baloo&bd

[+Castle Mischief]

1. The cache my be listed on another site. Other sites like Terra, Waymarking, etc get significantly less traffic than here so it may go quite a while without being found.

 

Waymarking.com has a category for physical containers now??

[+baloo&bd]

1. The cache my be listed on another site. Other sites like Terra, Waymarking, etc get significantly less traffic than here so it may go quite a while without being found.

 

Waymarking.com has a category for physical containers now??

 

I was referring more to lack of traffic on unrelated sites as an explanation for long since found. Sorry for confusion.

[+Racettes]

Ok - to quiet down everyone I sent an email to the CO last night explaining everything

 

Here is his reply

 

[GEO] Lloyd family contacting --- from Geocaching.com‏

6:27 AM

 

Send email

From: Geocaching (noreply@geocaching.com)

Sent: Thu 11/11/10 6:27 AM

 

Sure you can remove prop eater.Thank you

 

 

Can everyone just quiet down now!!! Sheeesh

[+tango501]

Just prior to Geowoodstock8 I was publishing a Wherigo and supposedly had the final area locked.

Unfortunately that didnt work out, so I had to use one of my other caches in area. Archived that to

publish Wherigo. And yes I used exact same location.

 

Many logged both caches as PQs were up to months old for travelers coming to the mega event.

I never deleted any logs for archived cache but emailed a few that I would if I saw defamatory logs.

 

Personally I dont care if an archived cache is logged, if you find a container-log it

hopefully it will be the correct container, in this rare instance it wasnt the correct cache container

but I understood the unique issues concerning it so let it go with no worries

 

have fun, be safe and happy hunting

[Andronicus]

I would log it! I would also ask the CO if he/she would like me to despose of the geotrash.

[+Castle Mischief]

1. The cache my be listed on another site. Other sites like Terra, Waymarking, etc get significantly less traffic than here so it may go quite a while without being found.

 

Waymarking.com has a category for physical containers now??

 

I was referring more to lack of traffic on unrelated sites as an explanation for long since found. Sorry for confusion.

 

Apology accepted.

[+two bison]

 

For any of my old caches that are archived I just do not allow any new logs. In most cases I add a line to the cache page that says any futures will be deleted. I do this because a while back it was a practice for some cachers to lookup archived caches and then add back dated logs to bring their numbers up. Now no one logs finds on my archived caches, in the past it was just getting out of hand.

 

All these problems would be mute if when an owner archives a cache, they remove the container. I'm sure that you do this but it's clear that many others do not.

 

My procedure on archived caches is ... if I find-and-sign or in the case of virtual find-and-supply-the-needed-information, then I log the find.

[+GeoGeeBee]

 

All these problems would be mute if when an owner archives a cache, they remove the container.

 

 

Moot.

 

I still have a cache in the trunk of my car. The owner hasn't logged in for a couple of years, so I doubt he's going to get in touch any time soon to ask for it back. But I did leave a note on the cache page, and send him an email, just in case. I'll eventually toss it in the trash, but in the meantime, it's not taking up much room so it might as well stay where it is.

[+dfx]

I still have a cache in the trunk of my car.

i thought traveling caches were not permitted.

[+narcissa]

Ok - to quiet down everyone I sent an email to the CO last night explaining everything

 

Here is his reply

 

[GEO] Lloyd family contacting --- from Geocaching.com‏

6:27 AM

 

Send email

From: Geocaching (noreply@geocaching.com)

Sent: Thu 11/11/10 6:27 AM

 

Sure you can remove prop eater.Thank you

 

 

Can everyone just quiet down now!!! Sheeesh

 

Emailing the owner AFTER the fact doesn't change the fact that you removed a geocache without permission in the first place.

 

If the owner had told you that, in fact, the geocache was listed on another site or being maintained as a private listing, were you prepared to go and replace it?

 

Removing archived caches is all fine and good when you know they shouldn't be there anymore, but when you aren't sure, it really just amounts to willful muggling.

Edited November 12, 2010 by narcissa

[Andronicus]

 

All these problems would be mute if when an owner archives a cache, they remove the container.

 

 

Moot.

 

I still have a cache in the trunk of my car. The owner hasn't logged in for a couple of years, so I doubt he's going to get in touch any time soon to ask for it back. But I did leave a note on the cache page, and send him an email, just in case. I'll eventually toss it in the trash, but in the meantime, it's not taking up much room so it might as well stay where it is.

I cleaned up some geo-litter, and left a note on the cache page. After a week I absorbed the remaining swag that hadn't been destroyed by water into one of my new ones I was puting out. Still have the log book incase the CO wants it back.

[+sbell111]

We did find the actual container of the Archived cache and as to not create confusion, being my buddies cache is a couple hundred feet away we took the container

Its been sitting there a year - fairly well hidden I guess - and no one has removed it

We took the Archived Cache container so now one would be posting Needs Maintance logs on the published cache

So being physical cache container is no longer there, as it is sitting on my desk now, does one still log it as a find??

 

Racettes

I would not have removed the cache without first attempting to contact it's owner. For all you know, the cache remains active on another site. Further, assuming that permission for the placement was obtained and it is the cache owner's intention to retain property rights to same, the box clearly remains the property of the cache owner regardless of whether the cache listing is active on any listing site.

 

Apologies for offending you on my taking the container - but it was archived in Aug 09 and if the CO cant make the trip to remove the physical container, then maybe they should not have placed it where its an hour drive for them

After reading on here, Ive decided not to log it, its only one cache no biggy. Im not a numbers person anyways

And what is the "concern" about reading another users logs - am I not allowed to read logs on other caches that arent mine?? Guess I wont be able to tell if someone has posted updated coords on a listing. Maybe someone posted a log saying "gloves will help with this one" cause the cache is placed in a thorn bush and they didnt put the correct attribute on the listing

Guess I cant be watching the event coming up either that Im pondering on going to, cant read the log of a cache that isnt mine...

I thought this was a public listing, Im pretty sure I can read whatever it is on the site

 

End of thread

Did you even read my post?

[+Racettes]

Thought this would die away and slowly move down the list - but I guess not

 

Everyone is right - I should not have removed said container w/o permission, I do know better and should have checked with him first

 

Yes - I was prepared to replace container if CO had aske me to replace

CO did give permission to remove container

 

Sincere apologies to everyone - major mistake on my part

Can we please let this be now

 

Again - truly, sincere apologize for offending people

Racettes

[+JohnnyVegas]

 

For any of my old caches that are archived I just do not allow any new logs. In most cases I add a line to the cache page that says any futures will be deleted. I do this because a while back it was a practice for some cachers to lookup archived caches and then add back dated logs to bring their numbers up. Now no one logs finds on my archived caches, in the past it was just getting out of hand.

 

All these problems would be mute if when an owner archives a cache, they remove the container. I'm sure that you do this but it's clear that many others do not.

 

My procedure on archived caches is ... if I find-and-sign or in the case of virtual find-and-supply-the-needed-information, then I log the find.

more easily said than done. I archived caches of mine when I could not find them. Later I would get an e-mail from some one that has found my old cache container more than 30 feet from were I placed it.

[+Racettes]

Thought this would die away and slowly move down the list - but I guess not

 

Everyone is right - I should not have removed said container w/o permission, I do know better and should have checked with him first

 

Yes - I was prepared to replace container if CO had aske me to replace

CO did give permission to remove container

 

Sincere apologies to everyone - major mistake on my part

Can we please let this be now

 

Again - truly, sincere apologize for offending people

Racettes

[+Flintstone5611]

You can log archived caches?!?

[+sbell111]

You can log archived caches?!?

Unless they are intentionally locked by TPTB, it is possible to log archived caches.