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$25 Fee to Place a Geocache on PA State Park Lands


BikeBill

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Are PA state parks intended to earn a profit? Public parks usually don't have that sort of mandate - the fees are there to cover operating costs, not for generating surplus revenue.

 

Ummmm, yes, indirectly. Not just from entrance fees. Parks attract visitors, hikers, campers, tourists. Those people spend money in and around the park. The economic impact of a good park system can be huge.

 

Pennsylvania's parks return an estimated $7.62 to the people of the Commonwealth for every $1 spent by the Commonwealth on the parks. That includes money spent at the gas stations and grocery stores next to the entrances, hotels, bars, etc. Plus some parks generate revenue through campsite fees, marina fees, ski lift tickets etc. They also create a lot of jobs.

 

NY parks are said to return $5 for every tax dollar spent. CA is $30.

This is not all going back to the general fund of the state, but to the economy of the areas around the park.

 

Speaking as a taxpayer in PA, though, I don't mind this new fee. I want my tax dollars to go to maintaining and preserving the parkland. The fee is specific to the activity of geocaching, which has a limited audience. So does boating. I don't want tax dollars spent on giving boat owners access to a lake, so I don't mind if boat owners are charge a ramp fee. If you camp you pay a fee for the site, even if you are tenting and using no resources (ie electricity).

 

Edit: add Source of economic claims.

how many cache fees have You paid so far this year

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Speaking as a taxpayer in PA, though, I don't mind this new fee.

how many cache fees have You paid so far this year

 

Me? None.

Milton Shapp gave my state park to the Feds many years ago. I can't put ANY caches there. The nearest state parks to me are not very convenient. I go to Marsh Creek occasionally, and have spent a fair amount at their boat rental place and snack bar.

 

Perhaps the fact that I do not make much use of these parks contributes toward my lack of indignation over the fee. Is it too high? I think it probably is. I'll admit that I have not read the new regulations or seen any justifications for it. I think I will see if I can search for any. Maybe that will change my mind.

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The link below goes to a post in another thread on this topic (from June 2010).

It includes a statement from the PA DCNR.

The fee is NOT retroactive on existing caches. It would be due when the 3-year permits on those caches expire. The purpose of the fee is to cover the costs of reviewing the cache site, paperwork etc. They also say it is in line with park fees for other uses.

 

DCNR Response

 

It also illustrates several exemptions from the fees.

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Just an aside - there's far more insidious stuff happening in the Pennsylvania geocaching scene. Like this: http://solomonswords.blogspot.com/2010/10/...t-emporium.html

 

I'd rather pay $25 to a state park than see some store using a geocache to advertise.

 

I wonder if anyone went to this conference? Perhaps they could shed some light on it. Hopefully it revolved around how to stock your general store with geo-necessities or plan a restaurant specials.

There were folks from the Lily-pad scheduled to be there though as well as DNCR reps.

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Maybe some of you PA cachers know all about this but I just got the information. Another cacher and I were thinking of resurrecting an archived cache that had been at a PA State Park. I contacted the park and they said that they were okay with that, and to follow the instructions at http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/geocaching/permit-process.aspx

 

Now I knew that the PA DCNR required approval to place caches in their parks - and that's fine. I have yet to place one on their lands just because I didn't feel like dealing with their bureaucracy. But I did NOT know that there was a $25 fee for "a review process, including a Pennsylvania Natural Diversity Inventory search (PNDI) that insures its location is compatible with other park and forest activities." I have a feeling that whole process probably takes some ranger about 30 seconds of looking at a map, if even that.

 

Not only is there a substantial fee, but once you get approval, it is only good for three years. Then you have to go through the whole process again and apparently pay the fee again, too. They will forgo the fee if you do something like sponsor a CITO, but even that is up to the individual park.

 

Do other states charge fees for cache placement? Am I justified in being annoyed about this? B)

 

I should have known that in the end it all comes down to money.

 

Scubasonic

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Keep in mind that geocachers are using existing facilities. Unlike campers and boaters whose facilities are purpose built and require constant maintenance.

 

I don't think it's a matter of facilities as much as the time spent on approving, monitoring, and, at the end of the cache's time, rehabilitating a geocache site.

 

Unless a geocache is placed on or directly next to a trail, the geocachers aren't solely using existing facilities.

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If you want to puff up your chest and bark about "MY TAX DOLLARS," fine, but that kind of talk is unconvincing to the agencies that manage these lands. The tax money they're receiving is likely very limited and decreasing all the time. The money they do receive is likely earmarked for particular things, which may or may not include facilitating recreation.

 

It's very easy for a land manager to deem geocaches simply incompatible with their objectives, and ban the game entirely. It's happened in many places already. If a $25 fee to cover the expenses involved in a cache placement is what it takes to shift things more in our favour, I'll take it.

 

And hey, if it keeps some of the more unscrupulous cache owners from spamming up a park with caches just because the space is there, that's great too.

 

I agree with this. We've lost a lot of good will with park authorities over the years and if this is a step toward embracing the activity, I'm good with that.

 

In the case of PA there was good will between geocachers and park officials and the PA park system embraced geocaching long ago when they implemented the permit system and featured the sport on their website.

 

The new fee is just a money grab.

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Financially desperate political units are grasping at straws , literally, in their quest to raise money. So they are coming up with all sorts of cockamamie schemes for raising money. Most of which will cost more to administer than can reasonably be expected. BTW for 25 bucks a cache, you have effectively eliminated cache placement, I know I would not go there.These are some of the financial schemes and plans from yesterdays paper. That shows how desperate these governmental financial units have become.

 

Vanity License Plates To show what NFL Team you are a fan of.

Reduction in Social Security

Change the retirement age

No Cost of Living on SS

Removal of Home Mortgage Interest Deduction

 

Get

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BTW for 25 bucks a cache, you have effectively eliminated cache placement, I know I would not go there.

 

There are several people in this thread who have said they would happily pay.

 

While your reaction is perfectly valid, you are only a single data point. It is illogical to assume that everybody will behave in the same way.

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BTW for 25 bucks a cache, you have effectively eliminated cache placement, I know I would not go there.

 

There are several people in this thread who have said they would happily pay.

 

While your reaction is perfectly valid, you are only a single data point. It is illogical to assume that everybody will behave in the same way.

 

Let's compare the number of caches in NC state parks where a prohibitive fee has been in place for years, with the number of caches in a similar sized state park system that welcomes geocaches without a fee. That would be a good way to see how many people "happily pay".

Edited by briansnat
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Let's compare the number of caches in NC state parks where a prohibitive fee has been in place for years, with the number of caches in a similar sized state park system that welcomes geocaches without a fee. That would be a good way to see how many people "happily pay".

 

Yes, briansnat, it's well established that you place cache quantity in higher esteem than cache quality.

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Without knowing for sure, I'd bet that they wouldn't charge for virtuals. I suspect that the $8 annual fee is at least in some way tied to the physical presence of the cache.

 

I don't know about Virtuals, but Earthcaches, CITO events and those deemed educational are exempt. Further, cache placers can partner with the parks as volunteer & environmental educational advocates (or other means) as a way to request a waiver of the administrative fee.

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Let's compare the number of caches in NC state parks where a prohibitive fee has been in place for years, with the number of caches in a similar sized state park system that welcomes geocaches without a fee. That would be a good way to see how many people "happily pay".

 

Yes, briansnat, it's well established that you place cache quantity in higher esteem than cache quality.

 

Indeed, my record of finding and placing caches certainly bears that out. B)

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Without knowing for sure, I'd bet that they wouldn't charge for virtuals. I suspect that the $8 annual fee is at least in some way tied to the physical presence of the cache.

 

I don't know about Virtuals, but Earthcaches, CITO events and those deemed educational are exempt. Further, cache placers can partner with the parks as volunteer & environmental educational advocates (or other means) as a way to request a waiver of the administrative fee.

 

That seems fair - by volunteering with park programs, the cache owner is effectively off-setting the work the park needs to do to monitor the cache placement.

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Indeed, my record of finding and placing caches certainly bears that out. B)

 

Earlier you claimed it would cost you $4000 to keep your caches in place if you had to pay the fees.

 

You can complain about the numbers, or you can claim some cache quality moral high ground, but you can't do both.

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I suspect a couple of things.

 

One, that an $8 annual fee would reduce but not eliminate cache placements.

 

Two, that the fee would raise the average quality of placed caches, while also eliminating some good caches that would not get hidden for that price.

 

Yes, briansnat, it's well established that you place cache quantity in higher esteem than cache quality.

I don't believe this is true.

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I suspect a couple of things.

 

One, that an $8 annual fee would reduce but not eliminate cache placements.

 

Two, that the fee would raise the average quality of placed caches, while also eliminating some good caches that would not get hidden for that price.

 

 

I suspect know that a blanket ban on geocaches eliminates even more caches.

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Earlier you claimed it would cost you $4000 to keep your caches in place if you had to pay the fees.

 

You can complain about the numbers, or you can claim some cache quality moral high ground, but you can't do both.

Actually, I believe of all people in the NJ / NY area, briansnat is particularly qualified to do both. His cache placements are notable for their consistent quality and commitment to great spots and solid containers.

 

Putting out a lot of caches might have a negative correlation to cache quality in the aggregate. But it's unequivocally inapplicable to briansnat's placements.

 

If you have ever found a crappy briansnat cache, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

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Earlier you claimed it would cost you $4000 to keep your caches in place if you had to pay the fees.

 

You can complain about the numbers, or you can claim some cache quality moral high ground, but you can't do both.

Actually, I believe of all people in the NJ / NY area, briansnat is particularly qualified to do both. His cache placements are notable for their consistent quality and commitment to great spots and solid containers.

 

Putting out a lot of caches might have a negative correlation to cache quality in the aggregate. But it's unequivocally inapplicable to briansnat's placements.

 

If you have ever found a crappy briansnat cache, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

 

Let's not derail the thread with an extended discussion of that individual's character. It won't end well.

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Indeed, my record of finding and placing caches certainly bears that out. B)

 

Earlier you claimed it would cost you $4000 to keep your caches in place if you had to pay the fees.

 

You can complain about the numbers, or you can claim some cache quality moral high ground, but you can't do both.

 

You're right. I'll seriously consider concentrating on cache quality in the future over quantity. Thank you for opening my eyes.

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Earlier you claimed it would cost you $4000 to keep your caches in place if you had to pay the fees.

 

You can complain about the numbers, or you can claim some cache quality moral high ground, but you can't do both.

Actually, I believe of all people in the NJ / NY area, briansnat is particularly qualified to do both. His cache placements are notable for their consistent quality and commitment to great spots and solid containers.

 

Putting out a lot of caches might have a negative correlation to cache quality in the aggregate. But it's unequivocally inapplicable to briansnat's placements.

 

If you have ever found a crappy briansnat cache, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

 

Let's not derail the thread with an extended discussion of that individual's character. It won't end well.

 

Since you don't know me you would be particularly unqualified to enter in any sort of discussion.

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There are several people in this thread who have said they would happily pay.

 

Several ???,,,I went back through every post, and I could only find one person saying that they would "happily pay". Oh, and that person would be you. So your statement is Bishop Testimony.

 

While your reaction is perfectly valid, you are only a single data point

. But I am a swing data point, for I hide a few more than the average cacher, and if I balk at 25 per cache I suspect that those less inclined to hide in the first instance would be even more less inclined.

 

 It is illogical to assume that everybody will behave in the same way.

It is even more illogical to make the assumption that you imply, for I never stated that everybody will behave in the same way. But knowing that people act on their own perception of self interest it is safe to opine that more will forego the payment of fee. There is a strong pecuniary interest that plays into the decisions of many.

 

But I fear that I am becoming too preachy, something better left to you.

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First, I find it amusing that the most vocal opponents of the fee are from states thousands of miles from PA.

 

Second, PA has been reducing the budgets and staff headcounts, not just at parks but at other agencies as well. Its a Bullets or Butter thing. There is only so much money to go around. The Commonwealth is more likely to impose fees at parks than at libraries or cut funding for schools and firehouses. That's simple politics.

 

Third, I do not know if cachers really bring revenue into parks. I am familiar with only one park in the area. It has a series of caches placed by an established group in Feb 2010. They all have about 70 finds on them and are 2*/2* or below. There are several more difficult caches, a multi, a 4T. The 4T is a few hundred yards away from a 1.5/1.5 and has 97 finds in 5 years. This leads me to the conclusion that the cachers may not be staying long, but gathering numbers (this theory may be a stretch).

 

Fourth, lets assume that the job of checking cache sites for approval falls on the most junior member of the park staff. While they will be able to just look at a map and decide on some, or take the word for it from a well known friend of the park cacher, there will be ones they have to walk out to. That takes time away from other things. That most junior staff member is paid $15.69 per hour (wages for a DCNR ranger trainee with less than 8 years service for 2009). The typical cost for employee benefits in the private sector is 30%, it may be higher for government employees. That would work out to $20.39 per hour. The $25 fee covers 1-1/4 hours of the lowest staff members salary.

I don't know how long it takes to check a cache placement. The only cache I have found in a state park took me (according to my notebook) 45 minutes to walk to from the parking lot. I will stipulate that it would take the ranger 15 minutes, because I decided that the winding trail would better than bushwaking. The ranger should know this up front. The parking lot was maybe a 2 minute drive from the main buildings (not far, but the roads are not well paved). That is for a 1.5/1.5 cache. Several of the others are not at all close to roads. So that is 34 minutes or so. The 5* would likely take longer. They still need to deal with the paperwork, speaking with the cache owner. I can believe that would take 20-30 minutes.

Add in the $1 or $2 for that fancy DCNR Geocache sticker and $25 seems a reasonable cost estimate. Some will cost more, some less.

 

Fifth, the fee covers a 3 year period.

 

Finally, I, a Pennsylvania resident taxpayer, would happily pay this fee, if I lived near enough to a park to be able to do maintenance runs. And if I did, you can bet your sweet bippie that it wouldn't be a skirt lifter or a film can in a guard rail. :unsure:

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There are several people in this thread who have said they would happily pay.

 

Several ???,,,I went back through every post, and I could only find one person saying that they would "happily pay". Oh, and that person would be you. So your statement is Bishop Testimony.

 

I guess you didn't look that well! Here's what I had to say-

 

 

Imagine if your State Parks system said that it was planning to institute a permit system (including a placement fee). Would you put up a huge fuss about it because they're charging you to use 'your' land? Would you prefer they ban geocaching altogether? If they did ban geocaching, I bet that your opinions on paying for a permit would change quite quickly.

 

I can think of one Provincial Park system that demanded that we remove existing caches and refrain from placing new ones. I'd love to be able to pay $25 and place a cache in a Provincial Park! But, then again, I'm not morally opposed to being asked to pay the piper

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"I never stated that everybody will behave in the same way."

 

Earlier, you stated the following:

 

"BTW for 25 bucks a cache, you have effectively eliminated cache placement, I know I would not go there."

 

The word "eliminated" predicts that nobody will place caches, i.e. everybody will behave as you will.

 

If you did not mean to say as such, please explain why you chose the word "eliminated" as opposed to a more accurate word, like "reduced."

 

Perhaps you are using a non-standard definition of this word. If so, it is good practice to clarify the definition you are using in order to avoid confusion.

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There are several people in this thread who have said they would happily pay.

 

Several ???,,,I went back through every post, and I could only find one person saying that they would "happily pay". Oh, and that person would be you. So your statement is Bishop Testimony.

 

I guess you didn't look that well! Here's what I had to say-

 

 

Imagine if your State Parks system said that it was planning to institute a permit system (including a placement fee). Would you put up a huge fuss about it because they're charging you to use 'your' land? Would you prefer they ban geocaching altogether? If they did ban geocaching, I bet that your opinions on paying for a permit would change quite quickly.

 

I can think of one Provincial Park system that demanded that we remove existing caches and refrain from placing new ones. I'd love to be able to pay $25 and place a cache in a Provincial Park! But, then again, I'm not morally opposed to being asked to pay the piper

 

Just out of curiosity for what are you being asked to pay the piper? What added features do geocachers get for the $25? Boaters pay for boat ramps and docks and such. Campers pay for campsites, restrooms, perhaps shower facilities. Any hiking trails are already there. What added value over the basic use of the park has been added for the convenience of the geocacher?

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"I never stated that everybody will behave in the same way."

 

Earlier, you stated the following:

 

"BTW for 25 bucks a cache, you have effectively eliminated cache placement, I know I would not go there."

 

The word "eliminated" predicts that nobody will place caches, i.e. everybody will behave as you will.

 

If you did not mean to say as such, please explain why you chose the word "eliminated" as opposed to a more accurate word, like "reduced."

 

Perhaps you are using a non-standard definition of this word. If so, it is good practice to clarify the definition you are using in order to avoid confusion.

 

The word "effectively" in that statement does allow for the fact that a few may be willing to pay the Danegeld for the privilege of playing their game in a state park.

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Just out of curiosity for what are you being asked to pay the piper? What added features do geocachers get for the $25? Boaters pay for boat ramps and docks and such. Campers pay for campsites, restrooms, perhaps shower facilities. Any hiking trails are already there. What added value over the basic use of the park has been added for the convenience of the geocacher?

 

It is still their land to manage, and the increased traffic it would cause in (potentially) sensitive areas will require increased maintenance. I'm quite sure that reducing the number of caches placed without entirely banning them, is a big part of implementing a fee/permit system.

 

If I want to call the tune (i.e. place a cache on public land), I have absolutely no issues with having to pay the piper.

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Just out of curiosity for what are you being asked to pay the piper? What added features do geocachers get for the $25? Boaters pay for boat ramps and docks and such. Campers pay for campsites, restrooms, perhaps shower facilities. Any hiking trails are already there. What added value over the basic use of the park has been added for the convenience of the geocacher?

 

Having an MNR employee approve a geocache placement in an off-trail location is worth $25 to me.

 

Off-setting the costs involved in monitoring this off-trail activity, and possibly rehabilitating the cache location after the three years is up is worth $25 to me.

 

Again, keep in mind that my point of comparison is "total ban" vs. "fee."

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Just out of curiosity for what are you being asked to pay the piper? What added features do geocachers get for the $25? Boaters pay for boat ramps and docks and such. Campers pay for campsites, restrooms, perhaps shower facilities. Any hiking trails are already there. What added value over the basic use of the park has been added for the convenience of the geocacher?

 

It is still their land to manage, and the increased traffic it would cause in (potentially) sensitive areas will require increased maintenance. I'm quite sure that reducing the number of caches placed without entirely banning them, is a big part of implementing a fee/permit system.

 

If I want to call the tune (i.e. place a cache on public land), I have absolutely no issues with having to pay the piper.

 

You don't pay for the parks department when you pay you taxes? Or do you just not pay taxes? :unsure:

 

Geocachers are just hikers that play a game while hiking. Why should we have to pay extra when others do added things for free. Picnickers play Frisbee. Campers fly kites. They aren't paying extra for their added activities why should you?

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You don't pay for the parks department when you pay you taxes? Or do you just not pay taxes? :unsure:

 

Geocachers are just hikers that play a game while hiking. Why should we have to pay extra when others do added things for free. Picnickers play Frisbee. Campers fly kites. They aren't paying extra for their added activities why should you?

 

My taxes also pay for transit services, doesn't mean that I (well, I have a pass, but some people) don't have to pay $3.25 whenever they take the bus!

 

Also, hikers generally don't go off trail, thereby creating potential damage to the environment.

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Anyone who advocates this fee should go place two caches in that park now. After that I will believe you really will "happily pay". Until then its all talk.

 

It would take me at least 6 hours to drive to Pennsylvania from my house. It would be massively irresponsible for me to place a geocache so far from home (and in a different country, no less).

 

If Ontario ever implements a system like this, I will take you up on this.

 

But judging by the PA map, there are plenty of geocaches in PA state parks right now, and the fee has been in place for a few months (at least). People are either ponying up the cash, or volunteering in order to have it waived.

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Anyone who advocates this fee should go place two caches in that park now. After that I will believe you really will "happily pay". Until then its all talk.

 

Why? As I have stated repeatedly, I won't place a cache in a state park because there are none located close enough to me that I could enjoy it or maintain it. Do you have any in PA state parks?

 

Your statement is not logical.

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Anyone who advocates this fee should go place two caches in that park now. After that I will believe you really will "happily pay". Until then its all talk.

 

It would take me at least 6 hours to drive to Pennsylvania from my house. It would be massively irresponsible for me to place a geocache so far from home (and in a different country, no less).

 

If Ontario ever implements a system like this, I will take you up on this.

 

But judging by the PA map, there are plenty of geocaches in PA state parks right now, and the fee has been in place for a few months (at least). People are either ponying up the cash, or volunteering in order to have it waived.

Right. You can't place a cache there. Therefore its all talk. My point is I would like to see anyone place a few caches under these guidelines. I'm glad you THINK you would do it, but you are knowing unable to. 25$ fee is that same as saying "stop putting geocaches in the park".

 

PS I do not have any in PA state parks but could easily (should I care to pay 25$ which I NEVER will).

Edited by LukeTrocity
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Right. You can't place a cache there. Therefore its all talk. My point is I would like to see anyone place a few caches under these guidelines. I'm glad you THINK you would do it, but you are knowing unable to. 25$ fee is that same as saying "stop putting geocaches in the park".

 

We would definitely have caches in Provincial Parks if they were allowed. Even if we had to pay a fee. I'm also quite confident that there are many others around here who would happily do the same. Narcissa and I frequently go camping in Provincial Parks, and would love to be able to place caches in our favourite spots!

 

PS I do not have any in PA state parks but could easily (should I care to pay 25$ which I NEVER will).

 

Good for you. Narcissa and I would.

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Right. You can't place a cache there. Therefore its all talk. My point is I would like to see anyone place a few caches under these guidelines. I'm glad you THINK you would do it, but you are knowing unable to. 25$ fee is that same as saying "stop putting geocaches in the park".

 

We would definitely have caches in Provincial Parks if they were allowed. Even if we had to pay a fee. I'm also quite confident that there are many others around here who would happily do the same. Narcissa and I frequently go camping in Provincial Parks, and would love to be able to place caches in our favourite spots!

 

PS I do not have any in PA state parks but could easily (should I care to pay 25$ which I NEVER will).

 

Good for you. Narcissa and I would.

YOU WOULD. But yet you haven't. You are incapable due to distance rules or maintenance issues. Thats like me saying "I would pay 25$ to place caches in Ohio, but can't because I never go there". It's an empty statement, and my opinion wouldn't really hold any value since there's no way to tell if I'm being truthful.

 

AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY.

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You don't pay for the parks department when you pay you taxes? Or do you just not pay taxes? :unsure:

 

Geocachers are just hikers that play a game while hiking. Why should we have to pay extra when others do added things for free. Picnickers play Frisbee. Campers fly kites. They aren't paying extra for their added activities why should you?

 

I pay property tax, sales tax, and income tax in accordance with the law. I don't see why this is relevant.

 

The full operating costs of Ontario Parks are certainly not covered by taxes. The services offered at these parks vary from park to park, and they are highly dependent on the extra revenue the parks generate through fees, and fundraising efforts by auxillary volunteer organizations.

 

It is simply disingenuous to compare geocaching to a frisbee toss, or to insist that geocaching is just hiking plus GPS. It would be nice to think that all geocachers are lovely, environmentally-savvy, geeky hikers who love the earth and do no harm, but reality does not bear this out. Geocachers can and do cause problems. We've had some very bad PR that has done serious damage to the game's reputation. Denial doesn't change this fact.

 

On the bright side, there is more and more evidence showing that geocaching, well managed, can also be beneficial to parks. Paying for a cache placement, either in cash, or through volunteerism, might be a small sacrifice to make in order to further the greater cause and turn things in our favour.

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You don't pay for the parks department when you pay you taxes? Or do you just not pay taxes? :unsure:

 

 

Oh no, I pay, I pay plenty.

My taxes get paid to Harrisburg, not Albany, not Trenton, Sacramento, Olympia or Ontario.

I think they are high enough already.

 

The $25 fee? I don't mind. If my town charged the same for my park hide? I would pay.

 

:D

 

That would be Toronto :(

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Right. You can't place a cache there. Therefore its all talk. My point is I would like to see anyone place a few caches under these guidelines. I'm glad you THINK you would do it, but you are knowing unable to. 25$ fee is that same as saying "stop putting geocaches in the park".

 

PS I do not have any in PA state parks but could easily (should I care to pay 25$ which I NEVER will).

 

I'm looking at the geocaching map of Pennsylvania, and it appears that there are plenty of geocaches in state parks throughout the state. It would seem that some people are quite willing to pay the fee.

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YOU WOULD. But yet you haven't. You are incapable due to distance rules or maintenance issues. Thats like me saying "I would pay 25$ to place caches in Ohio, but can't because I never go there". It's an empty statement, and my opinion wouldn't really hold any value since there's no way to tell if I'm being truthful.

 

We would happily pay $25 to place caches in Ontario Provincial Parks, and would love to have the opportunity to do so.

 

 

AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY.

 

There's no need to yell...

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Right. You can't place a cache there. Therefore its all talk. My point is I would like to see anyone place a few caches under these guidelines. I'm glad you THINK you would do it, but you are knowing unable to. 25$ fee is that same as saying "stop putting geocaches in the park".

 

PS I do not have any in PA state parks but could easily (should I care to pay 25$ which I NEVER will).

 

I'm looking at the geocaching map of Pennsylvania, and it appears that there are plenty of geocaches in state parks throughout the state. It would seem that some people are quite willing to pay the fee.

 

Unless you look at each cache individually, there is no real way of knowing, since the implementation of the fee was just in June.

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Right. You can't place a cache there. Therefore its all talk. My point is I would like to see anyone place a few caches under these guidelines. I'm glad you THINK you would do it, but you are knowing unable to. 25$ fee is that same as saying "stop putting geocaches in the park".

 

We would definitely have caches in Provincial Parks if they were allowed. Even if we had to pay a fee. I'm also quite confident that there are many others around here who would happily do the same. Narcissa and I frequently go camping in Provincial Parks, and would love to be able to place caches in our favourite spots!

 

PS I do not have any in PA state parks but could easily (should I care to pay 25$ which I NEVER will).

 

Good for you. Narcissa and I would.

YOU WOULD. But yet you haven't. You are incapable due to distance rules or maintenance issues. Thats like me saying "I would pay 25$ to place caches in Ohio, but can't because I never go there". It's an empty statement, and my opinion wouldn't really hold any value since there's no way to tell if I'm being truthful.

 

AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY.

 

And your statements are completely theory too as you have already stated that you are also too far from a PA park to make cache placement practical.

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