Pet Peave!

[+addisonbr]

Why would you insist on holding a door if someone tells you they don't want you to? A polite person apologizes for the intrusion and backs off, knowing that the gesture was kindly meant if not kindly received. Insisting on holding a door for someone after she unambiguously tells you she doesn't want you to is not kind. It's an imposition, and it's demeaning. Barking at her that you're doing it because you're a gentleman is just laughable. A gentleman doesn't impose himself on someone like that.

Do people actually do this? In the real non-internet world?

I don't think that it's unimaginable that someone might say 'I got it' or something similar to let someone know that holding the door for her is unnecessary.

Okay, sure, fair enough. To be clear, do people really get that torqued up over somebody holding a door for them? And do people then "bark" at people who don't want doors held open for them?

I think witty one-liner put downs is more of a "Winston Churchill urban legend" phenomenon than a real-world thing.

 

I had a TA in college who was blind, and she had an uncomfortable encounter with someone who wanted to help her. She was waiting to cross the street, he tried to help, but in doing so sort of took her arm, she got angry, he got offended and a little angry back (probably amplified with uncomfortable embarrassment), etc.

 

But I don't think that's a typical scenario.

[+Castle Mischief]

For me, it's more along the lines of:

 

Vaguely Creepy Man: Let me get that for you.

 

Me: Oh, no thank you.

 

Vaguely Creepy Man: YOU DON'T NEED TO BE SO STUCK UP.

 

Me: *frightened stare, finds alternate exit*

 

Ah, I see your point now.

[+narcissa]

For me, it's more along the lines of:

 

Vaguely Creepy Man: Let me get that for you.

 

Me: Oh, no thank you.

 

Vaguely Creepy Man: YOU DON'T NEED TO BE SO STUCK UP.

 

Me: *frightened stare, finds alternate exit*

 

Ah, I see your point now.

 

"I WAS JUST TRYING TO BE FRIENDLY" is another good one. Friendly, indeed. I suppose that's why you're shouting at me?

[+lil_cav_wings]

I find that "stuck up" isn't usually the phrase used. It's normally, "you don't have to be such a b****."

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

It'll suck when people (not just men) stop holding doors and being polite to each other. Huh...

 

+1.

 

I hold the door open when people (men or women) have an armful of bags or a briefcase in one hand and a cup of coffee in the other. And sometimes when they are right behind me, I'll hold it open.

 

I fail to see what the big deal is. For someone to say "there's no need to hold it open" is kinda silly in my opinion. Say thanks and move on.

[+narcissa]

It'll suck when people (not just men) stop holding doors and being polite to each other. Huh...

 

+1.

 

I hold the door open when people (men or women) have an armful of bags or a briefcase in one hand and a cup of coffee in the other. And sometimes when they are right behind me, I'll hold it open.

 

I fail to see what the big deal is. For someone to say "there's no need to hold it open" is kinda silly in my opinion. Say thanks and move on.

 

The offer of help is kind. Insistence is not.

 

It's usually not a big deal, but there are occasions when, for whatever reason, the offer is unwelcome. For me, it's usually because I feel threatened, for whatever reason. So I say "No thanks," and move on, in order to end the interaction.

 

If you feel it's "silly" to go with my gut instinct, oh well. If taking care of my safety makes me look silly, that's okay by me.

[+northernpenguin]

For me, it's more along the lines of:

 

Vaguely Creepy Man: Let me get that for you.

 

Me: Oh, no thank you.

 

Vaguely Creepy Man: YOU DON'T NEED TO BE SO STUCK UP.

 

Me: *frightened stare, finds alternate exit*

 

Ah, I see your point now.

 

"I WAS JUST TRYING TO BE FRIENDLY" is another good one. Friendly, indeed. I suppose that's why you're shouting at me?

 

This conversation thread gets WAY more entertaining if you're familiar with any of the Discworld novels ... like, say, Mort.

[+northernpenguin]

The offer of help is kind. Insistence is not.

 

The question I have here, is how far away from the door are you when you are declining? Nobody wants to close a door in someone's face. Male or female.

[+northernpenguin]

Back ON topic, I couldn't care less when the FTF gets around to logging - if ever.

 

Some people don't log online. They still found it.

Some people find caches on trips. I know I won't be logging any FTFs I get in Florida when I visit next year, because it costs me $3/Mb when I use the Geocaching app in the USA. My carrier would LOVE me to write logs instantly. If I get an FTF on that trip, it'll be a fluke and you'll see my log a week later.

 

I do play the FTF game and I've been beaten to many caches, even back in the days before I had mobile internet capabilities. In 2003 nobody would complain if you logged your find a few days later ... took that long for the computer to start up.

[+baloo&bd]

After reading the thread, the problem appears to be some males that are too sensitive and some females that are painfully insecure.

 

Which makes me being able to log FTF when I get around to it even more relevant than before.

[+Scubasonic]

Would it not be similarly appropriate for me to request that those who do play the FTF game be courteous to those of us who do not, and refrain from posting obnoxious "Nyah nyah FTF WOO HOO!!!" logs on their FTFs, and keep the taunting and in-your face comments to private emails?

 

No it would not be appropriate to request that IMO

 

SS

[+lil_cav_wings]

After reading the thread, the problem appears to be some males that are too sensitive and some females that are painfully insecure.

 

Speak for yourself!

 

I don't think that narcissa's decline of someone holding a door open is rooted in insecurity. In her shoes I would feel put off by the whole experience too, if someone took her politely turning down assistance that she didn't request as a sign of haughtiness and then said something rude about it to her.

 

I gotcha. Politeness and consideration for others goes along way. But if you politely decline something because something about the situation gave you a weird feeling, that's your "personal common sense" meter. Just don't be rude.

[g_o_caching]

Posted 01 November 2010 - 09:12 PM

 

Rant On: One of the things that irritates me is someone finding a FTF and then waiting several days to post their find.

 

On more than one occasion I have been second to find and can understand the logs not being updated for an hour or so, but for the find not to posted as found in a timely manner even days later and in one case over 2 weeks before the finder posted his FTF log is inconsiderate of other cachers.

 

Ok Rant OFF.

 

########################################################################################################

 

You mean that you were ONLY going to this cache to get a FTF and someone beat you to it? It's OK that they beat you by an hour or so but when they beat you by days or in one case 2 weeks then they are being inconsiderate? If you didn't go for it for days or weeks after it was posted, did you really think you would be FTF?

 

FTF means first to find, maybe they can start another side game in the FTF side game that has FTFAL (first to find and log)and then you can log it. This game was started to see who could find a cache. Not who could find it the fastest, but to see if they could find it at all. FTF are all a matter of "time and place". If you are in the right place at the right time when a new cache is posted you have the advantage over the rest. I have 2 FTF's, one was 4 blocks from my house and the other was a .6 mile hike one way 23 miles from my home that no one had gone for after 11 days. They aren't of any more importance than a cache I signed on the 3rd page.

[+bentcaver]

i do like when i go to a cache and the SWAG is SWAG. I find toooooo many that the SWAG is just junk. Many Cache Owner went out of their way to develop a nice cache for others to enjoy an then along come several people that can not follow a simple guideline of (trade even, trade up or don't trade.) I have been working with my 5 year old on the value of trade items. He is getting the idea. He comes to me and says the SWAG is junk and there is nothing worth trading for. Before he wanted to trade even for junk.

 

Sillybans are great, if they do not look like a 7 year old had then and played in the mud.

Kids Meals Toys are fine as well, if it does not look like was chewed by the family toddler.

key tags are neat, but not the one that haas been on your keyring for the last year.

 

Trade Even, Treade Up or Don't Trade

Edited December 21, 2010 by bentcaver

[+bflentje]

<!--quoteo(post=4563776:date=Dec 20 2010, 10:09 AM:name=Castle Mischief)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Castle Mischief @ Dec 20 2010, 10:09 AM) 4563776[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

<!--quoteo(post=4563758:date=Dec 20 2010, 08:57 AM:name=narcissa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(narcissa @ Dec 20 2010, 08:57 AM) 4563758[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

For me, it's more along the lines of:

 

Vaguely Creepy Man: Let me get that for you.

 

Me: Oh, no thank you.

 

Vaguely Creepy Man: YOU DON'T NEED TO BE SO STUCK UP.

 

Me: *frightened stare, finds alternate exit*

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

 

Ah, I see your point now.

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

 

"I WAS JUST TRYING TO BE FRIENDLY" is another good one. Friendly, indeed. I suppose that's why you're shouting at me?

 

Your scenario above is COMPLETEY different than the context of your original rant about holding doors and manners. If you had stated this to begin with, I would have judged you completely different than I did.

[+John in Valley Forge]

<!--quoteo(post=4563688:date=Dec 20 2010, 07:37 AM:name=narcissa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(narcissa @ Dec 20 2010, 07:37 AM) 4563688[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

Why would you insist on holding a door if someone tells you they don't want you to? A polite person apologizes for the intrusion and backs off, knowing that the gesture was kindly meant if not kindly received. Insisting on holding a door for someone after she unambiguously tells you she doesn't want you to is not kind. It's an imposition, and it's demeaning. Barking at her that you're doing it because you're a gentleman is just laughable. A gentleman doesn't impose himself on someone like that.

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

 

Do people actually do this? In the real non-internet world?

 

Yes, I hold the door for people walking behind me all the time. Sometimes they are women, sometimes men. Sometimes they hold it open for me.

 

I don't think I've ever had someone get upset with me about it.

[+The Jester]

<!--quoteo(post=4563688:date=Dec 20 2010, 07:37 AM:name=narcissa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(narcissa @ Dec 20 2010, 07:37 AM) 4563688[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

Why would you insist on holding a door if someone tells you they don't want you to? A polite person apologizes for the intrusion and backs off, knowing that the gesture was kindly meant if not kindly received. Insisting on holding a door for someone after she unambiguously tells you she doesn't want you to is not kind. It's an imposition, and it's demeaning. Barking at her that you're doing it because you're a gentleman is just laughable. A gentleman doesn't impose himself on someone like that.

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

 

Do people actually do this? In the real non-internet world?

 

Yes, I hold the door for people walking behind me all the time. Sometimes they are women, sometimes men. Sometimes they hold it open for me.

 

I don't think I've ever had someone get upset with me about it.

I have had feminist who used almost that exact line (from the original "story") - "Don't hold the door for me because I'm a woman!" The man's response was explaining his motivation, it wasn't about who she was, but about who he was/is. I was relating to posting an FTF response quickly, not because I have to, but because it is "gentlemanly".

[+John in Valley Forge]

<!--quoteo(post=4563688:date=Dec 20 2010, 07:37 AM:name=narcissa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(narcissa @ Dec 20 2010, 07:37 AM) 4563688[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

Why would you insist on holding a door if someone tells you they don't want you to? A polite person apologizes for the intrusion and backs off, knowing that the gesture was kindly meant if not kindly received. Insisting on holding a door for someone after she unambiguously tells you she doesn't want you to is not kind. It's an imposition, and it's demeaning. Barking at her that you're doing it because you're a gentleman is just laughable. A gentleman doesn't impose himself on someone like that.

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

 

Do people actually do this? In the real non-internet world?

 

Yes, I hold the door for people walking behind me all the time. Sometimes they are women, sometimes men. Sometimes they hold it open for me.

 

I don't think I've ever had someone get upset with me about it.

I have had feminist who used almost that exact line (from the original "story") - "Don't hold the door for me because I'm a woman!" The man's response was explaining his motivation, it wasn't about who she was, but about who he was/is. I was relating to posting an FTF response quickly, not because I have to, but because it is "gentlemanly".

 

Wow, I guess I've just been lucky.

[+narcissa]

 

Yes, I hold the door for people walking behind me all the time. Sometimes they are women, sometimes men. Sometimes they hold it open for me.

 

I don't think I've ever had someone get upset with me about it.

 

Sometimes someone will make a big production out of it, and that's when it can be uncomfortable.

[+narcissa]

I have had feminist who used almost that exact line (from the original "story") - "Don't hold the door for me because I'm a woman!" The man's response was explaining his motivation, it wasn't about who she was, but about who he was/is. I was relating to posting an FTF response quickly, not because I have to, but because it is "gentlemanly".

 

The story makes no sense. The woman is rude, and then the man is rude back. It's just a pointless story about two strangers being rude to each other.

 

Darn feminists screwing up the social order. How dare they!

[+bflentje]

I have had feminist who used almost that exact line (from the original "story") - "Don't hold the door for me because I'm a woman!" The man's response was explaining his motivation, it wasn't about who she was, but about who he was/is. I was relating to posting an FTF response quickly, not because I have to, but because it is "gentlemanly".

 

The story makes no sense. The woman is rude, and then the man is rude back. It's just a pointless story about two strangers being rude to each other.

 

Darn feminists screwing up the social order. How dare they!

 

You'll eventually come to your senses once you grow up and get married, have a few children, have a real job, having lived your life in the real world away from the university. I have faith in you. Ok,

[+sbell111]

I have had feminist who used almost that exact line (from the original "story") - "Don't hold the door for me because I'm a woman!" The man's response was explaining his motivation, it wasn't about who she was, but about who he was/is. I was relating to posting an FTF response quickly, not because I have to, but because it is "gentlemanly".

 

The story makes no sense. The woman is rude, and then the man is rude back. It's just a pointless story about two strangers being rude to each other.

 

Darn feminists screwing up the social order. How dare they!

 

You'll eventually come to your senses once you grow up and get married, have a few children, have a real job, having lived your life in the real world away from the university. I have faith in you. Ok,

Wow. Why didn't you just tell her to stay in the kitchen with her mouth shut?

[+lil_cav_wings]

 

I can deal with partially baby-masticated Silly Bandz or used shotgun shell casings, but nothing is worse than sticking your hand in a poorly sealed rubbermaid jar and being greated by soggy contents... made slimey by someone swagging-out with a half used plastic jar of bubbles. Even better when you pulled the offending jar of bubbles out and the lid slips and the whole thing dumps on in your lap.

 

Awesome. Thanks. Really.

Edited December 22, 2010 by lil_cav_wings

[+Chokecherry]

As a feminist I simply do the radical move and say "thank you" and then go forth to the next door and hold that for the person who held the door for me (usually this happens where there are double doors for me). Seems to work out ok. I'm never in a situation where someone is forcing their help on me (I exclude any door opening as forcing help). In my weird feminist world I have bigger battles to fight than what one does with a door. And I also offer to help if I see someone struggling with something regardless of gender.

 

That being said I have many obligations in life and will not rearrange those obligations to log my caches any faster. I have a friend who is lucky to do it once a month due to how busy he is. But since FTF is not a big deal here and hardly could be considered a race it is a non-issue. And since all the people who cache where I am are cognisant that we all have obligations outside of this hobby it never is an issue. I was third to find on a cache once and logged before the second to find and noted in the log that I wasn't going to "retrieve" the coin in a log until the STF had a chance to drop it and guess what the world didn't end and I wasn't remotely annoyed she didn't get around to logging that cache for awhile. I was second to find on another cache with my friend. We did a co-stf and I logged it soon after.... I'm not sure if he ever logged it. And the world didn't end then either.

[+narcissa]

I have had feminist who used almost that exact line (from the original "story") - "Don't hold the door for me because I'm a woman!" The man's response was explaining his motivation, it wasn't about who she was, but about who he was/is. I was relating to posting an FTF response quickly, not because I have to, but because it is "gentlemanly".

 

The story makes no sense. The woman is rude, and then the man is rude back. It's just a pointless story about two strangers being rude to each other.

 

Darn feminists screwing up the social order. How dare they!

 

You'll eventually come to your senses once you grow up and get married, have a few children, have a real job, having lived your life in the real world away from the university. I have faith in you. Ok,

 

Fascinating theory, but pretty far off-base. Being married, widowed at 24, married again, having a kid, owning a house, and being part of the workforce over the past ten years has probably made me more of a feminist than I was in my 20s. I came to my senses a long time ago when I stopped letting people treat me a lesser person because of my gender.

 

Comments like yours make it very apparent why feminism is so important. There are too many people like you who would be happy to see me miserable and subservient to others simply because I'm a woman.