Jump to content

why cant others play fair?


:DK

Recommended Posts

ok, so the other day i got an email about 2 new caches in the area.. the ftf prize was a monkeys fist in both of them. my son hates geocaching, but he wanted the keychain so he was all about going, even if it ment he had to go on long hikes.. we get to the first one, and as expected someone got it.. we get to the second one.. the same person got it.. ok, no big problem, they got there before us, a little sad that my son didnt get the keychain.. went home and logged it. looked at the persons profile that got both ftfs. to my surprise they are not even a premium member.. to my bigger surpise, the last cache they found was in march, to an even bigger surprise, they commented that they had made the nature trail that one of the caches was on... then the only 2 caches they logged was these 2. this is when it started bothering me.. for one, this guy probably knows how to make the monkeys fist.. why did he have to take them both? two, my son hates geocaching, hates hiking, but went out on this warm day in hopes of getting at least one monkeys fist..

this guy had to been told by the person that hid it that it was there.. how else would someone be as lucky to just randomly log on after not caching for 7 months and find 2 new just published caches, one of which being on a nature trail that they themselves made, (or at least claimed to)

 

has anyone else had any bad experiances like this? or am i just the one being bad?? honestly this would not have bothered me if the person actively geocached, as i have been beat to several ftfs, and was not upset, but this one just bothers me...

Link to comment

ok, so the other day i got an email about 2 new caches in the area.. the ftf prize was a monkeys fist in both of them. my son hates geocaching, but he wanted the keychain so he was all about going, even if it ment he had to go on long hikes.. we get to the first one, and as expected someone got it.. we get to the second one.. the same person got it.. ok, no big problem, they got there before us, a little sad that my son didnt get the keychain.. went home and logged it. looked at the persons profile that got both ftfs. to my surprise they are not even a premium member.. to my bigger surpise, the last cache they found was in march, to an even bigger surprise, they commented that they had made the nature trail that one of the caches was on... then the only 2 caches they logged was these 2. this is when it started bothering me.. for one, this guy probably knows how to make the monkeys fist.. why did he have to take them both? two, my son hates geocaching, hates hiking, but went out on this warm day in hopes of getting at least one monkeys fist..

this guy had to been told by the person that hid it that it was there.. how else would someone be as lucky to just randomly log on after not caching for 7 months and find 2 new just published caches, one of which being on a nature trail that they themselves made, (or at least claimed to)

 

has anyone else had any bad experiances like this? or am i just the one being bad?? honestly this would not have bothered me if the person actively geocached, as i have been beat to several ftfs, and was not upset, but this one just bothers me...

 

All's fair in love, war and FTFs.

Link to comment

What is this monkey's fist thing?

 

I don't bother with the FTF deal. I work one of those 8-5 M-F jobs. The people who always get them around here have free time during the day.

I had to google it. Interestingly (or not), I've had one of these on my keyring for years, but never knew what it was called.

monkey_fist_keychain.jpg

Link to comment

Wow you sound like a sore loser. That person made both FTF's and that entitles him/her to both prizes, and did you think maybe they had a son/daughter that wanted one also? If that person made the trails then maybe that inspired him/her to get back into the sport and that's a great thing. It's not cheating as you are implying, its more like if someone puts a cache right by you, will you not go for it?!

 

Also, I really don't see the reasoning behind your anger, especially about the "not a premium member" comment. This sport/game is not about being a premium member. It's a game that anyone can play, thanks to the contributions you and I make by being premium members, and that makes me feel dammn good. I played for a while as a regular member, as I'm sure you did as well, and that never deterred me from claiming a prize or a cache, nor should it. Looking down at non-premium members is disgraceful behavior.

 

I am sorry you wasted your sons time and most likely drew him further from the game, but if you are an experienced cacher, you must have been prepared for not being the FTF. And as for your question, yes it happens all the time, losing is part of the game, so get over it!

Edited by PPxTORO
Link to comment

He played fair... but not nice.

 

We have an active group of FTF players in this area. I am sometimes one of them. You had better be early and fast if you want FTF around here... like 30 minutes in the city and 4 or 5 hours on rural caches. I can't remember when one lasted a day without being found no matter how remote.

 

But, those of us who regularly play FTF don't take the FTF prize, we leave it for the STF. Our 'prize' is the unsigned log. B)

 

In the OP's described situation it would have been nice to take the first FTF prize and leave the second, but it was certainly fair to take both.

 

As to the implied attitude "I hunted it, therefore I deserve...whatever" the unfair part is not teaching your son that the only thing one can expect from a geocache hunt is a fun time.

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
Link to comment

What is this monkey's fist thing?

 

I don't bother with the FTF deal. I work one of those 8-5 M-F jobs. The people who always get them around here have free time during the day.

I had to google it. Interestingly (or not), I've had one of these on my keyring for years, but never knew what it was called.

monkey_fist_keychain.jpg

 

Well, I'll bet most people had to Google that, including a person who owns one. Me, I knew exactly what a Monkey's fist was. Mainly because I saw all sorts of references to them in caches in Southern Ontario (I believe it was), when I was planning a trip to a certain region there. Then of course I said to myself "Self, what in the name of heck is a Monkey's fist?" and googled it. B)

 

People giving coordinates to their homeboy's before publishing? Happens all the time, all over the place. I've seen many a thread here about it. Haven't seen it too much in my area, but a couple of guys were doing it on each other's caches when I started back in 2003 (and it was totally obvious). I also was "victimized" (not that I care), when I was in the right place at the right time hundreds of miles from home 5 years ago or so. The log was signed about a week prior, and the homeboy waited until after I logged to log his find.

 

They say all is fair in the FTF sub-game. But I certainly can see where you're coming from, your frustration, and the disappointment of a child going looking for these things. Maybe Sbell111 will send you his. :anibad:

Link to comment

ummmm............the not a premium member comment was about them not getting notifications and implying that there is something fishy going on.

 

Yes thanks for making that clear, I can almost see how the comment fits in more....but this person is still a very sore loser.

Link to comment

He played fair... but not nice.

 

In the OP's described situation it would have been nice to take the first FTF prize and leave the second, but it was certainly fair to take both.

 

As to the implied attitude "I hunted it, therefore I deserve...whatever" the unfair part is not teaching your son that the only thing one can expect from a geocache hunt is a fun time.

Ditto

Link to comment

I'm going to have to side with the fellow who got the FTF's.

 

The person who got the FTF's is a newbie who only had 10 finds before this and those two FTF's were his first FTF's ever. As someone who's been beat out on many FTF's (and never taken an FTF prize), I just don't see anything to get upset about. I happy for the 'noob'. B)

Link to comment

two, my son hates geocaching, hates hiking, but went out on this warm day in hopes of getting at least one monkeys fist..

 

Sounds like someone needs their (deleted by moderator) beat. Either you for dragging him out there to do something you know he didn't want to do or your son so he will learn to shut the hell up and do what you tell him to without whining all the time.

 

Outstanding parental advice. Perhaps a few days in the hole will change his mind too.

 

Where did she say anything about whining? She didn't. She just said he hates geocaching and hiking. My kids hate it, too. Nothing wrong with that.

 

To the OP, it's a shame your kid didn't get one of the prizes. I can tell from your post that you knew this was a likely scenario and you didn't feel bad about it until it became apparent that some behind-the-scene pre-publishing coord sharing was likely going on. I'd feel bad, too, if I were in your shoes. And if indeed some pre-publishing coord sharing did happen, then it was a little tacky of the FTF to take both FTF prizes - not unfair, but tacky.

Link to comment
They say all is fair in the FTF sub-game. But I certainly can see where you're coming from, your frustration, and the disappointment of a child going looking for these things. Maybe Sbell111 will send you his. :anibad:
I can't give mine away. It was a FTF prize, after all. B)

 

Of course, the OP and his son could simply

of these. It might be an enjoyable little fatther/son project, after all.
Link to comment

Cool, now that someone has posted a how-to link in the thread your son can make his very own. I bet that will be much more fulfilling that being dragged on a hike you don't want to take just to get some trinkets out of a cache you don't really care about.

 

1000 bonus points to lachupa and narcissa

 

Of course just like Whose Line is it Anyway, the points don't count, it's all made up, and the fun is all that matters.

Link to comment

Life just isn't fair sometimes. It's too bad your kid doesn't like hiking... maybe instead of complaining about how it stinks that you didn't get the FTF or the monkeys fist, try to encourage your child to appreciate nature and hiking. Teach him something about the surroundings, what kinds of plants or animals live there, and praise him for his accomplishment in heading out there and finding the cache. Oregon is a wonderful beautiful place with so much to appreciate; which is why I moved here by choice.

 

As for the other people being 'non active' cachers and 'non premium members,' who cares? Also, just because the person worked on the trail doesn't mean that they even know the cache owner or were told about the cache to begin with. And if so... who cares? Maybe it was a good thing for them to have an opportunity for an FTF, because maybe they don't normally get one. And maybe they too had children who were just itching to get a monkey's fist...

 

there's always more than one way to think about a scenario. That's what I try to do... and then I usually lose at least some of the angst that I have.

 

And I can tell you from personal experience, there's always something wonderful about hiking in Oregon! From the perspective of someone who could not even walk a couple of years ago, I tell you that each time I'm able to go out and hike I consider it a blessing and a privilege.

Link to comment

Rather than teaching your boys that they deserve a prize simply because they tried, you might want to consider teaching them that you have to work harder than the next person if you want to be a winner. Better yet, teach them about the journey rather than the destination.

 

You didn't mention that the "guy" who beat you out happens to be the (ex)Eagle Scout that completed the "Cache to Eagle" project that the cache is based on.

 

P.S. Your post does not mention the part where he didn't "play fair" or did I miss that?

Link to comment

ok, so the other day i got an email about 2 new caches in the area.. the ftf prize was a monkeys fist in both of them. my son hates geocaching, but he wanted the keychain so he was all about going, even if it ment he had to go on long hikes.. we get to the first one, and as expected someone got it.. we get to the second one.. the same person got it.. ok, no big problem, they got there before us, a little sad that my son didnt get the keychain.. went home and logged it. looked at the persons profile that got both ftfs. to my surprise they are not even a premium member.. to my bigger surpise, the last cache they found was in march, to an even bigger surprise, they commented that they had made the nature trail that one of the caches was on... then the only 2 caches they logged was these 2. this is when it started bothering me.. for one, this guy probably knows how to make the monkeys fist.. why did he have to take them both? two, my son hates geocaching, hates hiking, but went out on this warm day in hopes of getting at least one monkeys fist..

this guy had to been told by the person that hid it that it was there.. how else would someone be as lucky to just randomly log on after not caching for 7 months and find 2 new just published caches, one of which being on a nature trail that they themselves made, (or at least claimed to)

 

has anyone else had any bad experiances like this? or am i just the one being bad?? honestly this would not have bothered me if the person actively geocached, as i have been beat to several ftfs, and was not upset, but this one just bothers me...

 

I read through this a couple times and other than the disappointment, can't find where the cheating took place.

 

I often give out my coords to fellow cachers waiting for it to be published and often find caches with many logs before it was published.

Link to comment
They say all is fair in the FTF sub-game. But I certainly can see where you're coming from, your frustration, and the disappointment of a child going looking for these things. Maybe Sbell111 will send you his. :anibad:
I can't give mine away. It was a FTF prize, after all. B)

 

Of course, the OP and his son could simply

of these. It might be an enjoyable little fatther/son project, after all.

 

thats not going to happen, my sons father left 9 years ago...

Link to comment
They say all is fair in the FTF sub-game. But I certainly can see where you're coming from, your frustration, and the disappointment of a child going looking for these things. Maybe Sbell111 will send you his. :o
I can't give mine away. It was a FTF prize, after all. B)

 

Of course, the OP and his son could simply

of these. It might be an enjoyable little fatther/son project, after all.

 

thats not going to happen, my sons father left 9 years ago...

 

I'm pretty sure he meant motther/son project, then. :anibad: Not a bad suggestion, really.

Link to comment

thanks to the ones who understand where i am coming from. to the ones that are putting more words into what i said, they need to reread the original paragraph.

i was not mad that someone beat me to the ftf, i expected that anyways. i was upset that, like someone else said. it seemed a little fishy. i can probaby guarentee that this person will not even attempt to look for another until the next cache in the series is published.

someone called them a noobie.. they have been a member since feb, only cached in feb-march, that is when they found their 10 caches. i have only been a member since july...

i never said anyone cheated.. how can you cheat in a game with no rules?

for those who felt that i was taking this out on them, i was not.. do you have a guilty conscience?

my son doesnt like hiking because he has asthma and allergies... something that nature makes miserable.. also, he actually did not whine the whole day. (i remember someone saying he needs to quit whining.)

we have tried to make these before. i still have the nylon cord.. its not as easy as it looks..

You didn't mention that the "guy" who beat you out happens to be the (ex)Eagle Scout that completed the "Cache to Eagle" project that the cache is based on.

lol i didnt want to exactly mention that... didnt want people to think that i was hating on boyscouts. (-:

Link to comment

I think the unfair part that she is talking about is that they must have gotten the coords from the owner before it was published because they don't have notification.

 

Many play this game unfair. I've learned that one for sure!!

 

and most people don't care how they treat each other.

 

Make your own Monkey's fist and move on.

 

Have fun playing, and don't let the other players get you down.

 

Just ignore them.

 

And don't get your expectations up around FTF's. There are tons who give out the coords to their friends. That's just how some play.

 

And don't get your expectations up around people playing fair. Because they won't.

 

And here on the forums they are just looking for a feeding frenzy.

 

Don't let them all get you down. Just ignore them.

 

Have fun in spite of them.

Link to comment

 

I'm afraid that my first attempt was "knot" a work of art B)

 

d7425551-86f9-4327-83ae-6611a172e517.jpg

 

My son gave me a good naturedly, "Atta Boy Dad!"

 

it doesnt seem that you have anything on the inside.. most people put a die on the inside. some also use a steel ball. it is also helpful to get 4 pencils and tape them in two separate pieces, then use them to hold the die..

yes i do know how to make these, but i have tried and tried, but mine do not come out right... (-:

Link to comment

Keep practicing! :D

 

The Monkey's Fist is one of the first knots sailors learn. It has many practical purposes.

 

Primarily the Monkey’s Fist is tied on the end of a rope to be used as a heaving line, or a line to be thrown over distance. This heaving line could then be attached to a larger or heavier line and pulled into position.

 

A Monkey’s Fist was historically used to run a line for ship-to-ship operations due to the fact that it could be tied with a weighted core inserted and would endure many tosses back and forth. Even though shot line (a line tied to a projectile fired from a gun) is the standard for sending line from ship to ship today the Monkey's Fist is still in use.

 

The Monkey’s Fist is commonly used today as a stopper knot, to stop the end of a rope from passing through a hole.

 

Try tying the Monkey’s Fist with a large marble as the weighted core, but anything could be used from a golf ball to a metal nut.

 

A Monkey's Fist with a weight in it was the early version of what we now know as a blackjack, and properly tied will put a large knot on the head of the unfortunate hit with one! :laughing:

Link to comment

Keep practicing! :D

 

The Monkey's Fist is one of the first knots sailors learn. It has many practical purposes.

 

Primarily the Monkey’s Fist is tied on the end of a rope to be used as a heaving line, or a line to be thrown over distance. This heaving line could then be attached to a larger or heavier line and pulled into position.

 

A Monkey’s Fist was historically used to run a line for ship-to-ship operations due to the fact that it could be tied with a weighted core inserted and would endure many tosses back and forth. Even though shot line (a line tied to a projectile fired from a gun) is the standard for sending line from ship to ship today the Monkey's Fist is still in use.

 

The Monkey’s Fist is commonly used today as a stopper knot, to stop the end of a rope from passing through a hole.

 

Try tying the Monkey’s Fist with a large marble as the weighted core, but anything could be used from a golf ball to a metal nut.

 

A Monkey's Fist with a weight in it was the early version of what we now know as a blackjack, and properly tied will put a large knot on the head of the unfortunate hit with one! :laughing:

 

This wins the thread.

Link to comment

The caches were part of a "Cache to Eagle" series by "Black Fox; Dist. Advancments" and the young man who signed a blank log wrote: "My first ever FTF and what a great FTF it was at my very own eagle project, thank you for honoring my project in this way, hope you all enjoy the scenery and the hard work i put into my eagle project 4 years ago."

 

That is such a nice story, in itself, that it is fitting that he would be the first one there. Normally, I think the use of the three initials is overdone, but in this case, even that seems appropriate.

 

It would not bother me if he had gotten a tip that a cache that honored his work was likely to be published. In fact, I hope that he would have been told. Although it is certainly not necessary to be a premium member to find out about a new cache and sign a blank log (even as a premium member, I did not turn on cache notifications until I signed more than 100 such logs).

 

I agree with others that if my son was mostly interested in the Monkey's Fist, it seems likely that either the CO or the Scout who found them might be willing to teach me how to make one so that I could impress my kid with a nice gift. Its the scouting thing to do.

Edited by mulvaney
Link to comment

I think the unfair part that she is talking about is that they must have gotten the coords from the owner before it was published because they don't have notification.

 

 

Pretty sure most understood that. Again, how is this unfair?

 

Why do you give out the coordinates of your caches to friends before a cache is published as you have admitted to doing? I think that is a far more interesting question, and your answer might be illuminating to those of us who would not usually do that.

Link to comment

I think the unfair part that she is talking about is that they must have gotten the coords from the owner before it was published because they don't have notification.

 

 

Pretty sure most understood that. Again, how is this unfair?

 

Why do you give out the coordinates of your caches to friends before a cache is published as you have admitted to doing? I think that is a far more interesting question, and your answer might be illuminating to those of us who would not usually do that.

 

Why not? Caches are made to be found. What is the difference between getting the coords off the site or from me. Getting them from the CO is not uncommon. Remember, even Magellan did it with several caches prior to posting them on GC. As it turns out here, there was also more to the story, not that it should really impact it one way or another.

 

To be clear, I didn't admit it, I stated it. So far, no one has pointed out how it is unfair.

Link to comment

I do sympathize with the OP. Taking both FTF prizes might not have been unfair, but it certainly wasn't very nice.

Here's an idea: You and your son learn how to make an excellent monkey's fist. Attach it to a keyring with a travelbug dogtag. Then, when it gets stolen within the first month of it's release, your son will REALLY hate geocaching! (OK, sorry. Just trying to bring a little levity to the situation. :laughing: )

Link to comment

I think the unfair part that she is talking about is that they must have gotten the coords from the owner before it was published because they don't have notification.

 

 

Pretty sure most understood that. Again, how is this unfair?

 

Why do you give out the coordinates of your caches to friends before a cache is published as you have admitted to doing? I think that is a far more interesting question, and your answer might be illuminating to those of us who would not usually do that.

 

Why not? Caches are made to be found. What is the difference between getting the coords off the site or from me. Getting them from the CO is not uncommon. Remember, even Magellan did it with several caches prior to posting them on GC. As it turns out here, there was also more to the story, not that it should really impact it one way or another.

 

To be clear, I didn't admit it, I stated it. So far, no one has pointed out how it is unfair

 

Blah. I thought you might give a more convincing reply than basically because I can. Around here, giving coordinates out for an unpublished cache is uncommon.

Link to comment

Giving out the coords before publication is fine.

 

For that finder to then claim FTF when nobody else has the coords is... lots of things, none of them good. :unsure:

 

I have given people a head start on my puzzle caches. Many cachers around here do. I don't compete for FTF and I have no interest in trying to keep up with the imaginary rule book for an imaginary competition. If someone wants to make FTF into a competition and attach an arbitrary value to it, that's fine, but it's irrational to assume that everybody else is going to go along with it, and ridiculous to judge people who don't participate in your imaginary game.

 

If the cache is in place and in good condition, the cacher before you played fair.

Link to comment

I think the unfair part that she is talking about is that they must have gotten the coords from the owner before it was published because they don't have notification.

 

 

Pretty sure most understood that. Again, how is this unfair?

 

Why do you give out the coordinates of your caches to friends before a cache is published as you have admitted to doing? I think that is a far more interesting question, and your answer might be illuminating to those of us who would not usually do that.

 

Why not? Caches are made to be found. What is the difference between getting the coords off the site or from me. Getting them from the CO is not uncommon. Remember, even Magellan did it with several caches prior to posting them on GC. As it turns out here, there was also more to the story, not that it should really impact it one way or another.

 

To be clear, I didn't admit it, I stated it. So far, no one has pointed out how it is unfair

 

Blah. I thought you might give a more convincing reply than basically because I can. Around here, giving coordinates out for an unpublished cache is uncommon.

Look at it this way, then. GC.com is not the only listing site. Frequently, caches are listed on more than one site. There is simply no way to sync up the listing of caches between sites, so it is certainly feasible that a cache would pop up 'over there' before it shows up on GC.com. A cacher who plays on both sites would, therefore, have a jump on a cacher who only uses GC.com. He may, in fact, even find the cache prior to it's being actually listed on GC.com. He would be FTF.

 

One might also list all his cache info on his own website or facebook or twitter etc. Assuming that he updated his site at the time of cache submittal, any of his friends and followers would have a jump on the general GC.com population. There's nothing wrong with this.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...