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Dealing with black widow spider on cache (newbie)


JMMN
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You could just leave it, let it surprise some unwary geocacher like this one did me... Nah, on second thought KILL the little sucker!

 

phone005.jpg

 

Brown Recluse.

 

4 surgeries. 6 months to heal. Deep 5" scar across my back.

 

If I see a poisonous spider its time on this earth is done. B)

 

I spent a couple weeks in Iowa on a deployment with Southern Baptist Disaster Relief after their last big flood. Had time to do one geocache, a roadside guardrail micro. The spider dropped out of a tree limb above the cache and down the back of my shirt. Guess that's what I get for hunting guardrail micros. You've been warned!

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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I take it you don't like spiders?

 

Then you lot should probably be looking for a more (at home pastime) or stick to more suburban caches.

 

The fact is that hunting this kind of stuff in even suburban bush areas will attract the risk of encounters with Spiders n' Snakes, Lizards, and possibly even dangerous people. Remember 'Deliverance' ?

 

If you can't hack a spider, maybe look at Golf, Backgammon, Darts etc?

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I take it you don't like spiders?

 

Then you lot should probably be looking for a more (at home pastime) or stick to more suburban caches.

 

The fact is that hunting this kind of stuff in even suburban bush areas will attract the risk of encounters with Spiders n' Snakes, Lizards, and possibly even dangerous people. Remember 'Deliverance' ?

 

If you can't hack a spider, maybe look at Golf, Backgammon, Darts etc?

 

The OP is the cache owner in this case. They aren't complaining about finding a spider on a cache, they are worried about a spider that was found at thier cache.

 

To the OP: check on your cache and squash the thing. I'm kind of surprised the last finder didn't do it for you.

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You could just leave it, let it surprise some unwary geocacher like this one did me... Nah, on second thought KILL the little sucker!

 

Brown Recluse.

 

4 surgeries. 6 months to heal. Deep 5" scar across my back.

 

If I see a poisonous spider its time on this earth is done. B)

 

I spent a couple weeks in Iowa on a deployment with Southern Baptist Disaster Relief after their last big flood. Had time to do one geocache, a roadside guardrail micro. The spider dropped out of a tree limb above the cache and down the back of my shirt. Guess that's what I get for hunting guardrail micros. You've been warned!

 

A brown recluse in Iowa? No way... that'd be extremely rare if true.

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We're staunch vegetarians and wouldn't blame you for killing it.

I'd probably try to find some goofy looking but safe way to move her, but its probably not really worth the risk.

 

What does vegetarianism have to do with pest removal? Just curious. Your statement implied to me that vegetarianism somehow put you on a different level that allows you to look down on the meat eaters of the world.

 

"We're staunch vegetarians and wouldn't blame you for killing it."

 

I thought I knew my place in life and I never pictured vegetarians as being any better or worse than myself.

Edited by bflentje
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We're staunch vegetarians and wouldn't blame you for killing it.

I'd probably try to find some goofy looking but safe way to move her, but its probably not really worth the risk.

 

What does vegetarianism have to do with pest removal? Just curious.

I'd rather not get into it, because its a long side conversation.

I was trying to give my response some context.

I'll just say that as a crybaby animal rights type, I wouldn't blame him for killing this particular animal even if I wouldn't. When I but a box of toys in the woods, I wouldn't define the bugs on it as pests myself. They happen to be a huge part of why I'm out there... but since this one is dangerous to humans in it's current spot I can see the logic in just killing it.

I thought the subtext of the question had a "leave no trace" or "is this in the spirit of the hobby?" flavor and that the perspective of someone who would normally not kill the spider might be relevant.

Not trying to moralize or lecture or anything.

 

EDIT: I just saw your

""We're staunch vegetarians and wouldn't blame you for killing it."

 

I thought I knew my place in life and I never pictured vegetarians as being any better or worse than myself."

edit.

I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at. It feels like I'm being trolled, but maybe I misunderstand? I was just trying to give my answer some context.

If I asked a question about a cat and someone who hated cats or had 20 and maybe liked them too much answered, I would like that information up front.

Edited by d+n.shults
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Any suggestions? B) thx.
Mention spiders in your cache description. Include a photo and link to info on them. Don't tell me you expect that there's just one spider in the area. There are so many more nasty ways to be maimed or die in everyday activities, a little spider is nothing. If someone's specially vulnerable to that spider, they just need to avoid that spot (thus the info in the description).

 

I might even consider disabling or archiving the cache (that's just me). Reason: Finding a black widow spider on my cache container would be about the coolest thing ever, and I don't want someone to come along and squish it.

 

Or find a slightly different spot for the container, out in the open, hung from a branch, in sunlight, whatever might discourage that spider from nesting. But people will likely still poke around in other spots, while searching.

 

Or set up some praying mantis egg cases in the Spring. Either they'll help control the spider population, or the spiders will end up nice and fat and prolific there. Either way, it will be about the coolest thing ever.

Edited by kunarion
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Any suggestions? :anibad: thx.
Mention spiders in your cache description. Include a photo and link to info on them. Don't tell me you expect that there's just one spider in the area.

 

I might even consider disabling or archiving the cache (that's just me). Reason: Finding a black widow spider on my cache container would be about the coolest thing ever, and I don't want someone to come along and squish it.

 

Or set up some praying mantis egg cases in the Spring. Either they'll help control the spider population, or the spiders will end up nice and fat and prolific there. Either way, it will be about the coolest thing ever.

I was thinking that too!

For some reason, I haven't seen one in years. I assume they live in TX, but I haven't seen one since Missouri. We had a few in our chicken coop growing up and they never much bothered me or the hens. I don't think I have the same amount of fear for them as others. I mostly just try to respect them from afar.

 

Of course, this post will make for a nice addition to my nomination for the Darwin award when I'm killed by 20 black widows while geocaching next week B)

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A brown recluse in Iowa? No way... that'd be extremely rare if true.

Rare, but not unheard of:

 

The brown recluse spider,Loxosceles reculsa,is common outdoors and indoors in the southern and central United States. It is uncommon to extremely rare in the Upper Midwest. Only one specimen has been recorded in Minnesota (1953, Lake County). Only two specimens have been recorded in Wisconsin in the last 25 years. Brown recluse spiders have been reported in several widely scattered sites in southern Iowa since 1969. Specimens have been retrieved and confirmed from only twelve counties.
(source)

 

On the other hand, the Wikipedia entry claims that 80% of reported Brown Recluse bites may have been misdiagnosed.

 

As for Black Widows, while I doubt most of us would want to be bitten, I'll take that after a Brown Recluse any day:

 

This spider's bite is much feared because its venom is reported to be 15 times stronger than a rattlesnake's. In humans, bites produce muscle aches, nausea, and a paralysis of the diaphragm that can make breathing difficult; however, contrary to popular belief, most people who are bitten suffer no serious damage—let alone death. But bites can be fatal—usually to small children, the elderly, or the infirm. Fortunately, fatalities are fairly rare; the spiders are nonaggressive and bite only in self-defense, such as when someone accidentally sits on them.
(source)
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it's the swelling, tissue necrosis, and pain that makes brown recluse bites so bad. and someone who's been bitten will have a permanent reminder of the ordeal in a really gnarly scar (and possibly loss of extremities depending on bite location).

 

Black widows like it where they'll be undisturbed. if you don't want it there and don't want to kill it, you need to visit the site and do cache maintenance often to shoo the spiders away. I'd recommend a stick to swish out the web and make life difficult for the spiders. They'll leave eventually.

 

But if it was me, I'd smash it. I have no sympathy for venomous spiders. When I moved into my house, I had a small black widow problem. I smashed two, and now I haven't seen a single one where it shouldn't be in two years.

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We're staunch vegetarians and wouldn't blame you for killing it.

I'd probably try to find some goofy looking but safe way to move her, but its probably not really worth the risk.

 

What does vegetarianism have to do with pest removal? Just curious.

I'd rather not get into it, because its a long side conversation.

I was trying to give my response some context.

I'll just say that as a crybaby animal rights type, I wouldn't blame him for killing this particular animal even if I wouldn't. When I but a box of toys in the woods, I wouldn't define the bugs on it as pests myself. They happen to be a huge part of why I'm out there... but since this one is dangerous to humans in it's current spot I can see the logic in just killing it.

I thought the subtext of the question had a "leave no trace" or "is this in the spirit of the hobby?" flavor and that the perspective of someone who would normally not kill the spider might be relevant.

Not trying to moralize or lecture or anything.

 

EDIT: I just saw your

""We're staunch vegetarians and wouldn't blame you for killing it."

 

I thought I knew my place in life and I never pictured vegetarians as being any better or worse than myself."

edit.

I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at. It feels like I'm being trolled, but maybe I misunderstand? I was just trying to give my answer some context.

If I asked a question about a cat and someone who hated cats or had 20 and maybe liked them too much answered, I would like that information up front.

 

No, not trolling. Just making sure I knew where you were coming from. I suspect we don't share political views either.. B)

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You could just leave it, let it surprise some unwary geocacher like this one did me... Nah, on second thought KILL the little sucker!

 

Brown Recluse.

 

4 surgeries. 6 months to heal. Deep 5" scar across my back.

 

If I see a poisonous spider its time on this earth is done. B)

 

I spent a couple weeks in Iowa on a deployment with Southern Baptist Disaster Relief after their last big flood. Had time to do one geocache, a roadside guardrail micro. The spider dropped out of a tree limb above the cache and down the back of my shirt. Guess that's what I get for hunting guardrail micros. You've been warned!

 

A brown recluse in Iowa? No way... that'd be extremely rare if true.

I couldn't tell you for sure what it was. It felt like a minor sting. I reached back, squashed it and let it fall out the back of my shirt and thought no more of it. The next day it was swollen and I thought it odd that a bee sting would swell like that; it didn't have the sharp immediate sting like a bee has, and bee stings normally don't bother me, so I ignored it and went about my business.

 

By the time I got back to Birmingham three days after the bite it was very swollen, spreading and tender. I went to my doc and he said it was a brown recluse bite. I had seen brown recluse bites on my deployment to Biloxi MS after Katrina and this seemed comperable so I didn't question it.

 

The skin and tissue under it began to break down and swell, requiring three more debridement surgeries and the installation of an open drain which took months to heal in an otherwise healthy person.

 

Could it have been something else? Sure. Maybe it was a black widow :o Whatever it was it was a poisonous insect of some sort. I'm content to accept the doctor's diagnosis of brown Recluse but it really doesn't matter what it was...when it comes to poisonous insects my policy is kill 'em and ask questions later. :anibad:

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I guess in Iowa it is not impossible to find one. This from a UofM website..

 

The brown recluse spider,Loxosceles reculsa,is common outdoors and indoors in the southern and central United States. It is uncommon to extremely rare in the Upper Midwest. Only one specimen has been recorded in Minnesota (1953, Lake County). Only two specimens have been recorded in Wisconsin in the last 25 years. Brown recluse spiders have been reported in several widely scattered sites in southern Iowa since 1969. Specimens have been retrieved and confirmed from only twelve counties.

 

For the record, Lake county is as far north as you can get in MN. I wonder where that spider came from?

Edited by bflentje
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We're staunch vegetarians and wouldn't blame you for killing it.

I'd probably try to find some goofy looking but safe way to move her, but its probably not really worth the risk.

 

What does vegetarianism have to do with pest removal? Just curious.

I'd rather not get into it, because its a long side conversation.

I was trying to give my response some context.

I'll just say that as a crybaby animal rights type, I wouldn't blame him for killing this particular animal even if I wouldn't. When I but a box of toys in the woods, I wouldn't define the bugs on it as pests myself. They happen to be a huge part of why I'm out there... but since this one is dangerous to humans in it's current spot I can see the logic in just killing it.

I thought the subtext of the question had a "leave no trace" or "is this in the spirit of the hobby?" flavor and that the perspective of someone who would normally not kill the spider might be relevant.

Not trying to moralize or lecture or anything.

 

EDIT: I just saw your

""We're staunch vegetarians and wouldn't blame you for killing it."

 

I thought I knew my place in life and I never pictured vegetarians as being any better or worse than myself."

edit.

I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at. It feels like I'm being trolled, but maybe I misunderstand? I was just trying to give my answer some context.

If I asked a question about a cat and someone who hated cats or had 20 and maybe liked them too much answered, I would like that information up front.

 

No, not trolling. Just making sure I knew where you were coming from. I suspect we don't share political views either.. :anibad:

B)

A self-hating old-school ashamed Libertarian? prolly not.

We're a dying breed.

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We live in Illinois near Terre Haute, IN. We have killed 2, yes, two Brown Recluse spiders inside our house. So incredibly NOT COOL. We kill spiders- any and all- they are all fair game. When I or the kids find a spider on a cache (or in the house) we "shoot" first and ask questions later.

 

If it were my cache? I'd kill it immediately and still make a note on the cache page that one was killed there and for the finders to be very careful.

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For the record, Lake county is as far north as you can get in MN. I wonder where that spider came from?
I blame Canada.

 

LMAO yes we sent down some frozen spider egg sacks, we delivered them via dog sled to the MN border where they immediately thawed and went crawling southward... We had to hurry back to our igloos to enjoy some real beer and moose meat too B) hehehe :anibad:

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I ran out around 10:30 at night recently to fulfill the 10-10-10 cache challenge. When I located the cache it had a big black widow spider right over the cache. It was impossible to get the cache without disturbing the spider. I did what I usually do with a black widow spider and smashed the thing into a mess of goo. I freaking HATE those things!

 

Rattlesnakes I just avoid, remove the encouraging habitat, or something of that sort. Black Widow Spiders I CRUSH WITHOUT MERCY. Bwahahahahaahahahaahahaahahaha.................

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Borrow this guy's shoe.

 

280px-Khrushchev_shoe.jpg

 

Yes, the photo is faked. I don't think there are any photos of the actual incident, are there?

B) My high school history teacher did that (shoe banging) when discussing that particular speech. That and eating chalk. But not at the same time. The chalk-eating was caught by unwary students coming back from lunch early. :anibad:

A side note: Is it dead yet?

Edited by Coyote's Girl
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Borrow this guy's shoe.

 

280px-Khrushchev_shoe.jpg

 

Yes, the photo is faked. I don't think there are any photos of the actual incident, are there?

B) My high school history teacher did that (shoe banging) when discussing that particular speech. That and eating chalk. But not at the same time. The chalk-eating was caught by unwary students coming back from lunch early. :anibad:

A side note: Is it dead yet?

 

Rumor has it that the shoe was several sizes too big for his foot. It was a prop for a planned fit of rage.

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Okay, I'll bite (pun intended) and take what is probably an opposing view here.

 

You placed a cache in the spider's territory - she did not invade your territory. So why not simply move the cache and let the spider live out its existence or, move her and her egg sac? Just because it's not a species at risk is not justification for killing it (note, I am not saying the OP indicated that they were going to squish the spider, but many respondents have said that is what they would do). Remember, I'm referring to the spider being found in its natural location and not one that is found within one's residence.

 

Yes I know black widows and brown recluses are venomous and have been known to be harmful to humans (I am an entomologist by profession), but believe it or not, spiders are extremely beneficial predators of many different species of insect pests.

 

IMHO, I think the response by Harry Dolphin is by far the best. Include a photo of the spider as well and some information about her.

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Okay, I'll bite (pun intended) and take what is probably an opposing view here.

 

You placed a cache in the spider's territory - she did not invade your territory. So why not simply move the cache and let the spider live out its existence or, move her and her egg sac? Just because it's not a species at risk is not justification for killing it (note, I am not saying the OP indicated that they were going to squish the spider, but many respondents have said that is what they would do). Remember, I'm referring to the spider being found in its natural location and not one that is found within one's residence.

 

Yes I know black widows and brown recluses are venomous and have been known to be harmful to humans (I am an entomologist by profession), but believe it or not, spiders are extremely beneficial predators of many different species of insect pests.

 

IMHO, I think the response by Harry Dolphin is by far the best. Include a photo of the spider as well and some information about her.

 

Okay, I change my answer. Let Charlotte live.

 

Just out of curiosity, do wasps and hornets perform any useful biological function? I ask because I have a deep seated fear/hatred of them and never hesitate to obliterate them in a diabolical fashion. Bees I'm cool with- except carpenter bees as they are chewing holes in the house, but otherwise I've been known to pet a bee while it was gathering pollen.

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Okay, I'll bite (pun intended) and take what is probably an opposing view here.

 

You placed a cache in the spider's territory - she did not invade your territory. So why not simply move the cache and let the spider live out its existence or, move her and her egg sac? Just because it's not a species at risk is not justification for killing it (note, I am not saying the OP indicated that they were going to squish the spider, but many respondents have said that is what they would do). Remember, I'm referring to the spider being found in its natural location and not one that is found within one's residence.

 

Yes I know black widows and brown recluses are venomous and have been known to be harmful to humans (I am an entomologist by profession), but believe it or not, spiders are extremely beneficial predators of many different species of insect pests.

 

IMHO, I think the response by Harry Dolphin is by far the best. Include a photo of the spider as well and some information about her.

 

WAY OFF TOPIC here but I contend that humans are God's creatures too and that the spider has infringed on our territory and should therefore move.

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Okay, I'll bite (pun intended) and take what is probably an opposing view here.

 

You placed a cache in the spider's territory - she did not invade your territory. So why not simply move the cache and let the spider live out its existence or, move her and her egg sac? Just because it's not a species at risk is not justification for killing it (note, I am not saying the OP indicated that they were going to squish the spider, but many respondents have said that is what they would do). Remember, I'm referring to the spider being found in its natural location and not one that is found within one's residence.

 

Yes I know black widows and brown recluses are venomous and have been known to be harmful to humans (I am an entomologist by profession), but believe it or not, spiders are extremely beneficial predators of many different species of insect pests.

 

IMHO, I think the response by Harry Dolphin is by far the best. Include a photo of the spider as well and some information about her.

 

Okay, I change my answer. Let Charlotte live.

 

Just out of curiosity, do wasps and hornets perform any useful biological function? I ask because I have a deep seated fear/hatred of them and never hesitate to obliterate them in a diabolical fashion. Bees I'm cool with- except carpenter bees as they are chewing holes in the house, but otherwise I've been known to pet a bee while it was gathering pollen.

Yes, many wasps and hornets prey on flies or other pesty insects, and most are quite calm, especially away from their nests.

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