Poll.. Izzy, or Izzy Not?

[foxtrot_xray]

Okay, thought I'd get your thoughts on this one:

774 USGS, Raw Datasheet

 

Reading over the description, seems pretty straight-forward, right? Well, I found adisk:

And so did other loggers, including someone who submitted to NGS.

 

I was up there working on the line today, and figured I would log it. However, when I saw the disk, I had second thoughts. All the measurements line up, the location of the disk lines up, and even the stamping on the disk verifies with the datasheet. However, once I looked at the disk, I had second thoughts:

 

First, the disk is still silver in color. (Aluminum?) All the other disks on the line (that I've recovered) were older bronze-type disks (I think), that have turned green with age. These were set in 1942 like this datasheet says it is.

Second, the disk has 1981 or 1961 stamped on it. (Believe it's 1961.).

Third, the disk is a US Dept. Of Interior disk, *NOT* USGS.

 

So, was the disk replaced by the DI? Or is the datasheet in error? Again, all measurements line up darn exact, too.

 

--Me.

[+secondgunman]

My two cents.......and being fairly new my thoughts may not even be worth that much.

 

I'm thinking that's a replacement disk in the original location. The dates don't line up, the metal types are different, and (most significantly in my mind) it's a DoI disk when I think it should be a USGS disk. Understand that when I say the "orginal location" I mean that only as a rough approximation and I'm not saying that it was placed in the exact same place down to the fraction of a millimeter.

 

On a side note, I found a similar case here. FH0970 is supposed to be a mark placed by CGS in 1940. The marker at that location was placed by the Army Corps of Engineers in 1960. Same location, wrong disk.

[holograph]

Third, the disk is a US Dept. Of Interior disk, *NOT* USGS.

 

The Department of Interior's Geological Survey *is* the USGS. Maybe they reset their own disk, for some reason. It is weird, though.

[TillaMurphs]

Possibly the key to positively concluding that this is not Izzy is to pinpoint when these type of disks (with “US DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR” at the top) were first produced. If it was after 1942 (and it sure looks like it was) then it can’t be the right mark.

 

George’s excellent “Bottles, Pots, and Pans: Marking the Surveys of the U.S. Coast & Geodetic Survey and NOAA” paper does not have any mention of a disk like you have shown. Perhaps there is another reference that could be used to find the birth date of these types of disks.

 

Ruling this out on the date stamping alone is probably not safe, since someone could have come back and added a date years after the original monumentation (I have seen that before).

 

I lean towards secondgunman’s postulate of a replacement disk in the original location.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

How many steps are required before they would use the phrase "Top Door Step"? I can only see 1 step in the pictures on the benchmark page.

 

John

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

I also have questions....

 

'Top DOOR step' not the 'Porch' step. Are there some steps under the porch at the door? There might not have been a porch when the mark was placed.

 

Also, is that the original door or was a new one added sometime after the mark was placed. Off to the left of that door shown in the one picture, it looks to have possibly been a door.

 

As we all know....things change.

 

Shirley~

Edited October 24, 2010 by 2oldfarts (the rockhounders)

[foxtrot_xray]

I can answer some other questions and such, for more thought..

'Top DOOR step' not the 'Porch' step. Are there some steps under the porch at the door? There might not have been a porch when the mark was placed.

Also, is that the original door or was a new one added sometime after the mark was placed. Off to the left of that door shown in the one picture, it looks to have possibly been a door.

As we all know....things change.

Unknown answer to both of those. However, the measurement from the centerline of the tracks match the location of the disk. (I got 31.5 feet, the datasheet says 31 feet.) The porch is at least 4 feet wide, with would put the first 'door step' at about 35 feet.

\How many steps are required before they would use the phrase "Top Door Step"? I can only see 1 step in the pictures on the benchmark page.

There are two steps total (four levels - the sidewalk level, step #1, step #2, then the porch step).

The Department of Interior's Geological Survey *is* the USGS. Maybe they reset their own disk, for some reason. It is weird, though.

Good point - however at least around Georgia (my old home) when I've come across DoI disks, I've seen the datasheets list them as DoI, not necessarily USGS. (So I consider them 'different' in this context. However, it does not mean someone else - whomever transcribed data into the electronic format - also didn't consider them the same.

 

To add to the 'confusion', if it is a USGS disk, USGS maps have an 'X' marked 'BM 744' locates on the SOUTH side of the track, between the road and the track.

 

I can also say that the track itself hasn't been moved due to maintenance - all movement's been due to settling and/or soil erosion. Due to a camera malfunction, all I have is the picture I posted. The other shots of the house and area weren't on the SD card.

 

I'll send Dave Doyle an email and see if he can pull anything up from the paper archives in relation to this.

 

--Mike.

[southpawaz]

Here's a similar USGS disk, monumented in 1966 (ES1162):

 

I think my vote is for reset in place.

[mloser]

As one of the previous "finders" of this disk, I can see your point! I recall the find, but not in any detail. I am pretty sure gnbrotz and I didn't measure anything, since it was a house. I don't think there was nobody home so we probably just moseyed up to the step, saw a disk and claimed it. Neither of us looked at the date on it (I am going to give the excuse that I was new then!).

 

Based on the information you provided I have changed my log to Not Found.

[foxtrot_xray]

As one of the previous "finders" of this disk, I can see your point! I recall the find, but not in any detail. I am pretty sure gnbrotz and I didn't measure anything, since it was a house. I don't think there was nobody home so we probably just moseyed up to the step, saw a disk and claimed it. Neither of us looked at the date on it (I am going to give the excuse that I was new then!).

 

Based on the information you provided I have changed my log to Not Found.

Don't take it personally. I HAD the datasheet, but didn't pay attention to it until I got home. The current residents work on the local railroad, so I had the luxury of doing some measuring and such.

 

(Funny - his wife was home, I hadn't met her yet, and saw me out there at the disk. She came out saying, "Don't ruin it! It's illegal!". I introduced myself and commented how impressed I was that she knew what it was and that it shouldn't be messed with. )

[mloser]

I don't take it personally. I blame it on being inexperienced. If it happened now I don't know what I would blame it on though.

I think we knocked at the door and nobody answered so we just looked at the mark and continued our quest without much measuring. We may have measured from the rail quickly. I didn't post a pic so I am not sure we took the time to get one.

 

Are you living in the York area now? Or just working with the M&P for a bit?

[foxtrot_xray]

I think we knocked at the door and nobody answered so we just looked at the mark and continued our quest without much measuring. We may have measured from the rail quickly. I didn't post a pic so I am not sure we took the time to get one.

 

Are you living in the York area now? Or just working with the M&P for a bit?

The folks bought the house in 2005 or 2006 I believe - which is why I'm not sure about the doorstep under the porch - they didn't know either, having not had the house before the porch may have been added.

 

I'm in Frederick, MD now - 'bout 3 hours from you it appears. I work for the group that handles the Walkersville Southern in Frederick, and do work out there on the Stewartstown line and Northern Central there, among others. This was my first time out that way, so had to make the best of it. (That means finding at LEAST one mark on the line..!)

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

In the image right there is a hole approx. .5 that looks like where an old disc was set.

The one with the leaf in it.

[TillaMurphs]

In the image right there is a hole approx. .5 that looks like where an old disc was set.

The one with the leaf in it.

 

Oooooo. All of us looked at the photo and missed that. Good thought.

 

Just to confirm; you are talking about the dark roundish spot with a leaf just touching one edge?

 

foxtrot_xray, if there would have been an actual hole in the concrete would you have noticed it?

[foxtrot_xray]

In the image right there is a hole approx. .5 that looks like where an old disc was set.

The one with the leaf in it.

 

Oooooo. All of us looked at the photo and missed that. Good thought.

 

Just to confirm; you are talking about the dark roundish spot with a leaf just touching one edge?

 

foxtrot_xray, if there would have been an actual hole in the concrete would you have noticed it?

 

I WANT to say that I would have noticed it. However, I'm so spacy at time that I'm probably wrong. When I head back that way I'll check. If that's the case, then mystery solved. I checked the other pictures, and noone else got a shot with that area visible either.