Police interception

[+Team GeoCan]

Location: California, United States

iHaveC4 found Tower of Power TB stop (Traditional Cache) at 10/22/2010

 

Log Date: 10/22/2010

So where do I start. Passed a police car on the way to this cache..didn’t think much of it until I found the cache and I was sitting in my car signing the log when I looked in my rear view mirror. Great!! sure enough...police car parks right behind me and tells me to stay in the car. Of course...now comes the long winded geocache explanation..but he wasn't buying it. Second police car pulls up and now they have me on the hood of the police car examining the contents of the cache container...COPS episode?? And yes.. they did ask if I had C4. haha. In the end... they found geocaching quite interesting and I may have recruited 2 new members to the geocaching community. SL but they didn't. TFTC!! and the experience.

 

Visit this log entry at the below address:

http://coord.info/GL4M0H2T

 

Visit Tower of Power TB stop

http://coord.info/GC1AJR3

 

Just the other day a geocache was blown up by the bomb squad, because it "appeared" to be a pipe bomb.

 

Our Local Police are actively looking for cache placers to question them.

[GOF and Bacall]

Nothing new here. It happens. I once had six cops with drawn guns question me. The concerned neighbors who called them said he thought I was carrying a gun. Nope, just gps and a flashlight.

 

The cache that was blown up, was it the one next to the school? Bad idea as cache placements go.

[+Team GeoCan]

The above cache is my placement. It is an 2x3x8 inch tin box with a magnet, attached to a metal angle iron power tower.

 

The issue is that it is magnetically attached, paint matches the Tower, and the cacher who got jacked up uses the "handle" "I got C4."

 

First I got C4 is not a good user name, it could get you shot or otherwise inconvenienced.

 

If he had geocaching literature handy the PD would have believed him sooner.

 

Perhaps I should pull the cache, now that the PD is looking at it, if it is still there that is.

 

San ernardino County sheriff is "looking" for the Geocacher last week who placed a tube object in a tree, near a school. They blew that geocache up They want to arrest him.

 

[GOF and Bacall]

What do they want to arrest him for?

[+Pax42]

Ever since the Lost & Found Story thing came out, I wonder a little about these kinds of logs.

[+Team GeoCan]

 

The cache that was blown up, was it the one next to the school? Bad idea as cache placements go.

 

Yes, however around here you are never more than two blocks from a school.

 

All the schools are placed on a grid pattern up and down Eucalyptus ave and east and west on Etiwanda/Miller street.

 

Lots of schools.

[+avionicsemt]

I live down on the border of Mexico and am questioned by border patrol all the time. When I’m questioned, I always ask them if they have heard of Geocaching. With a puzzled look on their face they always say yes and then drive off. I am sure my vehicle is on a government watch list somewhere.

[+Chrysalides]

I am sure my vehicle is on a government watch list somewhere.

Don't be silly. Of course not. Oh, your rear right tire might need a little more air, and it would be a good idea to check the brakes when you bring the car in for the oil change next month. If you see a little device stuck to the bottom of your car, it's to.. erm... improve fuel efficiency, that's right.

 

[Andronicus]

I had the police helicopter following me to GZ. Then a cop car pulled up, and the cop jumps out with his hand on his gun. In the end, they told me to go home (there was allegedly a developing situation) and I DNFed the cache.

[+JohnnyVegas]

I have been questioned by police twice while caching, Both times late at night while trying for FTF 11PM and 2AM. Both times were many years ago. On the first one I was signing the log while listening to my police scanner when I heared the officer say, "I am going to light up the car" and then it got really bright in my car. After explaning the need to find a cache at 11PM that was 20 miles from home she said " That story is to stupid not to be true"

On the second one I was on my hands and knees in the mud durring a rain storm trying for another FTF when I saw two feet in front of me. Again I explained geocaching and my need for a FTF in the rain and mud at 2AM (this time I was only two miles from home) This cop just said "You guys are crazy" and drove off.

[knowschad]

The above cache is my placement. It is an 2x3x8 inch tin box with a magnet, attached to a metal angle iron power tower.

 

The issue is that it is magnetically attached, paint matches the Tower, and the cacher who got jacked up uses the "handle" "I got C4."

 

First I got C4 is not a good user name, it could get you shot or otherwise inconvenienced.

 

If he had geocaching literature handy the PD would have believed him sooner.

 

Perhaps I should pull the cache, now that the PD is looking at it, if it is still there that is.

 

San ernardino County sheriff is "looking" for the Geocacher last week who placed a tube object in a tree, near a school. They blew that geocache up They want to arrest him.

 

How did they (the police) get his caching name?

 

If that is a working power tower and it is what I think it is, it would probably be archived if the reviewer was made aware of it. That would probably be considered a potential terrorist target.

[+dakboy]

Ever since the Lost & Found Story thing came out, I wonder a little about these kinds of logs.

A little?

 

I'm calling shenanigans on the story. Maybe he was questioned by police, but put on the hood of his car? And as knowschad pointed out, how did they get his handle?

[+Team Biker Cache]

I actually found out that many cachers were being watched while trying to find some of my more difficult caches in a small town close to us. I made some flyers about geocaching and a list of all caches in the town and where they were located (both address and GPS coords) and took it to the city police headquarters. I explained it to them and they were shocked to find the little town had so many. I don't know if it helped but I am hoping that if you are ever in Floydada Texas you won't have problems and will be able to cache in peace.......Happy Hunting!

[+John in Valley Forge]

Ever since the Lost & Found Story thing came out, I wonder a little about these kinds of logs.

A little?

 

I'm calling shenanigans on the story. Maybe he was questioned by police, but put on the hood of his car? And as knowschad pointed out, how did they get his handle?

 

I guess it would have been in the log. If it was just a little log sheet, then that would likely be the only thing written by the OP (as opposed to a long description of the hike through the woods and stuff like that). A long list of strange words and the last entry would say IgotC4. Maybe a TNLNSL note.

Edited October 23, 2010 by John in Valley Forge

[+John in Valley Forge]

I actually found out that many cachers were being watched while trying to find some of my more difficult caches in a small town close to us. I made some flyers about geocaching and a list of all caches in the town and where they were located (both address and GPS coords) and took it to the city police headquarters. I explained it to them and they were shocked to find the little town had so many. I don't know if it helped but I am hoping that if you are ever in Floydada Texas you won't have problems and will be able to cache in peace.......Happy Hunting!

 

That's really a good idea, educating them on what is going on. It could go a long way to easing concerns. In my town the Parks department is aware of caching, as there is one placed with their permission by the town hall and police station. At one point I think the library had a couple GPSr units to lend out for hunting it. Though they probably know about that one (a multi stage that all around the adjacent park) but they might not know about others.

[+narcissa]

Getting stopped by a cop is one of geocaching's rites of passage.

[+tonyandamanda]

It certainly is a rite of passage. The first night we want out we were questioned by a cop. The cache was between a bank & gas station. He seem interested about Geocaching and asked what the website was again before leaving. Maybe we'll run in to him again but while he's looking for a cache himself.

[+GeoGeeBee]

Getting stopped by a cop is one of geocaching's rites of passage.

 

I must be doing it wrong. I've never been approached by a cop while caching. Once by a security guard in a parking deck, but never by a cop.

[+Nicodemus3]

I've never had a run in with the law, but have been queried by locals a few times. Just last week the bomb squad was called in when someone spotted a cache in a evergreen in a rural cemetery here in NW AR...yep, tree in a cemetery, prime target for a terrorist.

[+FireRef]

I was approached by a DCNR (Park Police) officer who saw me and a friend on the side of the road looking around, and my car was down about a half block away, off the road but with the flashers on. I walked back to the car he was in when he pulled up, and said hi, We're Geocaching. He hesitated about a half second, and said, "Ok, have fun - just thought maybe you needed help or something" - I said "Nope, but thanks!". Very positive experience. And this is a good thing, considering how many caches are in this area, and how many cachers will be in this area next summer because of Geowoodstock.

[+wimseyguy]

If getting stopped and questions is merely a rite of passage, what is it when the LEO stops the patrol, radios in that they are busy, and helps find and retrieve the cache?

 

A Jacksonville Sheriff's car pulled up with lights on to find out what these 8 suspicious people were doing.

He had heard of geocaching, got out of his car to see and ended up helping us find the cache! He even signed the log for the sheriff's department. What a great thing geocaching is!

 

Found with Team CHB. Had a great time in Jacksonville for GW3 and lots of caching. Thanks!

 

(using one of my teammates logs as he wrote a better one than me for this cache)

 

PS since fireref mentions this-it would be a very very good thing for the GW9 organizers to send a bulletin out to the local LEO agencies before the big event.

[jholly]

Several times I cached in full view of the LEO. They sat there doing their paperwork or eating their donuts and drove off. Never even so much as a hi. I've had a lot more interaction with the county road workers, now those are the ones you need to watch.

[+narcissa]

Getting stopped by a cop is one of geocaching's rites of passage.

 

I must be doing it wrong. I've never been approached by a cop while caching. Once by a security guard in a parking deck, but never by a cop.

 

That still counts.

[+Coldgears]

Never a police. But there is a geocache hidden at the base( in a pine)of a tower/american flag. (its looks like an american flag but it emits something. I was told, "you need to wear a hardhat to go under the crane". Like WTH?Is the crane gonna fall apart on me? If that's the case the guy in it should be the one who they should be worried for.

[+Team GeoCan]

Update: The Cache is ulled. As I Got C4 reported the Police examined the contents. I was contacted to remove the cache because it was found to contain A ROUND OF AMMUNITION.I will now have to disable the ca che which had been there nearly 3 years.

 

What idiot puts ammunition in a geocache?

[+baloo&bd]

We wear our stops as a badge of honor and post the shoulder patch of the officers who stop us on our FB page here.

 

Having said that, in the stops with our cache group or individually, we have only had one bad experience and even that was just an officer cranked up on Krispy Kremes with a short cop attitude that hollered at us for parking in a parking space (not a mis-type.).

[Mr.Yuck]

I was detained by 6 squad cars from the Clark, New Jersey PD in 2004. It happens. That was probably because a robbery suspect in the neighborhood tried to say he was with me though (I just happened to be there at the same time, and had out of State plates).

 

So this guy's name is "I got C4"? That's probably a bad idea. Especially if he tells them, "it's OK, look me up on Geocaching.com; my username is I got C4"

[knowschad]

I was detained by 6 squad cars from the Clark, New Jersey PD in 2004. It happens. That was probably because a robbery suspect in the neighborhood tried to say he was with me though (I just happened to be there at the same time, and had out of State plates).

 

So this guy's name is "I got C4"? That's probably a bad idea. Especially if he tells them, "it's OK, look me up on Geocaching.com; my username is I got C4"

This guy might have problems, too!

And this one

Another

This guy should keep his caching name to himself

This guy was only around for one day, thank God

[+Chrysalides]

I was detained by 6 squad cars from the Clark, New Jersey PD in 2004.

Looking at your avatar, I'm pretty sure it is Southern California, 1994 and Las Vegas, 2007.

[+E = Mc2]

I've been approached several times by officers while Geocaching. Most in my area know about the game and just keep on trucking. One day, however, I was searching for a cache when the county sheriff's deputy pulled up and fired up the strobes. I talked to him for a couple of minutes and then he pulled his car off the road and helped me look for it.

 

Our area reviewer co-hosted an event recently with the Louisville Metro Police Bomb Squad which was eye-opening, to say the least. They have blown up several caches in the area and the official attitude was trending towards "Why can't these folks find something else to do?". Every bomb squad call out costs money, and some of them cost lots of money. The $250,000 robot gets wear and tear and for what? Blowing up a loc-n-loc filled with golf balls and junk in a public park?

 

To the bomb squad, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. A PVC pipe cache looks exactly like a pipe bomb. An ammo can leaning against a tree with no visible label is a bomb. <-- That's a period.

[+scaramedic]

The above cache is my placement. It is an 2x3x8 inch tin box with a magnet, attached to a metal angle iron power tower.

 

Would this 'power tower' by chance be feeding the rather large hospital across the street? Power lines are considered a 'soft' target for terrorism: domestic, global, or just a psych pt. If the satellite image is current the cache is out in the middle of an empty field. Someone walking around a power pole in the middle of nothing would capture my attention also.

 

If they searched the cache than that is probably where they got the name of Got C4.

 

Add it all up I can see why someone had a nice chat with PD.

[+Sithlock Holmes]

This is a nice reminder that I should be printing up some brochures.

 

I've yet to be stopped by the cops but I know it will happen eventually - my appearance gets me easily profiled. I should be prepared with literature to make it go smoother when it does.

[knowschad]

To the bomb squad, if it looks like a duck (to a bomb squad) and quacks like a duck (to a bomb squad), it's a duck (to a bomb squad). A PVC pipe cache looks exactly like a pipe bomb (to a bomb squad). An ammo can leaning against a tree with no visible label is a bomb (to a bomb squad). <-- That's a period.

You are correct, of course, and the bolded additions to your post are all that really matters in that situation, I submit that to a geocacher, those same "ducks" look just like a geocache. We've even seen here where an old microwave oven in the woods, "plugged into" a wall socket attached to a dead tree looked like one of those ducks to a bomb squad and was blown up.

[+genegene]

I was looking for a BM and had Local and State Police show up and the SWAT team on its way.

 

I had no idea that the building that had the BM on it was entirely a bank. I thought there were two businesses in it one on one side, and the other side had something else on it.

The week before a bank had a hold up about 10 miles away.

 

I parked far away in the parking lot and didn't even go near the door.

[+hukilaulau]

I've had several encounters with LEO's in several different states. They have always been courteous and friendly, most often just checking if I was OK. Twice I have gotten myself and my truck locked behind gates that were open when I drove in and locked when I tried to get out. Both times I had to call 911 after not being able to get help any other way. Both times the dispatchers and the cops who eventually showed up and figured out who to call were friendly and never even asked what I was doing. (Once it was a town park that had a different definition of "dusk" than I did. The other time it was private property that I thought was a county park access.)

[+scaramedic]

I was looking for a BM and had Local and State Police show up and the SWAT team on its way.

 

I had no idea that the building that had the BM on it was entirely a bank. I thought there were two businesses in it one on one side, and the other side had something else on it.

The week before a bank had a hold up about 10 miles away.

 

I parked far away in the parking lot and didn't even go near the door.

 

Ummmmm, yeah. I'm thinking your definition of BM is different than mine, at least I hope. So at the risk of sounding stupid what is a BM?

 

Also that kind of response sounds kind of heavy handed for a bank. I would say there is something more sensitive in there. That 'something else' could be a protest favorite like an animal lab or something federal like the ATF. Something in there is important and they are looking out for it. I know, it's the aliens from Roswell,

[Mr.Yuck]

I was detained by 6 squad cars from the Clark, New Jersey PD in 2004.

Looking at your avatar, I'm pretty sure it is Southern California, 1994 and Las Vegas, 2007.

 

I received a tip that the real killer, whom I've been looking for for the last 16 years (well, not so much the last two years) was kicking it in Clark, N.J.; I didn't find him. I don't like to talk about those other two incidents. You don't want to make me mad there, Mr. Calvin holding an ammo box guy.

[+Team GeoCan]

What do they want to arrest him for?

 

Don;t know, but that is what the Officer on the TV news was saying.

[+GeePa]

This guy might have problems, too!

And this one

Another

This guy should keep his caching name to himself

This guy was only around for one day, thank God

I am just glad it wasn't this guy

[+sseegars]

Set the scene: 3:00 a.m. A small city in N.C.

 

Local public Government building. Newly built. No sign.

 

We signed the log and went back to the car. A police car passed while we were there and we waved and he waved.

We got back to the car and as I reached for the key to start the car no less than four patrol cars come in with lights on.

 

Officer 1: What are you doing? (Hand on gun.)

Me: Ever heard of geocaching? (Explanation.)

Officer 1: No.

Officer 2: Yep. One of our officers plays that game. (Hand off gun.)

Officer 1: Do you know where you are?

Me: (Name of city) N.C.

Officer 1: No exactly. This is city hall.

Me: Sorry, we didn't know. There is no sign.

Officer 2: Well it was just built.

Officer 1: I think you boys are finished for the night.

Officer 2: Yeah.

Me: Well, I guess we can go over to Waffle House and eat and then head home.

Officer 1: No I think you had better head on back to S.C.

Me: Are you telling me to leave town?

Officer 1: Exactly.

 

We actually were told to leave town. He followed us to the city limits. We cached some more that night after that town but we were pretty nervous there for a bit.

[Clan Riffster]

Our Local Police are actively looking for cache placers to question them.

Why do I hear the theme song to "Twilight Zone" playing in my head?

Could it be the paranoia level has risen considerably in the forums recently?

 

First I got C4 is not a good user name, it could get you shot

What?... Uh... The cops in California shoot people based on their nicknames now?

Surely, this isn't just more paranoia...

 

They want to arrest him.

Interesting. I've reviewed California state law, and I don't see anything in there claiming that sticking a piece of plastic in a tree is a crime.

Perhaps you've got a more recent edition of the statutes than I do?

 

A PVC pipe cache looks exactly like a pipe bomb.

Only to those who receive their EOD training by watching too many episodes of CSI.

PVC is actually a terrible choice for an improvised munition, because it tends to split before the contents reach enough pressure to turn the plastic into effective shrapnel. What you end up with is something that makes a loud "BOOM" and not much else, especially if the builders are using something with a slow burn rate such as black powder. When you fill PVC with something with a fast burn rate, such as any number of brands of plastique, the PVC is vaporized in the explosion, again, leaving virtually no shrapnel. The folks who build pipe bombs use thick wall metal pipes, (not PVC), because metal pipes allow for the build up of pressure, and the body of the pipe provides shrapnel. When you add in the lack of a fuse, or other detonation methods, PVC pipe really looks nothing like a pipe bomb.

 

Don;t know, but that is what the Officer on the TV news was saying.

Don't confuse noise heard from a talking head, (even one wearing a law enforcement uniform), with reality.

The real problem came from how the call was handled at the initial responder level, and had little to do with the cacher.

Consider this sequence of events:

 

1 ) BillyBob hangs a PVC pipe cache in a tree, near a school.

(While perfectly legal in California, probably a bad idea, as far as the guidelines go)

 

2 ) Paranoid civilian sees the pipe and dials 911 in a panic.

 

3 ) Initial responder shows up to evaluate the situation.

(This is where blown up geocaches generally meet their doom)

 

4 ) Cop is pretty clueless in threat assessment and forwards his finding up his chain of command.

 

5 ) Supervisor, (equally clueless), calls EOD and directs the area to be cordoned off.

 

6 ) Bomb Squad folks get called in, (usually off duty), and in a couple hours they show up.

 

7 ) Bomb squad does what they do best. The cache goes "Boom".

 

8 ) The media report the fact that hundreds of dollars were wasted by the agency who blew up a game piece.

 

9 ) The agency's talking heads make lots of noise about arresting the culprit.

[+webscouter.]

I just wanted to make an observation.

 

The cacher was not "Jacked up" he was questioned or maybe wanted for questioning.

 

Around here I am very lucky because the Kansas reviewer is a LEO.

 

Please don't exaggerate the situation by using terms such as jacked up.

[GOF and Bacall]

(E = Mc2 @ Oct 24 2010, 02:50 AM) *

A PVC pipe cache looks exactly like a pipe bomb.

 

Only to those who receive their EOD training by watching too many episodes of CSI.

PVC is actually a terrible choice for an improvised munition, because it tends to split before the contents reach enough pressure to turn the plastic into effective shrapnel. What you end up with is something that makes a loud "BOOM" and not much else, especially if the builders are using something with a slow burn rate such as black powder. When you fill PVC with something with a fast burn rate, such as any number of brands of plastique, the PVC is vaporized in the explosion, again, leaving virtually no shrapnel. The folks who build pipe bombs use thick wall metal pipes, (not PVC), because metal pipes allow for the build up of pressure, and the body of the pipe provides shrapnel. When you add in the lack of a fuse, or other detonation methods, PVC pipe really looks nothing like a pipe bomb.

 

This is a common misconception that is often repeated here in the forums. Do you really think these folks will believe you? I hope so, but doubt it.

[+Chuy!]

 

A PVC pipe cache looks exactly like a pipe bomb.

Only to those who receive their EOD training by watching too many episodes of CSI.

PVC is actually a terrible choice for an improvised munition, because it tends to split before the contents reach enough pressure to turn the plastic into effective shrapnel. What you end up with is something that makes a loud "BOOM" and not much else, especially if the builders are using something with a slow burn rate such as black powder. When you fill PVC with something with a fast burn rate, such as any number of brands of plastique, the PVC is vaporized in the explosion, again, leaving virtually no shrapnel. The folks who build pipe bombs use thick wall metal pipes, (not PVC), because metal pipes allow for the build up of pressure, and the body of the pipe provides shrapnel. When you add in the lack of a fuse, or other detonation methods, PVC pipe really looks nothing like a pipe bomb.

When a pipe is seen attached or sitting next to a building, or utility box, or even a guardrail, it can be very difficult to distinguish between a PVC or metal pipe. For the general public, the safe thing to do is err on the side of caution and call the PD.

[Clan Riffster]

For the general public, the safe thing to do is err on the side of caution and call the PD.

I'm perfectly OK with folks calling us when they see something suspicious. It's part of what we get paid for.

Here's where I see a problem: When I respond to a suspicious object, (happens at a minimum of once a week, and I've been doing this since '82), I evaluate the object, ensuring the safety of others. Out of the thousands and thousands of suspicious objects I've evaluated, I sent a grand total of one up the chain of command.

 

Anyone who has worked in law enforcement for more than 15 seconds should be able to tell the difference between PVC and metal, just as a plumber or pipe fitter should. I can accept Joe Civilian being clueless about the many blatant differences between the two, but I expect better from my fellow LEOs. Calling the bomb squad is something the first responder's supervisor would have done, not the civilian. I can't place any blame on the civilian. I can place blame on whoever it was that decided EOD was necessary. I can also place blame on whoever decided, after that phenomenal screw up, to try arresting the cacher.

 

All the cacher did was use poor judgement in placing the cache.

 

The law enforcement agency is the one who decided to involve unnecessary resources.

[+E = Mc2]

This is a common misconception that is often repeated here in the forums. Do you really think these folks will believe you? I hope so, but doubt it.

 

Umm... Exactly what is a common misconception repated here in the forums? The officer who was hosting the event seemed to think that some folks really do make pipe bombs out of PVC pipe. He's been on the EOD team for some time, and is an instructor. Should I tell him he's wrong?

[+E = Mc2]

To the bomb squad, if it looks like a duck (to a bomb squad) and quacks like a duck (to a bomb squad), it's a duck (to a bomb squad). A PVC pipe cache looks exactly like a pipe bomb (to a bomb squad). An ammo can leaning against a tree with no visible label is a bomb (to a bomb squad). <-- That's a period.

You are correct, of course, and the bolded additions to your post are all that really matters in that situation, I submit that to a geocacher, those same "ducks" look just like a geocache. We've even seen here where an old microwave oven in the woods, "plugged into" a wall socket attached to a dead tree looked like one of those ducks to a bomb squad and was blown up.

Exactly, and thanks for making that clear to others for me.

[+SunbeamBatteries]

wow, never thought of that, I've hidden a cache in what could be considered a pipe bomb. But they cant blow it up as I have the permission from the business owner as its placed inside their flag holder outdoors.

[GOF and Bacall]

wow, never thought of that, I've hidden a cache in what could be considered a pipe bomb. But they cant blow it up as I have the permission from the business owner as its placed inside their flag holder outdoors.

 

Don't bet on that.

[Mr.Yuck]

wow, never thought of that, I've hidden a cache in what could be considered a pipe bomb. But they cant blow it up as I have the permission from the business owner as its placed inside their flag holder outdoors.

 

Don't bet on that.

 

Exactly. I can think of 3 detonations I've heard about in these forums of caches placed with permission. Not everyone knows about the cache. As a matter of fact, just yesterday I stopped for a multi placed with permission at a Fruit/Vegetable stand. The teenaged girl working there looked at me like I was from Pluto when I told her I was there for the Geocache. I could tell I made her uncomfortable, and I beat feet right out of there. All the while expecting to get pulled over by a squad car.