Cache only available 5 months of the year

[+L0ne.R]

A CO plants a cache in a bog which is only dry from June to mid October (if it's a dry year), the CO has decided to disable it from mid-Oct to late Spring (which around here is late May/early June). Is it reasonable for a cache to be disabled for 7 months each year? The guidelines say:

You may temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to hunt for it until you have a chance to fix the problem. This feature is to allow you a reasonable time – normally a few weeks – in which to arrange a visit to your cache. In the event that a cache is not being properly maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an extended period of time, we may archive the listing.

 

What are your thoughts? Would you say the above guidelines apply to this example?

[+Castle Mischief]

IF the CO has worked it out with the reviewer, who am I to argue?

[knowschad]

Of course! We commonly disable caches around here for the winter when they are not easily accessable under the snow. I don't see why the cache owner wouldn't leave it open for those that wanted to use hip boots or waders, but he may have his reasons.

[+briansnat]

Why not? I have a cache in a mine that is closed from Sept 1st to April 30th to protect hibernating bats. Well due to white nose syndrome it is now closed year round until they can figure out what is killing the bats, but before that I would disable the cache in Sept and re-enable it at the end of April.

[+wimseyguy]

I don't see any problems with this arrangement. Even in temperate NC we have some parks that close for the winter.

 

Besides, it isn't like this situation is blocking a new cache from being placed nearby is it?

[+kunarion]

Is it reasonable for a cache to be disabled for 7 months each year?

Is it a time thing, or is it a water level thing? It seems to me that a bog might get impassable after any sudden storm, if only briefly. The CO will have the extra work of checking when it's dry enough to go, but if they're that attentive, it sounds like a good cache to me.

 

I'd rather have it listed year-round, and let me decide when I wish to do some swamp stomping. But there are plenty of caches that are disabled for months at a time, so it's not unheard of. Sometimes they're disabled due to the area becoming Muggle Central or off-limits during certain seasons.

 

The reviewer would be the one to archive it, so I'd say ask them first.

Edited October 21, 2010 by kunarion

[+addisonbr]

I wouldn't have a problem with this at all.

[Dinoprophet]

What are your thoughts? Would you say the above guidelines apply to this example?

No, that's specifically talking about fixing a problem.

[+L0ne.R]

Is it reasonable for a cache to be disabled for 7 months each year?

Is it a time thing, or is it a water level thing? It seems to me that a bog might get impassable after any sudden storm, if only briefly. The CO will have the extra work of checking when it's dry enough to go, but if they're that attentive, it sounds like a good cache to me.

 

I'd rather have it listed year-round, and let me decide when I wish to do some swamp stomping. But there are plenty of caches that are disabled for months at a time, so it's not unheard of. Sometimes they're disabled due to the area becoming Muggle Central or off-limits during certain seasons.

 

The reviewer would be the one to archive it, so I'd say ask them first.

 

Well it's not a very good cache....plastic large yogurt container stapled to a dead small tree/bush about 35 feet into the bog (a number of logs have very polite suggestions that it would be good to replace the container with something more sturdy but it hasn't happened). However, forgetting the quality issue, I was wondering what is a reasonable length of time to disable a cache. So far the answer is - yes disabling a cache for 7 months of the year can be a reasonable amount of time.

 

Is it reasonable for a local cacher like myself to alert the reviewer, or would you feel it to be bad form? The .1 mile radius does take up a large area of drier ground where someone else could place a (hopefully better) cache.

[+Chokecherry]

I agree with knowschad. Up here in winter wonderland there are many caches that are pretty much only available May/June to October time because of the snow or snow combined with hunting season on the fall end.

 

If the only question is the problem with the cache not being available for some months then I see nothing wrong with it.

[+Ecylram]

Sounds like a CO who cares and is paying attention to their caches. Disabling inaccessible caches saves cachers a lot of time and gasoline.

 

In the spring, the caches will bloom.

[+dfx]

personally i wonder what the reason behind disabling it is. the cache being not accessible is not a reason - it may be harder to access, but not impossible. is it gonna get frozen in? does the bog need to be protected in winter months?

[+zoltig]

Sounds like a CO who cares and is paying attention to their caches. Disabling inaccessible (seasonal)

caches saves cachers a lot of time and gasoline.

 

 

That!

[+StarBrand]

I have a cache at 10,800 foot elevation. The nearest road opens in late May and is often snowed in by Mid October. The cache has been known to be covered in several feet of snow in mid July. In mid February - the area has up to 20 feet of snow over it. Effectively - it is only availble 2 to 4 months a year. I don't bother disabling it but I know of several nearby caches that get a yearly temp disable. No big deal.

 

High Country Hide

[Pup Patrol]

Is it reasonable for a cache to be disabled for 7 months each year?

Is it a time thing, or is it a water level thing? It seems to me that a bog might get impassable after any sudden storm, if only briefly. The CO will have the extra work of checking when it's dry enough to go, but if they're that attentive, it sounds like a good cache to me.

 

I'd rather have it listed year-round, and let me decide when I wish to do some swamp stomping. But there are plenty of caches that are disabled for months at a time, so it's not unheard of. Sometimes they're disabled due to the area becoming Muggle Central or off-limits during certain seasons.

 

The reviewer would be the one to archive it, so I'd say ask them first.

 

Well it's not a very good cache....plastic large yogurt container stapled to a dead small tree/bush about 35 feet into the bog (a number of logs have very polite suggestions that it would be good to replace the container with something more sturdy but it hasn't happened). However, forgetting the quality issue, I was wondering what is a reasonable length of time to disable a cache. So far the answer is - yes disabling a cache for 7 months of the year can be a reasonable amount of time.

 

Is it reasonable for a local cacher like myself to alert the reviewer, or would you feel it to be bad form? The .1 mile radius does take up a large area of drier ground where someone else could place a (hopefully better) cache.

 

What issue would you be alerting the reviewer to?

 

If there's no real problems that have been reported using the "Needs Maintenance" note, and it's been demonstrated that caches are indeed disabled for "seasonal" reasons, why would a reviewer need to be involved?

[+Harry Dolphin]

I can see making a cache 'unavailable' to protect bats. or migrating turtles. If the park is closed six months out of the year, then yes. "Oh, it's too wet" is not a valid reason, IMHO. While reviewers may vary, there was one nearby that was shut down for the winter for 'can get very wet here in the winter' (or some such). The reviewer archived it.

I've never considered making any of my caches 'unavailable' after snowfall. And many of them would be nigh unto impossible to find then. (Well, there was the noted example of a cacher bored after the blizzard who hiked in a mile, with four feet of snow on the ground. And managed to find the cache!) Ya takes your chances on such things.

I do have one that is not 'normally' available about six months out of the year. FTF was during the winter months. He received permission to snowmobile in. If you can figure out how to get there, go for it! I've never considered making it 'unavailable' during the winter.

So, it's between the reviewer and the CO. The reviewer might not be aware of the 'problem'. I do not buy the 'it blocks other caches' gambit. Tough cookies on that one. First come, first served. (Otherwise, people would try to archive my evil mystery caches as 'taking up available space'. Too bad. So sad.

[+agility3d]

I have seen this in North Carolina with caches that were in a park that closed to the public from November 1st until March 1st. There was no access to the land during that time and the disabled caches do not affect the ability of anyone else putting out new caches since there is no way into the area. I see no problem with it.

[+GrateBear]

Agree it's not a problem. There's one here that is available only from Oct until April. It's on (well, not really "on") a bridge over a canal, and the canals are only dry during the winter.

[+SeekerOfTheWay]

I don't think it needs to be disabled. Just make a note on the cache page that says the Terrain rating goes up to a 4 during the wet season. That's what a lot of the caches around here say. Many of the trails get flooded. If a cacher still wants to attempt them, more power to them! I wait til the dry season, when the T is back down to 2.5!

[+dfx]

+ description anyone?

[+Touchstone]

I've never considered making any of my caches 'unavailable' after snowfall. And many of them would be nigh unto impossible to find then. (Well, there was the noted example of a cacher bored after the blizzard who hiked in a mile, with four feet of snow on the ground. And managed to find the cache!) Ya takes your chances on such things.

 

+1 on this part of HD's comments.

 

I've also never considered Disabling any of my Listings just because the ground is a bit damp or the weather is a bit inclement . It's up to the ingenuity of Finders to figure out how to make it to GZ in one piece.

 

If folks email me for advice, I'll usually give them my candid opinion. In some instances, I wouldn't even consider trying some of my caches during the Winter months, but that doesn't mean that it can't be done.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with some of the posts regarding some sort of Regulatory restriction on an area (i.e. bats and the white nose syndrome issue).

 

edit spelling

Edited October 22, 2010 by Touchstone

[+John in Valley Forge]

There might be some regulatory issue about the location. Did you see any signage by the cache or are there any indications of such on the page?

 

I've heard of some on state gamelands that get disabled for hunting seasons. One said he disables it a month or so ahead of time to give people time to notice it.

Edited October 22, 2010 by John in Valley Forge

[+Crow-T-Robot]

I do not buy the 'it blocks other caches' gambit. Tough cookies on that one. First come, first served.

 

That's true. The cache takes up the same amount of space whether disabled or enabled. The owner found the spot first and placed his cache there. If his reasoning passes muster with the reviewer, then he can disable the cache for as long as needed.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I agree with knowschad. Up here in winter wonderland there are many caches that are pretty much only available May/June to October time because of the snow or snow combined with hunting season on the fall end.

 

If the only question is the problem with the cache not being available for some months then I see nothing wrong with it.

 

We certainly have the same issues with snow and hunting seasons but I don't know of any caches that are disabled purely for those reasons.

 

There's one about .5 from me that's in a gorge with a steep stone trail along side (and over a bridge or two) a creek. There are several waterfalls in the section of the gorge and is probably one of the most scenic spots within the city of Ithaca. The trail is closed by the city every winter so the cache located there is typically disabled 5-6 months every winter. It was actually disabled for much longer then that when portions of the trail was rebuilt. The cache has been there since 2003.

[+Chokecherry]

That's the norm where you live but not me. And it's not unusual here for people to disable them to get the point across to overzealous finders who may not be familiar with the area that the cache really isn't available during these months. Especially during the hunting seasons where it looks perfectly fine to go out to them. It protects the hunter and the finder.

 

That's fine if the norm in other areas is different. I was simply stating that based on where I cache disabling is normal.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

That's the norm where you live but not me. And it's not unusual here for people to disable them to get the point across to overzealous finders who may not be familiar with the area that the cache really isn't available during these months. Especially during the hunting seasons where it looks perfectly fine to go out to them. It protects the hunter and the finder.

 

That's fine if the norm in other areas is different. I was simply stating that based on where I cache disabling is normal.

 

So was I. As it turns out one of the better spots for placing caches is also one of the best areas for hunting (State game lands). I don't recall any of those caches getting disabled during hunting season but the cache listings are usually splattered with warnings about going to look for it during hunting season. I've got a bright orange vest in my backpack that I bring with me whenever I go caching in hunting season and have used it quite a bit.

 

Snow doesn't stop a lot of geocachers from going out and I think most realize that making the find usually is going to be a lot more difficult (sometimes it can be easier if there is a clear geotrail in the snow to follow) and there are certainly some places where it's not as safe to search when there is snow on the ground. I walked away from a potential find a couple of winters ago after seeing the steep snow covered embankment I'd have to climb down (and up) to get it.

 

The only situation where I *wish* some COs would disable their caches in the winter are some which require a boat to access. There's one north of me on an island about .25 from shore on a big lake. I've read enough stories about people going out in boats in the early spring when the air temp is 60 degrees but the water is still in the 40's or 50's, capsizing, then dying from hypothermia. There are just too many people that just don't realize the danger they're putting themselves in when they get into a small boat when the water is that cold.

[+GeoGeeBee]

A CO plants a cache in a bog which is only dry from June to mid October (if it's a dry year), the CO has decided to disable it from mid-Oct to late Spring (which around here is late May/early June). Is it reasonable for a cache to be disabled for 7 months each year? The guidelines say:

You may temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to hunt for it until you have a chance to fix the problem. This feature is to allow you a reasonable time – normally a few weeks – in which to arrange a visit to your cache. In the event that a cache is not being properly maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an extended period of time, we may archive the listing.

 

What are your thoughts? Would you say the above guidelines apply to this example?

 

Is it blocking placement of a cache that would be available year-round?

[jkettu]

Stupid noob question of the day: Can a CO edit terrain/difficulty ratings without bothering a reviewer? To me the obvious solution would seem to be to leave the cache active, but adjust the ratings according to the season. For example many island caches on my latitude would be terrain 5 during summer, but only 2 in winter.

[+addisonbr]

Stupid noob question of the day: Can a CO edit terrain/difficulty ratings without bothering a reviewer? To me the obvious solution would seem to be to leave the cache active, but adjust the ratings according to the season. For example many island caches on my latitude would be terrain 5 during summer, but only 2 in winter.

You can.

 

It gets a little tricky, though, because folks may be using a cache listing to satisfy a particular difficulty / terrain combination for a Fizzy Challenge. Switching the ratings around can complicate those efforts.

[+tomfuller & Quill]

Stupid noob question of the day: Can a CO edit terrain/difficulty ratings without bothering a reviewer? To me the obvious solution would seem to be to leave the cache active, but adjust the ratings according to the season. For example many island caches on my latitude would be terrain 5 during summer, but only 2 in winter.

You can.

 

It gets a little tricky, though, because folks may be using a cache listing to satisfy a particular difficulty / terrain combination for a Fizzy Challenge. Switching the ratings around can complicate those efforts.

 

I don't change the terrain or difficulty ratings seasonally. If someone wants to search for one of my caches wearing hip waders or snowshoes it is up to them to judge the terrain on a particular day. Some of my favorite caches are most easily acessable by kayak/canoe.

As someone who is slowly working on the Fizzy Challenge, it would upset me if a CO changed a rating on a cache that I had only one of.

Several of my caches in the Cascades have more than a foot of snow over them for several months per year.

[+dreamarcher]

I love the idea. Makes it that much more sweet. Just make sure it's not another dumb film canister with nothing inside after I wait months to get to it.

 

How about a multi. Part 1 you can only get to in the summer. Part 2 you can only get to in the winter.

[+L0ne.R]

A CO plants a cache in a bog which is only dry from June to mid October (if it's a dry year), the CO has decided to disable it from mid-Oct to late Spring (which around here is late May/early June). Is it reasonable for a cache to be disabled for 7 months each year? The guidelines say:

You may temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to hunt for it until you have a chance to fix the problem. This feature is to allow you a reasonable time – normally a few weeks – in which to arrange a visit to your cache. In the event that a cache is not being properly maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an extended period of time, we may archive the listing.

 

What are your thoughts? Would you say the above guidelines apply to this example?

 

Is it blocking placement of a cache that would be available year-round?

 

I can see how the mantra "first come first served" apply. However there are plenty of places in this suburban green space to place a cache that would be available all year round, without placing 35 feet into the bog. But that's here-nor-there.

 

Closing this one for the upcoming winter is pre-mature. There should be no trouble accessing the cache (which is stapled 3 feet off the ground) when the ground is frozen. I suspect that the CO doesn't want to have to maintain the cache during the cooler/frigid/wetter months. Personally, if you are going to plant in a bog it's going to mean you've got to get your Wellies on every once in a while. So my question is more along the lines of...is it OK to disable your cache during months where you don't want to have to maintain the cache?

Edited October 22, 2010 by Lone R

[+Touchstone]

..is it OK to disable your cache during months where you don't want to have to maintain the cache?

[\quote]

 

Taking your statement at face value, I would have to say no, it is not alright to Disable a Listing for an extended period of time, merely to avoid maintenance responsibilities.

 

On the other hand, it's difficult to judge intent. I suspect the majority of people who Disable their Listings feel that they are doing it so that others in the Community are not inconvenienced, and not for selfish reasons.

[Pup Patrol]

I suspect that the CO doesn't want to have to maintain the cache during the cooler/frigid/wetter months. Personally, if you are going to plant in a bog it's going to mean you've got to get your Wellies on every once in a while. So my question is more along the lines of...is it OK to disable your cache during months where you don't want to have to maintain the cache?

 

That's different than what you were asking in your original post.

 

Do you know the cache owner? Do you know his intentions? His reasoning for disabling the cache?

 

Do you know if the cache owner and the reviewer have already discussed this?

 

It seems to me that you are looking for reasons to have the cache archived, so that you can place one. And that you're looking to the forum members to validate posting a "needs archived".

 

That's the way it's coming across to me, personally.

[+L0ne.R]

I suspect that the CO doesn't want to have to maintain the cache during the cooler/frigid/wetter months. Personally, if you are going to plant in a bog it's going to mean you've got to get your Wellies on every once in a while. So my question is more along the lines of...is it OK to disable your cache during months where you don't want to have to maintain the cache?

 

That's different than what you were asking in your original post.

 

 

Yes....reading through the replies, and thinking more on the subject, made me realize what I was really concerned about.

 

Do you know the cache owner? Do you know his intentions? His reasoning for disabling the cache?

 

I don't personally know the owners. They are new cachers, joined July 21 2010 placed this cache Aug 3 2010. Touchstone may be right...the CO may have good intentions and may not want to inconvenience finders.

 

It seems to me that you are looking for reasons to have the cache archived, so that you can place one. And that you're looking to the forum members to validate posting a "needs archived".

 

No, I don't want to place another cache right now, I've got enough hides to look after at the moment. But I wouldn't mind someone else placing one in that area so I can go look for it. When I saw the disable (with the message "Closed until late Spring 2011"), my first reaction was to notify the reviewer then I thought twice about being hasty and decided to solicit opinions from the forumites.

 

My feelings right now are....there are good and legitimate reasons to disable a cache for 7 months of the year. In this case it's if-fy, but it's really nothing to get worked up about or contact a reviewer over.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Lone R

[+wimseyguy]

I love the idea. Makes it that much more sweet. Just make sure it's not another dumb film canister with nothing inside after I wait months to get to it.

 

How about a multi. Part 1 you can only get to in the summer. Part 2 you can only get to in the winter.

That idea isn't likely to fly with the reviewers.

[+Thrak]

My only beef with caches that are only available for a short part of the year is when people put my travel items in caches of that sort. If you have to climb a mountain to reach the cache and it's only available a short time each year my travel item is pretty much stuck there for a very looooooooooong time.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

My only beef with caches that are only available for a short part of the year is when people put my travel items in caches of that sort. If you have to climb a mountain to reach the cache and it's only available a short time each year my travel item is pretty much stuck there for a very looooooooooong time.

 

I hadn't really considered this until mentioned a cache on top of a mountain that may be hard to reach much of the year, but the OP only mentioned a cache that was seasonally disabled and didn't say anything about whether the container was removed. If the container is still there, even if it's disabled there are going to be some that are going to find it anyway, especially if there are no official closures of the area where it's located.

[+Team Dromomania]

I have no problem with closer dates. I have a few hides in an area that is closed to the public during hunting and fire season. Another cacher has a hide near me that is shut down during the marijuana harvest (don't want cachers to be shot). There's a lot of reasons a cacher may shut down a hide for a spell.

[+E = Mc2]

"Oh, it's too wet" is not a valid reason, IMHO.

 

We have caches in the Louisville area that are under 20 feet of water for some months. They're really only available for about 6 months out of the year, and for several of those months can only be reached by boat. They're behind a dam in the Ohio river. An example of only being available during certain times of year and one of my favorites is near the South Pole. It can only be accessed during the Summer, because it's dark the other 6 months and no one can get there.

[+briansnat]

Stupid noob question of the day: Can a CO edit terrain/difficulty ratings without bothering a reviewer? To me the obvious solution would seem to be to leave the cache active, but adjust the ratings according to the season. For example many island caches on my latitude would be terrain 5 during summer, but only 2 in winter.

You can.

 

It gets a little tricky, though, because folks may be using a cache listing to satisfy a particular difficulty / terrain combination for a Fizzy Challenge. Switching the ratings around can complicate those efforts.

 

The difficulty of the terrain can change after a hard rain. I don't it's necessary to constantly change terrain ratings depending on conditions.

 

I think it's best to use the conditions that cache hunters are most likely to encounter to rate the terrain and leave it. Then let cachers use their own judgment. I think most people will know that a cache might be harder to get to after a snow storm, or that an island cache can be reachable on foot if the ice is thick enough.