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Fun day of first-to-log marks


apollosmith

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There's something special about finding benchmarks that haven't been logged or recovered in many years. It sure beats exchanging geoswag and looking under lamp post skirts. B)

 

I took the kids today and we found 5 railroad benchmarks that had no recent geocaching.com logs or NGS observations in recent decades - MR0497, MS0793, MS0003, MS0005, and MS0006. We also made logs on two that are probably gone or unusable (MS0004 and MS0001).

 

Do you think these are good candidates for making NGS logs? If the effort might provide useful information for someone in the future, I'd be happy to provide quality observation logs - I have updated coordinates (the posted ones are all of by more than 100 feet), photos, and descriptions on each mark.

 

af601f04-6b98-4c1a-953d-32fac1d2af48.jpg

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Do you think these are good candidates for making NGS logs? If the effort might provide useful information for someone in the future, I'd be happy to provide quality observation logs - I have updated coordinates (the posted ones are all of by more than 100 feet), photos, and descriptions on each mark.

 

 

Check out what everyone said about logging on the NGS Database on my recent post. Click Here

 

It was very useful and showed how much BM hunters like to help others to avoid mistakes that would make you look silly when posting to the NGS database.

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apollosmith,

 

Nice to see your mountains again along with the old RR BM'S. Have you worked on any of the early 1900 BM runs there in northern Utah - descriptions found in Special Pub 18?

 

http://www.archive.org/stream/hypsometryfo...age/n5/mode/2up

 

Do you have a closer picture of your suspected location for SEMAPHORE NO. 47.7; and did you measure the calls?

 

If you were anywhere close to the '3 1/2 FEET HIGHER THAN THE GROUND' concrete pier for the RR water tank you would have seen it unless it has been completely filled over and landscaped.

 

One of my recent finds:

 

0719315a-674d-46ad-a87d-11726a7c61e7.jpg

 

SR0440

 

Both of yours would fit the 'Not recovered, not found' parameters for a NGS recovery - see below.

 

From NGS DATASHEET DATASHEET page, SUBMIT RECOVERY TAB (bottom line of Retrieval Links).

 

Select condition of mark:

( )Good

( )Not recovered, not found

( )Poor, disturbed, mutilated, requires maintenance

 

For Destroyed condition, see Note below

 

Note: For destroyed marks do one of the following:

 

1) If you have found the actual marker separated from its setting, you can report the point as destroyed. To do so please send the report on the destroyed mark as an email to Deb Brown (Deb.Brown@noaa.gov). If you send this email, please do not submit the current form, Deb Brown will submit the report for you. In addition, please submit proof of the mark's destruction via actual disk, rubbing, photo, or digital picture (preferred) to Deb Brown:

 

Deb Brown, N/NGS143

National Geodetic Survey, NOAA

1315 East West Highway

Silver Spring, MD 20910

 

2) If you did not find the actual marker, then you should enter notes concerning evidence of its possible destruction as text records and select "Not recovered, not found" as the condition of mark.

 

kayakbird

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Welcome to the Benchmark Forum, looks like your off to a good start.

 

I searched the forum for "logging" in the title and there are a lot of topics - in one thread I found this little nugget, "There is a recovery report writing section in holograph's benchmark hunting wiki here." (thnx BDT, I always forget how much info is on holograph's site)

 

If you want, post your first few recovery reports here for a critique.

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Have you worked on any of the early 1900 BM runs there in northern Utah - descriptions found in Special Pub 18?

 

No, but these look like a lot of fun!

 

Do you have a closer picture of your suspected location for SEMAPHORE NO. 47.7; and did you measure the calls?

 

This photo is all I have - http://img.geocaching.com/benchmark/lg/106...1af07650d16.jpg

 

I rough measured the calls for MS0004 and the arrow points to the approximate location (within a few feet). You can see the switchstand in the background. Photo facing ENE. I dug about a foot and couldn't find a concrete base. As southpawaz noted, K 331 Reset appears to have used the original disk. I'll provide this documentation in my recovery log - though will, of course, log it as "Not Found" rather than "Destroyed".

 

If you were anywhere close to the '3 1/2 FEET HIGHER THAN THE GROUND' concrete pier for the RR water tank you would have seen it unless it has been completely filled over and landscaped.

 

MS0001 is much more difficult because the Union Pacific station was torn down over 20 years ago. Taking my best guess at the original location and measurements from the rail puts it in somebody's front yard. There were no raised piers in view, and the threatening dogs made asking the property owner quite unappealing.

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Here are a few draft recovery reports. Please provide recommended modifications.

 

MS0001 - Not Recovered

 

Union Pacific Railroad Station and elevated water tank are no longer extant. No indication of raised concrete foundation in vicinity of coordinates or the described location.

 

MR0497 - Good

 

HH2 coordinates N41 49 58.0, W111 59 31.9

 

(I assume that because it was found as described, the above is adequate. Correct?)

 

MS0003 - Good

 

Small telephone company building is no longer extant. HH2 coordinates N41 51 57.1, W112 00 53.2

 

MS0004 - Not Recovered

 

Semaphore NO. 47.7 not present, though concrete base possibly buried. The nearby MS0005 (K 331 RESET - monumented 1950) appears to use this mark's original 1937 disk with "RESET 1950" stamped on it.

 

MR0484 - Poor, disturbed, mutilated, requires maintenance

 

Disk is present, but mutilated and unreadable. Along Union Pacific Railroad, .75 miles south of Trenton and .25 miles north of 9400 North. Cottle siding no longer extant. HH2 coordinates N41 54 24.5, W111 56 44.7

 

(Is this additional, updated detail necessary for a mutilated disk?)

 

Other questions:

- Should I comment on status of witness posts?

- Should I indicate overgrowth or other things that may make the mark difficult to use or find?

- Anything else I'm missing?

Edited by apollosmith
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Any details included to describe WHY you didn't find it are always welcome.

HH2 co-ordinates for the actual location of the mark are good as well.

As are updates for the referenced objects nearby.

It's always good to describe the condition of the disk, and (regardless of condition) include HH2 co-ordinates. If a professional surveyor wants to use the mark, let them decide if it's in good enough shape or not.

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These are good. My only suggestion has to do with keeping the wording similar to other station descriptions in your area. For instance:

 

MS0003. Recovered in good condition. Delete telephone building, which no longer exists. HH2 GPS coordinates _____________________.

 

Note the substitution of "no longer exists", for "is no longer extant". Grammer rules aside (see below), the phrases "no longer exists", "have been removed", or "not observed" seem to be 'NGS Speak" for "I didn't see the thing while I was at the site". [Grin.]

 

-Paul-

 

Grammer observation: I agree that"extant" means "existing". However, it is an adjective, which should modify a noun. We can speak of extant railroad structures in Henry County, where "extant" and "railroad" describe 'structures". The opposite of "extant" is "non-extant", but again, it must modify a noun. "No longer exists" is the better way to describe a state of being.

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Very good suggestions from all. Witness posts should be mentioned if different/added/missing compared to prior reports. If a mark is buried, give the depth. If the overgrowth is really nasty (you can't get through without a machete) it is probably worth noting "heavy overgrowth".

 

Your observation about the disk being reset and restamped is a very important one.

 

As a personal interpretation of the style I never say "Delete" but would rephrase more concisely

Delete telephone building, which no longer exists.

as: Telephone building no longer exists.

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I rough measured the calls for MS0004 and the arrow points to the approximate location (within a few feet). You can see the switchstand in the background. Photo facing ENE. I dug about a foot and couldn't find a concrete base. As southpawaz noted, K 331 Reset appears to have used the original disk. I'll provide this documentation in my recovery log - though will, of course, log it as "Not Found" rather than "Destroyed".

 

Based on the disk stampings you MAY have enough evidence to say that MS0004 is destroyed. Reset disks are typically stamped differently--for instance I would expect this disk to say "K 331 RESET" at the top and "1950" at the bottom. With the 1937 stamping it would appear you have the original disk in a different location, with new stamping, and you might convince Deb Brown to mark it destroyed.

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As a personal interpretation of the style I never say "Delete" but would rephrase more concisely

Delete telephone building, which no longer exists.

as: Telephone building no longer exists.

I usually phrase it as "not observed." This is consistent with what I take to be standard style in NGS reports. More importantly, it is more accurate in many cases. Usually, the observed absence of a referenced building, structure, witness post indicates it's gone. But occasionally it could be an error in your observation or the description itself. The "one-story building south of the station" may be demolished ... or it may actually be north ... or it might have been remodeled to a two-story building.

 

-ArtMan-

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As a personal interpretation of the style I never say "Delete" but would rephrase more concisely

Delete telephone building, which no longer exists.

as: Telephone building no longer exists.

I usually phrase it as "not observed." This is consistent with what I take to be standard style in NGS reports. More importantly, it is more accurate in many cases. Usually, the observed absence of a referenced building, structure, witness post indicates it's gone. But occasionally it could be an error in your observation or the description itself. The "one-story building south of the station" may be demolished ... or it may actually be north ... or it might have been remodeled to a two-story building.

 

-ArtMan-

 

And, indeed, 'Not Observed/Not Noted' may be more appropriate in case the foundation is still there (buried) and could provide a required measurement to a mark that was not recovered by one of us.

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Thank you for your recommendations. I just made my first batch of 12 recovery submissions! :D

 

A few questions:

 

- Is there a way to search for GEOCAC recoveries for my area? I've looked through records for many hundreds of nearby benchmarks and have yet to find a GEOCAC observation. Any other way to find others doing this in my area?

 

- The submission form asks for initials, which I entered ("JWS"). I noticed the Holoscenes Statistics page lists observations by initials, but my initials are already taken by an inactive member with 3 old recoveries. Will my observations show up? Under "JWS" or something else?

 

- Is all this effort really worth it? I mean, it's fun to find these and log on GC.com, but are the NGS recovery submissions really useful to anyone? There are so few recent observations (like maybe a couple in my county), I wonder about their utility.

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- Is there a way to search for GEOCAC recoveries for my area?

 

- Is all this effort really worth it? I mean, it's fun to find these and log on GC.com, but are the NGS recovery submissions really useful to anyone? There are so few recent observations (like maybe a couple in my county), I wonder about their utility.

 

apollosmith,

 

I have seen recent evidence of occupation by professionals at both TRI's and BM's - a couple of times with tripods over the mark. They are still being used.

 

I would hope to some time hear that at least one of my NGS recoveries saved someone a few $.

 

'Is there a way to search for GEOCAC recoveries for my area?"

 

The best way I know to track recent recoveries is to download county shapefiles and data sort on the LAST_RECBY column. Can also easily hi-grade the oldest marks with the FIRST_RECV column.

 

MEL

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The submission form asks for initials, which I entered ("JWS"). I noticed the Holoscenes Statistics page lists observations by initials, but my initials are already taken by an inactive member with 3 old recoveries. Will my observations show up? Under "JWS" or something else?

 

I've flagged those initials so that recoveries must be manually reviewed and assigned to the correct identity. It may be months before the NGS posts the recovery reports, but once you know that the datasheets have been updated, you can check the statistics to verify the correct assignment. Let me know if they show up under the wrong identity.

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"apollosmith," those are nice recoveries, but are those active railroad tracks? Personally, I'd be petrified about taking small children within a couple hundred feet of them if they are.

 

They are semi-active. The trains run very infrequently and only on set days and times... like clockwork. And not on the day we went. Even then, we were very attentive and stayed off the tracks except to cross. We were very clear in explaining this to the kids, who had a very fun time. All they ask about is when we're going benchmark hunting again.

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- Is there a way to search for GEOCAC recoveries for my area? I've looked through records for many hundreds of nearby benchmarks and have yet to find a GEOCAC observation. Any other way to find others doing this in my area?

 

 

I use GSAK. It's easy to search for a text string in the recoveries. I am particularly interested to see if they have entered updated co-ordinates, but not everyone does that. :yikes:

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