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Garmin Chirp- Geocaching Beacon

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the 450 has a picture viewer as well so if any one has that maybe they can speak up and let us know if you can see a screen shot on the unit.
Negative. HAVE a 450 (see sig) and nothing doing. That's why I was wondering if the 550 was any different.

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nm

Edited by dfx

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Also note that the OR 300 sets the Screen Capture default to OFF every time you power the unit on. So you will have to turn it on manually if you want to capture the screens.

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Do not mount the chirp inside a metal container.

Do not bury the chirp.

Do not put the chirp in water.

A compatible Garmin device should detect the chirp within 10 m. For maximum transmission range, allow the chirp to have an unobstructed view in all directions.

 

Warning: Pregnant women, the elderly and children under 10 should avoid prolonged exposure to Chirp.

Caution: Chirp may suddenly accelerate to dangerous speeds.

Chirp Contains a liquid core, which, if exposed due to rupture, should not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.

Do not use Chirp on concrete.

 

Discontinue use of Chirp if any of the following occurs:

Itching

Vertigo

Dizziness

Tingling in extremities

Loss of balance or coordination

Slurred speech

Temporary blindness

Profuse sweating

Heart palpitations

 

If Chirp begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head.

 

Chirp may stick to certain types of skin.

 

When not in use, Chirp should be returned to its special container and kept under refrigeration...

 

Failure to do so relieves the makers of Chirp, Garmin Incorporated, and its parent company Global Chemical Unlimited, of any and all liability.

 

Ingredients of Chirp include an unknown glowing substance which fell to Earth, presumably from outer space.

 

Chirp has been shipped to our troops in Saudi Arabia and is also being dropped by our warplanes on Iraq.

 

Do not taunt Chirp

 

Chirp comes with a lifetime guarantee.

 

Chirp!

 

ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!

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What about if it lasts over four hours!?? :P

Edited by EraSeek

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you don't find chirp, chirp finds you!

Maybe in Soviet Russia.

 

chirp. It's what's for dinner caches.

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What about if it lasts over four hours!?? :P

 

Seek Garmin support staff.

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One find but a lot of looks at the page.

 

How do you tell how many people viewed the page?

 

The Chirp keeps track of how many times its message has been transmitted, and reports

that with each message (incrementally).

 

Bill

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I'm afraid the new Chirp device is something very exclusive to Garmin, which brings it into conflict with our commercial guidelines. To be publishable, the cache needs to be findable with any type of GPS device, and the Chirp method must be optional. Please come up with an alternative option to do this cache which does not require a Chirp compatible device. After you have done this, please enable your cache and I will look at it again.

Thank you for your understanding,

XXXX XXXXXX

Geocaching.com Volunteer Reviewer

 

Maybe this has been brought up already but there are many caches that cannot be found without specific equipment. I see this as no different. If you can rent or borrow a boat to get a cache that requires a boat, you can rent or borrow a GPSr to find the cache.

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I'm afraid the new Chirp device is something very exclusive to Garmin,

 

Maybe this has been brought up already but there are many caches that cannot be found without specific equipment. I see this as no different. If you can rent or borrow a boat to get a cache that requires a boat, you can rent or borrow a GPSr to find the cache.

I've highlighted the portion that caused Groundspeak the brain damage. Chirp requires GPS units from a sole source to read and interpret its data. You can get a boat from [how many?!?] different manufacturers. Allowing a cache that requires Chirp was considered too much of a direct endorsement of one company's product.

 

To head off the Wherigo argument, it's been pointed out that there were some mobile computing devices that could deal with these as well.

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I'm afraid the new Chirp device is something very exclusive to Garmin,

there are many caches that cannot be found without specific equipment. I see this as no different. If you can rent or borrow a boat to get a cache that requires a boat, you can rent or borrow a GPSr to find the cache.

Chirp requires GPS units from a sole source to read and interpret its data. You can get a boat from [how many?!?] different manufacturers.
Worse, there's the trend lately to place boat caches on particular waterways. Not everyone has that river! And I can't borrow it or even rent it. What an outrage.

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Just did a Chirp cache on the weekend and learned something new. I was still doing a goto on the cache when I hit go on the Chirp page. It put it in as a Next Stage instead of a Waypoint. Cool.

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Though the restrictions for putting out a Chirp cache is not to mention Garmin or links to Garmin, I noticed in the bookmark list by salsaguy that many of the cachers jump into created theirs or converted old caches including Garmin in their cache pages. One even included Garmin Chirp in the cache owner's name. So if these are allowed maybe others will think they will all be allowed.

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Though the restrictions for putting out a Chirp cache is not to mention Garmin or links to Garmin...
While true as far as it goes, the restriction is a little deeper than that. They're not just looking to avoid "advertising" for Garmin, they're also not permitting caches to be placed that cannot be found without the Garmin GPS units that can handle Chirp. If Chirp is included as part of a cache, an alternative means for the finder to manage that stage must also be included by the CO.

 

I see the problem you present, though. I wonder how many cache listings are being modified that include info that's a bit "too product specific" after the initial review and publish. The admins would not notice this unless it was brought to their attention .. unless they're searching for that beacon attribute, of course!

Edited by ecanderson

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Though the restrictions for putting out a Chirp cache is not to mention Garmin or links to Garmin...
While true as far as it goes, the restriction is a little deeper than that. They're not just looking to avoid "advertising" for Garmin, they're also not permitting caches to be placed that cannot be found without the Garmin GPS units that can handle Chirp. If Chirp is included as part of a cache, an alternative means for the finder to manage that stage must also be included by the CO.

 

I see the problem you present, though. I wonder how many cache listings are being modified that include info that's a bit "too product specific" after the initial review and publish. The admins would not notice this unless it was brought to their attention .. unless they're searching for that beacon attribute, of course!

You can bet your bippy that if I went looking for a chirp augmented cache with my 76CSx and found the cache was changed to remove the alternate way of finding I would be filing a NA log.

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While true as far as it goes, the restriction is a little deeper than that. They're not just looking to avoid "advertising" for Garmin, they're also not permitting caches to be placed that cannot be found without the Garmin GPS units that can handle Chirp. If Chirp is included as part of a cache, an alternative means for the finder to manage that stage must also be included by the CO.

 

That's not quite true. What Groundspeak said was this:

 

If a cache owner puts a beacon in a traditional cache and geocachers have an alternative method to find it without using the beacon, then OK, just use the beacon attribute.

 

If the cache owner insists on not providing an alternative means of finding the geocache, it must be listed as a mystery with the beacon attribute.

 

My chirp cache does not currently have any other means of finding it (but that may change).

 

GO$Rs

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... they're also not permitting caches to be placed that cannot be found without the Garmin GPS units that can handle Chirp. If Chirp is included as part of a cache, an alternative means for the finder to manage that stage must also be included by the CO.

Please do not continue to spread inaccuracies.

 

Here's an earlier post by MissJenn on the same topic.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...p;#entry4504653

 

Specifically:

 

If the cache owner insists on not providing an alternative means of finding the geocache, it must be listed as a mystery with the beacon attribute.

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... they're also not permitting caches to be placed that cannot be found without the Garmin GPS units that can handle Chirp. If Chirp is included as part of a cache, an alternative means for the finder to manage that stage must also be included by the CO.

Please do not continue to spread inaccuracies.

Apologies. Please modify "caches" to "traditional caches". "Mystery Caches" can be just about anything except for a virtual these days.

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Apologies. Please modify "caches" to "traditional caches". "Mystery Caches" can be just about anything except for a virtual these days.

Sorry, didn't mean to come across so strongly. I just wanted to head off another round of unjustified Groundspeak bashing. If GS gets bashed, it should be for something they're responsible for B)

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Apologies. Please modify "caches" to "traditional caches". "Mystery Caches" can be just about anything except for a virtual these days.

Sorry, didn't mean to come across so strongly. I just wanted to head off another round of unjustified Groundspeak bashing. If GS gets bashed, it should be for something they're responsible for B)

No problem, and I knew better. I was the one that posted Groundspeak's "5 comments" in a large number of GPS venues that were reporting on Chirp was it was first announced, including the REI comment/review site where the product first appeared here. Edited by ecanderson

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It was my assumption that it will only transmit after receiving a "request" or "ping". Am I mistaken?

most likely, everything else would deplete the battery very fast.

 

it's safe to assume that the chirp is talking ANT. as i understand it, ANT is proprietary, but not exclusive - it can be licensed. now it's all just a matter of what data is sent between the chirp and the receiver and in what format. unless it's somehow encrypted, it should be trivial to reverse engineer.

An ANT development kit is available, from links provided some posts previously.

 

I wonder how chirp searching mode affects battery life on the GPSr. It would be nice to be able to enable / disable it easily, instead of Setup->(scroll down long way)->Geocache->chirp searching.

 

I would like to hear what others say about this. I have only looked for one chirp cache so far. I left chirp enabled afterward. I found it to deplete the battery very fast. I definitely only want to turn it on when it's needed and then turn it off. Now when I say fast, I didn't time it but my battery ran down hours before it usually does.

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I would like to hear what others say about this. I have only looked for one chirp cache so far. I left chirp enabled afterward. I found it to deplete the battery very fast. I definitely only want to turn it on when it's needed and then turn it off. Now when I say fast, I didn't time it but my battery ran down hours before it usually does.

in my lame power consumption tests, i found that having chirp searching enabled draws about 10-15 mA more current than without, which is about +10%.

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I would like to hear what others say about this. I have only looked for one chirp cache so far. I left chirp enabled afterward. I found it to deplete the battery very fast. I definitely only want to turn it on when it's needed and then turn it off. Now when I say fast, I didn't time it but my battery ran down hours before it usually does.

in my lame power consumption tests, i found that having chirp searching enabled draws about 10-15 mA more current than without, which is about +10%.

 

Interesting. Clearly not my experience. I'll be paying more attention to future use and battery drain.

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in my lame power consumption tests, i found that having chirp searching enabled draws about 10-15 mA more current than without, which is about +10%.

That's a fantastic test! Did you check how much more, if any, power it is drawing when it is in the vicinity of a chirp device?

 

I'm also curious about one other thing : does it continuously download from a chirp that's in range (hope not - kills the chirp's battery).

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in my lame power consumption tests, i found that having chirp searching enabled draws about 10-15 mA more current than without, which is about +10%.

That's a fantastic test! Did you check how much more, if any, power it is drawing when it is in the vicinity of a chirp device?

 

I'm also curious about one other thing : does it continuously download from a chirp that's in range (hope not - kills the chirp's battery).

Hmm. I have one in my car as a vehicle travel bug and it downloads each time I turn the car/gps on. Now about 70 times. Hasn't killed it yet.

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That's a fantastic test! Did you check how much more, if any, power it is drawing when it is in the vicinity of a chirp device?

 

I'm also curious about one other thing : does it continuously download from a chirp that's in range (hope not - kills the chirp's battery).

unfortunately i don't have a chirp to test either of those scenarios.

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I actually think that a useful application of ANT+ would be sending a cache data from a smartphone to a GPS for two-fisted caching.

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Hmm. I have one in my car as a vehicle travel bug and it downloads each time I turn the car/gps on. Now about 70 times. Hasn't killed it yet.

Thanks, that gave me an idea for testing. If I "discover" a chirp, note its "logged visits", leave GPSr near it for half an hour, turn it off, turn it back on again, and compare the two logged visits number, it'll tell me how many times the GPSr downloaded info from the chirp.

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Hmm. I have one in my car as a vehicle travel bug and it downloads each time I turn the car/gps on. Now about 70 times. Hasn't killed it yet.

Thanks, that gave me an idea for testing. If I "discover" a chirp, note its "logged visits", leave GPSr near it for half an hour, turn it off, turn it back on again, and compare the two logged visits number, it'll tell me how many times the GPSr downloaded info from the chirp.

I don't quite get what you are saying, but here's how that works. Anytime I edit the chip, it resets the visit number. First time you download it, it will say zero visits. Second time, 1 visit, and so on. It shows previous visits. If you don't turn the GPS off, but walk away and out of range, your GPS will show "searching for chip" on the dashboard, but when you walk back into range it will not download again but rather just show "chip detected" on the dashboard, and still show the info on the chip page. Everytime you turn off the unit and turn it back on within range it downloads again and counts again. As far as drawing power after being downloaded and still within range, I don't know, but my sense is that it (the chip)just broadcasts all the time at the same rate of power draw and only the GPS is affected and probably only by the download itself.

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I don't quite get what you are saying, but here's how that works. Anytime I edit the chip, it resets the visit number. First time you download it, it will say zero visits. Second time, 1 visit, and so on. It shows previous visits. If you don't turn the GPS off, but walk away and out of range, your GPS will show "searching for chip" on the dashboard, but when you walk back into range it will not download again but rather just show "chip detected" on the dashboard, and still show the info on the chip page. Everytime you turn off the unit and turn it back on within range it downloads again and counts again. As far as drawing power after being downloaded and still within range, I don't know, but my sense is that it (the chip)just broadcasts all the time at the same rate of power draw and only the GPS is affected and probably only by the download itself.

Thanks for the info.

 

There's some literature that suggests the chirp operates in 2 modes : a low power mode, where it broadcasts a beacon once every 2 seconds, and a higher power data transmission mode. There's probably also a programming mode, but since that happens infrequently it can be ignored.

 

The way it appears to work is that it will only transmit the data when requested to do so by a unit. I'm assuming every time the chirp transmits, it records it as one visit.

 

I'd like to know if a GPSr will continuously request the chirp transmit when it is in range of the chirp, or does it need to go out of range, then back into range again, before it will request the transmission. Seeing the # of visits can help determine that.

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OK so I just turned the GPS on and walked out to the car and it downloaded the chip data and the count read 80. I then walked out of range and the dashboard says it was searching for chip. Looking at the chip page the data is still there (there was no data before I fist walked within range and downloaded). When I walked back into range there is no download, the dashboard just says chip detected.... and the count is still 80. It only counts when the GPS is turned off (scrubbing the data), and turned back on again for an actual download. So just at actual downloads.

Edited by EraSeek

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It only counts when the GPS is turned off (scrubbing the data), and turned back on again for an actual download. So just at actual downloads.

Thanks for checking this out.

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If you have an iPhone and a Wahoo Fisica ANT fitness sensor key they have a beta ready for geocachers who want to try Garmin chirp...

 

http://www.wahoofitness.com/forum/messages...picID=25#post85

Actually, sounds like they have beta support in their API, and they need someone to write the app for it.

 

Still, that is a major step towards having a 3rd party device support chirp.

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That's gonna be a pretty small pool of testers. There are only about 70 "beacon" attribute caches in the entire USA so far.

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I am still a little down on Garmin regarding their lack of communication on this though.

 

What a coincidence. I've had that same feeling for about three years now :)

 

agreed. I am surprised the word didn't trickle up to Seattle a while ago... hush hush--don't tell anyone.

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... they're also not permitting caches to be placed that cannot be found without the Garmin GPS units that can handle Chirp. If Chirp is included as part of a cache, an alternative means for the finder to manage that stage must also be included by the CO.

Please do not continue to spread inaccuracies.

 

Here's an earlier post by MissJenn on the same topic.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...p;#entry4504653

 

Specifically:

 

If the cache owner insists on not providing an alternative means of finding the geocache, it must be listed as a mystery with the beacon attribute.

 

What they need to do is move that to the Guidelines page in GC. Not everyone reads blogs or forums. I just reread the Guidelines and they have not included chirps in it yet so how do other cachers know what the guidelines are?

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What they need to do is move that to the Guidelines page in GC. Not everyone reads blogs or forums. I just reread the Guidelines and they have not included chirps in it yet so how do other cachers know what the guidelines are?

the reviewers will tell them - after they've submitted their cache :mad:

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That's correct, just talked to Chip and they are hoping to get 3rd party application support. People should add votes over here if they would like to encourage Groundspeak to add support to their iphone Geocaching application:

 

http://feedback.geocaching.com/forums/7527...e-app?ref=title

 

GO$Rs

Don't forget about people, like my friend, who have the Nike+ iPod(not iPhone) kit.

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From what I understand the nike ipod hardware is not compatible with chirp -- an additional ANT+ "key" which plugs into the iPod/iPhone is required.

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Worse -- The Nike footpod isn't ANT+ or even a standard ANT device. It uses the same chipset as some other ANT devices, but doesn't talk to anything but a late model iPod Touch, iPhone, or the custom Nike dongle.

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I had to work in Roseville (CA) today and there's an REI there. I dropped by and picked up a Chirp. Yes, it's overpriced and I don't know if anybody other than myself has a Chirp capable unit in my area but..........

 

I may place a cache and leave an unactivated geocoin for the first Chirp capable cacher who visits it. I can put the coordinates and info for the coin into the Chirp and place it near the cache. It's a thought anyway.

Edited by Thrak

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Bottom line, I heard there are iphone apps that will play Wherigo cartrideges, but I searched and can't find them. What are their names?

 

I have scanned most of the posts in this long thread, but I was not able to come to a definite answer, is there an iphone app that will find Chirp? If so, what is it's name?

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From what I understand the nike ipod hardware is not compatible with chirp -- an additional ANT+ "key" which plugs into the iPod/iPhone is required.

 

My wife has the Nike+ipod foot module. This item works with the iPhone 3gs that she has, so the phone must have hardware that can receive data from the foot module. I haven't dug around in the docs, but there may be some kind of software interface to interact with the ANT module. Earlier iPods such as the nano (at least the one without the camera) require a module that plugs into the bottom connector. Doing so either activates the Nike software, or the device downloads the software from the plug in module.

 

Someone else has done some sniffing at the nike foot pod module - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2206823 shows what others have found. I can't vouch for this since I haven't done any Reverse Engineering on the thing. There don't appear to be any public interfaces to the ANT hardware in the IOS docs. For applications to be available to the App Store, the app must only use the documented interfaces, so I don't think we'll see chirp reading software on the app store unless Apple makes an interface to the hardware available. Maybe some clever hacker will make something that works on a jailbroken iPhone though.

 

Edit: although it uses the same hardware, further reading suggests that it's not really ANT hardware, so it looks like I'm wrong on this.

Edited by Ptpark

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