More Souvenirs on the way!

14k · October 19, 2010

I'd rather see souvenirs available to those that live in other parts of the world. So far the only souvenir that I've seen that isn't in the Puget Sound area was the GeoCoin fest in Minneapolis. How many geocachers in Europe, Austrailia, Asia, Africa, South America, and even the east coast of the U.S. do think will ever obtain souvenirs anytime soon other than the 10/10/10 souvenir? Granted, there are a few from far that were able to attend the big bash earlier this year and got the triad (and the special icons) but for probably well over 90% of all geocachers a 2500 miles trip to the pacific northwest to get the current souvenirs would be financially prohibitive.

I'd love to see a set of souvenirs that were granted at different numbers of countries and states cached in. I'd love to see many other landmarks get souvenirs, and then 'set' souvenirs created for 'landmarks of <insert country/region here>'. I could go on.

-Mekle

So would I, considering I've found caches in 21 states, and 10 countries on three continents and will likely have two more countries and two more continents by April. I also suggested establishing souvenirs in the various provinces in many other countries throughout the world. It's not just a North American game.

"I found a cache in Zimbabwe and got back out of the country before Robert Mugabe and his thugs got their paws on me." - you mean that sort of thing?

Well, yes, actually. It wasn't just a cache in Zimbabwe, and while I only spent about 3 hours in the country I did find a cache there. The cache was located at Victoria Falls. You've probably heard of the Seven Wonders of the World; there is also a Seven Natural Wonders of the World list and Victoria Falls is one of them. If souvenirs are ever awarded based on a wow factor that one would certainly qualify.

October 19, 2010

As someone living in Europe I find the souvenirs talked about so far completely irrelevant. (We have the 10-10-10, but big deal, everyone could get that - even without actually finding a cache). We will probably never go to the US, so souvenirs for parks, landmarks and states - what relevance do they have for us? It's just like the cache type icons we can never get...

Maybe at some point there will be souvenirs for every country in Europe to "satisfy" the European geocachers. But we already have stats on our profile that shows where we have been caching. I completely fail to see how souvenirs will add to the enjoyment of the game for us and many other non Americans.

From my point of view souvenirs are just one more thing made by Americans for Americans, so I couldn't care less about them.

However since Groundspeak puts some of their limited resources into making and awarding the souvenirs, I really hope someone enjoys them, though.

October 19, 2010

As someone living in Europe I find the souvenirs talked about so far completely irrelevant. (We have the 10-10-10, but big deal, everyone could get that - even without actually finding a cache). We will probably never go to the US, so souvenirs for parks, landmarks and states - what relevance do they have for us? It's just like the cache type icons we can never get...

Maybe at some point there will be souvenirs for every country in Europe to "satisfy" the European geocachers. But we already have stats on our profile that shows where we have been caching. I completely fail to see how souvenirs will add to the enjoyment of the game for us and many other non Americans.

From my point of view souvenirs are just one more thing made by Americans for Americans, so I couldn't care less about them.

However since Groundspeak puts some of their limited resources into making and awarding the souvenirs, I really hope someone enjoys them, though.

Why don't you come to the US for a visit. Its a large place, it would be hard to find a place you don't like.

:rolleyes:

14k · October 19, 2010

As someone living in Europe I find the souvenirs talked about so far completely irrelevant. (We have the 10-10-10, but big deal, everyone could get that - even without actually finding a cache). We will probably never go to the US, so souvenirs for parks, landmarks and states - what relevance do they have for us? It's just like the cache type icons we can never get...

Maybe at some point there will be souvenirs for every country in Europe to "satisfy" the European geocachers. But we already have stats on our profile that shows where we have been caching. I completely fail to see how souvenirs will add to the enjoyment of the game for us and many other non Americans.

From my point of view souvenirs are just one more thing made by Americans for Americans, so I couldn't care less about them.

However since Groundspeak puts some of their limited resources into making and awarding the souvenirs, I really hope someone enjoys them, though.

Why don't you come to the US for a visit. Its a large place, it would be hard to find a place you don't like.

Round trip airfare for two between the UK and Seattle is about $1630 if they were to come to the U.S. in February. It's also a 15 hour flight each way. Those that live within a stones throw of GS HQ can get several souvenirs in a day on a tank of gas. Does that seem equitable to you?

London is one of the biggest, most historical cities in the world. Wouldn't it make more sense to create a souvenir for London so that not only could BoMS get another souvenir but anyone else living within reasonable proximity could get that one too?

Edited October 19, 2010 by NYPaddleCacher

October 19, 2010

As someone living in Europe I find the souvenirs talked about so far completely irrelevant. (We have the 10-10-10, but big deal, everyone could get that - even without actually finding a cache). We will probably never go to the US, so souvenirs for parks, landmarks and states - what relevance do they have for us? It's just like the cache type icons we can never get...

Maybe at some point there will be souvenirs for every country in Europe to "satisfy" the European geocachers. But we already have stats on our profile that shows where we have been caching. I completely fail to see how souvenirs will add to the enjoyment of the game for us and many other non Americans.

From my point of view souvenirs are just one more thing made by Americans for Americans, so I couldn't care less about them.

However since Groundspeak puts some of their limited resources into making and awarding the souvenirs, I really hope someone enjoys them, though.

Why don't you come to the US for a visit. Its a large place, it would be hard to find a place you don't like.

Round trip airfare for two between the UK and Seattle is about $1630 if they were to come to the U.S. in February. It's also a 15 hour flight each way. Those that live within a stones throw of GS HQ can get several souvenirs in a day on a tank of gas. Does that seem equitable to you?

London is one of the biggest, most historical cities in the world. Wouldn't it make more sense to create a souvenir for London so that not only could BoMS get another souvenir but anyone else living within reasonable proximity could get that one too?

I never said anything about Seattle. I just said that instead of saying "We will never come to the US", perhaps they should give it a chance. Oh and according to kayak, you can get from London to Seattle for less than 800 USD. Less than of half of what you quoted.

But to answer your question: It depends. you get to visit a beautiful country and a beautiful state also. So you would not be spending the money for some souvs. The attitude just rubbed me the wrong way. Ground speak is located in OR, like it or hate it the center of the GC world is located there. No, thats not fair. Life is not fair, if it was Id be able to earn a locationless icon on my profile page. Thats just the way it is.

2.7k · October 19, 2010

Liking that Canadian Maple Leaf on the treasure chest. That mean's we should see at least one souv for Canucks (I hope!)

20.7k · October 19, 2010

I'd rather see souvenirs available to those that live in other parts of the world. So far the only souvenir that I've seen that isn't in the Puget Sound area was the GeoCoin fest in Minneapolis. How many geocachers in Europe, Austrailia, Asia, Africa, South America, and even the east coast of the U.S. do think will ever obtain souvenirs anytime soon other than the 10/10/10 souvenir? Granted, there are a few from far that were able to attend the big bash earlier this year and got the triad (and the special icons) but for probably well over 90% of all geocachers a 2500 miles trip to the pacific northwest to get the current souvenirs would be financially prohibitive.

I guess that you missed MissJenn's post just a few before yours:

From the relevant Knowledge Book article:

Keep in mind we're starting slow to make sure that our infrastructure can handle a lot of souvenirs before we release a large set of them.

Obviously, souvis will be released world-wide and many will be made retroactive.

Why can't people be a little patient?

Edited October 19, 2010 by sbell111

October 19, 2010

I'd rather see souvenirs available to those that live in other parts of the world. So far the only souvenir that I've seen that isn't in the Puget Sound area was the GeoCoin fest in Minneapolis. How many geocachers in Europe, Austrailia, Asia, Africa, South America, and even the east coast of the U.S. do think will ever obtain souvenirs anytime soon other than the 10/10/10 souvenir? Granted, there are a few from far that were able to attend the big bash earlier this year and got the triad (and the special icons) but for probably well over 90% of all geocachers a 2500 miles trip to the pacific northwest to get the current souvenirs would be financially prohibitive.

I guess that you missed MissJenn's post just a few before yours:

From the relevant Knowledge Book article:

Keep in mind we're starting slow to make sure that our infrastructure can handle a lot of souvenirs before we release a large set of them.

Obviously, aouvis will be released world-wide and many will be made retroactive.

Why can't people be a little patient?

And what miss out on a opportunity to wring ones hands and whine.

What are you thinking :rolleyes:

October 19, 2010

I never said anything about Seattle. I just said that instead of saying "We will never come to the US", perhaps they should give it a chance. Oh and according to kayak, you can get from London to Seattle for less than 800 USD. Less than of half of what you quoted.

Releasethedogs -

As another impoverished Brit, I read the original Brit's post about never getting to the US as "I'd love to but can't afford to" more than the "I wouldn’t visit America if you paid me” that you seemed to hear.

It really is prohibitively expensive nowadays to visit the States, sadly. The fare you quoted is not far off the $1600 for two people that NYPaddleCacher originally stated.

Add a couple of children to that equation (who have to pay full fare), and you are looking at $3000 just to get there, before worrying about the expense of hiring a car / somewhere to stay / food / etc.

A two week trip to the states for most families would cost at least $5000 (I speculatively priced up a trip to Florida last year for 2 kids 2 adults and couldn't get it below $9000, and that was going budget all the way apart, but did include theme park tickets etc)

I certainly don’t have that kind of cash spare, do you? If so, lucky you!

But I will keep playing the Lottery, and maybe one day you’ll see me logging the trifecta :rolleyes:

Back on topic – I don’t have any problem with the area around Groundspeak HQ having some extra souvenirs – that’s a nice additional reward for anyone who goes to the trouble of making the pilgrimage. But I’d also like to see more acknowledgement of the “rest of the world” in plans for souvenirs - I expect/hope a more world-wide view will roll out eventually.

2.1k · October 19, 2010

Those that live within a stones throw of GS HQ can get several souvenirs in a day on a tank of gas. Does that seem equitable to you?

No, that doesn't seem equitable to me.

On the other hand, it doesn't seem equitable that I got Mel Gibson's temper but not his looks; and Mel Brooks' looks, but not his sense of humor.

4.1k · October 19, 2010

It's not just a North American game.

Zounds!

Thanks for telling me. :rolleyes:

14k · October 19, 2010

As someone living in Europe I find the souvenirs talked about so far completely irrelevant. (We have the 10-10-10, but big deal, everyone could get that - even without actually finding a cache). We will probably never go to the US, so souvenirs for parks, landmarks and states - what relevance do they have for us? It's just like the cache type icons we can never get...

Maybe at some point there will be souvenirs for every country in Europe to "satisfy" the European geocachers. But we already have stats on our profile that shows where we have been caching. I completely fail to see how souvenirs will add to the enjoyment of the game for us and many other non Americans.

From my point of view souvenirs are just one more thing made by Americans for Americans, so I couldn't care less about them.

However since Groundspeak puts some of their limited resources into making and awarding the souvenirs, I really hope someone enjoys them, though.

Why don't you come to the US for a visit. Its a large place, it would be hard to find a place you don't like.

Round trip airfare for two between the UK and Seattle is about $1630 if they were to come to the U.S. in February. It's also a 15 hour flight each way. Those that live within a stones throw of GS HQ can get several souvenirs in a day on a tank of gas. Does that seem equitable to you?

London is one of the biggest, most historical cities in the world. Wouldn't it make more sense to create a souvenir for London so that not only could BoMS get another souvenir but anyone else living within reasonable proximity could get that one too?

I never said anything about Seattle. I just said that instead of saying "We will never come to the US", perhaps they should give it a chance. Oh and according to kayak, you can get from London to Seattle for less than 800 USD. Less than of half of what you quoted.

I used Seattle as an example because that's where most of the current souvenirs are available. If you read my sentence again, the amount I quoted was for two people. I also specified a specific date range, because it was a date range that I've used for recent airfare searches. That date range occurs at a time when my son is off of school. While I could search for airfares without specifying a date, in reality I think that's impractical.

But to answer your question: It depends. you get to visit a beautiful country and a beautiful state also. So you would not be spending the money for some souvs.

There's lots of other reasons to visit the U.S., and I'll admit that the pacific northwest is one of them. I wasn't suggesting traveling to the U.S. just to pick up some souvenirs, but the cost of traveling from the U.K., and even the eastern U.S. is significant. When someone writes "We will never come to the US" I suspect that one of the reasons is that it's financially prohibitive. I can safely say that up until a couple months ago I could have said, "I will never visit China", with a pretty good probability that it would have been true. However, that changed when I got an invitation to deliver a keynote speech at a symposium about a week and a half from now, and the only reason that I was able to accept was because they're footing the bill for all my travel expenses.

The attitude just rubbed me the wrong way. Ground speak is located in OR, like it or hate it the center of the GC world is located there. No, thats not fair. Life is not fair, if it was Id be able to earn a locationless icon on my profile page. Thats just the way it is.

This has nothing to do with fairness. It has nothing to do with where GS HQ is located. It's about making the features that GS provides as equitable as possible to all geocachers.

1.4k · October 19, 2010

The other way, and how I got mine, were merely turning on my phone, and *attempting* to search for a geocache on 10-10-10. I didn't actually get any results (the app reported a server connection error) but a minute later I was informed I "found" a souvenir. That's the part I don't get.

That was a fun little gift from Groundspeak simply to commemorate 10-10-10. Thanks for using the iPhone app!

I am still up in the air about how I personally feel about getting these myself. However, I am beginning to like the idea.

If I decide this is something I would like to keep track of, is there going to be anyway to delete the ones we get, we feel we don't deserve?

I got one for logging on 10/10/10 but I wasn't able to get out that day. If I am getting souvenirs I never earned, it will be a little hard to enjoy those I did.

20.7k · October 19, 2010

The other way, and how I got mine, were merely turning on my phone, and *attempting* to search for a geocache on 10-10-10. I didn't actually get any results (the app reported a server connection error) but a minute later I was informed I "found" a souvenir. That's the part I don't get.

That was a fun little gift from Groundspeak simply to commemorate 10-10-10. Thanks for using the iPhone app!

I am still up in the air about how I personally feel about getting these myself. However, I am beginning to like the idea.

If I decide this is something I would like to keep track of, is there going to be anyway to delete the ones we get, we feel we don't deserve?

I got one for logging on 10/10/10 but I wasn't able to get out that day. If I am getting souvenirs I never earned, it will be a little hard to enjoy those I did.

Back when I was in service, I remember that maintenance people would often be called out to fix something on our aircraft. About half the time, they ended up affixing a sticker over the top of the guage/light that was announcing the problem, declaring the machine safe, and going on their way.

Therefore, my best advice to you is to stick a piece of masking tape on your monitor, covering up the offending souvi. :rolleyes:

Edited October 19, 2010 by sbell111

October 19, 2010

But to answer your question: It depends. you get to visit a beautiful country and a beautiful state also. So you would not be spending the money for some souvs. The attitude just rubbed me the wrong way. Ground speak is located in OR, like it or hate it the center of the GC world is located there. No, thats not fair. Life is not fair, if it was Id be able to earn a locationless icon on my profile page. Thats just the way it is.

I did say that we will probably never visit the US. It's not because we don't want to, it's the cost of going that's an obstacle. And I believe it's even more expensive to travel from Denmark to the states than it is to travel from London. I didn't mean to rub anybody the wrong way. I was only trying to convey that from my point of view the souvenirs don't seem to have been created with others than North Americans in mind. It has nothing to do with fairness, but when I observe that TPTB put effort into something that seems utterly irrelevant, while they at the same time does nothing about relevant issues it leaves me feeling disgruntled.

Back on topic – I don’t have any problem with the area around Groundspeak HQ having some extra souvenirs – that’s a nice additional reward for anyone who goes to the trouble of making the pilgrimage. But I’d also like to see more acknowledgement of the “rest of the world” in plans for souvenirs - I expect/hope a more world-wide view will roll out eventually.

Given that the souvenirs are here and probably here to stay, I agree.

\Mette

Edited October 19, 2010 by BoMS

10.1k · October 19, 2010

Good news! We have retroactively granted souvenirs to those who are entitled to them!

Yes! I have not gotten my APE souvenir yet! Special vacation trip to Maryland in 2005 for the APE cache. Boo hoo. I'm not entitled to it?!?

I hope you get one. An Ape cache is an Ape cache, all finders of Ape caches should get a souvenir. Maybe a different souvenir for the different APE caches? (we got ours for the Washington APE cache, but had also found the Illinois one in 2005)

Jen

Nope. It would appear that only Washigton APE cache finders are entitled. Guess souvenirs are mostly for Seattle cachers. Oh, well. Guess I should opt out of them, and I won't be disappointed by unfulfilled promises.

20.7k · October 20, 2010

Good news! We have retroactively granted souvenirs to those who are entitled to them!

Yes! I have not gotten my APE souvenir yet! Special vacation trip to Maryland in 2005 for the APE cache. Boo hoo. I'm not entitled to it?!?

I hope you get one. An Ape cache is an Ape cache, all finders of Ape caches should get a souvenir. Maybe a different souvenir for the different APE caches? (we got ours for the Washington APE cache, but had also found the Illinois one in 2005)

Jen

Nope. It would appear that only Washigton APE cache finders are entitled. Guess souvenirs are mostly for Seattle cachers. Oh, well. Guess I should opt out of them, and I won't be disappointed by unfulfilled promises.

Keep reading.

1.5k · October 20, 2010

The other way, and how I got mine, were merely turning on my phone, and *attempting* to search for a geocache on 10-10-10. I didn't actually get any results (the app reported a server connection error) but a minute later I was informed I "found" a souvenir. That's the part I don't get.

That was a fun little gift from Groundspeak simply to commemorate 10-10-10. Thanks for using the iPhone app!

I'm still wondering why we haven't received the 10-10-10 souvenir....I used my iphone app in Las Vegas that day.....nothing for us!

20.7k · October 20, 2010

... I was only trying to convey that from my point of view the souvenirs don't seem to have been created with others than North Americans in mind.

You have to keep in mind that souvis are only just being rolled out. Since initial testing was done in one small area of the US, those souvis that were initially brought online are only in that area. I have little doubt that once the rollout is more complete, you will see that they do cover all areas.

It has nothing to do with fairness, but when I observe that TPTB put effort into something that seems utterly irrelevant, while they at the same time does nothing about relevant issues it leaves me feeling disgruntled.

At my job, we have people working on all manner of projects. As projects are completed, they are implemented. Often times, one team will still be working on a priority project when another team completes a project of less importance. When this happens, we don't delay implementation of the minor project until the major one is completed by another team. That would be silly.

My point is that GS doesn't consist of three guys working a single project. It is no doubt true that other people are working on their own projects while this one was being developed. Complaining that this feature was introduced prior to the implementation of any of our personal desires makes no sense.

Just out of curiosity, what are the 'relevant issues' that you would have preferred that they resolved first?

1.8k · October 20, 2010

Good news! We have retroactively granted souvenirs to those who are entitled to them!

Hi James -

I notice that folks who found Project APE caches other than the one in Washington, didn't get the Project APE cache souvenir. Are there plans to roll that out any time soon?

Thanks.

Hi James -

Just checking in again, maybe for some clarification? Can you tell us if the Project APE souvenir is intended only for people who found the APE cache near HQ, or if it's intended for anyone who has logged any of the APE caches that were originally listed? The souvenir listing mentions multiple caches, but the artwork clearly represents the Washington cache. Given that only finders of Mission 9 have received the souvenir, I was just wondering if anyone could fill us in. I don't think there's any problem with a gradual roll-out, it's just that at this time it's not clear if people who found other APE caches should be expecting anything in the future, or if it was always intended only for the cache that represents the Eastern leg of the "Trinity".

Any guidance you could return on this would be great.

October 20, 2010

... I was only trying to convey that from my point of view the souvenirs don't seem to have been created with others than North Americans in mind.
You have to keep in mind that souvis are only just being rolled out. Since initial testing was done in one small area of the US, those souvis that were initially brought online are only in that area. I have little doubt that once the rollout is more complete, you will see that they do cover all areas.
It has nothing to do with fairness, but when I observe that TPTB put effort into something that seems utterly irrelevant, while they at the same time does nothing about relevant issues it leaves me feeling disgruntled.
At my job, we have people working on all manner of projects. As projects are completed, they are implemented. Often times, one team will still be working on a priority project when another team completes a project of less importance. When this happens, we don't delay implementation of the minor project until the major one is completed by another team. That would be silly.

My point is that GS doesn't consist of three guys working a single project. It is no doubt true that other people are working on their own projects while this one was being developed. Complaining that this feature was introduced prior to the implementation of any of our personal desires makes no sense.

Just out of curiosity, what are the 'relevant issues' that you would have preferred that they resolved first?

Just guessing here, but I also suspect that they pushed the release for 10-10-10. They were already encouraging people to log a cache that day to break a record, and probably figured giving a souvi for it would be a fun way to introduce them. Somehow I doubt they expected so much angst so soon.

I for one like the idea of the souvenirs. No, I didn't ask for it, and yes there are a lot of feature requests on the feedback site. But few, if any, of those suggestions are what I'd call vital to geocaching.

14k · October 20, 2010

... I was only trying to convey that from my point of view the souvenirs don't seem to have been created with others than North Americans in mind.
You have to keep in mind that souvis are only just being rolled out. Since initial testing was done in one small area of the US, those souvis that were initially brought online are only in that area. I have little doubt that once the rollout is more complete, you will see that they do cover all areas.
It has nothing to do with fairness, but when I observe that TPTB put effort into something that seems utterly irrelevant, while they at the same time does nothing about relevant issues it leaves me feeling disgruntled.
At my job, we have people working on all manner of projects. As projects are completed, they are implemented. Often times, one team will still be working on a priority project when another team completes a project of less importance. When this happens, we don't delay implementation of the minor project until the major one is completed by another team. That would be silly.

That's understandable. As someone that also often has quite a few projects on my plate at any given time there is a matter of setting priorities, and for the geeky among use "context-switching" between projects as necessary. Sometimes that means working on a lower priority project just to get it off my plate so that I can spend uninterrupted time on another. Sometimes it means not spending time working on a project if there are dependencies from others collaborating on the project. As you imply though, just because we're seeing the result of work on the souvenirs project now doesn't necessarily man that work on other projects is being neglected entirely. At least, that's what we can hope for.

My point is that GS doesn't consist of three guys working a single project. It is no doubt true that other people are working on their own projects while this one was being developed. Complaining that this feature was introduced prior to the implementation of any of our personal desires makes no sense.

I can make some sense of it.

Awhile back I was in a meeting and there was a bit of small talk prior to the meeting getting started and this guy mentioned an interview that he saw with Craig Newmark, the founder of craiglist. Craig was asked, "Why don't you have advertisements on your web site?", and he responded: "Our users haven't asked for them?"

If GS is setting priorities such that work is being done on projects that GS *thinks* their users want, rather than what there users have asked for, then I think we have every right to complain.

20.7k · October 20, 2010

My point is that GS doesn't consist of three guys working a single project. It is no doubt true that other people are working on their own projects while this one was being developed. Complaining that this feature was introduced prior to the implementation of any of our personal desires makes no sense.
I can make some sense of it.

Awhile back I was in a meeting and there was a bit of small talk prior to the meeting getting started and this guy mentioned an interview that he saw with Craig Newmark, the founder of craiglist. Craig was asked, "Why don't you have advertisements on your web site?", and he responded: "Our users haven't asked for them?"

If GS is setting priorities such that work is being done on projects that GS *thinks* their users want, rather than what there users have asked for, then I think we have every right to complain.

Another thought is that Newmark was making a joke.

It should be mentioned that in the same interview he stated that revenue maximization is not the goal of Craigslist and Craigslist already generates bucketloads of revenue without these ads. Craigslist's current revune generation methods works for them. They see no reason to change it, so he made a joke.

Edited October 20, 2010 by sbell111

7.5k · October 20, 2010

My point is that GS doesn't consist of three guys working a single project. It is no doubt true that other people are working on their own projects while this one was being developed. Complaining that this feature was introduced prior to the implementation of any of our personal desires makes no sense.
I can make some sense of it.

Awhile back I was in a meeting and there was a bit of small talk prior to the meeting getting started and this guy mentioned an interview that he saw with Craig Newmark, the founder of craiglist. Craig was asked, "Why don't you have advertisements on your web site?", and he responded: "Our users haven't asked for them?"

If GS is setting priorities such that work is being done on projects that GS *thinks* their users want, rather than what there users have asked for, then I think we have every right to complain.

Another thought is that Newmark was making a joke.

It should be mentioned that in the same interview he stated that revenue maximization is not the goal of Craigslist and Craigslist already generates bucketloads of revenue without these ads. Craigslist's current revune generation methods works for them. They see no reason to change it, so he made a joke.

Maybe they really are thinking about what their users want and don't consider it a joke. It appears that adding more revenue to the coffers does not outweigh keeping their users happy.

1.8k · October 20, 2010

Would be nice to see: One for the ET Trail and another for The ET Head

4.2k · October 20, 2010

Maybe they really are thinking about what their users want and don't consider it a joke. It appears that adding more revenue to the coffers does not outweigh keeping their users happy.

Let's compare how Craig's List makes their money to how Groundspeak would hypothetically make money off of Souvenirs, shall we?

Craig's list:

...paid job ads in select cities – $75 per ad for the San Francisco Bay Area; $25 per ad for New York City, Los Angeles, San Diego, Boston, Seattle, Washington D.C., Chicago, Philadelphia, Orange County (California) and Portland, Oregon – and paid broker apartment listings in New York City ($10 per ad).

Groundspeak:

...buckets of cash delivered by albino mice wearing gold slippers in exchange for an associated Souvenir graphic to be linked to a select event.

Paid job ads in select cities vs. paid souvenirs for select events.

By Jove! These two things appear on the surface to be familiar! It seems that both Craig's List and Groundspeak do indeed wish to make profit.

Astounding! Zounds! Glockenspiel!

*The preceding post was edited in the hopes that everybody would better understand it. I also added more sarcasm and more glockenspiel.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Castle Mischief

6.7k · October 20, 2010

I like them!

Reminds me of our old Navy cruise jackets.

I wish I still had mine.

Image - not mine:

I could totally see doing a geocaching jacket with souvenirs on it!

Edited October 20, 2010 by TheAlabamaRambler

20.7k · October 20, 2010

Maybe they really are thinking about what their users want and don't consider it a joke. It appears that adding more revenue to the coffers does not outweigh keeping their users happy.

And what's the model for revenue on Craig's List...?

...paid job ads in select cities – $75 per ad for the San Francisco Bay Area; $25 per ad for New York City, Los Angeles, San Diego, Boston, Seattle, Washington D.C., Chicago, Philadelphia, Orange County (California) and Portland, Oregon – and paid broker apartment listings in New York City ($10 per ad).

Yeah. Kind of like how Groundspeak would potentially make money off of Souvenirs- a "listing" of a select category of "find" if you will.

I think that analogy is a huge stretch, especially considering the large amount of categories that Craigslist doesn't charge for.

October 20, 2010

... I was only trying to convey that from my point of view the souvenirs don't seem to have been created with others than North Americans in mind.
You have to keep in mind that souvis are only just being rolled out. Since initial testing was done in one small area of the US, those souvis that were initially brought online are only in that area. I have little doubt that once the rollout is more complete, you will see that they do cover all areas.
It has nothing to do with fairness, but when I observe that TPTB put effort into something that seems utterly irrelevant, while they at the same time does nothing about relevant issues it leaves me feeling disgruntled.
At my job, we have people working on all manner of projects. As projects are completed, they are implemented. Often times, one team will still be working on a priority project when another team completes a project of less importance. When this happens, we don't delay implementation of the minor project until the major one is completed by another team. That would be silly.

My point is that GS doesn't consist of three guys working a single project. It is no doubt true that other people are working on their own projects while this one was being developed. Complaining that this feature was introduced prior to the implementation of any of our personal desires makes no sense.

Just out of curiosity, what are the 'relevant issues' that you would have preferred that they resolved first?

I know that souvenirs are just being rolled out. But the lists of planned souvenirs posted so far contains very little of interest for someone outside the US.

I see your point of having different people working on different things getting ready at different times and getting released accordingly. However I think the priorities are wrong. Having someone working on souvenirs and at the same time abandoning the feedback site is ridiculous in my opinion. Having someone from Groundspeak spending as little as half an hour each day going through, replying to and setting the status of the ideas on the feedback site would make things there so much better, but apparently no one has any time or desire to do so.

Relevant issues according to me is showing the users of the feedback site some respect by giving answers and working on solutions for the problems listed and implementations of the accepted/planned ideas.

\Mette

4.2k · October 20, 2010

Maybe they really are thinking about what their users want and don't consider it a joke. It appears that adding more revenue to the coffers does not outweigh keeping their users happy.

And what's the model for revenue on Craig's List...?

...paid job ads in select cities – $75 per ad for the San Francisco Bay Area; $25 per ad for New York City, Los Angeles, San Diego, Boston, Seattle, Washington D.C., Chicago, Philadelphia, Orange County (California) and Portland, Oregon – and paid broker apartment listings in New York City ($10 per ad).

Yeah. Kind of like how Groundspeak would potentially make money off of Souvenirs- a "listing" of a select category of "find" if you will.

I think that analogy is a huge stretch, especially considering the large amount of categories that Craigslist doesn't charge for.

I think it's pretty much on target considering the ENOURMOUS amount of cache listings that Groundspeak doesn't charge for- hence the "select category" verbiage.

Dude, I was agreeing with you. You don't always have to chime in to tell me how wrong I am. Sheesh.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Castle Mischief

October 20, 2010

Hi James -

Just checking in again, maybe for some clarification? Can you tell us if the Project APE souvenir is intended only for people who found the APE cache near HQ, or if it's intended for anyone who has logged any of the APE caches that were originally listed? The souvenir listing mentions multiple caches, but the artwork clearly represents the Washington cache. Given that only finders of Mission 9 have received the souvenir, I was just wondering if anyone could fill us in. I don't think there's any problem with a gradual roll-out, it's just that at this time it's not clear if people who found other APE caches should be expecting anything in the future, or if it was always intended only for the cache that represents the Eastern leg of the "Trinity".

Any guidance you could return on this would be great.

Addisonbr,

Presently the Project APE souvenir is for mission 9, to be a part of the triad. We will keep you posted if other Project APE caches receive souvenirs in the future.

I hope this helps.

1.8k · October 20, 2010

Addisonbr,

Presently the Project APE souvenir is for mission 9, to be a part of the triad. We will keep you posted if other Project APE caches receive souvenirs in the future.

I hope this helps.

It does help, thanks for your reply.

If I might make a suggestion - perhaps changing the name of this Souvenir would make things less confusing. Call it the "Project A.P.E. Cache - Tunnel of Light" or something similar. Otherwise there is nothing to indicate that it's only for one specific cache. The "Additional Information" part of the listing specifically mentions that there were fourteen Project A.P.E. caches, which would lead a lot of reasonable people to believe that finding any of them would qualify you for the "Project A.P.E. Cache" souvenir.

I know that overwhelmingly, most people who have found an A.P.E. cache have found Mission 9, but I know at least two active cachers who found different A.P.E.'s without finding the one near Groundspeak HQ.

1.4k · October 20, 2010

I like them!

Reminds me of our old Navy cruise jackets.

I wish I still had mine.

Image - not mine:

I could totally see doing a geocaching jacket with souvenirs on it!

I haven't thought about the Navy cruise jackets for years. I remember them well, and had thought about getting one back in the day. However, at the time I felt it just wasn't something I would wear.

Now I wish I had got one, even if I had never wore it. What a great souvenir that would be to have now.

I think such a thing might be fun to have for Geocaching. However, it might be better to have patches available that you could just sew on a jean jacket. That way you could update your jacket as you get new souvenirs.

20.7k · October 20, 2010

I know that souvenirs are just being rolled out. But the lists of planned souvenirs posted so far contains very little of interest for someone outside the US.

I suspect that you've just hit on the reason that MissJenn asked us not to post that list. It's so incomplete that people cannot rely on it to be an accurate representation of the actual regions covered by souvis.

I see your point of having different people working on different things getting ready at different times and getting released accordingly. However I think the priorities are wrong. Having someone working on souvenirs and at the same time abandoning the feedback site is ridiculous in my opinion.

It is my understanding that the feedback site has not been abandoned. They did go from one site to another a while back, but that's not the same thing.

Having someone from Groundspeak spending as little as half an hour each day going through, replying to and setting the status of the ideas on the feedback site would make things there so much better, but apparently no one has any time or desire to do so.

Relevant issues according to me is showing the users of the feedback site some respect by giving answers and working on solutions for the problems listed and implementations of the accepted/planned ideas.

To be honest, it's not really easy to track comments by lackeys over at teh feedback site, but a quick peek shows that Jeremy has responded to issues presented and completed associated projects within the last day.

Maybe they really are thinking about what their users want and don't consider it a joke. It appears that adding more revenue to the coffers does not outweigh keeping their users happy.
And what's the model for revenue on Craig's List...?
...paid job ads in select cities – $75 per ad for the San Francisco Bay Area; $25 per ad for New York City, Los Angeles, San Diego, Boston, Seattle, Washington D.C., Chicago, Philadelphia, Orange County (California) and Portland, Oregon – and paid broker apartment listings in New York City ($10 per ad).
Yeah. Kind of like how Groundspeak would potentially make money off of Souvenirs- a "listing" of a select category of "find" if you will.
I think that analogy is a huge stretch, especially considering the large amount of categories that Craigslist doesn't charge for.
I think it's pretty much on target considering the ENOURMOUS amount of cache listings that Groundspeak doesn't charge for- hence the "select category" verbiage.

Dude, I was agreeing with you. You don't always have to chime in to tell me how wrong I am. Sheesh.

You were agreeing with me? In that case, I am unable to define your position based solely on your posts.

14k · October 20, 2010

My point is that GS doesn't consist of three guys working a single project. It is no doubt true that other people are working on their own projects while this one was being developed. Complaining that this feature was introduced prior to the implementation of any of our personal desires makes no sense.
I can make some sense of it.

Awhile back I was in a meeting and there was a bit of small talk prior to the meeting getting started and this guy mentioned an interview that he saw with Craig Newmark, the founder of craiglist. Craig was asked, "Why don't you have advertisements on your web site?", and he responded: "Our users haven't asked for them?"

If GS is setting priorities such that work is being done on projects that GS *thinks* their users want, rather than what there users have asked for, then I think we have every right to complain.

Another thought is that Newmark was making a joke.

It should be mentioned that in the same interview he stated that revenue maximization is not the goal of Craigslist and Craigslist already generates bucketloads of revenue without these ads. Craigslist's current revune generation methods works for them. They see no reason to change it, so he made a joke.

Whether it''s a joke or not is irrelevant. It's merely an anecdote that I included to illustrate a point; that customer satisfaction can be attributed to whether a software vendor develops features which customers actually ask for and want, or develops (or at least places a higher priority) on what the software vendor *thinks* customers want.

There has been some criticism about souvenirs that GS is basically following a trend that other social media apps like Gowalla, Four Square, etc. have implemented which produces usage driven digital awards. For example, Gowalla, has the notion of a "passport". It will award "pins" upon the first visit to a U.S. state, and there others that can be acquired simple by "checking in" at lots of locations. For example, check in at five different locations and you'll get a "Wanderer" pin. Sounds a lot like souvenirs. There are lots of other location based social media games that have something similar. If some of Groundspeaks customers feel that GS is jumping on the bandwagon and not providing features that they, as paying customers, ask for I think they're perfectly justified in complaining.

Frankly, I think souvenirs make a sense for a site like geocaching.com. I just don't exactly agree with how they've been implemented.

4.2k · October 20, 2010

You were agreeing with me? In that case, I am unable to define your position based solely on your posts.

Shall I type slower then?

4.2k · October 20, 2010

If some of Groundspeaks customers feel that GS is jumping on the bandwagon and not providing features that they, as paying customers, ask for I think they're perfectly justified in complaining.

I'm not trying to be jerk here, but what features, specifically, are you talking about. The way I see it, for every feature that's been requested by a vocal group there's a matching group that has be-moaned the concept just as loudly.

Rating system? It's either the best idea ever (every time it comes up) or The End of the Game as We Know It depending on who you ask.

Ignore all caches by user? Sounds good to me... or is it The End of the Community as We Know It?

Face it, you forum people ( ) will complain about anything.

Souvenirs are something that nobody has asked for, but at the same time nobody has been posting for years about how much they would Destroy the Game as We Know It either. Sounds like the safest plan of action to me.

20.7k · October 20, 2010

You were agreeing with me? In that case, I am unable to define your position based solely on your posts.

Shall I type slower then?

Another method would be to craft your posts so that they are more clear.

Edited October 20, 2010 by sbell111

7.5k · October 20, 2010

If some of Groundspeaks customers feel that GS is jumping on the bandwagon and not providing features that they, as paying customers, ask for I think they're perfectly justified in complaining.

I'm not trying to be jerk here, but what features, specifically, are you talking about. The way I see it, for every feature that's been requested by a vocal group there's a matching group that has be-moaned the concept just as loudly.

Rating system? It's either the best idea ever (every time it comes up) or The End of the Game as We Know It depending on who you ask.

Ignore all caches by user? Sounds good to me... or is it The End of the Community as We Know It?

Face it, you forum people ( ) will complain about anything.

Souvenirs are something that nobody has asked for, but at the same time nobody has been posting for years about how much they would Destroy the Game as We Know It either. Sounds like the safest plan of action to me.

It's about options.

Rating system....give us the option, if you don't want a rating system don't use it, but don't deny it to the rest of us. Ignore all cachers...if you don't want to ignore a cacher, don't use it. But don't deny it to those who would find it useful. Souvenirs...make it an option, so that those of us who don't want the tab don't have to have the tab.

4.2k · October 20, 2010

You were agreeing with me? In that case, I am unable to define your position based solely on your posts.

Shall I type slower then?

Another method would be to craft your posts so that they are more clear.

Try it now Steve-O.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Castle Mischief

October 21, 2010

I know that souvenirs are just being rolled out. But the lists of planned souvenirs posted so far contains very little of interest for someone outside the US.
I suspect that you've just hit on the reason that MissJenn asked us not to post that list. It's so incomplete that people cannot rely on it to be an accurate representation of the actual regions covered by souvis.

Hmmm...maybe you're right...

I see your point of having different people working on different things getting ready at different times and getting released accordingly. However I think the priorities are wrong. Having someone working on souvenirs and at the same time abandoning the feedback site is ridiculous in my opinion.
It is my understanding that the feedback site has not been abandoned. They did go from one site to another a while back, but that's not the same thing.

I'm talking about the new feedback site (UserVoice) being abandoned.

Having someone from Groundspeak spending as little as half an hour each day going through, replying to and setting the status of the ideas on the feedback site would make things there so much better, but apparently no one has any time or desire to do so.

Relevant issues according to me is showing the users of the feedback site some respect by giving answers and working on solutions for the problems listed and implementations of the accepted/planned ideas.

To be honest, it's not really easy to track comments by lackeys over at teh feedback site, but a quick peek shows that Jeremy has responded to issues presented and completed associated projects within the last day.

Really? Let's hope it's a new trend then. It doesn't change the fact that there has been next to no activity from Groundspeak on the feedback site for a very long time.

\Mette

20.7k · October 21, 2010

You were agreeing with me? In that case, I am unable to define your position based solely on your posts.

Shall I type slower then?

Another method would be to craft your posts so that they are more clear.

Try it now Steve-O.

Thanks. I getcha now.

2.3k · November 19, 2010

When I visit a place I rarely bring back souvenirs.

So I hope you can understand my feelings upon them being forced upon me.

So. Is there a way to delete souveneirs from my profile page.

I have at least 1 that has no relevance to a place I've been caching.

Thanks.

Edited November 19, 2010 by currykev

4.2k · November 19, 2010

When I visit a place I rarely bring back souvenirs.

So I hope you can understand my feelings upon them being forced upon me.

So. Is there a way to delete souveneirs from my profile page.

I have at least 1 that has no relevance to a place I've been caching.

Thanks.

Good grief.

5.7k · November 22, 2010

When I visit a place I rarely bring back souvenirs.

So I hope you can understand my feelings upon them being forced upon me.

<_<

Some fragile folks around here. Someone on the feedback site was "molested" by souvenirs, you make it sound like a souvenir actually jumped out of the bushes and tried to have its way with you.

Apparently an opt out is on the way. Until then, recommend you make an effort to get on with your life.

(Or just lock yourself in a closet and don't log any more caches until you feel you are safe from any more dreaded souvenirs forcing themselves on you. Better safe than sorry.)

Edited November 22, 2010 by hzoi

3.8k · November 22, 2010

When I visit a place I rarely bring back souvenirs.

So I hope you can understand my feelings upon them being forced upon me.

Some fragile folks around here. Someone on the feedback site was "molested" by souvenirs, you make it sound like a souvenir actually jumped out of the bushes and tried to have its way with you.

Apparently an opt out is on the way. Until then, recommend you make an effort to get on with your life.

(Or just lock yourself in a closet and don't log any more caches until you feel you are safe from any more dreaded souvenirs forcing themselves on you. Better safe than sorry.)

<_< :rolleyes: Thanks, loved it.

2.7k · November 22, 2010

(Or just lock yourself in a closet and don't log any more caches until you feel you are safe from any more dreaded souvenirs forcing themselves on you. Better safe than sorry.)

Leave your laptop / smartphone / cache printouts outside of the closet too. You never know.

5.7k · November 23, 2010

(Or just lock yourself in a closet and don't log any more caches until you feel you are safe from any more dreaded souvenirs forcing themselves on you. Better safe than sorry.)

Leave your laptop / smartphone / cache printouts outside of the closet too. You never know.

Good point. But, you know, that might not be enough. Here's an interim souvenir opt-out method that might work for folks:

November 24, 2010

You can see my souvenirs on my profile page, lachupa. That's all you get for now.

Que the dramatic music....

I loved seeing all the souvenirs on your profile. It was fun and interesting!

November 24, 2010

Is there any place keeping track of all of these? Like a wiki or a thread somewhere?

PS How long should we wait for the souvenirs to pop up? I drove to Seattle and paid for parking to get one of the crush caches and never got the souvenir :unsure: Which, obviously, in the long run, isn't a big deal, but figured I'd ask...

More Souvenirs on the way!

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