The Bad Side of Town

[+LordKinbote]

I was recently reading a thread where someone mentioned geocaching in Detroit and how if you were unsure of where the bad part of town was, the lack of geocaches in a fairly expansive part of town was a good indicator.

 

I started to wonder if that was true for other cities. I checked Omaha, where I currently live. Sure enough, there is a distinct caching void located on the east side of town north of Dodge St, which is considered the sketchier neighborhood.

 

So...is a geocaching map in your area a good way to tell where the good and bad parts of the city are? Anyone use a geocaching map not to cache, but to know where and where not to travel?

[+ZeLonewolf]

I was recently reading a thread where someone mentioned geocaching in Detroit and how if you were unsure of where the bad part of town was, the lack of geocaches in a fairly expansive part of town was a good indicator.

 

I started to wonder if that was true for other cities.

 

It's definitely true.

 

South Providence is the area between Route 10 and Route 95:

http://www.geocaching.com/map/default.aspx...;zm=13&mt=m

 

However, a lack of geocaches can be for many other reasons.

Edited October 12, 2010 by ZeLonewolf

[+lachupa]

That is a funny observation.

 

It could be true to an extent. When I look in my town for caches to go find there are a few in areas of town I'd rather not go to but not that many. I certainly wouldn't hide one where it might lure innocent people from out of town to.

 

As a side note, I'm training for a marathon. I'm up to runs of between 17 & 20 miles. Its not that easy to map out 20 miles without ending up somewhere sketchy. I had one all drawn up and my boss saw it on my desk and vetoed it. The really odd thing is that when we were trying to figure out alternate routes the street he had me run down was about two blocks away from the one he said I should stay off of and where I ended up was a road with some of the nicest, most expensive houses in the city.

 

go figure

[+Ecylram]

It's fairly true in Denver, though I hesitate to say 'bad area' as our bad area's are mild in comparison to other cities.

 

The areas north of downtown Denver and just east of Fitzsimmons are sparse; some of those areas are warehouse districts. I can attest that some of those caches in the area are NOT "good" caches - trash-strewn lots, under rocks by warehouses, etc.

 

There are several good reasons for this in my opinion. First, many of these areas just aren't attractive to place caches - warehouse districts, weed filled lots, homeless hangout parks, drug dealing locations, and that there probably aren't many geocachers in the poorest neighborhoods.

 

On the flip side, in Denver the very wealthy neighborhoods, while having more caches than the poorest neighborhoods, do have fewer caches. I attribute this to gated communities, fewer public parks, lower population density, and possibly less geocachers (as a percentage of the population).

[+somegeek]

I'm up to runs of between 17 & 20 miles. Its not that easy to map out 20 miles without ending up somewhere sketchy. I had one all drawn up and my boss saw it on my desk and vetoed it.

 

There is an upside to running or riding a road bike in sketchy parts of town... you're inspired to run faster/train harder.

[MisterEFQ]

I live in Long Beach, ca few miles away from Compton, which gets a badder wrap than it deserves, but still isnt a great neigborhood. This is a large section of that city that only has one virtual, and that extends east towards Paramount (not a great area either). If you look at the cities around it, you notice alot more caches.

 

Same goes for the worse parts of Long Beach.

 

 

Im still going to go get that virtual soon. Cache during the day and show respect and most of the time you will be fine.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Actually, I noticed this looking at caches nearby. Bed-Stuy and East New York do not look like fun places to visit.

 

[+Merchant Adventurers]

Hah! I was wondering why there were so few caches in Fairview when Halifax is otherwise totally saturated, and now I understand why. It totally fits that pattern.

[+michigansnorkelers]

Speaking of Detroit, I'm sure there are at least SOME homes that have not burned to the ground in these 64 square miles. And this is less than 15 miles from home!

 

Edited October 13, 2010 by michigansnorkelers

[+Ecylram]

I live in Long Beach, ca few miles away from Compton, which gets a badder wrap than it deserves, but still isnt a great neigborhood. This is a large section of that city that only has one virtual, and that extends east towards Paramount (not a great area either). If you look at the cities around it, you notice alot more caches.

 

Same goes for the worse parts of Long Beach.

 

Im still going to go get that virtual soon. Cache during the day and show respect and most of the time you will be fine.

 

Straight outta Comptom

gotta a really big geocache

got the first to find

trinkets will be hauled off

you to travel bug if ya look good enuff

signed log and took stuff

 

Yeah I know, don't quit my day job.

 

As far as Denver goes. I worked in Denver and there are parts of Denver I didn't like going even with the police. It's been a while though, is Five Points still the murder capital of Denver? b

Like a lot of areas, Five Points has become more gentrified in the last 15 years. As housing got more expensive in the ballfield district, upper-middle income individuals and couples started moving into the area between Five Points and downtown. The city also put a lot of money into the area as long as running the train into 5 Points.

 

Back in the late 90's I had a client in Five Points that I visited many times without worry for my safety and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again as the area has improved. The area's still not 'great', there at least two parks near there that drug sales mecca, especially for heroin.

 

In my 28 years in Denver, I've never seen anything that matches area's I've seen in parts of Philly, Chicago, Bed-Sty, and Baltimore. (That's not an all-inclusive list, btw.) In Denver, I'd walk just about anywhere during the day and only avoid a few areas late at night (an area just north north/east of Five Points would be one area I'd avoid at night.)

[+theshows]

I've noticed more caches in our smallish city in some unsavory places. I think there are more in the unsavory places than high end neighborhoods b/c there are more abandoned lots to hid a cache in. In the nice communities you might have one at a park, but most lots have home owners and few businesses.

[+Knight2000]

I've got a cache in a shady park where the homeless and drug addicts hang out. It's a sneaky hide and not a family type hide. I figure people can easily skip it. I can't imagine any other type of caching working there. I've heard they always go missing. It's probably better than no cache at all, right? You don't have to stick your fingers or feel anywhere. It's hidden in plain sight. It is also near a lamp post in the park.

 

If you go early in the morning, especially on Sunday (right by big church), I hear it's as quiet as can be.

 

There is NOTHING wring with the homeless. Please don't read more into that. They just freak some people out.

[+Coyote's Girl]

Seems to ring true for my area as well.

 

 

The majority of space on the Eastside can be accounted for by farmland, but East St and the Northside are blank. Just as the pattern would indicate.

[+Coldgears]

 

Like this? North philly has only 3 caches, two within a campus of temple universiy. (only safe spot... But seriously, why put a college in the most dangerous spot in a city?) The other one? Well, lets just say some of the logs make you think twice. Like a 5 parargraph story of how this guy walked through the ghetto's and how uncomfortable he felt.

 

Oh, please try not to laugh at the lack of caches in the city I live in! I live in the extreme northeast area. I found plenty there! (There are about 6 grouped super close in the upper right I found.)

Edited October 18, 2010 by Coldgears

[+mtbikernate]

where I live, it doesn't quite hold true. the caches are located wherever there's public land - wealthy area or not. the side of town where I live is pretty sparsely populated with caches - except for mine.

[uperdooper]

yeesh! there's a good reason people don't come to flint, michigan.

 

[sabrefan7]

Actually, I noticed this looking at caches nearby. Bed-Stuy and East New York do not look like fun places to visit.

 

 

JAY-Z dont Geocache (self edited for inappropriate Jay-Z lyrics) Homeslice

[+TheGrey]

Yeah... it applies to my city too. Any other area in Minneapolis, and these parks would be saturated with caches.

 

[sabrefan7]

Even Buffalo The Bailey, Fillmore, Broadway area is pretty void. And NO I would not drive there at night Although I do drive on Scott St after a Hockey Game

[+hukilaulau]

Actually, I noticed this looking at caches nearby. Bed-Stuy and East New York do not look like fun places to visit.

 

 

JAY-Z dont Geocache (self edited for inappropriate Jay-Z lyrics) Homeslice

But ya gotta love Prospect Park! And is that event icon in Central Park for one of the Proto-Picnics?

edit to add: Nope, on second glance that's more like the seaport area...

Edited October 18, 2010 by hukilaulau

[+JohnnyVegas]

I was recently reading a thread where someone mentioned geocaching in Detroit and how if you were unsure of where the bad part of town was, the lack of geocaches in a fairly expansive part of town was a good indicator.

 

I started to wonder if that was true for other cities. I checked Omaha, where I currently live. Sure enough, there is a distinct caching void located on the east side of town north of Dodge St, which is considered the sketchier neighborhood.

 

So...is a geocaching map in your area a good way to tell where the good and bad parts of the city are? Anyone use a geocaching map not to cache, but to know where and where not to travel?

Same thing in Richmond California, A freind of mine works there. I checked the are for caches, not many to look for. Now if there was a catagory foor spent shell casings or flying bullets

[+chasclifton]

I had never thought that geocaches would provide such a social analysis of cities, but it's an idea that is brilliant in its simplicity.

 

As to Philadelphia, a city with which I am somewhat familiar, I think that Temple University was there before the north side declined.

[GOF and Bacall]

Even Buffalo The Bailey, Fillmore, Broadway area is pretty void. And NO I would not drive there at night Although I do drive on Scott St after a Hockey Game

 

Actually, there is a swath of land devoid of caches all the way from Bethlehem Steel to Audubon town park. Interesting.

[+TerraViators]

These maps are fascinating. I never thought about caches in the rougher neighborhoods, but come to think of it....I never go to south Dallas.

[GOF and Bacall]

Every city since Bedrock has had it's areas where crime reigns. These parts of town aren't particularly entertaining. I don't know why anyone is surprised by this.

[+TerraViators]

Every city since Bedrock has had it's areas where crime reigns. These parts of town aren't particularly entertaining. I don't know why anyone is surprised by this.

There was no bad part of Bedrock...the Flinstone's were a model Stone Age family.

[+ObeyTheCorgi]

The central portion of Santa Ana, California has no caches. It has a reputation as being a tough place, but it's really not. I think it suffers more from not having cachers living within the area. It would be interesting to see, on average, how far a cache owner's hides are from their home location. Fewer cachers in an area, would equal fewer overall caches. Some have said that an area might lack caches because there isn't anything interesting there. As someone who has spent many a morning "touring" industrial parks and random shopping center parking lots in search of caches, I'm not sure that theory holds true. There are plenty of featureless 'burbs with high cache saturation. Probably more cachers living there is my guess. Fascinating stuff. Maybe I'll go back to school and make this the topic of my doctoral dissertation.

 

[+d+n.s]

Its true in Austin, but "bad side of town" is maybe a strong word for SE Austin where I live. I'm trying to add more in this area anyway because there is some cool stuff here that doesn't get enough love.

[GOF and Bacall]

Every city since Bedrock has had it's areas where crime reigns. These parts of town aren't particularly entertaining. I don't know why anyone is surprised by this.

There was no bad part of Bedrock...the Flinstone's were a model Stone Age family.

 

First of all, I said since. You assumed the set was inclusive.

 

Second of all, if they didn't have a bad side of town why would they need a paddy wagon?

 

[+GeoGeeBee]

About a year ago someone hid a micro in East Durham. They even called it "The bad side of town," or "In Tha Hood," or something like that. It was muggled and archived within a couple of weeks, if I recall correctly.

[+T_M_H]

I thought this was an interesting topic so I took a closer look at the map of Columbus, Ohio. It did not surprise me:

 

[+addisonbr]

There is an area in Nevada that is perfectly nice - although it's a bit long and thin, I would have no problems bringing my family there.

 

But after reviewing the maps more closely, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES would I step foot more than a few dozen feet to the east or the west.

 

[+Coyote's Girl]

There is an area in Nevada that is perfectly nice - although it's a bit long and thin, I would have no problems bringing my family there.

 

But after reviewing the maps more closely, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES would I step foot more than a few dozen feet to the east or the west.

 

Power Trails not withstanding of course. I think someone broke a record here not long ago.....

Edited October 19, 2010 by Coyote's Girl

[+Thrak]

The "bad" part of my town isn't really bad.

 

You couldn't pay me enough to get me to live in a city.

[+CanadianRockies]

I used to live in NE Washington, DC. Took a look at the map and found that there currently are 72 physical caches within the city limits. That's 1 cache for every 8,300 people. I now live in Alberta, Canada, where there is 1 physical cache for every 342 people.

 

Physical caches in the District of Columbia region:

 

[+NYPaddleCacher]

The "bad" part of my town isn't really bad.

 

Same here. Actually, before I lived where I do now I lived (for about three years) in an area what was once considered a bad part of town. I liked the neighborhood and never felt unsafe. The nearest "bad part of town" is probably 50 miles away in Syracuse.

 

This thread had shown me that there are quite a few cities where I would not want to live.

[+jmw61]

I guess I'd want a more definitive description of what the OP considers a bad part of town, but after looking at the map and caches in my town, there are definite black holes in several areas. One thing that I note on our map is that the black holes are located in very affluent white neighborhoods, very low income white neighborhoods, very low income black neighborhoods and very low income mixed neighborhoods. We also have a military base that is cacheless. We have two historic black colleges in town that they both have a number of caches located in their vicinity and one white college that has a number as well.

[+KBLAST]

Team MidwestHaunters is from my city and posted a nice shot of northeast C-Bus, but there are other black holes. We actually have a police officer I cache with and consult often when I notice a park without a cache. There are some areas he KNOWS that we should not put caches, and I listen to him.

 

There was one cache that was placed in a nearby park and he went and found it and posted that it was in a bad park. The owner archived it. This was a park I was considering, but then quit considering. A few months later another cacher tried to place one there. Same results. Finally someone placed a cache there, and we all posted comments. The cacher moved the cache to a relatively safe part of the park (up near the front) and renamed it, "Please don't place any more caches in Helsel Park!"

 

I think this kind of thing happens often... Either people KNOW not to place caches in that area, so the area is sparse, or ignorant cache owners become educated and archive them. I'm glad for this trend, as there are a few caches in Columbus that are in bad parts of town, and I have heard of people being accosted at these cache sites. If it ain't a fun place to cache, then why put caches there?

[+gpsblake]

Tons of caches in rich white neighborhoods but bad neighborhoods (whatever that means) have almost none.

 

Even some caches around here, it's implied

 

Example:

GC1KQAH

 

Quote: This is a run down area. There is a road that leads you right to cache almost. It is a quick grab, but due to area I wouldn't go alone or at night.

 

It's obvious a codeword for "african-american" neighborhood in Aiken, SC

[+MikeAndHike]

Well I don't see any "Black Holes" but it looks like the east beats the west. Also a density of 1 cache to 120 people or so.

[+BeaveMeister]

Sociologically i think it would be acceptable to say that there would be less caches in a bad part of town, however logically it would not be safe to say that what is true of a few areas is true of all areas. One cannot assume that because 9 out of 10 situations reflect the hypothesis, that that is what the real reason is. That 1 out of 10 shows that there are other possibilities other than crime, poverty, etc.

[+Ecylram]

Sociologically i think it would be acceptable to say that there would be less caches in a bad part of town, however logically it would not be safe to say that what is true of a few areas is true of all areas. One cannot assume that because 9 out of 10 situations reflect the hypothesis, that that is what the real reason is. That 1 out of 10 shows that there are other possibilities other than crime, poverty, etc.

There are, of course, all sorts of reasons why some areas don't have (many) caches. Crime-ridden areas, gated communities, national parks, school grounds, etc. are some of the reasons there will be low or no density.

 

But, having looked at several cities, I would expect to see a high correlation between high-crime residential areas and low cache densities. The reason for this seems pretty self evident, caches are less likely to placed and cachers are less likely to hunt in areas where there is a higher chance of being a victim of a crime.

[+Sithlock Holmes]

When I was in Calgary the NE was pretty sparse. Often thought of as one of the 'crime areas'...but Calgary wouldn't know a real 'bad part of town' if it bit them on their conservative posteriors. Before leaving C-town, NE placements did start to pick up as folk recognized that a)NE isn't that bad b)the muggle rate wasn't different than any other part of the city c)the rest of the city is pretty full

 

I love looking at the Detroit map. I got some friends in the D and have a twisted desire to do a 5/5 in the core. Kevlar and Heat as special tools.

[+DanOCan]

When I was in Calgary the NE was pretty sparse. Often thought of as one of the 'crime areas'...but Calgary wouldn't know a real 'bad part of town' if it bit them on their conservative posteriors. Before leaving C-town, NE placements did start to pick up as folk recognized that a)NE isn't that bad b)the muggle rate wasn't different than any other part of the city c)the rest of the city is pretty full

 

I was looking at the Calgary map too, and while there is nothing that compares to what we see on some of these U.S. cities, you can definately see the cache density drops significantly once you get east of Deerfoot Trail.

[+narcissa]

I can't think of any part of my city that is too dangerous for a geocache. I tend to avoid geocaching where French people live, but that's because I'm scared of white socks and big hair.

[+JoesBar]

I live just east of Cleveland, OH, in Euclid. The city where I live has only a few caches. I don't feel it's unsafe. The reson there are only a few caches here is because there simply are not that many places to hide good caches. sure, I could put a skirtlifter every 528 ft., but that's not my style. The large park in the center of town has no caches. I've walked through many times, but the place is too wide open, and in the summer it's just to busy.

I have placed caches in parts of Cleveland where folks may not feel secure. I include that info on the cache page with a paragraph telling folks about the area and to use their own judgement about comfort level. But I maintain the cache. And I don't carry a firearm.

There are some very cool caches located in Cleveland that are in interesting cemeteries, and near some interesing architecture. And the areas may be considered rough. But that's all in the view of the seeker.

There are parks in parts of town where I just don't travel and I know the area is crummy. So I agree with the OP that the rougher parts of cities have fewer hides.

 

But, as I stated in the opening, it could also be that there just aren't many spots to place good hides.

[+geocat_]

Used to live in Cleveland, and as I suspected, that area on the east side around Kinsman is deserted. I think I remember this being listed as one of the worst neighborhoods in America. I wouldn't even attempt a skirt lift cache here!

[+hzoi]

We live on the edge of the historic district in Montgomery; before we put out some hides close to home, the closest caches were a mile away. Still very few caches on the west or south side, and several of those talk about caching "in the hood" or "are you scared?"

 

We've tried to put some out in the area, some are more frequently found than others. I use the better half of hzoi as my guide; she is rather wee, and she hasn't felt uncomfortable at any of our hide locations. Still, I was asked by a few folks at an event if I was going to keep hiding caches in the hood. My joking response was to hide one of our next ones by the entrance to a police firing range.

[+The red-haired witch]

I can't think of any part of my city that is too dangerous for a geocache. I tend to avoid geocaching where French people live, but that's because I'm scared of white socks and big hair.

 

Hey, I saw that! Bad Narcissa, I won't invite you to my backyard anymore

 

As she says, there doesn't seem to be a really bad part of town in Ottawa or Gatineau (aka where the scary French people live). Here, if you see a part of the map where there appears to be no caches, odds are it's just because there are many multis and puzzles ending in that area

[+G Family]

Interesting topic! Very true in Detroit!