Why do people "avoid muggles"?

[+Coldgears]

I have had nothing but good experiences anytime I invite a muggle to help. Whether they help me figure out an impossibly hard puzzle, move off of a bench so I can get it, or just tell them why I'm going into a lamp post, they usually help me and ask one or two questions and go on there way. None of the caches have gone missing. This happens to me all the time, just the other day I was in the park looking in bushes... I was about to give up, a muggle came over and asked me what I was doing... I told her it was a treasure hunt and she actually found it in a spot I would have never looked.

 

Here's a story for you. (forum regulars can skip this story as I have posted it once before. It just fits this oh so perfectly.)

 

"We found the cache after "digging" a little through the leaves. So I go over to the sidewalk and open up the puzzle. We spent 30 minutes trying to figure it out... We just don't know my dog breeds (I only knew a few such as a beagle because my aunt has one and a dalmatian... Because it's a dalmatian)! We had to look up the pictures on the "cheat sheet" on google images... And even then we had major trouble. I never thought I would finish it! That was, until the lady that worked at the women's humane society came up to us and asked us what we were doing. I told her the truth... We were geocaching! She said she heard of it before and was really curious about the whole thing. Luckily for us, she knew all her dog breeds. She made a puzzle that would have taken a few more hours of painstaking google searching into a quick 2-4 minute puzzle... Once I got the correct coords I noticed it was a drive, I asked her if she wanted to follow us to the final as it was really close. She said she really didn't have anything else to do! We drove to the correct parking lot after a few dumb moves... (Going into the wrong parking lot.) We walked the path up to the cache, and as she was a lady she didn't come with me to get it. I bushwhacked through all the grass (luckily no poison ivy or thorn bushes). I then found in pretty quickly. I brought it out to show her. I gave her the GC code so she could look it up when she got home, and gave told her the name of the website."

 

Removed parts of thread that was an arguement

Edited October 9, 2010 by Coldgears

[+BlueDeuce]

It's all about the 'vibe'. There are times when I know I can explain what I'm doing and maybe they are interested and maybe they blow the whistle. Sometimes I get concerned look and maybe that's when it's time to walk away. I don't think that I always have to explain what I am doing.

 

Then there are times that I am in full view of every one and there is absolutely no way I can reasonably sure that I won't compromise the cache location.

 

I understand being forthcoming with someone who is wondering what I am doing (including law enforcement) but I don't see a problem with being discrete.

Edited October 9, 2010 by BlueDeuce

[GOF and Bacall]

I try to size up the bystanders before I make a decision either way. If it is a family with youngsters I usually invite them to join in. If it is a group of teen boys I usually just pass on the cache and return later. Anything in between I take one situation at a time.

[+Coldgears]

Thread devolved to crap edited

Edited October 9, 2010 by Coldgears

[+BlueDeuce]

 

Then there are times that I am in full view of every one and there is absolutely no way I can reasonably sure that I won't compromise the cache location.

Whats the age group? I can't see a group of anyone over the age of 18 really wondering what you are doing. Give some backround... Where you at the local teenage hangout? Or were you at the beach where most of the 50+ people in view couldn't give a crap.

 

I edited my previous post so let me say it here.

 

I don't believe that no one has every noticed someone looking for a cache and then never went to check on what they were doing.

 

Not for a second.

[+Coldgears]

Editing thread that was supposed to be good but turned to an arguement

Edited October 9, 2010 by Coldgears

[GOF and Bacall]

 

Then there are times that I am in full view of every one and there is absolutely no way I can reasonably sure that I won't compromise the cache location.

Whats the age group? I can't see a group of anyone over the age of 18 really wondering what you are doing. Give some backround... Where you at the local teenage hangout? Or were you at the beach where most of the 50+ people in view couldn't give a crap.

 

I edited my previous post so let me say it here.

 

I don't believe that no one has every noticed someone looking for a cache and then never went to check on what they were doing.

 

Not for a second.

Usually that results in them putting it back and either forgetting about it or becoming part of the game. Ask around your local geocaching group, you'd be surprised how many people get into the game by finding a geocache on accident or by finding one after seeing another search for it.

 

There is no way to know how many of the caches that have gone missing have done so for the very same reasons.

[+BlueDeuce]

Usually that results in them putting it back and either forgetting about it or becoming part of the game. Ask around your local geocaching group, you'd be surprised how many people get into the game by finding a geocache on accident or by finding one after seeing another search for it.

 

I have to leave for a football game so I'm going to fire a shot and won't respond until later.

 

I'm not sure why you need to target a specific age group. Do people under 18 tend to be a bunch of punks who don't care about a cache? okay maybe. Just keep in mind that people over 18 are also punky, suspicious, territorial, nosy, over-bearing busy-bodies, and neurotic and mentally unstable.

 

Kids do not have the corner market on muggling caches. In fact, in my opinion they do not make up the majority reason for a lost cache.

[+Coldgears]

Editing stupid arguement

Edited October 9, 2010 by Coldgears

[+BlueDeuce]

I'm done discussing this. Happy caching.

[+Coldgears]

I'm done discussing this. Happy caching.

You're right. This thread is turning into more of an arguement between us two then a discussion. This is not what I had in mind when I posted this thread. Just let this thread die a slow death.

[AZcachemeister]

I don't see anything to argue about.

It's all situational.

'Feeling the vibe' from the heathen who approaches you when you are looking for a cache is kind of important.

Kind of like assessing the intent of that guy about to pass you in the alley at midnight.

Just another bloke on his way home, or someone looking for trouble?

There is no pat answer.

[mddbkzr]

I tried 4 caches today within a short bike ride of my house...

The first had a group of Mexicans sitting under the tree where I knew it was at...

The second had 5 busses full of middle school kids nearby and a main local highway with people stopped and moving all over...

The third is next to and within easy eyeshot of a busy restaurant and several people standing around almost any chance I get to go to that area.

 

I only got the one because it is a part that looks like it could be from my bike so it was easy to mess with to sign and put back without any strange looks or possible tampering.

 

That is why I enjoy the woods around here, take a little hike away from any people and do what you need to do. There are 30-40 around town I have not even attempted to do because there are always so many people around. Since I work during the day, my only option is to go after work or weekends when there is always kids and excess people in those areas.

[+sbell111]

Why do people "avoid muggles"?, Seriously, why not invite them to help?

I default to 'avoid muggles' while searching for caches for the simple reason that the caches that I am looking for do not belong to me. If I let a muggle in on the game and I am wrong about his character, then I am responsible for someone else's cache going missing. I'd rather avoid that.

[+DanOCan]

I avoid muggles because I have gotten sick of explaining the game to them.

[+buttaskotch]

I avoid muggles because I have gotten sick of explaining the game to them.

+1,000,000

I agree, tired of talking abt the high tech treasure hunt, it makes me feel like I am talking abt a cult.

Besides, I like the solitary aspects of the game.

[4wheelin_fool]

Typically people that use both a computer to visit the website, and a GPS to travel to the location to seek it out, will treat a cache much better than someone who accidentally discovers it. The additional process tends to make the person respect it better. If you show a micro to a muggle, they may leave it alone, but an ammo box is a much bigger gamble. If the person seems respectful, then it probably is OK.

Edited October 9, 2010 by 4wheelin_fool

[+briansnat]

I don't see anything to argue about.

It's all situational.

'Feeling the vibe' from the heathen who approaches you when you are looking for a cache is kind of important.

Kind of like assessing the intent of that guy about to pass you in the alley at midnight.

Just another bloke on his way home, or someone looking for trouble?

There is no pat answer.

 

I agree, it's all about the vibe. If the person seems annoyed, or agitated over my presence then no way am I going to give anything away about the cache. If its a mom and/or dad with the kids and they and seem genuinely curious, then I may let them in on what I'm doing.

[GPS-Hermit]

I feel I have an obligation to the owner to keep the cache from being discovered so it will not be plundered. I also believe muggles come up with some pretty strange explanation for my searching behavior and will continue the search or report it. So if I see muggles everyone is better off if I just leave. I do occassional invite someone to know, but not very often.

[+SeekerOfTheWay]

I have to talk to people all day at work. Please don't make me talk to them afterwards too. Ahhh!

[MisterEFQ]

If somebody asks, I will tell them.

 

But if I get near GZ, and there is a group of people right there that are clearly not caching, im not going to go up to them and explain the game and start looking.

 

I like to deal with the least amount of strangers as possible when im enjoying my free time.

[+John in Valley Forge]

I agree it is all situational, the "vibe" as stated earlier.

 

I've had a few muggle experiences lately along a bike trail nearby.

 

In the first, GZ was near a busy train station along the trail. Lots of people passing by, all in a hurry. I was looking around and a bunch of people rode up the trail and stopped somewhere behind me. I just kept on looking until I heard one of them say "I think its over there by that guy". I turned and they all had GPSr's in hand. Good vibe. I spent the rest of my caching day with them.

 

Another time, same trail. I'm 30 yards off a spur of the trail in the woods, signing a log. A couple guys are cutting through the woods towards me from the town on the other side. My bike is another 15 yards deeper in the woods cause I took a wrong turn. They are walking right towards me, though there is no direct trail between us. Not a good vibe. I replaced the cache, moved quickly but nonchalant to my bike and rode back out to the spur trail and then back to the main trail. I'm afraid I gave that cache away and am planning to revisit it with a replacement container just in case.

 

Another time, different place, I'm searching a guard rail. There is a Range Rover parked next to it. The driver returned and was surprised to find me seemingly searching around his car. He asked if I lost something and I told him I was Geocaching. He'd heard of it (this was along another bike trail). He helped me look a little bit, though I think he was really counting his hubcaps .

 

All in all, I just avoid them when I can.

[pat92]

actually theres always exceptions in people im an 18 yo i look like a kid and you could consider me the most respectful punk like the one always telling his friends to stop screwin around like stop teasing that guy stop stealing that car just kidding about the car but im a hardcore geocacher/roofer/hoodlum oh well

[barn owl]

see, im from the "punky" age group since im 17. I do believe it is up to whoever is looking or the degree of their desperation to find it. Geocaching is not meant to be an exclusive game only for those who already know right? after that it becomes like a group of elites in a clique. i believe it is just fine to get assistance but not on a cache-regular basis. you do have to watch who you ask though.

[+kpanko]

 

I've had a few muggle experiences lately along a bike trail nearby.

 

a bunch of people rode up the trail and stopped somewhere behind me. I just kept on looking until I heard one of them say "I think its over there by that guy". I turned and they all had GPSr's in hand.

 

They were the opposite of muggles.

[+theshows]

I avoid them just because it makes me feel like I am on a secret mission:) The world might end if I am caught, so stealth is a must!

 

(I was caught once, but I didn't find the cache that day, so the world did not come to end.....relief)

[+team.evanczik]

I agree with a lot of people here; you just have to use your judgement. Regardless of the age or looks of the person, you kinda just "know". I like to think I've gotten a few people in on the game, because sometimes you tell them what you're doing, and they get really excited and say "I've heard about that and wanted to try it!" It's fun to be with somebody on their first cache. I just met some muggles today who helped me look, and even though we didn't find it, we had a really good time!

[+Walkworthy & Wife]

I hid a cache earlier this year. The first cacher that found it met a friend of his that lives within eyesight of the cache (50 yards). Well, the cacher invited his friend to help him look for the cache. The friend is not a Geocacher. Said friend was actually the one who found the cache according to the cacher's log. Now when said friend sees someone looking for the cache he yells out where its location is. So you risk this happening and as others have mentioned, you increase the possibility of having yours or someone else's cache being muggled.

[CoyoteRed]

Why do people "avoid muggles"?, Seriously, why not invite them to help?

I default to 'avoid muggles' while searching for caches for the simple reason that the caches that I am looking for do not belong to me. If I let a muggle in on the game and I am wrong about his character, then I am responsible for someone else's cache going missing. I'd rather avoid that.

 

Exactly.

 

It's not my cache to compromise.

[viper1986]

I had someone ask, told them and their kids, the next day it was trashed...

Now if i say "oh sorry to bother you, i am lookn for something i lost" and they offer to help, then i give them the honest answer....

[CoyoteRed]

I had someone ask, told them and their kids, the next day it was trashed...

Now if i say "oh sorry to bother you, i am lookn for something i lost" and they offer to help, then i give them the honest answer....

My story is close enough to the truth to feel like it's not lying:

 

"My friends and I are GPS enthusiasts and one of them hide a small something for the us to find. It's kind of challenge/treasure hunt thing. But, it looks looks like someone else has already found it. Oh, well, maybe the next one." Then I leave.

 

This makes the reason I'm using a GPS plausible, yet puts the idea in their head there is nothing for them to find later.

 

Once I find the cache I move a short distance away in case I get found out in the middle of signing in and trading. I've not compromised the spot and, if I have to, I'll take the cache with me to return in an hour or so.

 

Tethered caches that don't have a way to detach the tether are problematic in this respect. You just have to sign in quickly and move on. Sometimes tethering is more important than moving the cache away from the hiding spot to sign in. (Not to mention some folks simply forget exactly where the cache was hidden in the first place.)

[+BelKen]

see, im from the "punky" age group since im 17. I do believe it is up to whoever is looking or the degree of their desperation to find it. Geocaching is not meant to be an exclusive game only for those who already know right? after that it becomes like a group of elites in a clique. i believe it is just fine to get assistance but not on a cache-regular basis. you do have to watch who you ask though.

 

Disclaimer:Quoting barn owl is not meant as an argument with an individual its just that the view expressed here is nearly opposite of my own so it forms the basis of my post.

 

I always believed that the cache was hidden from muggles not fellow geocachers.

 

When I hunt a cache it is an exclusive game between me and the hider. All others are excluded until I find and then we share our experiences with others.

 

I have introduced muggles to the game but they are known to me and led down the path in an orderly manner.

 

If I have been "caught" searching then I feel that as a geocacher I have failed. The trick is to find, retrieve, log and return the cache without getting caught. Many techniques can be used.

[+Chokecherry]

I never lie to muggles about what I'm doing. A freaky tattooed/pierced girl sneaking around is too suspicious on its own to toss some lie on top of it is asking for trouble especially in parks or around parked cars or houses or in the woods where all sorts of trouble makers do stuff.

 

I'm straight up and honest about what I'm doing if someone asks. I don't run around and advertise it. But it has led to some fun stuff. I helped some outdoorsy people discover a hobby to do (and help explain why people kept tromping through their camp site). I met a cache owner and another finder at the same time at a cache and was honest from the get go about that one too. And that was a thrill.

 

I met a paranoid older hermity man in the woods who was wondering what exactly I was doing in the woods by his fishing hole. Couldn't lie about that one as I stood with the container open in my hands signing the log book. He was paranoid enough where lieing would have led to that cache being muggled. As it stands he accepted my answer. Asked a few questions and went about his fishing with no further concerns and I showed him the container and log so chances are he wasn't going to dig in the hiding spot to see what exactly I was doing. Future finders in his fishing spot will likely not be bugged by him either.

 

But we all cache in different ways and for different reasons depending on our situation.

[+lachupa]

I was a muggle once. It was a long time ago, before I had a GPSr. We were out hiking and saw a family find a cache. The kids were really excited about it and their mom explained what was going on. I didn't think that much about it except for to think it was cute how excited the kids were until I got a GPSr and saw the geocaching info in the instructions.