Found a cache, but couldn't open it...

[+Shim&Pod]

Hi all

 

We're quite new to this game but really enjoying it so far and will hide our own cache soon.

 

We found a cache earlier today that required a screwdriver to open. I hadn't read the description thoroughly first. I took a pic of the cache but obviously couldn't sign the log.

 

What is the etiquette when it comes to logging this online? Can I log it as found or should I wait until I can return to it if possible in the future?

 

Thanks

 

Shim & Pod

[+Panther&Pine]

 

We found a cache earlier today that required a screwdriver to open. I hadn't read the description thoroughly first. I took a pic of the cache but obviously couldn't sign the log.

 

In this case I'd say wait until you can go back. Part of the challenge of that particular cache is that you open it. But that is how I play the game.

 

GC code?

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

Most here will say you Must sign the log. I don't disagree with that, especially if the write up did specify needing a screw driver.

 

However it's really up to the CO so I would contact them with the question and abide by their ruling.

[+L0ne.R]

Most here will say you Must sign the log. I don't disagree with that, especially if the write up did specify needing a screw driver.

 

However it's really up to the CO so I would contact them with the question and abide by their ruling.

 

I agree, especially if the write-up specifically says you need, or even hints at, special tools required.

 

When it comes to caches that are meant to be opened by hand and can't be - rusted, frozen, a plastic pipe cache with a cap that won't come off - I take a photo, post a find and in my log let the owner know about the problem then say that I can send them a digital photo as proof if they would like one. I have never had a CO delete my found log. They haven't asked me to send photos either. So in my experience anyway, all COs have been easy-going.

[+BaylorGrad]

This has happened to me only once... I found a tobacco tin cache that was rusted completely shut. I read on the logs that the last 3 finders couldn't open it either. I found the cache and tried various tools to try and open it for about 15 minutes, but it wouldn't work. When I shook the cache, it was obviously FULL of water.

 

So I figured that even if I had opened the cache, there would be nothing there to sign. And I made the find, didn't I? I logged it.

 

Here's the cache: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...0f-5a31b7969543

[+Ecylram]

This has happened to me only once... I found a tobacco tin cache that was rusted completely shut. I read on the logs that the last 3 finders couldn't open it either. I found the cache and tried various tools to try and open it for about 15 minutes, but it wouldn't work. When I shook the cache, it was obviously FULL of water.

 

So I figured that even if I had opened the cache, there would be nothing there to sign. And I made the find, didn't I? I logged it.

 

Here's the cache: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...0f-5a31b7969543

There's a lot of ways this game is played, but I agree with you...If I can't sign the cache due to a maintenance issue, I'll log it.

 

On the other side...

 

If I can't sign the log because I didn't do something (bring pen, needed special tool, etc.) then I DON'T claim it.

[+Semper Questio]

If I can't extract, open, or sign the log of a cache due to maintenance issues I'll photo the cache and log it as a find while offering to provide the photo proof to the CO. I've never had a log deleted or had anyone ask for the proof yet.

 

If I can't do any of the above due to my own lack of preparation and some other fault of my own, I log the DNF and come back when I am better prepared.

[+briansnat]

The way I see it, if opening the cache is part of the challenge, for example there is a lock and you need to determine the combination, or there some other device that you have to defeat to get inside, then you need to open it to log the cache.

 

If it's rusted shut, or encased in ice, or you have arthritic fingers and aren't strong enough to open an ammo box, then you found the cache, so why not log it?

 

In the end it is between you and the cache owner. Ask him if it is OK to log the find and if he says yes, go for it.

Edited October 8, 2010 by briansnat

[+Scubasonic]

Hi all

 

We're quite new to this game but really enjoying it so far and will hide our own cache soon.

 

We found a cache earlier today that required a screwdriver to open. I hadn't read the description thoroughly first. I took a pic of the cache but obviously couldn't sign the log.

 

What is the etiquette when it comes to logging this online? Can I log it as found or should I wait until I can return to it if possible in the future?

 

Thanks

 

Shim & Pod

 

I would contact the cache owner and tell them what happened describe what you found and let them make the call since you didn't sign the physical log.

 

cubasonic

[+Shim&Pod]

Thanks for the comments folks,

 

Think I'll just wait to return to it in a few days and sign the log. Want a clear conscience!

[+ventura_kids]

Wait.... we haven't discussed this enough yet. I'll take the opposite opinion....

 

Sure. Just click "Found it".

The geocaching.com website was designed to help geocachers keep track of geocaches they want to find.

Period.

 

Once you no longer want to find a geocache, you just mark it off your list. This can be done by marking it as "found".

Now, when you pull a list of caches you want to find, it will be OFF that list.

 

Don't worry about all that puritan gobble-de-gook regarding correct counts and guidelines, etc..

 

[+LukeTrocity]

The way I see it, if opening the cache is part of the challenge, for example there is a lock and you need to determine the combination, or there some other device that you have to defeat to get inside, then you need to open it to log the cache.

 

If it's rusted shut, or encased in ice, or you have arthritic fingers and aren't strong enough to open an ammo box, the you found the cache, so why not log it?

 

In the end it is between you and the cache owner. Ask him if it is OK to log the find and if says yes, go for it.

QFT.

[GOF and Bacall]

Add me to those that would not log the cache because part of the challenge was to actually open it. That challenge was not met. I would not have a problem with someone logging a cache that could not be opened due to some maintenance issue, but wouldn't log such a cache myself. I had one that was frozen in a large block of ice that I had to wait nearly a month for it to thaw out enough to get the ammo can open. Had just as much fun on the second visit as the first.

[+BlueDeuce]

Add me to those that would not log the cache because part of the challenge was to actually open it. That challenge was not met. I would not have a problem with someone logging a cache that could not be opened due to some maintenance issue, but wouldn't log such a cache myself. I had one that was frozen in a large block of ice that I had to wait nearly a month for it to thaw out enough to get the ammo can open. Had just as much fun on the second visit as the first.

 

Exactly.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Add me to those that would not log the cache because part of the challenge was to actually open it. That challenge was not met. I would not have a problem with someone logging a cache that could not be opened due to some maintenance issue, but wouldn't log such a cache myself. I had one that was frozen in a large block of ice that I had to wait nearly a month for it to thaw out enough to get the ammo can open. Had just as much fun on the second visit as the first.

 

Had a similar incident happen to me today. I had a rare opportunity to look for a couple of caches after work and went after one that's been out for a few months. When I arrived at GZ I found a metal drainage pipe that went under the road. I took a peak inside and saw what I thought was a bison tube stuck to the pipe. I grabbed it and it turned out to be a solid magnet about the size and shape. When I stuck it back inside it attached to a second magnet, again a solid piece of metal. Then I checked the recent logs using my iPhone and the previous log said that they had found the magnets, but not the cache, but was logging it as a find. That was about a month ago and the CO hadn't deleted the log. Then I spotted what appeared to be a lock-n-lock container about 8' inside the pipe, far too far for me to reach and the pipe was too small to crawl inside. I logged it as a DNF and posted a Needs Maintenance log.

[+Coldgears]

Wait.... we haven't discussed this enough yet. I'll take the opposite opinion....

 

Sure. Just click "Found it".

The geocaching.com website was designed to help geocachers keep track of geocaches they want to find.

Period.

 

Once you no longer want to find a geocache, you just mark it off your list. This can be done by marking it as "found".

Now, when you pull a list of caches you want to find, it will be OFF that list.

 

Don't worry about all that puritan gobble-de-gook regarding correct counts and guidelines, etc..

 

I agree this guy speaks the truth. Most people on these forums are puritans. Don't listen to them, they DO NOT represent the majority.

[AZcachemeister]

Thanks for the comments folks,

 

Think I'll just wait to return to it in a few days and sign the log. Want a clear conscience!

 

And NO ONE will ever question your find count.

 

Congratulations, and welcome to the world of the PURITANS!

 

(It's a joke only forum regulars will likely get.)

[mddbkzr]

In some cases if it needs special item like a screwdriver that will not be in everyones vehicle/pocket, then just mark it as a find. There is one close to home that requires a screwdriver which I actually got back to today to sign... but if it is too far away then I will just mark it as found and leave it as is.

 

Now if it is one that is part of a puzzle or requires a combination to a lock or find a key elsewhere... then you need to finish it all before marking it as found...

Edited October 9, 2010 by mddbkzr

[GOF and Bacall]

In some cases if it needs special item like a screwdriver that will not be in everyones vehicle/pocket, then just mark it as a find. There is one close to home that requires a screwdriver which I actually got back to today to sign... but if it is too far away then I will just mark it as found and leave it as is.

 

To each their own, but I prefer to know that I met the challenge before I claim the find.

[+FunnyNose]

In some cases if it needs special item like a screwdriver that will not be in everyones vehicle/pocket, then just mark it as a find. There is one close to home that requires a screwdriver which I actually got back to today to sign... but if it is too far away then I will just mark it as found and leave it as is.

 

To each their own, but I prefer to know that I met the challenge before I claim the find.

 

From Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

 

Logging of All Physical Caches

Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed.

[+Coldgears]

In some cases if it needs special item like a screwdriver that will not be in everyones vehicle/pocket, then just mark it as a find. There is one close to home that requires a screwdriver which I actually got back to today to sign... but if it is too far away then I will just mark it as found and leave it as is.

 

To each their own, but I prefer to know that I met the challenge before I claim the find.

 

From Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

 

Logging of All Physical Caches

Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed.

 

From Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

 

Guidelines

[GOF and Bacall]

In some cases if it needs special item like a screwdriver that will not be in everyones vehicle/pocket, then just mark it as a find. There is one close to home that requires a screwdriver which I actually got back to today to sign... but if it is too far away then I will just mark it as found and leave it as is.

 

To each their own, but I prefer to know that I met the challenge before I claim the find.

 

From Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

 

Logging of All Physical Caches

Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed.

 

From Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

 

Guidelines

 

Thanks for the lesson guys. But I did say "To each their own..." Kinda implies that the rest is just what works for me.

[+tozainamboku]

In some cases if it needs special item like a screwdriver that will not be in everyones vehicle/pocket, then just mark it as a find. There is one close to home that requires a screwdriver which I actually got back to today to sign... but if it is too far away then I will just mark it as found and leave it as is.

 

To each their own, but I prefer to know that I met the challenge before I claim the find.

 

From Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

 

Logging of All Physical Caches

Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed.

 

From Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

 

Guidelines

Not exactly. The quoted guideline is meant to keep cache owners from having additional requirements beyond signing the physical log in order to log a find online. Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has be signed [regardless of any additional requirements that a cache owner may have on the cache page]. The quoted guideline goes on to tell cache owners who have additional requirements for logging online as Found that these must be treated as optional request and they cannot delete logs simply because an additional requirement was not performed. They is no rule or guideline that says you may not log find online unless you have signed the physical log. There is no rule or guideline saying that a cache owner must delete a log if someone didn't sign the physical log for some good reason. However, a cache owner who hides a cache that requires a screwdriver to open and says that a screwdriver or tool will be needed to open the cache, may think that not bringing a screwdriver is not a good reason for not signing the log.

[+power69]

This has happened to me only once... I found a tobacco tin cache that was rusted completely shut. I read on the logs that the last 3 finders couldn't open it either. I found the cache and tried various tools to try and open it for about 15 minutes, but it wouldn't work. When I shook the cache, it was obviously FULL of water.

 

So I figured that even if I had opened the cache, there would be nothing there to sign. And I made the find, didn't I? I logged it.

 

Here's the cache: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...0f-5a31b7969543

it rusted shut in a month after being replaced?

must really be a wet spot.

[+briansnat]

In some cases if it needs special item like a screwdriver that will not be in everyones vehicle/pocket, then just mark it as a find. There is one close to home that requires a screwdriver which I actually got back to today to sign... but if it is too far away then I will just mark it as found and leave it as is.

 

To each their own, but I prefer to know that I met the challenge before I claim the find.

 

From Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

 

Logging of All Physical Caches

Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed.

 

That guideline was added to address ALRs, not to deny finds to those who found the paper log too wet to sign or a container that is rusted shut.

Edited October 10, 2010 by briansnat

[+John in Valley Forge]

I think you are right to come back to open the cache later.

Personally I don't search the woods to see the outside of a green metal can. I want to see what's inside.

I found a locked one on Thursday but my solution to the puzzle was wrong so I had the wrong combination. Thats my fault, not the CO. I might feel a lot different if it was a CO maintenance issue like a bad rusty can.

[+Shim&Pod]

Hadn't realised this thread was still busy

 

Returned to the cache today and with the aid of a couple of screwdrivers got it opened and signed the logbook.

 

I can rest easy now

 

Thanks

 

Shim

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Hi all

 

We're quite new to this game but really enjoying it so far and will hide our own cache soon.

 

We found a cache earlier today that required a screwdriver to open. I hadn't read the description thoroughly first. I took a pic of the cache but obviously couldn't sign the log.

 

What is the etiquette when it comes to logging this online? Can I log it as found or should I wait until I can return to it if possible in the future?

 

Thanks

 

Shim & Pod

It's between you and the cache owner. It sounds like the kind og Cache where they would not allow a find if you don't sign the log. You can always post a DNF to share your story.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Wait.... we haven't discussed this enough yet. I'll take the opposite opinion....

 

Sure. Just click "Found it".

The geocaching.com website was designed to help geocachers keep track of geocaches they want to find.

Period.

 

Once you no longer want to find a geocache, you just mark it off your list. This can be done by marking it as "found".

Now, when you pull a list of caches you want to find, it will be OFF that list.

 

Don't worry about all that puritan gobble-de-gook regarding correct counts and guidelines, etc..

 

But...But...I'v GOT to go back and see what's INSIDE!!

[+the hermit crabs]

We've hidden a few dozen caches, but the only one that we are really sticklers about "found it" logs is the one that is meant to be a challenge to open.

 

It's an ammo can that has been welded shut, with a "secret" panel in the bottom held in place by a very strong magnet. There are at least three hints on the cache page regarding the nature of the cache, plus lots of spoilers in the logs.

 

It's our only cache page that explicitly says that the physical cache log must be signed before it can be logged online. We've had some logs that said hat the ammo can was frozen or rusted shut, but they were claiming a find anyway... we've emailed them giving broad hints about the trick of the cache, and asking them to change their logs from "found it" to either a note or a DNF. All but one have complied, and came back out to find it for real... we did end up deleting the one holdout's found-it log.

[+MR57]

The way I see it, if opening the cache is part of the challenge, for example there is a lock and you need to determine the combination, or there some other device that you have to defeat to get inside, then you need to open it to log the cache.

 

If it's rusted shut, or encased in ice, or you have arthritic fingers and aren't strong enough to open an ammo box, then you found the cache, so why not log it?

 

In the end it is between you and the cache owner. Ask him if it is OK to log the find and if he says yes, go for it.

Not to mention. I have 26 caches. I have never and will never go around opening my caches and trying to compare the log with the online log. I have better things to do with my time.

[+Harry Dolphin]

If you did not sign the log, then it's a DNF. Don't listen to the heretics who twist every word to their advantage, ignoring what is meant.

[GPS-Hermit]

If it was mine, I would not care as long as you posted that you found it. If the CO deletes your log then he has made his case and 'YES' you need to return. The CO may ask you for an email saying where you found it. If it is easy to return just do it. If not, log it with opologies and promises not to repeat and see what happens. That lets others know you goofed but the cache is still there.

 

Since you are new - I will say "Always read the listing and a few logs as well" before finding a cache - get use to things so you can always sign the Log. It is an honor for all to have you sign, so take pride in it and enjoy the game. Not reading the listing can cause all kinds of dis-appointments. There is good stuff to read in those listing so enjoy that as well as the cache.

 

You are doing great - do not dispair!

[+Stargazer22]

Good for you for going back, opening the container, and signing the log.

I would have done the same.

 

My standards for my own finds differ from what I would expect from others, though. Personally I won't log a cache online that doesn't have my name on the physical log. For me, getting my name on the log is the culmination of the hunt. Kind of like when a duck hunter puts the duck in the game bag. Showing up at the duck pond but not bagging any ducks does not put meat on the table.

But I don't expect others to follow my standards.

[+bflentje]

If usage of the screwdriver was obviously planned, I'd say you have to sign the log. If someone's tin rusted shut, I'd say either picture or putting your mark on the container in such a way as to not damage it works in my book. A NM would also be warranted in the second case.

[knowschad]

If you did not sign the log, then it's a DNF. Don't listen to the heretics who twist every word to their advantage, ignoring what is meant.

I'd like to propose a new log type, "DNS" for those that found the container, but for whatever reason, did not, or could not, sign the log. It would be sort of like "discovering" a travelbug or geocoin.

[+ras_oscar]

I have had 2 or 3 finds I claimed but could not sign the log. In each case I claimed the find and sent the Co a note describing exactly what I found, why I couldn't sign the log and REQUESTING they delete my log if in fact i hadn't found it. 2 of the 3 I never heard from. The third i received a polite little note informing me I had found a red herring (PVC with stuck screw cap) and requesting I delete my log as they did not feel it was polite to delete it for me. 2 cachers being super polite to each other. Imagine that!!!

[+TerraViators]

I found a similar cache. I logged a find. I was expecting the CO to delete it, but they let it stand.

[+LightHouseSeekers]

Recently we located a cache that wouldn't open.

No sign no find, so we made it a DNF, but stated in the log that we believed we had actually found it. Sent an email to CO describing the container and the possible mtce issue. They responded that we should claim the find.

 

Without their approval we weren't going to take because we didn't SIGN LOG.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Hi all

 

We're quite new to this game but really enjoying it so far and will hide our own cache soon.

 

We found a cache earlier today that required a screwdriver to open. I hadn't read the description thoroughly first. I took a pic of the cache but obviously couldn't sign the log.

 

What is the etiquette when it comes to logging this online? Can I log it as found or should I wait until I can return to it if possible in the future?

 

Thanks

 

Shim & Pod

You found it. Log it. Maybe email the pic to the owner. If he deletes your log his other caches are probably good candidates for your ignore list.

[kablooey]

I'd like to propose a new log type, "DNS" for those that found the container, but for whatever reason, did not, or could not, sign the log. It would be sort of like "discovering" a travelbug or geocoin.

 

I use "DNS" to mean "Did not search" (in a Note), usually when I reach the location and discover that the park is closed or there are too many muggles in the area or something like that.

 

I usually use "DNF" if I am unable to open the container to sign the log (which has unfortunately happened too many times). I don't trust that I've really found the cache until I can sign the log. I think I may have logged a "Note" once when I did find the cache but forgot to bring a pen.

Edited October 15, 2010 by kablooey

[+niraD]

I usually use "DNF" if I am unable to open the container to sign the log (which has unfortunately happened too many times). I don't trust that I've really found the cache until I can sign the log.

I've found enough decoy containers that I wouldn't trust a container to be the actual cache until I opened it and checked its contents.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I usually use "DNF" if I am unable to open the container to sign the log (which has unfortunately happened too many times). I don't trust that I've really found the cache until I can sign the log.

I've found enough decoy containers that I wouldn't trust a container to be the actual cache until I opened it and checked its contents.

It's probably a regional thing. I've found a few thousand caches in 28 states and found maybe, at most, ten decoys. It isn't exactly commonplace.

[+niraD]

I usually use "DNF" if I am unable to open the container to sign the log (which has unfortunately happened too many times). I don't trust that I've really found the cache until I can sign the log.

I've found enough decoy containers that I wouldn't trust a container to be the actual cache until I opened it and checked its contents.

It's probably a regional thing. I've found a few thousand caches in 28 states and found maybe, at most, ten decoys. It isn't exactly commonplace.

I wouldn't say decoys are commonplace, and I don't think my ratio of decoys/finds is much higher than yours. But given the decoys I've found, the caches I've found where the challenge is to open the container, the times I've found the "clearly muggled remains of a cache" that turned out not to be the cache at all, etc., I want to open the container and examine its contents before I declare the cache found.