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Please explain the new "Souvenirs" feature


BlueGerbil

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... OK, in fairness, I can understand the need to feel that they must keep up or be left behind, but for many of us, its changing the game from something mostly done outdoors, to something mostly done behind a computer. If I wanted to do that, I would have a Facebook account, a Twitter account, and so-on instead of coming here.
How does geetting an icon in your profile when you geocache in new areas change anything? How does it somehow change the game to something you mostly do behind a computer? It actually doesn't change your computer time, at all. In fact, it may entice some players into getting out and caching more often so that they can earn new souvis.
Personally, I would rather see some of the existing features made better before adding new features (remember bookmarks? maps that actually set filters for your PQs?). But that's just me. Or, is it?
Why can't they do both. Groundspeak isn't just just the Irish boys in their basement eating a cold pizza, after all. It's several people eating moderately warm pizza.
No, it isn't just you. It is what I've been trying to say. When I started this was about the "Tupperware in the woods". Now it seems to be becoming another "social network. Oh, and we also find hidden stuff".
One of the biggest reasons that GC.com has been successful is that it was developed as a social game. Developing the social side to the game is smart, given that people like this sort of thing.
Also, souvenirs are going to cause caches to be archived.

Original Stash Tribute Plaque (GCGV0P) is at risk of being archived right now due to issues with the souvenir Groundspeak associated with it.

How many times has Team360 threatened to archive that cache now? Perhaps TPTB should take him up on his offer.
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Apparently I have to revisit caches to get the souvenir associated with them?

 

They will be rewarded retroactively. There's a post somewhere above this one asking folks to actually not re-log caches just to force the icon.

 

Well, the souvenir gimmick for the Original Stash Tribute Plaque isn't showing in my souvenirs list, so I better go refind and place a note on the cache so I can get the souvenir before it gets archived because of all the armchair cache loggers trying to get the souvenir.

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Apparently I have to revisit caches to get the souvenir associated with them?

 

They will be rewarded retroactively. There's a post somewhere above this one asking folks to actually not re-log caches just to force the icon.

 

Well, the souvenir gimmick for the Original Stash Tribute Plaque isn't showing in my souvenirs list, so I better go refind and place a note on the cache so I can get the souvenir before it gets archived because of all the armchair cache loggers trying to get the souvenir.

 

They haven't rolled them all out yet. They will be retroactively applied. This has been stated more than once in this thread.

 

What armchair loggers? The people that are re-logging their finds to get the Souvenir? ...like you're about to do?

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Apparently I have to revisit caches to get the souvenir associated with them?

 

They will be rewarded retroactively. There's a post somewhere above this one asking folks to actually not re-log caches just to force the icon.

 

Well, the souvenir gimmick for the Original Stash Tribute Plaque isn't showing in my souvenirs list, so I better go refind and place a note on the cache so I can get the souvenir before it gets archived because of all the armchair cache loggers trying to get the souvenir.

 

They haven't rolled them all out yet. They will be retroactively applied. This has been stated more than once in this thread.

 

What armchair loggers? The people that are re-logging their finds to get the Souvenir? ...like you're about to do?

 

No- all the people overseas just logging to get the souvenir. I am following the cache page guideline of logging a note for a repeat visit to the site, which I will actually go to. I'm not going to be like all the Germans that log virtuals without visiting the area.

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I am following the cache page guideline of logging a note for a repeat visit to the site, which I will actually go to.

 

Well, that's a horse of a different color.

 

Just responding to you calling me out on stuff I'm not doing, chief.

 

I sorry, I missed the one little tiny detail that you'd be actually revisiting the actual site and not just revisiting the cache page and re-logging the find, Sparky.

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How many times has Team360 threatened to archive that cache now? Perhaps TPTB should take him up on his offer.

I have noticed that the mood in the CO's logs seems to have taken a real turn for the worse since about 2007 or so. It's probably a stressful listing to maintain. Maybe he offered the listing up for official adoption by Groundspeak that it might work out well for both sides.

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Apparently I have to revisit caches to get the souvenir associated with them?

 

They will be rewarded retroactively. There's a post somewhere above this one asking folks to actually not re-log caches just to force the icon.

 

Well, the souvenir gimmick for the Original Stash Tribute Plaque isn't showing in my souvenirs list, so I better go refind and place a note on the cache so I can get the souvenir before it gets archived because of all the armchair cache loggers trying to get the souvenir.

 

The key point is "will be" awarded retroactively. So please be patient.

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its the lazy generation that has a sickening need for shortening everything, next thing we'll know they going to end up being called SUV's :P

We did a cache today where a previous finder said it was pretty exposed so they covered it with a UPS. We never did come up with up with anything that made sense for that shortcut. :P

 

No brown vans parked at GZ?

 

unnatural pile of sticks?

No brown van. It was on top of a mountain, 3 miles from any road. :)

 

I think it's probably unnatural/unusual pile of sticks.

Ubiquitous Pile of Sticks.

 

Definition of UBIQUITOUS

: existing or being everywhere at the same time : constantly encountered : widespread <a ubiquitous fashion>

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its the lazy generation that has a sickening need for shortening everything, next thing we'll know they going to end up being called SUV's :P

We did a cache today where a previous finder said it was pretty exposed so they covered it with a UPS. We never did come up with up with anything that made sense for that shortcut. :P

 

No brown vans parked at GZ?

 

unnatural pile of sticks?

No brown van. It was on top of a mountain, 3 miles from any road. :)

 

I think it's probably unnatural/unusual pile of sticks.

Ubiquitous Pile of Sticks.

 

Definition of UBIQUITOUS

: existing or being everywhere at the same time : constantly encountered : widespread <a ubiquitous fashion>

 

Well so much for what BROWN can do for you.

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I don't get the resistance.

 

I took a look at some random profiles of folks who have posted that they don't like the Souvenirs idea - every one I looked at had used an application of some sort to post detailed stats in their profile!

 

So you want the world to know the statistics of your geocaching experience but you object to a Souvenir... which is just another indication of a geocaching experience?

 

How does that work?

 

:P

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I don't get the resistance.

 

I took a look at some random profiles of folks who have posted that they don't like the Souvenirs idea - every one I looked at had used an application of some sort to post detailed stats in their profile!

 

So you want the world to know the statistics of your geocaching experience but you object to a Souvenir... which is just another indication of a geocaching experience?

 

How does that work?

 

:P

 

I don't have a problem with the Souvenirs (VEENERS, learn to love it!) but I think the issue that some folks have is the use of resources that were used to create something that isn't directly caching that could have gone towards something that they perceive would be more helpful to caching, like dwarf hamster Sherpas for Premium Members or magical gold ponies for the Reviewers.

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I don't get the resistance.

 

I took a look at some random profiles of folks who have posted that they don't like the Souvenirs idea - every one I looked at had used an application of some sort to post detailed stats in their profile!

 

So you want the world to know the statistics of your geocaching experience but you object to a Souvenir... which is just another indication of a geocaching experience?

 

How does that work?

 

:P

 

I don't have a problem with the Souvenirs (VEENERS, learn to love it!) but I think the issue that some folks have is the use of resources that were used to create something that isn't directly caching that could have gone towards something that they perceive would be more helpful to caching, like dwarf hamster Sherpas for Premium Members or magical gold ponies for the Reviewers.

You're right. I expect my dwarf hamster Sherpa to be fully developed before they spend a moment on silly things like Souvenirs! Mtn-Man astride his magical gold pony is gittin' er dun, so that was time well spent. :P:)

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I don't get the resistance.

 

I took a look at some random profiles of folks who have posted that they don't like the Souvenirs idea - every one I looked at had used an application of some sort to post detailed stats in their profile!

 

So you want the world to know the statistics of your geocaching experience but you object to a Souvenir... which is just another indication of a geocaching experience?

 

How does that work?

 

:)

 

I don't have a problem with the Souvenirs (VEENERS, learn to love it!) but I think the issue that some folks have is the use of resources that were used to create something that isn't directly caching that could have gone towards something that they perceive would be more helpful to caching, like dwarf hamster Sherpas for Premium Members or magical gold ponies for the Reviewers.

Ooooh! A golden pony!!! :P:P

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I don't get the resistance.

 

I took a look at some random profiles of folks who have posted that they don't like the Souvenirs idea - every one I looked at had used an application of some sort to post detailed stats in their profile!

 

So you want the world to know the statistics of your geocaching experience but you object to a Souvenir... which is just another indication of a geocaching experience?

 

How does that work?

 

:P

 

I don't have a problem with the Souvenirs (VEENERS, learn to love it!) but I think the issue that some folks have is the use of resources that were used to create something that isn't directly caching that could have gone towards something that they perceive would be more helpful to caching, like dwarf hamster Sherpas for Premium Members or magical gold ponies for the Reviewers.

 

Now there is someone who has a grasp on the situation. Although I fail to see how the MPGs for reviewers would advance geocaching.

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I certainly don't mind the new feature; I may or may not get involved with it, but that's neither here nor there. It's an option.

 

I think some of the negativity (not all) may have been sparked by the delay in addressing what souvenirs actually are or how they work. I suspect it was intended to be a fun surprise by Groundspeak, but when the threads were locked, and when there was no information from the company, to those who cared enough to ask questions it may have felt like they were being toyed with a bit. I can understand that.

 

It looks like that's been rectified after the 10/10/10 event finally happened, so maybe that will change. And I suppose it bears keeping in mind that forum folks are far outnumbered by geocachers who don't stop by the forums, so maybe the silence, while frustrating for a few, really did result in a pleasant surprise for more.

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I was more annoyed about the secrecy that GS tried to place on it after it was on the site. To be honest it ticked me off. I still don't know why it was decided to stifle the conversation about things that were on the site. It seems like perhaps it wasn't supposed to be released when it was. The problem is that the genie doesn't go back into the bottle without a fight.

 

The fact that they worked on this feature when there are so many things that people have been wanting was also bothersome. It feels like they are more concerned with the bells and whistles than the core product. Kinda like adding lots of chrome to a motorcycle when the engine has a bad valve.

 

As for the souvenirs themselves? Well, ok. If that's your thing.

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So we can't have locationless caches and virtual caches are grandfathered, but we can hunt for virtual "souvenirs" for which we don't know the location - where's the physical container and log? The continual argument against virts, micros, and locationless stems from uncreativity or lameness or "it's not what geocaching is about" (you know finding a regular size physical container, signing a physical log, and trading if one so desires), how are collecting these different from locationless and virtual? Am I missing something? The idea seems better suited to Waymarking for the same reasons Waymarking was established. I got the 10-10-10 souvenir but don't have a clue how, when (it's dated10/9) or what zone I was in to claim it. I wonder when the arguments will start on the forums regarding lame souvenirs and if people will complain about them as they do lame virts, micros, etc or if it will get a pass :P

Edited by fresgo
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... OK, in fairness, I can understand the need to feel that they must keep up or be left behind, but for many of us, its changing the game from something mostly done outdoors, to something mostly done behind a computer. If I wanted to do that, I would have a Facebook account, a Twitter account, and so-on instead of coming here.
How does geetting an icon in your profile when you geocache in new areas change anything? How does it somehow change the game to something you mostly do behind a computer? It actually doesn't change your computer time, at all. In fact, it may entice some players into getting out and caching more often so that they can earn new souvis.

Souvis won't effect me at all, except to entertain me with all the threads that will be started in the forums about "cheaters" who get their souvenirs without signing the log or how it's unfair that iPhone owners simply have to turn on their geocaching applications while non-iPhone owners have log a find. And of course people who will complain when the souvi they're expecting doesn't show up, and the geocache owners who archive their caches because they don't want people to get souvis for them. And the pages and pages on what we should call them: souvis, neers, veneers, souvenirs, badges, pixels prize, etc. The forum entertainment will be endless. Thanks Groundspeak, now I have something to do when I can't go geocaching.

 

I still think souvis are hokey. Just like I though locationless caches and many virtuals were hokey. At one time I though lamppost hides were hokey but I've come to accept them as ordinary geocaches.

 

 

I don't have a problem with the Souvenirs (VEENERS, learn to love it!) but I think the issue that some folks have is the use of resources that were used to create something that isn't directly caching that could have gone towards something that they perceive would be more helpful to caching, like dwarf hamster Sherpas for Premium Members or magical gold ponies for the Reviewers.

 

Now there is someone who has a grasp on the situation. Although I fail to see how the MPGs for reviewers would advance geocaching.

Isn't it obvious? MGPs will tell reviewers what "Wow" is so they can bring back virtual caches.

Edited by tozainamboku
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... OK, in fairness, I can understand the need to feel that they must keep up or be left behind, but for many of us, its changing the game from something mostly done outdoors, to something mostly done behind a computer. If I wanted to do that, I would have a Facebook account, a Twitter account, and so-on instead of coming here.
How does geetting an icon in your profile when you geocache in new areas change anything? How does it somehow change the game to something you mostly do behind a computer? It actually doesn't change your computer time, at all. In fact, it may entice some players into getting out and caching more often so that they can earn new souvis.

Souvis won't effect me at all, except to entertain me with all the threads that will be started in the forums about "cheaters" who get there souvenirs without signing the log or how it's unfair that iPhone owners simply have to turn on their geocaching applications while non-iPhone owners have log a find. And of course people who will complain when the souvi their expecting doesn't show up, and the geocache owners who archive their caches because they don't want people to get souvis for them. And the pages and pages on what we should call them: souvis, neers, veneers, souvenirs, badges, pixels prize, etc. The forum entertainment will be endless. Thanks Groundspeak, now I have something to do when I can't go geocaching.

 

 

I don't have a problem with the Souvenirs (VEENERS, learn to love it!) but I think the issue that some folks have is the use of resources that were used to create something that isn't directly caching that could have gone towards something that they perceive would be more helpful to caching, like dwarf hamster Sherpas for Premium Members or magical gold ponies for the Reviewers.

 

Now there is someone who has a grasp on the situation. Although I fail to see how the MPGs for reviewers would advance geocaching.

Isn't it obvious? MGPs will tell reviewers what "Wow" is so they can bring back virtual caches.

 

Toz. told a joke in under fifty words. I think he should definitely get a souvenir for that! :P

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... The fact that they worked on this feature when there are so many things that people have been wanting was also bothersome. It feels like they are more concerned with the bells and whistles than the core product. Kinda like adding lots of chrome to a motorcycle when the engine has a bad valve.
I'm trying to understand your point of view, but I keep coming up empty. What is it about the core product that you feel should have been worked on instead of this? The way I see it, the core product is working fine. I wanted to find a cache on 10/10, so I pulled up the local caches, found one that was convenient for my schedule, and went and logged it.

 

That's the core of this activity and it works just fine.

 

Also, should everyone in the employ of Groundspeak be working on your pet project, or is it OK for the company to have several projects in the works at the same time?

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So we can't have locationless caches and virtual caches are grandfathered, but we can hunt for virtual "souvenirs" for which we don't know the location - where's the physical container and log? The continual argument against virts, micros, and locationless stems from uncreativity or lameness or "it's not what geocaching is about" (you know finding a regular size physical container, signing a physical log, and trading if one so desires), how are collecting these different from locationless and virtual? Am I missing something? The idea seems better suited to Waymarking for the same reasons Waymarking was established. I got the 10-10-10 souvenir but don't have a clue how, when (it's dated10/9) or what zone I was in to claim it. I wonder when the arguments will start on the forums regarding lame souvenirs and if people will complain about them as they do lame virts, micros, etc or if it will get a pass :P

Well, you are missing a couple things:

 

First, you need not search for souvis. Souvis are simply an iconic record of places that you've cached. In this respect, they are little different from the caching maps that many people place on their profiles.

 

Second, you do know that virts are on the way back, right?

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I admit the taste of a few souvenirs and a number of my friends relogging their few souvenir worthy finds to get them caused me to get them as well.....even though I kinda regret that now. Am sure GS will get them on as soon as they can.

 

Am sure some certain COs will be glad when the retroactive stuff is done (ie Ape, Original Cache).

 

If people do not want to bother with souvenirs, they can change notes or "will attend"s to find logs and at this time, those are not generating souvenirs.

 

Personally I hope there becomes a method to block souvenirs for folks who log finds and then through whatever reason, that log is deleted. A souvenir should equal a valid find (or that other phone method if that's the kind of souvenir it is).

 

I also like the idea of souvenirs, in theory, for some of the general accepted more difficult challenges...like completing a Fizzy challenge or a Delorme challenge.

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Also, souvenirs are going to cause caches to be archived.

Original Stash Tribute Plaque (GCGV0P) is at risk of being archived right now due to issues with the souvenir Groundspeak associated with it.

Please, the owner of that cache needs to get off his high horse. He should be honored people want to log his cache. If he does "fly up to Portland myself to bust this Plaque out of the ground" and deny finding his historic spot to the rest of the world who has not found it, not only is he a jerk and a selfish nitwit but I will fly and replace it with a new plaque.

 

The spot is too important to not have a plaque there.

 

And besides, it should be a virtural.

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I think that community members ought to be able to express their opinions without having to resort to name calling.

 

Better yet, how about tabling the sideshow about the Original Stash Tribute and keep this thread focused on a constructive discussion of the Souvenirs feature?

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Well I think it's a cool idea.

 

Can we get a drama souvenir for people who get their knickers in a twist over every little thing?

 

Very good point! I think like 90% of this drama souvenirs will end in Germany, where the community of a certain geocaching forum (now slowly turning into an opencaching forum because all grass seems to be greener over there) is discussing this topic over and over. In german weblogs related to geocaching the Souvenirs-feature is widely been disliked as well.

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Hi, I'm James, a Groundspeak Lackey. I'd like to answer a couple of the common questions that have come up in this thread.

 

1) We will be granting souvenirs retroactively.

2) We will also be providing "opt-out" functionality for those users who don't want to receive souvenirs.

 

I'm happy to answer any other questions or address other comments that you all have.

 

Thanks!

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2) We will also be providing "opt-out" functionality for those users who don't want to receive souvenirs.

 

That's a more than resonable option. I hope it doesn't cause an increase in folks wanting to hide their find counts.

 

 

Q: Is there a specific submittal process for future Souvenirs or a specific contact person to suggest new ones?

 

Q: Is there a criteria for future Souvenirs?

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I hope it doesn't cause an increase in folks wanting to hide their find counts.

Interesting; I hadn't considered people specifically wanting that *not* to be an option. I have always thought about it like Facebook - it seems like some privacy in terms of who you'd like to see your find history could be nice for people who want that (either totally private, or just 'friends' can see your activity).

 

What's the other side of the coin?

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I'd like an option to hide them (I'm sure they are all nice looking but maybe I don't like how *that* one looks next to *this* one).

As like Castle noted above some might not want to show it off. I'm so far on the fence about that aspect of it.

 

seriously can you imagine an argument like this

 

You've only been caching for 3 days. Wait to say anything till you've been caching for a year.

 

*but I've got 50 finds

 

They are only micros in urban areas, and you can't say anything about regulars/virts until you've found 50 quality hides of those.

 

*but they are a large spread of diffculty and terrain.

 

You don't have any Souvenires yet. You may have an opinion when you have five of them

 

*cry

 

 

 

Note: I doubt a conversation would go exactly like that but you get the idea. :P

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I hope it doesn't cause an increase in folks wanting to hide their find counts.

Interesting; I hadn't considered people specifically wanting that *not* to be an option. I have always thought about it like Facebook - it seems like some privacy in terms of who you'd like to see your find history could be nice for people who want that (either totally private, or just 'friends' can see your activity).

 

What's the other side of the coin?

 

We'd have to discuss this in another thread. It's too far off topic. In short- it's how the game (on this website) has always been played. If you don't want your find count displayed then don't log the finds. Feel free to open up a new thread.

Edited by Castle Mischief
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I'm happy to answer any other questions or address other comments that you all have.

 

 

Q: Will the qualifiers for a Souvenir be limited to geographical location or a specific cache/cache series?

 

Q: Are there any specific qualifiers that will not be allowed for Souvenirs?

 

Q: Will cache owners be able to opt out of allowing a Souvenir to be awarded for their individual caches?

 

Q: Are there any fees or costs associated with creating/listing a Souvenir?

 

Q: Are there any guidelines/restrictions associated the actual art used in the Souvenir?

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We'd have to discuss this in another thread. It's too far off topic. In short- it's how the game (on this website) has always been played. If you don't want your find count displayed then don't log the finds. Feel free to open up a new thread.

I guess I just saw it in terms of opting out of souvenirs. I can see the arguments in favor of opting out of souvenirs as easily as I can see the arguments in favor of opting out of similar public accomplishments. I'd be interested in hearing more from James about it.

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We'd have to discuss this in another thread. It's too far off topic. In short- it's how the game (on this website) has always been played. If you don't want your find count displayed then don't log the finds. Feel free to open up a new thread.

I guess I just saw it in terms of opting out of souvenirs. I can see the arguments in favor of opting out of souvenirs as easily as I can see the arguments in favor of opting out of similar public accomplishments. I'd be interested in hearing more from James about it.

 

Oh well, that's on topic. :P

 

I just don't have a problem with it. It's not providing any information that's not already public. Anybody can see the finds that you've made if you log them online.

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Thanks for the good questions!

 

In regards to any questions about souvenir submission, we are not presently accepting souvenirs from users. If this changes at some time in the future, we will let the community know. As for an official channel to suggest new souvenirs, we will make such a channel open at such time as we're ready to handle such requests.

 

Q: Will the qualifiers for a Souvenir be limited to geographical location or a specific cache/cache series?

 

I assume that you are using the term "qualifiers" to refer to the criteria which much be met to receive a given souvenir. Please correct me if I'm wrong in this assumption. Some souvenirs are awarded for their geographical location, while others are awarded for attending a specific Mega-event. These are going to be the main types of souvenirs for the time being.

 

Q: Will cache owners be able to opt out of allowing a Souvenir to be awarded for their individual caches?

 

We are not intending to make souvenirs for individual caches for the time being.

 

We'd have to discuss this in another thread. It's too far off topic. In short- it's how the game (on this website) has always been played. If you don't want your find count displayed then don't log the finds. Feel free to open up a new thread.

I guess I just saw it in terms of opting out of souvenirs. I can see the arguments in favor of opting out of souvenirs as easily as I can see the arguments in favor of opting out of similar public accomplishments. I'd be interested in hearing more from James about it.

 

I'm a little unsure about what you'd like to hear from me. We are going to provide users a means to not receive souvenirs if that's what they want.

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