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Bagging Trade Items


Kirbert

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1.2 million geocaches out there sounds like it's late to suggest a change to this game, but I'm going to anyway. I would like to suggest that geocaching.com begin promoting the idea that every trade item in a geocache should be packaged in its own baggie. There is one area I have visited where this practice was popular -- Gainesville, FL -- and you simply wouldn't believe how much better it makes this sport. Rather than a whole bunch of rusty and worthless junk in the bottom of an ammo can, you find neatly packaged toys in pristine condition.

 

For those unaware, to outsiders that's one of the biggest criticisms of geocaching. "Why would I care about finding a box full of trash?" It's even nicknamed "geotrashing" by some of our critics. And, as you oldtimers know, it's been getting worse over time -- geocaches today tend to be far trashier than they were a few years ago, partly because the nice trade items tend to get replaced with lousy ones and partly because all the trade items deteriorate so badly in the caches, but it's evolved to the point it appears that geocachers are actually dropping off worthless trade items as though it's standard practice. Gives a whole new meaning to CITO.

 

Besides protecting the trade items, encouraging the bagging of every trade item would also discourage leaving stuff that's utterly worthless to begin with. If it's not worth a baggie, why leave it at all? Just throw it away.

 

I believe this idea calls for more than just a suggestion here on the forums. It calls for a guideline on the "getting started" page on geocaching.com (which doesn't seem to mention trade items at all, actually) and a one-time announcement sent to all geocachers. And the policy should be established that all non-baggied trade items in a geocache should be removed by the next finder and either cleaned up and baggied for dropping off somewhere else or just thrown away altogether. The rusty junk commonly found in geocaches today isn't doing anyone any good and it's harmful to the reputation of the hobby.

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Personally, I think that it is a better suggestion than a guideline. Here's another suggestion. It would be nice if cache owners of regular or larger sized caches left a large baggie for swag as well as a baggie for the log and trackables. Not only does the large baggie help to protect the swag, it also helps to keep things organized. With the swag (hopefully) neatly contained, those cachers who aren't interested in trading don't have to wade through the swag to locate the logbook.

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I agree. I have recently begun caching in the Ocala Nat. Forest and surrounding areas, I noticed very quickly how much nicer the cache containce looked, because it was bagged, than in some other areas I've cached in. This also leads to better swag. While I rarely trade, I do like to see a nicely presented cache, rather than a rusty box of junk. Neatness spreads as does messy rust. The choice is yours, what would you like to see in a cache?

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Here's something I posted 11 months ago:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=4114897

I still have the same opinion I had last year.

 

Regarding making a rule/guideline to bag all swag, I say no. Making a suggestion, that's OK. Leading by example is the way to go: place bagged swag, bag swag left by others, talk about this at events, show/give out baggies at events, and also raise awareness by posting in the forums.

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Just read this... an Idea with some merit... many caches look cluttered and full of ??

 

One problem I see is that many people don't really grasp how to deflate baggies/ziplocs... they just place stuff into them and seal it up... then you have to force them into the space available... This leads to broken items,

burst baggie seams, punctures... and in some cases broken lids and cases. I'm leaning toward the separate bags for the log books etc. Maybe something for isolating trackables from Swag items... However, there is the down side of that... makes it really handy for 'someone' to take them all in one swoop without spending time sorting the other stuff out... is that valid? They could just take the whole container as it stands NOW... and sometimes do!

 

So theft isn't all that different, Neatness and appearing not 'abandoned' is likely the big thing... one more item on the list of proving that a cache is far from litter... International registration, logging, maintenance and so on could be very important one day. As for organization in the field and a bit of protection... great.

 

Making it mandatory ( rule or guideline) good luck... I second the educate and promote idea... much else and you will simply have the unwilling cram the junk in the bags with the good stuff... and then not seal them up properly, leaving excess air or worse not sealing and leaving them open to whatever including dumping out when picked up next. The process requires a little more thought, but is an OK idea.

 

I'm waiting to see the result at small and micro containers :D

 

Doug 7rxc

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I've advocated bagging items in the past. Might even want to just wrap the swag in plastic wrap to keep it clean (won't keep it waterproof, but putting it all in one large bag in the cache should help there). I have seen swag I left in a baggie picked up and put in another cache container. It was in a baggie, but because the baggie was too big for the small container the item (a needlpointed refrigerator magnet) was removed from the bag and dumped in the cache. It was filthy and ruined. Frustrating.

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We buy small magnetic bookmarks and geocaching pins to leave as swag, and I buy tiny zip-loc baggies at the local craft store to put them in, since I've seen so many wet and rusty swag pieces in geocaches. We also leave little rubber duckies, which are waterproof, so I don't bother to wrap them. Log books should certainly be in baggies, but leave the pen or pencil OUT of the bag - it will punch a hole in the bag to let any water in the cache soak the logbook!

 

My pet peeve is finding wet wipes, bottles of bubble solution, or any sort of food or drink item in a cache (who would want to use an old package of drink mix powder that's been there who knows how long?) Anything with liquid can and will leak, especially in climates where freezing occurs over the winter, and the smell of candles, potpourri, etc. can attract wild animals to chew open the cache if it's a plastic container.

Edited by The VanDucks
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We buy small magnetic bookmarks and geocaching pins to leave as swag, and I buy tiny zip-loc baggies at the local craft store to put them in, since I've seen so many wet and rusty swag pieces in geocaches. We also leave little rubber duckies, which are waterproof, so I don't bother to wrap them. Log books should certainly be in baggies, but leave the pen or pencil OUT of the bag - it will punch a hole in the bag to let any water in the cache soak the logbook!

 

My pet peeve is finding wet wipes, bottles of bubble solution, or any sort of food or drink item in a cache (who would want to use an old package of drink mix powder that's been there who knows how long?) Anything with liquid can and will leak, especially in climates where freezing occurs over the winter, and the smell of candles, potpourri, etc. can attract wild animals to chew open the cache if it's a plastic container.

bubble solution is a pet peeve of mine too. and its always the dollar store crap and its always leaked all over everything and inside the cache is all slimey.

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All of our sig items are in tiny baggies. Must have spent a small fortune on baggies (actually all told right now....I think we spent a whopping $10 on thousands of baggies of all sizes. We use the 40% coupons at Michaels and Hobby Lobby). In our bigger caches, we enclose everything in a big freezer storage type baggie. And as for the comment someone made about people being ignorant and not closing baggies...it takes just as long to open it as it does to zip it shut. I hate wet logs as much as the next person....be considerate to your fellow cacher.

Question....I just bought several individual packets of wet-wipes to place in caches, should I make sure to double baggie those? They are already sealed.

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Putting everything in individual baggies would be creating alot of plastic waste, IMO. Something that a lot of cachers do here is place everything inside a bigger zipper baggie to protect the swag and log book from the elements. This would be one bag as opposed to many little bags.

My added suggestion would to encourage cachers to use containers that have a seal that will keep out the moisture and not create the situation to begin with.

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It would be nice if cache owners of regular or larger sized caches left a large baggie for swag as well as a baggie for the log and trackables. Not only does the large baggie help to protect the swag, it also helps to keep things organized.

 

The large baggie for swag is better than no baggie at all, for sure. However, usually this large baggie ends up getting torn up by being repeatedly opened by finders, by having the occasional jagged object inside it, and by being tugged and stuffed in and out of the cache container too many times. The individual baggies on trade items tend to go with the trade item itself, so a new trade item gets a new baggie, which helps insure that trade items are protected by intact baggies.

 

Regarding having to dig to find the log book, yeah, that is an advantage of the one large baggie for swag. However, with a cache full of individually bagged swag, it's not difficult to dig to find the log book.

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Something I forgot to mention: In some cases the trade item may have sharp points or edges. In such cases, having the item individually bagged also enables and encourages the practice of wrapping such items in a paper towel before putting them in the baggie, which protects not only the baggie but the finder digging through the container as well.

Edited by Kirbert
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Putting everything in individual baggies would be creating alot of plastic waste, IMO.

 

Not putting everything in individual baggies also creates a lot of plastic waste!

 

My added suggestion would to encourage cachers to use containers that have a seal that will keep out the moisture and not create the situation to begin with.

 

That'd be good, but there's still a lot of Gladware junk out there. It's understandable, I think; I know that, before I started geocaching and letterboxing, I expected all plastic food storage containers and film canisters to be watertight. It came as a surprise to learn that a true seal is a rarity in such items. The letterboxers on atlasquest.com have learned that Lock & Locks are the way to go, but geocachers as well as the letterboxers on letterboxing.org still often use unreliable plastic containers.

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Swag degradation is inevitable. Worthless junk in bags is still worthless junk. Rusty worthless junk is largely a result of poor container choice and people leaving metal objects in those inappropriate containers.

 

People have a hard time following the first rule of swag "trade up or trade even" so it doesn't seem likely that a new rule about bags is likely to be followed much. If people would use decent containers then at least there would be dry worthless junk to find.

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It would be nice if cache owners of regular or larger sized caches left a large baggie for swag as well as a baggie for the log and trackables. Not only does the large baggie help to protect the swag, it also helps to keep things organized.

 

The large baggie for swag is better than no baggie at all, for sure. However, usually this large baggie ends up getting torn up by being repeatedly opened by finders, by having the occasional jagged object inside it, and by being tugged and stuffed in and out of the cache container too many times. The individual baggies on trade items tend to go with the trade item itself, so a new trade item gets a new baggie, which helps insure that trade items are protected by intact baggies.

 

Regarding having to dig to find the log book, yeah, that is an advantage of the one large baggie for swag. However, with a cache full of individually bagged swag, it's not difficult to dig to find the log book.

 

You are right about the eventual deterioration of the large baggie, but an owner could easily replace it on a maintenance visit. I often carry a large baggie along with me that I will use to help protect the swag or a logbook that is in need of extra protection in a cache that I have found.

 

I do also individually bag some swag items that I trade, which could use some extra protection in a cache. (Books, metal items, new personal items that would not be appealing if they were dirty or wet, new items packaged in cardboard wrapping, etc.) I place these items in caches in the hope of making a future cacher happy. It makes sense to me to do what I can to keep them in good condition for others to find.

 

Baggies are a wonderful suggestion, and I would encourage their use. However, I don't think that the use of baggies on swag should be a guideline and the idea that cache owners would be encouraged to remove swag that is not individually bagged would cause undo drama. Really, it is best to leave it as a helpful suggestion.

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Swag degradation is inevitable. Worthless junk in bags is still worthless junk. Rusty worthless junk is largely a result of poor container choice and people leaving metal objects in those inappropriate containers.

 

It's clear you haven't visited an area where individually bagged trade items are the norm. It simply must be experienced to be believed. Swag degradation may be inevitable, but if so individual baggies must slow it by about 95%.

 

I dunno about you, but when I look through the swag in a cache, I find it pretty easy to tell which items were probably junk when they were first dropped off and which were probably nice enough that some kid might actually have wanted them except that they have degraded into absolute rubbish while they were in the cache. The latter is, in my experience, the much larger problem. Hence I hesitate to accuse other cachers of failing to trade fairly. It appears to me they are trading fairly for the most part, it's just that their trade items are deteriorating badly before anyone takes them.

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Really, it is best to leave it as a helpful suggestion.

 

I must say I am surprised at how many of you oppose the idea of making this a guideline -- even among those who agree that bagging is a good idea. I'm sure most of you are seeing the same level of deterioration of trade items inside caches that I'm seeing.

 

Oh, well, if it won't fly, it won't fly.

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Making it a guideline or rule that every single item be in its baggie regardless of what it is is, I'm sorry to say, a bit wasteful. Say for example I am dropping something that cannot be water damaged, would I be expected to bag it?

 

I mean, I have a bunch of items already in their packaging which I carry caching with me, should I double bag them? I can see bagging a "set" of items (perhaps a small sketchbook and pencils, or pencils and a sharpener) or very small items, but don't think it's helpful to try and enforce a rule.

 

I can see one large baggie for swag and a smaller one for the log as being a good idea, which is of course up to the CO to arrange and maintain, or good hearted cachers to replace on their visit if they happen to be prepared.

 

Also, the more rules in anything, the more people getting chapped about them. Either annoyed that the rule exists (extra expense, what if i forget to bag my item, what if...) or annoyed that they visited a cache that wasn't all bagged up.

 

So yeah, I'd say suggest it, but don't try and bring it in as a rule.

 

/2cents from a newbie

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Really, it is best to leave it as a helpful suggestion.

 

I must say I am surprised at how many of you oppose the idea of making this a guideline -- even among those who agree that bagging is a good idea. I'm sure most of you are seeing the same level of deterioration of trade items inside caches that I'm seeing.

 

Oh, well, if it won't fly, it won't fly.

 

If you're trying to stop swag degradation this won't do anything. People will just toss garbage into an existing baggy.

 

If you're trying to stop swag from getting ruined a baggy won't stop that and realistically will expedite the process of being moldy, disgusting and ruined. I'm somewhere where there are smaller containers mostly and a handful of ammo cans. We can trade swag and travel items in the small containers but frankly there is not enough room in them for 10 people to shove their stuff into a baggy.

 

It's expensive and wasteful. I'd rather not being throwing away baggies for every piece of swag I take home. And since I typically leave more than one item to trade in a cache I prefer to not go broke buying baggies that will only rot and degrade with the elements in the cache.

 

Yes I see the deterioration of items in the cache but I also see the cost involve, the space involved and the inherent problems with shoving stuff into a baggy.

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I think it’s down to common sense. I baggie up button badges (to stop them going rusty), and paper items (I have some cute tiny pads of post it notes cut into different shapes like a flower, a heart, a football shirt etc – these I put in a baggie with a novelty eraser), and anything else that could be damaged by damp. But I don’t baggie up hard plastic items that can take a bit of moisture.

 

I don’t see any harm in it being a guideline as long as that was all it was – a suggestion of best practice in the case of items that may need protection from damp and dirt – rather than a hard and fast rule.

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I put my swag in a freezer zip lock baggie. I also put the log in its own baggie.

 

I get the baggies for the logs at any pharmacy. They are actually different size pill bags & are the thickness of the freezer bags which helps them last longer.

 

It has helped to keep the stuff dryer if the container collects moisture.

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I find it pretty easy to tell which items were probably junk when they were first dropped off and which were probably nice enough that some kid might actually have wanted them except that they have degraded into absolute rubbish while they were in the cache. The latter is, in my experience, the much larger problem. Hence I hesitate to accuse other cachers of failing to trade fairly. It appears to me they are trading fairly for the most part, it's just that their trade items are deteriorating badly before anyone takes them.

 

This I agree with.

 

Most swag likely goes into the box in decent shape but eventually deteriorates. It's the whole outdoors thing - moisture, mold, leaves, twigs get into the cache. Sometimes mold develops. Good water tight containers are the key to preservation. Dirt and debris will still get in but to a lesser extent. Water becomes a minor issue with a good container.

 

Baggies will certainly help preserve the swag and make the item more desirable. I like that you are bringing this idea to people's attention. Maybe a few more people will start bagging their trade items and others will follow suit.

 

Of course, there will always be junk (bottle caps, torn bus tickets, broken toys). COs bear much of the responsibility in keeping the cache container neat and clean. Provide a water tight container and maybe a once-a-season maintenance visit to clear out junk, baggie up the good stuff, and add a couple of bagged trinkets.;)

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Individually wrapped pieces of swag? Like Xmas? No sir! No how! No way! We WILL NOT be doing this; we are very conscientious or our use of plastic bags in the home--let alone out in the wilderness. We embrace CITO and will not be bringing garbage out to GZ's; it is irresponsible and wasteful. If the container leaks, tell the CO maintenance needs to be done. If people put stuff in that is going to deteriorate then remove it and either use it your self or donate it. If it's rusty and moldy and wet, remove it and tell the CO maintenance needs to be done. We do carry a few large ziplocks with us to replace ones that have seen better days, but we are definitely thumbs down on the individually wrapped items.

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I just started - but the first two caches I found (which were quite active according to the logs) were dirty and wet and had little of interest in them -especially for kids, who I expect are a big part of the hobby. So I took them home, cleaned them, dried the logs and laminated them (and added new ones), bagged everything that needed protection - and added a couple of small bags with items that kids could take as one. Now they look the way they should.

 

I think one of the best ways to encourage this is to start taking pictures of pristine caches - to help set the standard in people's eyes.

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I just started - but the first two caches I found (which were quite active according to the logs) were dirty and wet and had little of interest in them -especially for kids, who I expect are a big part of the hobby. So I took them home, cleaned them, dried the logs and laminated them (and added new ones), bagged everything that needed protection - and added a couple of small bags with items that kids could take as one. Now they look the way they should.

 

 

:blink:

 

Did anyone log a DNF while you had the cache at home?

 

Apart from you taking them home, I have mixed feelings about this whole idea of cleaning up someone else's cruddy cache. If the CO isn't taking care of his cache, maybe it's time to archive it and open up the area for someone else to hide a cache.

 

I've done some minor maintenance on caches whose owners have left the game, if I felt there was a good reason to keep the cache going. But for an ordinary cache, with an absent owner, I say hit the NA button.

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:signalviolin:

 

Did anyone log a DNF while you had the cache at home?

 

Apart from you taking them home, I have mixed feelings about this whole idea of cleaning up someone else's cruddy cache. If the CO isn't taking care of his cache, maybe it's time to archive it and open up the area for someone else to hide a cache.

 

I've done some minor maintenance on caches whose owners have left the game, if I felt there was a good reason to keep the cache going. But for an ordinary cache, with an absent owner, I say hit the NA button.

 

I agree here - if you are going to place a cache, you should maintain it. It's OK for finder to do minor maintenance (e.g. remove twigs, dry moisture, etc) but not 'fix' the cache itself - that is the role of the CO. I carry duct tape & other 'stuff' in my caching bag but anything I do is a temporary fix / repair until the CO can do it properly.

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I just started - but the first two caches I found (which were quite active according to the logs) were dirty and wet and had little of interest in them -especially for kids, who I expect are a big part of the hobby. So I took them home, cleaned them, dried the logs and laminated them (and added new ones), bagged everything that needed protection - and added a couple of small bags with items that kids could take as one. Now they look the way they should.

 

I think one of the best ways to encourage this is to start taking pictures of pristine caches - to help set the standard in people's eyes.

I think what you did was the best way to upset the cachers that followed you trying to find those hides while you had them at home. If the caches were in that bad of shape..... log a NM or a NA if several previous NMs had been logged.

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If the stuff inside is that bad, report it to the owner and try to get it in a new container that does seal properly. Properly sealed containers should not have the degradation problem.... of course putting items that are not likely to rust or degrade after a year is preferred as well.

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Making it a guideline or rule that every single item be in its baggie regardless of what it is is, I'm sorry to say, a bit wasteful. Say for example I am dropping something that cannot be water damaged, would I be expected to bag it?

 

Yes, actually! That's why I'm saying you really need to experience this to appreciate it. Even completely impervious items such as golf balls and rubber erasers, despite not being destroyed by water, still end up looking grungy after bopping around inside an ammo can for a while. Sure, perhaps you could take them home and clean them up and use them, but you're not tempted to. The same items, wrapped in baggies, look new and desirable for months, perhaps years.

 

I mean, I have a bunch of items already in their packaging which I carry caching with me, should I double bag them?

 

Usually. Probably depends on the packaging. A lot of toys come packaged on "bubble cards", plastic front with a cardboard back. These end up in three pieces inside a cache, the cardboard back rotting in the bottom, the plastic cover bouncing around in there somewhere, and the toy itself looking grungy. If the entire package had been bagged, it would remain literally new.

 

Also, the more rules in anything, the more people getting chapped about them. Either annoyed that the rule exists (extra expense, what if i forget to bag my item, what if...) or annoyed that they visited a cache that wasn't all bagged up.

 

True enough, but a lot of people are getting annoyed now at all the worthless junk in caches.

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And the cost to me to dispose of them when I get stuff out of a cache. And the cost to the environment that now has a bunch of little plastic bags in landfills from geocachers.

 

And you're making assumptions about the availability of craft baggies or even that craft baggies would hold the swag that all of us leave behind. And then assumptions about how well cheap baggies actually protect the stuff you leave in a cache...

 

When stuff is shoved into a baggy and left behind it promotes condensation and moisture is held in that baggy. I've found quite a few moldy things in nice little baggies in caches. Also found stuff shoved in cheap baggies that quickly deteriorated because of the elements and did no good other than to take up room in a cache.

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