Is This Allowed?

[+BaylorGrad]

Hi Everyone,

 

I've looked through a few pages of logs, and I hadn't seen this answer anywhere, so I thought I should ask... Can I hide a cache up in a tree? In other words, the cacher would have to climb the tree to retrieve the cache. Of course, the cache terrain rating would be fairly high... But I just don't know whether this is allowed--I love climbing trees, and this would be a fun idea of a cache for me, but at the same time, I wouldn't want anyone to get injured attempting to find my cache. Is Geocaching a play-at-your-own-risk sport?

 

Anyway, suggestions? Thanks!

[+GeoGeeBee]

Of course it's allowed. There are tons of them out there.

[+addisonbr]

It depends on the local rules and regulations, but there's no geocaching rule against it. Examples abound.

 

It never hurts to tell people on the cache page what to expect, and putting in some "at your own risk" language is a good way to remind people to be careful and responsible.

[+Z_Statman]

Also set the Terr/Diff appropriately, at least a 2.5 as I recall

[+BaylorGrad]

Thanks! I realize my question might seem obvious, but I've mainly done urban caches thus far, and haven't come across one of this type yet myself.

[+Brooklyn51]

Just one of many examples..

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...96-0c514d0e7b66

[+briansnat]

The terrain rating would depend on the difficulty of climbing the tree. I have one in a pine tree that is almost as easy as climbing a ladder so I rated it 2.5 stars. I know of one that requires climbing equipment to reach and that is deservedly rated 5 stars for terrain.

[+Tequila]

It is allowed as long as you don't nail the cache to the tree. Otherwise, you can hang the container anywhere in the tree you want.

[+buttaskotch]

Yep its allowed, but take a look at your local park rules to see if doesn't violate any of them. I found that out the hard way with 2 of my caches here in NYC.

Have fun and good luck!

[GPS-Hermit]

It is a great idea but would seriously limit the number of folks that would attempt the find, so does the rating itself. I recommend for safety sake, please use a tree that can be climbed by an average climber and does not damage the tree itself. Sounds like the climber would have to exit the tree to retrieve the contents and climb again to replace it. So you might want to plan how that would be done safely and fun. I would put the rating higher than a 3 to begin with and add comments of risk accessment before attempting the find. Not sure how I would feel if I hiked a mile to find out I had to climb a tree and was not a climbing person, or the bark was damp and slippery. The rating is for terrain/difficulty and a tree not what you are thinging about while considering either.

 

I personally feel this would be a fun cache - I think it might be better for most to explain about the tree. Each person can consider the risk on their own, but a few words of caution are usually appreciated by most cachers.

Damp bark, for example, might not be an obvious hazzard to everyone!

 

Put it up there! But give it lots of thought and make it fun!

[+DragonsWest]

Do keep in mind that trees are not static, like say, a concrete abutment, they change and are subject to growth, loss of limbs. They can also be damaged by climbing. Be sure the tree under consideration is up to the task and estimate how long you plan the cache to be in place and how you will be able to retrieve the cache when archiving.

[+ncfinn]

Make sure the tree is not rotten and can support a person weighing more than 100 pounds.

 

It does not have to be an easy climb - not all caches were meant to be found by all.

 

Yes, the difficulty rating is the key, but you do not have to reveal in the description that it is high up.

[+geobrian-]

<snips>.. Yes, the difficulty rating is the key, but you do not have to reveal in the description that it is high up.

Not putting a height indication in the text could present someone like myself at 5'1", with a problem and possibly a wasted journey/hike. The difficulty rating doesn't seem to present enough of a guideline to be useful in that respect.

 

*edited for clarity*

Edited October 1, 2010 by geobrian-

[+sdrawkcab]

Hi Everyone,

 

I've looked through a few pages of logs, and I hadn't seen this answer anywhere, so I thought I should ask... Can I hide a cache up in a tree? In other words, the cacher would have to climb the tree to retrieve the cache. Of course, the cache terrain rating would be fairly high... But I just don't know whether this is allowed--I love climbing trees, and this would be a fun idea of a cache for me, but at the same time, I wouldn't want anyone to get injured attempting to find my cache. Is Geocaching a play-at-your-own-risk sport?

 

Anyway, suggestions? Thanks!

Here are a couple of examples here in Fort Worth. One is extreem and one is mine...

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...6-58182c833069# Extreem

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...8-29b61929dfd2#

Not so extreem but mine.

[+Taoiseach]

It is a great idea but would seriously limit the number of folks that would attempt the find

 

Oh right... Walmart parking lot micro it is!

[+Chokecherry]

I would be prepared to evaluate your feelings about team finds as that seems to come up here on/off with tree hides. Some people use their team member to climb up and retrieve it and everyones signs.

 

If you feel like that is going to chew on some nerve of yours I would reconsider it.

[+BaylorGrad]

You all have great suggestions.

 

I particularly appreciate the suggestion about making sure the tree can support a good amount of weight. I'm only about 120-130 pounds, so I'd have to make sure it's climbable for others.

 

I haven't decided on a location yet, but I don't want to put it in an isolated area. (Like many of you said, I don't want something like wet bark to prevent a cacher from climbing, especially if they've had to hike a mile!) In fact, I'll most likely stick to urban/suburban. I guess the camo had better be good, huh?

 

Thanks for all the great pointers and ideas!

[+DragonsWest]

You all have great suggestions.

 

I particularly appreciate the suggestion about making sure the tree can support a good amount of weight. I'm only about 120-130 pounds, so I'd have to make sure it's climbable for others.

 

I haven't decided on a location yet, but I don't want to put it in an isolated area. (Like many of you said, I don't want something like wet bark to prevent a cacher from climbing, especially if they've had to hike a mile!) In fact, I'll most likely stick to urban/suburban. I guess the camo had better be good, huh?

 

Thanks for all the great pointers and ideas!

 

There's always throwing a piece of fishing line over a branch, hoisting a camo'd container (which is appropriate for the tree, some lose leafs, even in sunny California) and conceal the other end of the line.

 

Best of luck.

 

Oh, and watch out for Poison Oak, Poison Ivy and/or Poison Sumac - your finders will be grateful.

[+Darren V]

This cache (click here) it REALLy high up in a tree and is out in the woods with a ton of confusing trails going every where. The cache page has no directions to the cache... ya, it's a 5/5

It's got some pretty good reviews

[+Ecylram]

It is a great idea but would seriously limit the number of folks that would attempt the find

 

Oh right... Walmart parking lot micro it is!

Be sure to pick a busy Walmart and place the cache near the entrance. Next to a security camera is perfect.

[+AlohaBra and MaksMom]

What happens is some folks will claim the find because it is too dangerous to sign the log at their age......

 

Would you delete their log??

[+Taoiseach]

What happens is some folks will claim the find because it is too dangerous to sign the log at their age......

 

Would you delete their log??

 

Well, that's why you make it a skirtlifter in the Walmart parking lot!

 

Remember, the ultimate goal is for every cache to match the find count of Vaclavak in a single day!

[+BaylorGrad]

UPDATE

 

Ok folks, tomorrow morning I'm going to hide the cache that I spoke of before. I'm not sure how high it will be in the tree, but I want to make it high enough that I will use climbing gear. (I'm a moderately experienced rock climber, so I will be using ropes, a harness, and climbing shoes to set the cache--none of these are necessary, but are obviously precautions for my own safety.)

 

The cache itself is about 4x1x2 inches, so it's about the size of 2.5 film canisters. The plan is to tether the cache to the tree using strong twine that matches the color of the tree. I have camo'ed the cache by meticulously supergluing bark and twigs (from the exact same tree!) to the outside of the cache. I realize that this is a fragile camo method, and I fully expect to have to find a better method. The cache location will be about .15 miles (15 hundredths of a mile) from my residence, so I'll have plenty of opportunity to check on the cache.

 

I'm REALLY excited about setting this one up. It's my first cache, and I didn't want it to be a LPC or stereotypical urban micro--I'm better than that!

 

I'll reasses this tomorrow after I put the cache at GZ, but I believe the rating will be 2-2.5 difficulty, 4.5 terrain. (The lowest tree branch is about 7 feet from the ground, so it requires a significant boost, or the ability to lift your own body weight. Also, the near-necessity for safety / climbing gear adds to the terrain.)

 

Honestly, as far as "FINDING" the cache is concerned... I'll probably say that I feel that unless you fulfilled the terrain requirement, you didn't earn the cache--but that I will also not strictly monitor this for compliance either. If you feel like you really, actually EARNED the cache, then feel free to log it.

 

Something to that effect.

 

Suggestions? Comments? I'm excited!

 

(Oh, I should also add that this tree is in a park, but not a heavily wooded park by any stretch of the imagination. The tree is actually at the intersection of the two main roads in the park, so things like poison ivy won't be an issue. Muggles on the other hand...!)

Edited October 15, 2010 by BaylorGrad

[+dfx]

Honestly, as far as "FINDING" the cache is concerned... I'll probably say that I feel that unless you fulfilled the terrain requirement, you didn't earn the cache--but that I will also not strictly monitor this for compliance either. If you feel like you really, actually EARNED the cache, then feel free to log it.

be careful with how you word that, someone might mistakenly understand it as an ALR. that being said, be prepared for group finds: one cacher goes up the tree while a bunch of other cachers watch. the first one signs everyone in and everybody claims the find.

[+The Blorenges]

Good luck with setting your challenging cache. I'll probably put it on our Watchlist, as I have this similar one in Australia

 

"The tallest tree in the forest"

 

There was quite a kerfuffle over that one during May '10 when there was a "group assault" on the cache and one person brought the cache log down to earth and all many of those attending logged Finds. The owner was not a happy bunny and for a while he down-graded the rating to T1*

I can totally understand his frustration but it's very difficult to enforce any requirement that those who log finds must have done the physical challenge of the climb.

 

MrsB

[+addisonbr]

The plan is to tether the cache to the tree using strong twine that matches the color of the tree. I have camo'ed the cache by meticulously supergluing bark and twigs (from the exact same tree!) to the outside of the cache

...

I believe the rating will be 2-2.5 difficulty, 4.5 terrain

That sounds like a bang-up camo job, which is great, but especially when you add that you have to make the search wearing climbing gear and dangling several meters in the air, the difficulty might be a little low.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

What happens is some folks will claim the find because it is too dangerous to sign the log at their age......

 

Would you delete their log??

 

I would, yes. I don't have scuba equipment, but I don't claim smileys on scuba caches just because I can't get them.

 

Not all caches have to be able to be found by everyone.

[+BaylorGrad]

UPDATE

 

I spent an hour and a half setting this cache this morning--wow! I haven't been rock climbing (or tree climbing) in awhile, so I actually had to get used to the height element again! Anyway, when it was all said and done, I decided to only place the cache about halfway up the tree (about 25 feet).

 

If/When the cache is published, its GC code is GC2GQYG. I'm awaiting the review.

 

So excited. Did I mention this is my first cache?

[+Coldgears]

It is allowed as long as you don't nail the cache to the tree. Otherwise, you can hang the container anywhere in the tree you want.

Why? I've seen many caches like that?

[+Klondike Mike]

Around here some tree climb caches tend to migrate to within reaching distance of the ground.

[+slukster]

Just one of many examples..

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...96-0c514d0e7b66

I was just going to link to my cache when I saw you beat me to it.

 

I actually have a recent found log from a newbie saying they saw it but chickened out to retrieve it. I am going to contact them to ask them to delete the log explaining the reason I ask that someone make the climb. As far as group finds go, there really isn't much you can do if they pass the cache down for everyone to log. I ofcourse would prefer if all made the climb but as long as they signed the log there isn't much I can do. I do like to see in the logs wording something like "I didn't have the guts to make the climb so JohnyTheBrave made the climb and passed the cache down to me" At least they are admitting they didn't complete the challenge of the climb.

 

There was one cacher who had found it when I listed it on another tree climbing cache as a "bonus cache" and he said that his buddy climbed up to get it. When I finally listed it as an official cache he logged bragging about how he FTF'ed it which was a bit annoying since he didn't really make the climb but nothing to lose sleep over.

Edited October 16, 2010 by slukster

[+cw1710]

I hung a flare tube about 20 feet up a tree. It was attached with paracord. The squirrels chewed through the cord twice now and the cache is currently disabled. I now have a short section of light metal chain from Lowe's to go wrap around a branch and hook it to. Moral of the story: Use something the wildlife can't hurt or you will be climbing the tree over and over again for maintenance.

[+The Blorenges]

UPDATE

 

I spent an hour and a half setting this cache this morning--wow! I haven't been rock climbing (or tree climbing) in awhile, so I actually had to get used to the height element again! Anyway, when it was all said and done, I decided to only place the cache about halfway up the tree (about 25 feet).

 

If/When the cache is published, its GC code is GC2GQYG. I'm awaiting the review.

 

So excited. Did I mention this is my first cache?

 

 

Added to my Watchlist.

 

MrsB

[+BaylorGrad]

UPDATE

 

The cache was published around 7:00 p.m. yesterday (Friday) evening. It's now just after 7:00 p.m. on Saturday, and no finds yet! I met a cacher at GZ, who has since written a log about his (unsuccessful) visit.

 

The FTF is still up for grabs!

 

I appreciate the comment about finding wildlife-proof attachment devices... I know I'm going to have to update that soon... The good news is that this tree is relatively isolated--that is, wildlife (even squirrels) are not abundant in the area. Let's see what happens over the next couple of weeks.

[+jmlytle]

It is allowed as long as you don't nail the cache to the tree. Otherwise, you can hang the container anywhere in the tree you want.

Why? I've seen many caches like that?

I was curious about that comment as well. I'm under the impression nails are more tree friendly then string/rope being tied to a tree. This coming from 5 years of landscape experience and some basic web search. :-)

 

HGTV

Tree House Guide

 

After doing a few searches I came across a couple older Groundspeak threads on the topic:

"Trees" - how far is too far?

Be Kind to Trees

 

If you don't have the time to read through them, the general consensus was - get permission to do whatever you're gonna do, whether it be nailing, screwing, tying, wrapping, cutting, sawing, burning, or exploding...

 

Hmm, may have gotten carried away there ;-) In all seriousness tho - if the owner of the tree does not have a problem with what you're doing, as far as the reviewers are concerned, it's allowable for geocaching.

 

I hope I haven't misquoted anyone in anyway. Sincerest apologies if I have.

[+BaylorGrad]

^ You make a good point and post interesting links. Although this is a public park owned by the city, I will be careful about maintaining the cache and making sure that the tree is undamaged. Thanks for bringing this up.

[+jmlytle]

^ You make a good point and post interesting links. Although this is a public park owned by the city, I will be careful about maintaining the cache and making sure that the tree is undamaged. Thanks for bringing this up.

Kinda wish my local was close to yours, would love to attempt this cache! Considering hiding a similar one close to me...

[+Sol seaker]

I appreciate it that you've put the recommendation for ropes and climbing gear in there.

 

It is possible for people to die from a fall from 25 feet. There are, however, many dangerous caches out there, I think it's just important to make that clear on the cache page and I think you have done that.

 

It's good to have more challenging caches around.

 

I agree with what someone put about how temporary the rope or twine holding the cache is.

 

It will rot in short time if an animal doesn't get to it first, so keep a good eye on it. Wouldn't want it falling on someone's head.

 

I've seen people use wire hangers to put caches up in trees. They've made a hook on one end of the hanger and straightened out the rest.

 

One that I saw was barely reachable from the ground. You had to unhook it and lower it down.

 

You could use a shorter hook or wrap it around the tree branch. I guess you'd have to make it pretty big to not cut off the circulation as the tree grew.

 

Looks like a fun cache!!

[+TerraViators]

I've climbed a few trees to get a smiley, but I don't like it.

[+T_M_H]

Ok, so I needed to share my experience today with some people that would appreciate it. I did not want to create a new thread but this is the perfect spot for it. I think I am having my mid-life crisis....honey I know what I want for Xmas, a climbing harness! LOL

 

GC2B267

[+Frogglin]

I was curious about that comment as well. I'm under the impression nails are more tree friendly then string/rope being tied to a tree. This coming from 5 years of landscape experience and some basic web search. :-)

 

A rope slung over a branch, or loosely tied is much better than a nail - nails can let disease into the tree once they're removed, and even if the nail is grotty when it's put in. Anything that breaches the bark and enters the core of the tree is a risk for that - the tree will probably heal once the nail is removed, but may not do it fast enough to prevent infection.

 

As long as the rope/chain/string/knitting yarn isn't tight around the tree, it's a better option. Even having said that, some trees will simply grow bark over the string. It is possible to ringbark a tree with repeated moving of a tight rope however, so it's worth making sure there's a little slack in the rope to allow for movement, and to allow for tree growth. Also attach to a branch rather than the trunk.

[+BaylorGrad]

^ The cache is attached to a branch, and not to the trunk. So far, the cache has been published for over 2.5 days, and no finds yet. I have met several individuals at GZ who have looked up in the tree and then laughed. One of them just simply said, "I'm too old for this @#$%!"

 

And yes--I definitely feel that safety / climbing gear is important. I would never make that climb without ropes and a harness.

 

This upcoming weekend, I plan to replace the very-temporary twine with something else... I'm thinking zip-ties. You know what I mean? Those things. I think they'll be a bit more permanant, but I might have to buy brown spraypaint to camo them a bit, because Winter is coming up, and then the cache will be fairly exposed (even 25 feet up) when all the leaves fall off the tree...

[+deercreekth]

Now I know where GZ is.

 

I got out of work late Friday and did a drive-by just out of curiosity. It was already dark and the Y was closed(didn't realize they close early on Friday) so I didn't get close enough to find out what kind of climbing is involved. So now I know it's ~25 ft. up a tree. Very interesting.