Do's and Don'ts for Multi-Geocache Hides

[+Headhardhat]

Hey All,

 

I was asked to do a Geocaching tutorial on hiding a multi-geocache and wondered if you would mind giving me some suggestions on the proper dos and don'ts, likes and dislikes.

 

What are too many stages, are there too few?

Do you prefer physical objects to find or solving tough mathematical problems?

 

What makes or breaks a multi-geocache for you?

 

Would appreciate all the feedback I can get so I can incorporate it into the GeoSnippits.

 

Thanks as always,

 

-HHH

 

headhardhat@gmail.com if you want to email me directly.

[+Ambrosia]

I think it's nice when the description gives you an idea of how many stages/how long it will be. A lot of people will skip a multi if they don't know how long they have to commit beforehand.

[MisterEFQ]

We have only found two (and started several others) and the difference between the two where the size of the final.

 

I did enjoy the one that had a micro as the final cache, but I would have prefered it to be a small and bigger size cache like the second one we found.

[+brenda&&rew]

I am not a big fan of multis but if the multi is a good one where the stages lead me to interesting places or sights, or has a bit of a challenge to find or figure out the next stage, etc I will do it.

 

I dislike the multis that lead you to a location that just redirects you to finding a film cannister hanging in the tree, that redirects you to another film cannister, etc. Those are IMO a waste of time. Especially if it is just leading you from one end of the park to another and back again with nothing interesting to do or see. Not fun!

 

I agree that if is always nice to have an idea how many stages there is. I don't care if I know exactly because the element of surprise is good but if it will take more than an hour or is it a quick redirect to the final. That way I know how much time I need to have to allow to find the final.

[+Bear and Ragged]

I like finding information to get numbers.

 

Historic site, with boards telling you things about the item/area etc.

Gather information to convert to numbers/get numbers from dates etc.

 

Then find the box!

 

(It's nice to have an idea of how many stages, and distance likely to be traveled.

Time taken would be nice, but depends on a lot of other factors like caching alone, purely to get the cache -can be done quickly- or caching with young children, and taking your time to look around -takes longer to do!)

 

The Stamford Taurus is a good example of what I like, multi-cache wise. GCC5B7

[+geodarts]

What are too many stages, are there too few?

Do you prefer physical objects to find or solving tough mathematical problems?

 

What makes or breaks a multi-geocache for you?

 

I like multis that have a reason to be a multi -- examples that come to mind are an offset that uses a historical plaque where a traditional would not work or one that uses various stages to keep you on trail. I don't like multis that seem to be placed for the sole purpose of having multiple hides -- examples might be two or more bison tubes hanging from trees in the same park or ones that have no common theme between the locations.

 

It helps when multis give some indication of how many stages or how far the final stage might be. I have been to more than one multi and discovered that I did not have the time to complete the cache. I might have been able to plan things out differently had I known. In planning an upcoming trip, I noticed a multi that has two virtual stages in an area where we will be, but the third physical stage is in outside of the immediate location at some unknown distance. Without knowing how far away it will be -- we will not be renting a car -- it does not seem worth it to even gather the necessary information.

 

A tough mathematical formulation would be a breaker for me. Save those for puzzle caches that I can easily ignore. I don't want to work out complicated formulas in the field. In planning for our trip, I noticed a multi where people have had trouble with the formula being used. It does not make me want to do it.

 

I generally exclude multis from my pq when traveling -- there is only so much I can do with a non-caching family -- and the search is the least important thing about caching for me. If I have time I will see if I happen to notice if there is a short offset in a historical site or other interesting location. In short, give me some reason to do a multi other than to see how many containers you can hide.

Edited September 30, 2010 by mulvaney

[+Chokecherry]

I'm not a multi fan but will do them occasionally.

 

I have to carefully plan my caching days. I want to know how many stages there are from the get go and how much territory I'm going to be covering. Are we talking miles or blocks?

 

I don't mind physical stages if they are maintained. Unfortunately they're not always maintained and really nothing is more annoying than to get to stage 3 and find it's missing or unreadable...

 

Virtual stages I don't want to do complex math. It's too much of pain for me to manage the paper and writing down the stage coordinates etc.

 

Send me somewhere interesting in the stages. Better yet tell me why I'm at those stages. (but I like caches that have some history or information with them).

 

I prefer multis that aren't just out there because someone wanted to toss a multi. Put some thought into it and make it meaningful. Appropriately rate it as well. As in you rate for the hardest part of the multi.

[+briansnat]

I enjoy good multis but don't care for multis for the sake of multis. In a well designed multi, each stage will have a purpose beyond simply being another stop. In the best multis the stages will each bring me to a place of interest, or at the very least direct me along a scenic, or otherwise interesting route.

 

I think 3-5 stages are best for multis. For me anything more than about 5 becomes tedious.

 

So under dos:

Every stage should have a purpose (e.g. highlight a location of interest) and could stand alone nicely as a traditional cache.

 

Don'ts:

Don't use inferior containers for your stages. It is no fun to find coordinates that are unreadable because they have washed out or the paper is disintegrating.

[+brenda&&rew]

 

Don'ts:

Don't use inferior containers for your stages. It is no fun to find coordinates that are unreadable because they have washed out or the paper is disintegrating.

 

YES! I agree very much... there is nothing worse than having completed the first 3 of a 5 stage multi (for example) and then finding stage 4 is not rain-proof and there is no way to read the coordinates for the final stage!!!!

[Skippermark]

Keep "hard" stages towards the beginning of the cache. Don't make someone hike a mile to a stage that they may possibly DNF. Frustrating for the finder.

 

I prefer multis that have a purpose and take me a certain way, to show me a view, a cool foundation or something that I might have missed if the cache was a traditional and I went a different way than intended to find it. Make the cache have a purpose.

 

Off-set multis work well if there's an interesting plaque, but the area is too busy for a cache. Gather some info off the plaque, figure the coords and head off into the woods a short distance and find a cache. Keep math simple. Save hard math for puzzles you can work on at home.

 

I think it's cool if a cache uses "stuff" that's in the area, like a mile marker on a bike trail, or a "pole number" on a telephone pole in the woods, things like that, but that's not always possible.

 

Here's an example of a clever multi we once did. At least two people were needed to find it. Cachers A & B get a set of coords at a stage along the way. The instructions say for one cacher (Cacher A) to go to those coordinates and look for another stage while Cacher B waits behind. After finding the container, Cacher A then uses a radio or cell phone to call Cacher B with the coordinates for the stage they must find. When Cacher B goes to those coordinates, there's another set of coords that they must relay back to Cacher A.

 

It goes back and forth like that for a couple times, and eventually, both teams end up with the coordinates to the final, where they both meet up to find it. The cache was really involved and took a few hours to complete, but it was a blast because you're doing all sorts of things back and forth and anxiously awaiting to see what your next "challenge" is. There were also a couple traditional caches along the trail that mixed it up too.

 

There could be lots of variations on a cache like that. The final cache could be padlocked and the "waiting behind" team ends up at a stage that has a key to get into the final. That way they're forced to hike out to the "far away" location and visit the final together so that the "away" team can't just sign everyone in.

[+hukilaulau]

i have disliked guided tours since I was a kid. So I don't like multi's that claim to "show you all the high points" of an area. I'd rather find them myself.

I've also quit in the middle of multi's in large parks or open lands because I just get bored with following someone else's route.

I like multi's where the first stage is at the best parking, and the main cache is somewhere down the trail.

I like that better than seperate parking coords.

I like a multi that eventually leads you back near the start

I don't like a multi that leaves you in some pointless spot far from the start.

[+Ecylram]

WARNING: Off Topic

 

Just want to say "Thank You" to HeadHardHat for the videos you've done (and to Geoness)!

 

They helped us break into this hobby/sport/obsession. We know the videos took a lot of work to produce, but we definitely appreciate your efforts.

[+ngrrfan]

What I want to know about a multi is:

 

How many stages?

How far total will I travel? - I don't want to do a multi where the final will be 20 miles away from the start.

 

As for "Don'ts"

 

Don't make me do complicated computations in the field.

Don't make me use a computer to find an answer.

Don't use obscure clues. I'm out for fun, not to have someone make me feel like an idiot because I can't figure something out.

[+addisonbr]

A tough mathematical formulation would be a breaker for me. Save those for puzzle caches that I can easily ignore. I don't want to work out complicated formulas in the field. In planning for our trip, I noticed a multi where people have had trouble with the formula being used. It does not make me want to do it.

Keep math simple. Save hard math for puzzles you can work on at home.

Don't make me do complicated computations in the field.

Does it become okay if there is fair warning?

 

I have a complicated multi with a lot of information to gather, and so the equation does have a number of variables. But the equation is presented on the cache page ahead of time, and seekers are warned to bring a calculator in the short description on the cache page...

[+Coldgears]

I love your geo-snippets... I always get joy out of watching them... Anyway, for me the major thing is I like to have the caches within walking distance. If you have to drive from one to another there is no reason they can't be separate!

[+briansnat]

What I want to know about a multi is:

 

How many stages?

How far total will I travel? - I don't want to do a multi where the final will be 20 miles away from the start.

 

That is a good point. You should mention how much effort is to be invested in a multi. I know when I travel I filter out multis because the last thing I want to do is is start a cache hunt that I don't have the time to complete. Unfortunately I'm probably filtering out some excellent multis that would easily fit into my time constraints.

 

Mention the number of stages up front, or at least estimate the amount of time necessary to complete it. And if it is a long distance multi you should state that up front.

[Skippermark]

Does it become okay if there is fair warning?

 

I have a complicated multi with a lot of information to gather, and so the equation does have a number of variables. But the equation is presented on the cache page ahead of time, and seekers are warned to bring a calculator in the short description on the cache page...

I think that's okay. I wouldn't want to be surprised in the middle of a cache, especially if a calculator was needed.

 

I've been very interested in doing your complicated multi for awhile because friends give it rave reviews, but I've been having a hard time finding someone to make the trip. I think it would be fun with a small group.

[knowschad]

My off-the-cuff guess would be that maybe 90% or more of multi-caches are placed by exuberant newbies. We see it here in the forums. Cachers with very few finds, and even fewer hides, asking us our opinions about often very elaborate hides. I was "guilty" of that myself in my first few months. It isn't always bad... I can think of two of my own "over-elaborate" hides that I would love to have found. But generally there is no reason for them to exist other than to be more elaborate than a traditional, and that is insufficient, in my experience.

[+popokiiti]

We did a two stage multi, short walks to both stages from parking and in pretty areas. It was our first, and we feel now that the stages are too far apart. A 15 - 20 minute car ride from a semi-rural park to a little trail in the country. The drive itself is lovely, taking in some great scenery and is close to beaches and other parks, but it is still a fair distance. So, I would say, don't place stages too far apart, unless you make a note in the cache description. I totally agree with Coldgear's comments on this.

[+niraD]

Does it become okay if there is fair warning?

 

I have a complicated multi with a lot of information to gather, and so the equation does have a number of variables. But the equation is presented on the cache page ahead of time, and seekers are warned to bring a calculator in the short description on the cache page...

If it requires a calculator, then I'd list it as a mystery/puzzle cache. That starts to feel more like an on-site puzzle than a multi to me.

 

Anyway, I'll echo a few points that have been made by others already:

 

Make sure all the stages have a point. I've enjoyed walking tours of public art that took me to half a dozen pieces, before taking me to the final cache. But visiting half a dozen unrelated locations isn't fun. Offset caches fit this model nicely: The first stage is somewhere the cache owner wants to show you, and the final is somewhere nearby that can support a cache hide.

 

Make everything as durable and as muggle-proof as possible. One of the common complaints about multi-caches is that you invest time finding the earlier stages, only to come up short when a later stage or the final cache itself is missing.

 

Tell me what I'm getting into up front. I won't enjoy finding stage after stage with no end in sight, but if you tell me that it's a 45-stage adventure, then I'll plan accordingly and I might even save the cache for a personal milestone. I won't enjoy being surprised that the final is 20 miles away, but if you tell me the approximate distance up front, then I can plan accordingly and enjoy the adventure. (But again, make sure all the stages have a point.)

 

Finally, some general advice that applies to any hide:

 

Have fun. Make sure it's the kind of multi-cache that you would enjoy, the kind of multi-cache that you'll enjoy maintaining for the long term, and the kind of multi-cache that you'd be proud to be known by. Then ignore the naysayers who don't like that kind of cache.

[+t4e]

I am not a big fan of multis but if the multi is a good one where the stages lead me to interesting places or sights, or has a bit of a challenge to find or figure out the next stage, etc I will do it.

 

 

seeing that we're happy you enjoyed The Grand K-W Schnitzeljagd

 

btw: the picture of the "schnitzel monster" is my own creation right in my plate lol

Edited October 1, 2010 by t4e

[+The Blorenges]

The info we really want to know before starting is

 

(a.) How long it will take to complete (roughly)? - Either give estimated time or length of the walk.

 

(b.) Will it bring us back towards the starting point, or are we going to be some miles distant?

 

I particularly like multis around small towns, ones that show you points of interest you might not otherwise see, or relate something about the history and development of the town.

 

MrsB

Edited October 1, 2010 by The Blorenges

[+SwineFlew]

If you got a poor habit of keeping your own traditional cache well maintenance, dont create any multis at all. Multis are high maintenance and alot of work to keep them running order.

[GPS-Hermit]

The one I liked better than any other was one that had a stage for every character of Winnie the Pooh! There was a purpose for each stage. It was fun finding the whole gang, and truely great for kids.

 

Another one totally introduced me to all the significant parts of an area so I know the good parts and can come back and do them all.

 

A historical spot, a cabin, an overlook, a battlefield, I historical marker, another trail head to hike, a bike trail, restored train station, an old tree, a funny growing tree, a statue, a birthplace, a great plant, a bigfoot den, a hand built rock wall, anything but something not a nothing spot. Take me somewhere neat! Don't bore me 10 feet from the car with nothing there.

 

Make sure the signals are not terrible!

No Poison Ivy - thank you please!

No briars! - thank you again and again!

Muggle free environment while retrieving caches.

Have a reason for each spot - something there! Different hides!

Say what you are looking for!

I prefer to complete a multi in 3 hours easy.

I prefer to do it all on foot continuosly.

Last stage a real cache container with nice log book!

I think it would be nice for the 1st stage to have all the co-ordinates for all the stages in case one stage is missing.

Yes, cheating could occur but so what a greater day would be had from those who don't cheat.

Make it Fun Fun Fun - put lots of thought into it and enjoy making the tour a great one!

Edited October 1, 2010 by GPS-Hermit

[+Harry Dolphin]

Does it become okay if there is fair warning?

 

I have a complicated multi with a lot of information to gather, and so the equation does have a number of variables. But the equation is presented on the cache page ahead of time, and seekers are warned to bring a calculator in the short description on the cache page...

I think that's okay. I wouldn't want to be surprised in the middle of a cache, especially if a calculator was needed.

 

Um... Both my GPS and my Palm Pilot have built in calculators. Did have to sit a few minutes on addisonbr's multi when I had a bad number...

 

Don'ts for multis: Please don't spray paint the next set of coords on a tree, or mark them with magic marker on the bridge.

[+flaffle]

I really enjoy multis and now own three of them. I fully agree with the tips above and here's a few I've learned through both seeking and hiding:

 

Two to four stages seem to be the sweet spot for the average multi. More stages than that, and only the hardcore will come out so you better make it a very satisfying cache. A good cache, while it won't bring you a high number of logs, will bring you quality logs.

 

A unified theme is good. Identical hides get boring fast.

 

For the love of all common sense, use durable containers or means of marking each stage. Nothing is more annoying than being part way through a multi and finding that your next set of coords is illegible. And while multis are always going to require more maintenance, don't make it harder on yourself by putting out poor quality markers and, in the process, ticking off prospective finders. Check on it regularly with or without DNFs.

 

One thing I've learned the very hard way, is while you should always double check your coords, check them four times on a multi. You can't just make a quick adjustment on your computer. If your coords are bad on a middle stage you are remaking something.

 

I'm on the fence for letting people know what kind of container/marker they are looking for. Two of the ones I have that aren't exactly designed to be easy, I am mute on it. Figuring out what you're looking for is part of the challenge and I have appreciated it on many of the ones I've done.

 

I do always let people know the number of stages they are looking for. I don't give exact mileage since that can vary but if it's going to take more than 1 hr, I definitely use that attribute. All of mine are relatively high terrain so I expect people to expect a decent walk/adventure.

[+power69]

Hey All,

 

I was asked to do a Geocaching tutorial on hiding a multi-geocache and wondered if you would mind giving me some suggestions on the proper dos and don'ts, likes and dislikes.

 

What are too many stages, are there too few?

Do you prefer physical objects to find or solving tough mathematical problems?

 

What makes or breaks a multi-geocache for you?

 

Would appreciate all the feedback I can get so I can incorporate it into the GeoSnippits.

the number of stages MUST be on the page.

not more than 5[only takes one dnf to deny you the smiley]