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FTF Hourders


zapfrog
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i got my second FTF yesterday. Gotta say i liked getting it! Yes, i cache for the scenery and hikes and hunt. But i like a little friendly competition. In my town there's a few FTF hounds and it's fun to see who gets em first!

But according to some opinion, your enjoyment of that experience yesterday would have been just as great if all the local FTF 'hounds' had stayed at home in order to let you get to that one first (assuming it was your turn).

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i got my second FTF yesterday. Gotta say i liked getting it! Yes, i cache for the scenery and hikes and hunt. But i like a little friendly competition. In my town there's a few FTF hounds and it's fun to see who gets em first!

But according to some opinion, your enjoyment of that experience yesterday would have been just as great if all the local FTF 'hounds' had stayed at home in order to let you get to that one first (assuming it was your turn).

 

unbeknownst to seeker, they did all stay home just for that very reason.

 

:laughing:

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Is hogging too many gold medals in the Olympics rude? I'm sorry Team USA, you've got too many gold medals. We're going to let Team China win some for a while so it's more fair. How about hogging too much money because your business is more successful than others?

 

 

I blame soccer.

 

The youth soccer leagues around here don't keep score. Everybody gets a turn, and at the end of the game, both teams are "winners." Bleh.

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I blame soccer.

 

The youth soccer leagues around here don't keep score. Everybody gets a turn, and at the end of the game, both teams are "winners." Bleh.

 

LOL... when my son was much younger, and the activity he was involved with did the "everyone's a winner" bit - the non-competitive son said.... "but i didn't win. what's the point of this medal if everyone gets one."

 

he was 6 and he understood.

 

:laughing:

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Is hogging too many gold medals in the Olympics rude? I'm sorry Team USA, you've got too many gold medals. We're going to let Team China win some for a while so it's more fair. How about hogging too much money because your business is more successful than others?

 

 

I blame soccer.

 

The youth soccer leagues around here don't keep score. Everybody gets a turn, and at the end of the game, both teams are "winners." Bleh.

 

"cause that'll teach them how to handle life in the real world. :laughing:

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We are truly blessed here in Minnesota. We rarely have to wait hours for Surfer Joe to publish a cache. When he does, there is a FTF party, if the cache in anywhere in the metro area. Usually it is the same people who show up, either because they have flexible schedules, or because they get done about the time he starts publishing the new caches.

While I almost never am FTF, I have enjoyed one or two of the parties. The very best kind include the CO standing nearby, heckling those hunting in vain!

The only instance I have seen of someone waiting to allow another to be FTF, is a cache dedicated to a particular cacher. We make those parties too.

Everyone plays this game their own way. I don't have to like how you do it, you don't have to like how I do it. Everyone has different strengths and abilities. I am not going to be mad that someone climbed a tree that I can't climb to find a cache, why would I be mad that they got up at 3am to find a cache?

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What are people's opinion on this?

 

The people that wake up at ungodly hours just to clean house on FTF's, whole parks, strings, etc. It would be cool if it was one or two and left some for others. After all aren't we here to make it fun, help each other out, enjoy each others company?

My other thought is what about the families that want to bring their kids out for FTF's? I don't think the kid is going to wake up at 3am, so the people that plow through FTF's leave nothing for these families.

 

Obviously the FTFs are as important to you as they are to these 'hourders' that you criticize, they are just willing to go the extra mile (or 5) to get them.

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Let's face it, if you get FTF you have a better chance of finding the cache the way the hiders intended to leave it- Before those others geocachers decided to hide the cache so that it will be easier to find or before the container has been broken or before the swag has degraded to broken sea shells, dirty toys, laminated cards and junk or before all the cool theme swag disappears and is replaced with broken sea shells, dirty toys, laminated cards....

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Why do I keep reading the title as "FTF Hors d'oeuvres"? That's what the bear around here like! FTF hors d'oeuvres!

Ya want an FTF, you have to be prepared to go for it! And stop with the entitle ent that others should lave them for you. Ya want it, ya gotta fight for it!

Myself, I got two this year! Yes. They were fun! One ws 1.9 from home. The other was a mile-and-a-half hime. Guess te local FTFers felt sorry for me.

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So for example, if a cache is published now and I go out and get FTF, when am I next allowed to go and try for one without people thinking bad of me? 10 caches down the road? 20?

How does one know when everyone who wants a turn has had their turn?

My opinion? Think "buffet line." No rules necessary for polite company.

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What are people's opinion on this?

 

The people that wake up at ungodly hours just to clean house on FTF's, whole parks, strings, etc. It would be cool if it was one or two and left some for others. After all aren't we here to make it fun, help each other out, enjoy each others company?

My other thought is what about the families that want to bring their kids out for FTF's? I don't think the kid is going to wake up at 3am, so the people that plow through FTF's leave nothing for these families.

 

What is the value of a "First to Find" if the cache is only left unfound because someone took pity on you? Lame.

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My opinion? Think "buffet line." No rules necessary for polite company.

I'm thinking buffet line (do they have any of those mini vol-au-vents, I love those) and I'm seeing people standing in a queue.

I can see who is interested in getting food.

I can see where my place in the queue is.

I will be able to see when everyone else has had their food and the queue has died down so I can go and get seconds.

 

Your comparison falls down on the use of the word 'company'. Which suggests a gathering of people.

But none of us really know each other, and in some cases we don't know of each other. There is no queue, no line, no visible statement or indication of who one is supposed to be being polite towards.

 

That's why I'm struggling to understand how on earth I am supposed to know whether I am being rude or impolite to someone who without my knowledge is sitting in their house wanting to go out and get a FTF.

 

The only way I can see to overcome that uncertainty and be sure I'm not upsetting anyone is for me to stop going out for FTF except maybe a couple of times a year (assuming I get a turn). And that means I won't be getting my share of Vol-au-vents. And I like vol-au-vents :laughing:

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If they really wanted to earn an FTF they wouldn't be sitting in their house.

Well exactly. But according to some opinion, that's what they are doing (or perhaps they are at work, or school or something), waiting for a convenient time for them to go out and be the first to find the brand new shiny cache.

But in the meantime, people like me are being completely unfair (apparently) by going out and finding it at a time that's not convenient to them.

 

I'm still trying to get to the bottom of how I and others can continue to play the FTF game while at the same time accommodating the needs, desires and rights of those who would like to find a shiny new cache but for whatever reason are not able to join in the game the way it is being played by everyone else.

 

Apparently it is something to do with seeing a queue and then using your inbuilt 'polite' function (which I do have, honest) to stop you barging to the front every time.

Unfortunately I don't know if there is a queue, who is in it if there is one, or how long they need to get up from their table and get to the front of the queue. And nor do any of the other dozen or so people who play the game around here.

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And if I go out to do a series of 10 new caches on a circular walk round a wood and I am first to find #1 then I'm not going to stop at #3 and go home to return to finish another day in order to let someone else be ftf on the others in the series.

I'm possibly being dim here (it has been known), but I don't see the logic in that at all, yet that seems to be what some are suggesting should happen.

 

 

I have done almost exactly what you are describing. It wasn't a circular walk but for an event last year there were nine new caches placed in my area (I placed one of them). I took the day off from work for a rare day of local geocaching. I was out around 8:00AM and was FTF on the first three finds. Then I felt guilty about getting FTF on all of the new caches so I took a brunch break for an hour or so then went back out. I didn't get any other FTFs that day, but found three more then logged my 909th find at the 09/09/09 event later that day.

 

The fact that you consider stopping caching for the day when there are FTF opportunities out there unfathomable, while I don't really care if someone else finds a cache before I do tells me that we don't play the game the same way. Someone with family and work obligations that significantly limit the amount of free time one has available to go out and look for a cache is play the game different than someone that is retired, a single man or woman in their teens or early 20's, or someone that is physically disabled. Someone that lives in an area with 200 caches within 10 miles is likely going to play the game different then someone that lives in an area with 2000 within the same radius. Someone that lives in a area with less than 10 new caches placed within 20 miles in 6 months is likely going to play the game different than someone that lives in an area with 200 new caches within 20 miles in a single month.

 

Yet, you want us to consider that when it comes to a certain aspect of the game that we all play it the same way, and any other way of playing the game is illogical.

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Your comparison falls down on the use of the word 'company'. Which suggests a gathering of people.

But none of us really know each other, and in some cases we don't know of each other. There is no queue, no line, no visible statement or indication of who one is supposed to be being polite towards.

I'm not sure that the concept of politeness should necessarily fall apart as anonymity increases. I think that in a community of cachers the idea of being kind to (relative) strangers still has merit. I'm often kind towards people I don't know or know of, for example when I trade up in a cache, not having any idea who might be visiting the cache behind me. I just figure *someone* is, so it's a nice gesture.

 

I might not be able to precisely define it quantitatively, in much the same way that it's hard to precisely define how often you should invite others into your home for dinner, if they are often hosting you. I'd never be able to point to a formula. It strikes me as more of a Potter Stewart thing.

 

Keep in mind that I'm *not* in the camp that thinks that FTF hounds are rude or bad for the game. I just don't think that the anonymity of the game is a justification that I'd be comfortable using to explain my view.

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I have done almost exactly what you are describing. It wasn't a circular walk but for an event last year there were nine new caches placed in my area (I placed one of them). I took the day off from work for a rare day of local geocaching. I was out around 8:00AM and was FTF on the first three finds. Then I felt guilty about getting FTF on all of the new caches so I took a brunch break for an hour or so then went back out. I didn't get any other FTFs that day, but found three more then logged my 909th find at the 09/09/09 event later that day.

Nicely worked :laughing:

I think in the case of special caches put out for an event I too would probably not go and grab them all.

The fact that you consider stopping caching for the day when there are FTF opportunities out there unfathomable, while I don't really care if someone else finds a cache before I do tells me that we don't play the game the same way.

No, what I said was I would not break off half way round a circular walk and go home just so someone else can get FTF on the remaining caches.

Two weeks ago there were a few puzzle caches published and on the same day a few caches up on the coast. We decided to try for the puzzle ones but did not go for the coastal ones. We got one of the 4 puzzle caches as FTF.

I think you have the impression that I am racing around trying to hoover up anything that gets published, and that is wrong. When we did the series of 10 on the woodland walk there was a series of 11 in the adjoining wood published the same evening. But we didn't go for them, nor were we tempted.

Someone with family and work obligations that significantly limit the amount of free time one has available to go out and look for a cache is play the game different than someone that is retired, a single man or woman in their teens or early 20's, or someone that is physically disabled. Someone that lives in an area with 200 caches within 10 miles is likely going to play the game different then someone that lives in an area with 2000 within the same radius. Someone that lives in a area with less than 10 new caches placed within 20 miles in 6 months is likely going to play the game different than someone that lives in an area with 200 new caches within 20 miles in a single month.

I would say we fit into the category of people with limited time for caching. We run our own business and it is not one where we can as a matter of course drop everything and rush out on a FTF hunt. We work 6 days a week and between 8.30am and 6pm we are tied to the business. After 6pm and Sundays are the only times we really stand a chance of getting out for a FTF, and we do have retired people and folk who don't work inthe afternoon in our area. That's what makes getting a FTF a little bit special. But there's no way we would even get close to getting them all in our area.

 

Yet, you want us to consider that when it comes to a certain aspect of the game that we all play it the same way, and any other way of playing the game is illogical.

You are right in a way. A FTF race is a FTF race, and what I am trying to say is that if it is not played as a FTF race but instead everyone is given a turn, then it is no longer a FTF race and therefore FTF becomes meaningless, which I know is how some people would prefer to see it.

 

But while there are people who think being first to find a cache is something different and 'special' (as the OP clearly does) then there will be people who go out of their way a bit to get there first.

 

What I find illogical is the idea that you can turn being FTF into something that everyone can take turns at, irrespective of how much effort they wish to put into it.

The idea that someone who wants to be the first to find on a cache that's published on a Monday but can't get out to it until Sunday should have the opportunity to do so by way of everyone else waiting for them just doesn't make sense.

 

(Edited for typo)

Edited by Lovejoy and Tinker
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I don’t have any notification but still have a few hundred FTFs. I also generally leave the FTF prize for others because that isn’t why I go out (I did take a DunkinDonuts gift card recently).

 

What is disturbing are those inconsiderate cachers who have found more caches than I have. They didn't wait but joined and started caching years before I did, claiming they do this for ‘enjoyment’. Why couldn’t they have consideration for the kids, some not born when they started caching, who will never be able to catch up with their number of finds and now can only find wet logbooks and used McDonald toys in the caches they have plundered. Although 'these people' that started years earlier and pile up the big numbers don't bother me, they leave no enjoyment for these disappointed caching families. :laughing:

Edited by rjb43nh
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Keep in mind that I'm *not* in the camp that thinks that FTF hounds are rude or bad for the game. I just don't think that the anonymity of the game is a justification that I'd be comfortable using to explain my view.

Understood. And it is good to hear other people's view of the FTF aspect of the game. I now understand that there are people out there who would like to see new caches being something that people don't dash out for as soon as they are published but left for everyone to have a go at finding without rushing out.

(I disagree with that but I can see why some might prefer it that way).

 

I don't think I am explaining myself very well and am probably coming across as someone who doesn't give a fig for anyone else and will ride roughshod over everyone in my quest for a cache.

I'm not like that - honest - and my comment about the kid in the gorse bush earlier really was a joke :laughing:

 

I'll not try and explain my viewpoint further as I'll probably just make things worse for myself and I have written too many words on the subject as it is. No doubt many people already have a dim view of me for my views on this subject. But oddly I don't see myself as a "FTF Hound" as there are so many new caches published that we wouldn't ever stand a chance of getting to first.

 

But to sum up my view:

 

A FTF opportunity is open to everyone who is prepared to make an effort to get there. Limiting factors such as work commitments, children, number of local caches published etc will only limit the number of FTF's one can get. But I honestly believe everyone who really wants to find a virgin cache has the opportunity to do so.

 

Second, any attempt to even up the playing field and share the FTFs amongst everyone, no matter what effort they are prepared to put into getting them, would mean that there is no longer a point to being FTF.

 

Finally, FTF's are fun. They are a great way to meet fellow cachers and add an extra element to what is already a great game.

 

There, I've dug a big enough hole now, i'll stop digging :laughing:

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This whole conversation is getting rediculous. Quite blaiming others because you don't seem to want to "up" your game.

 

This kind of reminds me of when I was trying to buy a Nintendo Wii for my kids for Chirstmas. I showed up at the store about 1h before opening, and they were already sold out. I quickly realised I had to up my game. No point in whining or telling people they were rude for not waiting for me. Next week when the shipment came in, I was there 4h before they opended. I was the second in line, and got my Wii. Lots of others who came later didn't. Some wanted to know when we had arrived so they had an idea of what they should try next week; we politly told them. Some of them whined, and we (the ones who were there early enough) laughed at them. Why on earth would I feel sorry for them when they were unwilling to put in the effort required.

 

You people who are trying to get FTFer to be polite by letting you, or people with familys (etc.) get some FTF sound like spoiled children. I have a day job, a famly with 3 kids, I help my mugglewife with her buisness on evenings and weekends, and somehow I still have some FTF. Because I want some (not all of them), I ocasionaly do whatever it takes to bag one. If you want some, you can too, you just have to up your game!

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Finally, FTF's are fun. They are a great way to meet fellow cachers and add an extra element to what is already a great game.

The only time I have met other cachers at a FTF hunt was when we were all pwned by an early bird who found it hours earlyer, but didn't log online. 3 of us took an early lunch and ran into eachother near GZ just to find the log had been signed hours earlyer.

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Wow, I never knew Geocaching could be so melodramatic...

 

Well, here's my opinion on "FTF hoarders" in case anyone cares. A FTF is great fun for some--I could care less. As a non-premium member (I'm a graduate student and therefore don't cache often enough for the money to be worth it to me), I have only attempted 2 FTF's. The first one I missed by 15 minutes. The second one, I met another cacher at GZ. He found the cache before me, and therefore got the FTF. Do I care? Nope. Did I still have fun? Yup. Will I search for another FTF? Maybe--don't know.

 

Just have a good time, that's what caching is all about. If for you that means getting FTFs, prepare to put the necessary work into it. :laughing:

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As a point of interest, while some were sitting at their keyboards, whining about not being able to get FTFs, I just went out and got 2 this morning, one was a simple puzzle cache.

 

That's the way you do it. :laughing:

 

That's just not fair and very rude to those of us who did not want to leave our computers. :laughing:

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This whole conversation is getting rediculous. Quite blaiming others because you don't seem to want to "up" your game.

 

This kind of reminds me of when I was trying to buy a Nintendo Wii for my kids for Chirstmas. I showed up at the store about 1h before opening, and they were already sold out. I quickly realised I had to up my game. No point in whining or telling people they were rude for not waiting for me. Next week when the shipment came in, I was there 4h before they opended. I was the second in line, and got my Wii. Lots of others who came later didn't. Some wanted to know when we had arrived so they had an idea of what they should try next week; we politly told them. Some of them whined, and we (the ones who were there early enough) laughed at them. Why on earth would I feel sorry for them when they were unwilling to put in the effort required.

 

You people who are trying to get FTFer to be polite by letting you, or people with familys (etc.) get some FTF sound like spoiled children. I have a day job, a famly with 3 kids, I help my mugglewife with her buisness on evenings and weekends, and somehow I still have some FTF. Because I want some (not all of them), I ocasionaly do whatever it takes to bag one. If you want some, you can too, you just have to up your game!

 

You just described me and my position to the T.

 

You can play the game the way you want but at the end of the day, NO WHININIG is allowed. :laughing:

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Keep in mind that I'm *not* in the camp that thinks that FTF hounds are rude or bad for the game. I just don't think that the anonymity of the game is a justification that I'd be comfortable using to explain my view.

Understood. And it is good to hear other people's view of the FTF aspect of the game. I now understand that there are people out there who would like to see new caches being something that people don't dash out for as soon as they are published but left for everyone to have a go at finding without rushing out.

(I disagree with that but I can see why some might prefer it that way).

 

I don't think I am explaining myself very well and am probably coming across as someone who doesn't give a fig for anyone else and will ride roughshod over everyone in my quest for a cache.

I'm not like that - honest - and my comment about the kid in the gorse bush earlier really was a joke :laughing:

 

I'll not try and explain my viewpoint further as I'll probably just make things worse for myself and I have written too many words on the subject as it is. No doubt many people already have a dim view of me for my views on this subject. But oddly I don't see myself as a "FTF Hound" as there are so many new caches published that we wouldn't ever stand a chance of getting to first.

 

But to sum up my view:

 

A FTF opportunity is open to everyone who is prepared to make an effort to get there. Limiting factors such as work commitments, children, number of local caches published etc will only limit the number of FTF's one can get. But I honestly believe everyone who really wants to find a virgin cache has the opportunity to do so.

 

Second, any attempt to even up the playing field and share the FTFs amongst everyone, no matter what effort they are prepared to put into getting them, would mean that there is no longer a point to being FTF.

 

Finally, FTF's are fun. They are a great way to meet fellow cachers and add an extra element to what is already a great game.

 

There, I've dug a big enough hole now, i'll stop digging :laughing:

 

First of all, I wanted to make it clear that I wasn't pointing any fingers directly at you. I basically have two points.

 

First, due to the diversity of the environments in which we play this game, and the diversity of those that playing it, I just can't get behind a suggestion that there is one true way to play a specific aspect, and that's what many that have participated in the thread have suggested.

 

Secondly, and this also is related to the diversity of those that play it, there are some that take the FTF game very seriously, and some that don't care at all if they're the first to sign a log sheet. It's not about taking turns, or keeping ones place in a queue. It's not about trying to establish some sense of equity when it comes to finding geocaches. As I see it, if how I play the game somehow improves the enjoyment of the game for someone else, and doesn't negatively impact my enjoyment of the game I'm willing to refrain from taking advantage of a FTF opportunity. It's not always about me.

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Wow! It's amazing that one can be gone for a very long time and come back to the same conversations. I suppose it creates some sort of stability in the geo-world.

 

We got our first FTF about a month ago, though we weren't going after it as a FTF. It was just a great puzzle by one of the great puzzle cache masters in our area. For some reason it just clicked with me and it was a joy to solve. We left late the next morning. We eventually found the cache and were happy to see that we were late enough to have the woods to ourselves without meeting up with any FTFers. We'd worried about that. We don't want to meet others in the woods. My beloved wants serenity. I want to pretend that we are lone explorers in the wilderness.

 

One of the best parts of caching for us is seeing who else found it and what they said in the logbook (if anything). We both look forward to that. My beloved (who was sitting in the very awkward and precarious position required by the terrain) said, "There are no signatures."

 

I said, "There have to be. We're way too late for the FTFers. Are you sure you have the right notebook?"

 

He checked again. "There's only one."

 

"Toss it to me and I'll check. Maybe someone is playing tricks and hiding their signature." (I've read the forum so I know this sort of thing happens, though we have never actually seen anyone do it.) I went through every page while my beloved was hanging on trying not to fall to the ground accidentally. No signatures. "It looks like we have our first FTF," I said. I thought he looked a bit disappointed or perhaps annoyed that I made him hang on while I reviewed every page of the notebook without finding anything.

 

Later that day we saw that others had logged it, some quite disappointed that they hadn't gotten the FTF and I felt bad that I'd deprived the people who care about FTFs of this one since the FTF didn't matter much to us and if we'd just waited another few hours someone who cared about FTFs would have gotten it. But I can't imagine holding off on searching for a cache on that basis. Everyone plays their own game in this hobby and sometimes our games collide in odd ways. There's nothing to be done about it.

 

Carolyn

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Great topic. This comes up often, but it always amuses me, especially how people say things ARE or ARE NOT part of the game.

 

It's always ridiculous and it always has bias. It is with a respectful grain of salt that I feel anyone speaks for any community larger than their computer room. If you don't value FTFs, I can still guarantee I can tell you what you DO value, just by looking at your profile and activities. EVERYBODY tracks something and it's ALL part of the game. That's what I like...it's self directed. I choose what matters, and your diatribes about FTFs won't change that. I cannot look at a cacher's profile with more than 100 finds without knowing EXACTLY what they like about this game, because they measure it...and I hate to break the news but it's ALL ARBITRARY... even more arbitrary than ftfs.

 

You can spend two days in the wilderness and get a 5/5, or you can solve a puzzle and climb a tree and get the same result, yet both those cachers who get that 5/5 pat themselves and are patted on the back for the achievement...and both SHOULD be proud. Because both set a personal goal and made it, but noone can tell me these are the same thing. Tracking the finding of either of these caches is respected as PART of the game, yet this is so ARBITRARY it's unbelievable. But getting there first is NOT part of the game? Yeah right. Why are there five logs within three hours of any regular cache being published...just happen to be in the area? Closet FTFers all over the place!

 

You DARE be proud of your FTFs and there is hell to pay. Why is the goal of being there first less relevant than filling the 81 grid?

 

Don't get me wrong...my appetite for FTF LPCs has diminished (off of a cliff), but give me a new 4/4 mystery and I will work my butt off to go get it....and get it FIRST. And when someone finds my mystery cache first...I volunteer to go get it with them and CELEBRATE their achievement.

 

What I do know, is every time I release a cache I anxiously wait for the FTF log. It confirms my coordinates, the rating and how well it may or may not be received.

 

To all you FTFers, and you know who you are... keep doing what you are doing. Stay alert, drive safe and get there first! And to those who have spoken up and defended going for the FTF...thank you.

Edited by KDotBlueDot
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i like finding the ones that no one has found in a while.

 

i like to see a screen full of DNFs (and the occasional cutesy note from the CO saying "it's still there...."). that actually makes me feel more accomplished than being the first one out the door after the email.

 

That is my absolute FAVORITE kind of find, especially if one or more of the DNFers are friends! The opportunities for mocking are endless.

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Here are a couple of suggestions if you don't want to shell out the $30 for the membership and can't get notifications...

 

You might be able to get FTF on some more difficult puzzle caches, or caches that are in remote areas because they require more effort to find, and don't get jumped on as quickly, so look around for the newest caches in your area, and look for those sorts.

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It wasn't a matter of taking anything away from "the game" but for the reasons I mentioned.

@t4e And yes there are people that will get up at ungodly hours just to clean house even it means getting only two hours of sleep and then rolling into work. There is someone in our area that does this on a regular basis.

 

And yes this cacher cleans out entire areas before anyone gets to them. Don't even get me started on fairness, there is a reason sports have salary caps :unsure:

 

Hey Zapfrog I guess I'm one of those Clean house FTF Hounds :unsure: , the FTF hunt is my game, but if "You can't take the heat stay outta the fire" If the FTF thing bothers you that much then I would say don't play that part of the game, leave it to us hoarders. :unsure:

 

Scubasonic

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We had a cache published close by at the begining of the summer. It was an ammo can, with a nice walk in the woods along a creek. I waited, though I was in the area, or could be very easily, letting the FTF hounds go for it. After 3 days with no finders I fianlly said "Come on kids..looks like we ned to go find it or something." LOL I'm not a FTF anything..but after that long, if no one else is going, we'll hed out.

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To me, the main advantage of an FTF is that you get to find the cache EXACTLY the way the owner intended it to be found. :unsure:

After a couple of finds, things get moved/changed.

I have been to many hides and wondered if the owner really left it that way. :unsure:

I have found a couple of FTFs and wondered the same thing, too. :unsure:

 

If there's a $100 bill in the cache, then you have a REAL FTF race! :unsure:

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It wasn't a matter of taking anything away from "the game" but for the reasons I mentioned.

@t4e And yes there are people that will get up at ungodly hours just to clean house even it means getting only two hours of sleep and then rolling into work. There is someone in our area that does this on a regular basis.

 

And yes this cacher cleans out entire areas before anyone gets to them. Don't even get me started on fairness, there is a reason sports have salary caps :unsure:

 

Hey Zapfrog I guess I'm one of those Clean house FTF Hounds :unsure: , the FTF hunt is my game, but if "You can't take the heat stay outta the fire" If the FTF thing bothers you that much then I would say don't play that part of the game, leave it to us hoarders. :unsure:

 

Scubasonic

 

Say, I was wondering, what's the difference between a FTF Hoarder and a FTF Hoarder Wannabe anyway? Besides the obvious I mean.

Edited by bflentje
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It wasn't a matter of taking anything away from "the game" but for the reasons I mentioned.

@t4e And yes there are people that will get up at ungodly hours just to clean house even it means getting only two hours of sleep and then rolling into work. There is someone in our area that does this on a regular basis.

 

And yes this cacher cleans out entire areas before anyone gets to them. Don't even get me started on fairness, there is a reason sports have salary caps :unsure:

 

Hey Zapfrog I guess I'm one of those Clean house FTF Hounds :unsure: , the FTF hunt is my game, but if "You can't take the heat stay outta the fire" If the FTF thing bothers you that much then I would say don't play that part of the game, leave it to us hoarders. :unsure:

 

Scubasonic

 

Say, I was wondering, what's the difference between a FTF Hoarder and a FTF Hoarder Wannabe anyway? Besides the obvious I mean.

 

One has Motavation, Drive, and determination and the wannabe does not........... :unsure:

 

I had a guy in our area whining about the very same thing that this OP is talking about, I asked him if he would like me to go get the FTFs and bring them to his house so he doesn't have to get off the coach, and stop watching his TV for a minute so he could sign the FTF spot, then I would take it back to GZ for him but I never heard back from him..........guess there was a Marathon TV show on.

 

Scubasonic

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It wasn't a matter of taking anything away from "the game" but for the reasons I mentioned.

@t4e And yes there are people that will get up at ungodly hours just to clean house even it means getting only two hours of sleep and then rolling into work. There is someone in our area that does this on a regular basis.

 

And yes this cacher cleans out entire areas before anyone gets to them. Don't even get me started on fairness, there is a reason sports have salary caps :unsure:

 

Hey Zapfrog I guess I'm one of those Clean house FTF Hounds :unsure: , the FTF hunt is my game, but if "You can't take the heat stay outta the fire" If the FTF thing bothers you that much then I would say don't play that part of the game, leave it to us hoarders. :unsure:

 

Scubasonic

 

Say, I was wondering, what's the difference between a FTF Hoarder and a FTF Hoarder Wannabe anyway? Besides the obvious I mean.

 

One has Motavation, Drive, and determination and the wannabe does not........... :unsure:

 

I had a guy in our area whining about the very same thing that this OP is talking about, I asked him if he would like me to go get the FTFs and bring them to his house so he doesn't have to get off the coach, and stop watching his TV for a minute so he could sign the FTF spot, then I would take it back to GZ for him but I never heard back from him..........guess there was a Marathon TV show on.

 

Scubasonic

 

Do have to try to be insulting or is it something that just comes naturally?

 

Frankly, I find responses like "you have to up your game" and "if you can't take the heat stay out of the fire" to be insulting, as if those that don't have as many FTFs as some have some sort of deficiency when it comes to being the first to sign a logbook. Just the use of the term "wannabe" is insulting as it implies that someone is incapable, either physically or mentally capable, of achieving a goal.

 

I can come up with a variety explanations when someone might not get a lot (or any) FTFs, none of which have anything related ones ability to find geocaches.

 

First, Assume GeoCacherA lives in an area that averages 30 new geocaches a day, and has been geocaching for 7 years. GeoCacherB lives in an area with an average of 2-3 (or less) new caches a day and has only been geocaching a couple of years. GeoCacherB FTFs numbers would pale in comparison to GeoCacherA's number simply due to the availability of caches and the time each has spent playing the game.

 

Secondly, it boils down to a matter of priorities. Just how important is it to be the first to sign the log? When I weigh the importance of being FTF, or even searching for a cache that's already been found, my family obligations, and my job will take priority every time. In fact, it's because my motivation is directed to being successful at my job, that I've had the opportunity to go geocaching in 10 different countries, and by the end of the month, have found caches on four continents.

 

I'm not going to tell my wife, "sorry but you have to mow the lawn/cook dinner/help our son with his homework, a new cache has been published...must get FTF." I'm not going to tell my son, "sorry I can't teach you to ride a bicycle...I have a FTF to get." Believe or not, some people have other hobbies. I've been flyfishing and kayaking long before I ever heard of geocaching and, especially considering how much I've got invested in those hobbies, I'm not going to give them up in lieu of being able to get a FTF.

 

Neither of those reasons have anything to do with ones ability to "take the heat" or because ones "game" isn't up to another's lofty standards.

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One has Motavation, Drive, and determination and the wannabe does not........... :unsure:

 

I had a guy in our area whining about the very same thing that this OP is talking about, I asked him if he would like me to go get the FTFs and bring them to his house so he doesn't have to get off the coach, and stop watching his TV for a minute so he could sign the FTF spot, then I would take it back to GZ for him but I never heard back from him..........guess there was a Marathon TV show on.

 

Scubasonic

 

Stop being an ellipses hourder. If you'll just use three "." at a time there will be plenty for the rest of us.

 

:unsure:

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