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if you cant help the goal, dont take it. possible recourse?


ionekoa
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recently i came across a post about a travelbug in my area that really got my attention. it was a hawaiian state fish, trying to make its way back to Hawaii, which is west. i went to the cache it was supposed to be in and low and behold, it had been gone for over a week without ever being logged. and did the nice folks that took it bother to place it close by, or at least take it further on its westward journey??? no, they took it over 700 miles off course back east. this REALLY BURNS MY HIDE for two reasons.

 

A. they didnt even log that they had taken it. the whole reason i went to that cache was to get the bug and move it west (as hawaii holds a special place in my heart do to a loved one being from there) only to find someone had decided to sneak it out. and yes, sneak is the word when you swipe it and dont log it for over a week. i know some people will say "but what if they couldnt get to a computer" to that i say, only if they were dragged directly from the cache to the wilderness for over a week, in this area that is not a problem, if you dont have a private comp, there are public ones ALL OVER THE PLACE.

 

B. i have been thinking about placing my own bug with a specific goal, to go to albequerque New Mexico, before i go there to get my Black Belt. this would be a very time sensitive goal. i would be VERY upset if someone were to take it back home with them say to Canada, or New York, or SOUTH CAROLINA.

 

my question is about possible recourse. would there be a way maybe to identify, (by reporting them to the admins, or calculating by the logs how long they have had the bug) people who hamper the bug experience, and block them from being able to see caches with bugs in them?

 

i understand that some bugs have the goal merely to log as many miles as possible in any direction, but there must be someway to help those of us who have specific goals to avoid those people who either do not care to respect our goals (which comes down to a lack of respect for the person who placed the bug) or lack the intelligence to understand the difference in direction and distance between their goals and the goals of the bug owner. ultimately the bug does NOT belong to everyone as another post said, it belongs to the person that purchased it and first placed it, and gave it its goal. these goals and the people who made them should be respected.

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Reading the other posts on this website I have seen many people state that they would rather have travel bugs moving short distances often than sitting in a cache waiting for someone that is going in a paticular direction to take it.

 

It seems that T.B. tend to just roam around and then is they happen to be close to their goal then people start looking into getting them there.

 

---I will stand out, I am a raven in the snow.

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It's only a game.

 

That being said, I think it's kinda neat to have serendipity take a hand in some bugs' travels. 700 miles is a bit far, but think of it this way (I've said this before...):

 

Why do you have bugs? Just to make it to the goal?

 

Scenario A:

You release a bug to go to Niagra Falls. Your neighbor down the street hears about it and grabs the bug from the cache. He holds on to the bug because on his honeymoon in 3 months he's going to Niagra Falls. When he gets there he places it and the bug has reached its goal.

 

Scenario B:

You release a bug to go to Niagra Falls. Someone on vacation grabs it from a cache, but didn't get access to a computer until he was home because he had to make a flight. Turns out the bug was going to Niagra, but he took it to California - so he immediately releases the bug trying to get it back. Little by little with short hops, the bug makes it to Niagra Falls in 18 months.

 

Which bug had more fun? Which bug was more fun to watch?

 

Is it the goal or the journey?

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

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in your scenario does that flight last over a week?? and yes 700 miles is far, how about this scenario, you know the goal of the bug is to travel about 1600 miles west so instead of taking it 700 miles east, you do another cache that day that is 5 to 15 miles west, it makes the smaller trip, it stays on course, you log it. as to nurses scenario's if the guy holds it for three months then he falls into the catagory of people that im complaining about. im not saying that if your from out of town dont take the bug, or not to take the bug on long trips. my BIG complaint, and i was clear about it was that it was gone for over a week before i found the cache without the bug in it. and days later (so probably 2 weeks total) until it was logged. i am aware it is a game so lets be courtious to the other people playing by logging bugs we take. so that those of us (such as myself) who enjoy seeing the different travel bugs and helping them on their journeys arent going out of their way to find... nothing.. the 700 mi, complaint applies to 2 things a. the lesser, that i will not now get to see this bug (which i really did want to do) and b. as i said i have been considering placing a bug with a time sensitive goal, so yes a big trip out of the way and smaller trips back would be unacceptable. i never said or implied (as these 2 posters seem to think i did) that you should grab the bug and try to achieve the goal in one fail swoop, i merely said dont hinder or frustrate the goal.

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You're assuming the finder knows the goal of the bug. I grabbed a bug from a cache that someone else had left earlier in the day. I then visited another cache that day and dropped it. Only after I had gotten home and logged my visits did I realize I had taken the bug the wrong direction.

 

I never had a chance to read the goal before I found the bug. I could have taken it home, studied the goal, and then dropped it on the following weekend. I thought it would have been better just to keep it moving.

 

Now where did I park my car??????? monkes.gif

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Vash,

 

While I don't agree with your idea of blocking people from accessing travel bugs, I can identify with your frustration of going to a cache to nab a bug, only to learn that it's long gone.

 

I think education, while not 100% foolproof, is the answer.

 

Also, I found it very ironic that Old Bet has had a very similar thing happen as your Hawaii bug.

 

Old Bet was on her way to New Mexico from New York, and had made it as far as Texas... then someone picks her up and brings her 700 miles east. Their irony in their cache log is almost amusing. Old Bet's page says "...she would like to try to visit 2 special little boys in Los Alamos, New Mexico..." and the folks who took her the wrong way said they "left Old Bet, a travel bug. Please take her only if you can help her on her journy (she wants to go to the circus and visit other caches)."

 

I guess they didn't read Old Bet's page.

 

Jamie

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I guess I must be confused.

 

When I look at the caches I want to visit, I look to see if there is a travel bug in there. If there is, I'll look at the travel bug's page to see if it's goal is something that I think I can rationally do.

 

I guess I just figure: hey, if I'm logged in anyway, why not take a peek at the bug's page and see what's up with it?

 

So, I'm not sure why someone wouldn't be able to log in and see where the bug wants to go: isn't there time when you're deciding what cache to visit?

 

Shannah

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quote:
Originally posted by vash the stampede:

recently i came across a post about a travelbug

my question is about possible recourse. would there be a way maybe to identify, (by reporting them to the admins, or calculating by the logs how long they have had the bug) people who hamper the bug experience, and block them from being able to see caches with bugs in them?


 

*laugh* Moving a bug in the 'wrong direction' is one of the lesser evils that can and will happen to a bug. I have 4 bugs in the wild, and all of them have written on their tags that even if the finder can't help with the goal, that they should feel free to just pick it up and move it to another cache. I don't want to constrict my bug's possible movement.

 

I'm kinda of the attitude that a moving bug is a good thing. Get mad when someone steals it, or loses it, or when it sits in a 5/5 cache for a few months... but people just moving a bug in unwanted directions is going to happen. Trying to punish these people would be silly, imho.

 

quote:
ultimately the bug ... belongs to the person that purchased it and first placed it, and gave it its goal. these goals and the people who made them should be respected.

 

That would be nice, but this is the real world. First off, a lot of people don't care what you want the bug to do. They want to grab and log it, and then they want to be rid of it in whatever cache they find next. Second, many times people are hunting caches with their kids, and those kids will take a bug, thinking it is a regular item. Sure, they shouldn't... sure, the parents should check the item... but this isn't a perfect world, and that's not always gonna happen.

 

I dunno - I guess I just sent my bugs on their way, expecting them to fail. If they complete their goals, that's great... but I'm not out to punish those folks who don't explicitly follow my guidelines. icon_smile.gif

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

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quote:
Originally posted by vash the stampede:

recently i came across a post about a travelbug

my question is about possible recourse. would there be a way maybe to identify, (by reporting them to the admins, or calculating by the logs how long they have had the bug) people who hamper the bug experience, and block them from being able to see caches with bugs in them?


 

*laugh* Moving a bug in the 'wrong direction' is one of the lesser evils that can and will happen to a bug. I have 4 bugs in the wild, and all of them have written on their tags that even if the finder can't help with the goal, that they should feel free to just pick it up and move it to another cache. I don't want to constrict my bug's possible movement.

 

I'm kinda of the attitude that a moving bug is a good thing. Get mad when someone steals it, or loses it, or when it sits in a 5/5 cache for a few months... but people just moving a bug in unwanted directions is going to happen. Trying to punish these people would be silly, imho.

 

quote:
ultimately the bug ... belongs to the person that purchased it and first placed it, and gave it its goal. these goals and the people who made them should be respected.

 

That would be nice, but this is the real world. First off, a lot of people don't care what you want the bug to do. They want to grab and log it, and then they want to be rid of it in whatever cache they find next. Second, many times people are hunting caches with their kids, and those kids will take a bug, thinking it is a regular item. Sure, they shouldn't... sure, the parents should check the item... but this isn't a perfect world, and that's not always gonna happen.

 

I dunno - I guess I just sent my bugs on their way, expecting them to fail. If they complete their goals, that's great... but I'm not out to punish those folks who don't explicitly follow my guidelines. icon_smile.gif

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

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quote:
Originally posted by Team StitchesOnQuilts:

I guess I must be confused.

 

I'm not sure why someone wouldn't be able to log in and see where the bug wants to go: isn't there time when you're deciding what cache to visit?


 

I think most of us download geocache waypoints in big chunks... and they'll sit in the GPS until we go find them. So, this means that we don't always get to look at someone's cache page the minute before we go looking for it.

 

If I'm somewhere I haven't been in a while, I'll turn on the GPS and see if there are any caches in the area. If there is a bug, great... if not, that's fine too.

 

In fact, having a bunch of geocaches saved in your GPS sometimes means looking for a cache that has been archived... but those are the chances that you take when you download a bunch of waypoints at once.

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

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Vash, I suggest you not do a travel bug. I really think that it would only lead to disappointment for you - and I don't wanna hear on the news about some irate man who went and shot someone because they sat on a bug for a month. icon_smile.gif

 

That was a joke, of course... but seriously - if you are expecting perfection from every person that finds your bug, it just isn't gonna be a fun experience for you, imho.

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

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Vash, I suggest you not do a travel bug. I really think that it would only lead to disappointment for you - and I don't wanna hear on the news about some irate man who went and shot someone because they sat on a bug for a month. icon_smile.gif

 

That was a joke, of course... but seriously - if you are expecting perfection from every person that finds your bug, it just isn't gonna be a fun experience for you, imho.

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

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quote:
Originally posted by Team StitchesOnQuilts:

I guess I must be confused.

 

When I look at the caches I want to visit, I look to see if there is a travel bug in there. If there is, I'll look at the travel bug's page to see if it's goal is something that I think I can rationally do.

 

I guess I just figure: hey, if I'm logged in anyway, why not take a peek at the bug's page and see what's up with it?

 

So, I'm not sure why someone wouldn't be able to log in and see where the bug wants to go: isn't there time when you're deciding what cache to visit?

 

Shannah


 

Sometimes the bug shows up between when you last had access to the web and when you get to the cache. Perhaps the person who got to the cache while you were driving to the parking lot placed the bug.

 

Not all bugs have good information with them about their goal -- I suspect that most don't.

 

I used to grab ever bug I found and then see what I could do to help it. Twice I've had unpleasant experiences as a result, so now, mostly, I don't even look for them.

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cases of dont understand or dont care??? im not looking to "punish" anyone. i simply feel that there should be some way to help each of us to achieve the goals we set forth. thats why rules exist in the first place. to marty i would say, dont stop looking for bugs, just dont take every bug you see without knowing the goal, if it has one. i understand that some bugs are goaled to roam the country all willy nilly without a care in the world of where or when. but why should we who have more specific goals miss out on the fun of seeing our bug visit locales ALONG THE WAY, to the goal that we set? this is my main hesitation in placing one. and why am i considered uptight because i actualy thing that the goal is something to consider when snatching a bug, can you imagine getting in a cab..

"hey, the airport is 20 miles in the other direction, im trying to get somewhere"

"man, lighten up, maybe you should have walked or rented a car"

i know that sounds like a silly analogy, but some people place their bugs wanting them to travel to specific places or along specific trails and other people dont give a crap. then if they, or someone else says anything about it, screw them, they need to lighten up. plus, my main complaint that noone seems to want to address is that it was taken almost 2 weeks before it was logged. now i know that most people posting in here wouldnt care (espescialy if it was a bug someone else placed) but if something of mine went missing for 2 weeks, then showed up almost 1k miles off course.. i would be dissapointed and upset. maybe i am uptight for saying this but i stick to it, respect your fellow cachers and follow the guidlines they have for their bugs.

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It dawns on me, in this age of air travel, that the distance and direction you move a travel bug may not matter that much to whether you are helping it towards its goal.

 

After all, moving a travel bug from Napa to the Marin headland would get it closer to Hawaii than moving it to Sacramento, but moving it Sacramento might well get it closer to someone who is going to Hawaii.

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I might have to side with Vash on this one. Here's my sob story:

 

I created a travel bug with a goal of trying to reach my sister in England. Living in Ohio, I don't get to see her very often(obviously). I noted this on the Bug's site, attached a print-out of the goals of the bug to the bug. I then created a cache called "Travel Bug Airport Cache" with a goal of this cache being close to an international aiport so that Travel Bugs could get picked up by people on the way to the aiport to get close to the goals. This was noted in the description on the cache and my bug was placed in it was started. In two days, a cacher picked it up. They weren't going to the aiport. WTF? They logged, "Will place bug in a cache after doing research on traffic to England" WTF?! It has been four months and I have not heard from this cacher since and he does not respond to my emails. WTF?!!! Other than taken the bug to England myself, I don't know what else I could have done to ensure the success of my bug, but I was shafted nonetheless. Likewise, my other two bugs dissappeared due to unwise placement/handling after about 20 miles.

 

People are going to say, "Nyah! The rules say I can pick it up if I find it so I'm-a-gonna!" Nothing you can do to stop them. Recourse/retribution? Get real, this is an informal game not a business contract. My advice is this: Don't play. I'm not. Personally, I'm through with Travel Bugs. Travel Bugs are a good idea on paper, but most cachers just aren't that wise/experienced with bugs and it won't work, at least in my area. Just ask my bugs(Wherever they are...).

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I can semi-relate but I don't let it get to me. Of my 5 bugs, 3 are just sort of wandering, one has gone MIA, but one has made it all the way to South Africa from Cleveland, OH. It's right on track.

 

Don't let the bugs get to you. Most will eventually get to where they are going, but on their terms, not yours. Once you've released the bug you put yourself at the mercy of the geocaching gods. If you wanted the bug to get somewhere specific in a certain amount of time, you should have just taken it yourself.

 

Remember, it's all about the journey, not the destination.

 

Now where did I park my car??????? monkes.gif

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I can see two reasons for travelbugs - Seeing how far it goes, or seeing how frequently it moves. (I suppose you could be going for BOTH, but lets not gett TOO selfish here.

 

What are your preferences? Do those match the originator? I found myself with this question, so I contacted the owner (originator) of the bug. I can either place it in another cache, however our caches are soon to be buried in snow. That coupled with the fact that I will be traveling in the next month... I sent a note to the owner and asked what THEY wanted.

 

Isn't that fair? icon_confused.gif

 

Northern Trekker

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I can see two reasons for travelbugs - Seeing how far it goes, or seeing how frequently it moves. (I suppose you could be going for BOTH, but lets not gett TOO selfish here.

 

What are your preferences? Do those match the originator? I found myself with this question, so I contacted the owner (originator) of the bug. I can either place it in another cache, however our caches are soon to be buried in snow. That coupled with the fact that I will be traveling in the next month... I sent a note to the owner and asked what THEY wanted.

 

Isn't that fair? icon_confused.gif

 

Northern Trekker

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Well, you definitely seem to be the exception in terms of intelligence and consideration. Still, most people aren't. If you get any more complicated than "this bug is going anywhere", it is apparently too much for most cachers to handle. Travel Bugs suck. I'm not using them anymore and I discourage their use. It's too much hassle and heartache for too little return. Bleah!

 

 

Northern Trekker

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quote:
Originally posted by vash the stampede:

cases of dont understand or dont care??? im not looking to "punish" anyone.


 

Well, this is what you said: "my question is about possible recourse. would there be a way maybe to identify, (by reporting them to the admins, or calculating by the logs how long they have had the bug) people who hamper the bug experience, and block them from being able to see caches with bugs in them?"

 

Imho, that is punishment... and it could happen to 'innocent' geocachers who simply pick up, move, and drop-off a bug in one trip. They might not realize what they did, then WHAM - they get hit with the "you can't see anymore bugs" punishment.

 

quote:
to marty i would say, dont stop looking for bugs, just dont take every bug you see without knowing the goal, if it has one.

 

I agree with that as well - but the bug owner should make it known what the bug's goal is, either by a tag or enscription on the bug or something. Not everyone is able to check out a bug's online log before hunting. The first bug I found was in a baggie with a printout of it's online description - clearly stating the goal. So, if someone couldn't help it, they knew to leave it. I think that is a great idea, and did it with the four bugs I released.

 

quote:
then if they, or someone else says anything about it, screw them, they need to lighten up.

 

Hey, it isn't that any of us disagree with what you are saying... it would be GREAT if everyone that found and moved a bug did so with consideration towards the bug's goal. I think the reason everyone is replying to you like this, is because we want you to realize that there is very little chance of that actually happening. And, you seem pretty upset already - and you haven't even released your own bug yet. I can only imagine that it would be nothing but frustration for you once it was released.

 

quote:
plus, my main complaint that noone seems to want to address is that it was taken almost 2 weeks before it was logged.

 

Yeah, I think that is unacceptable... in fact, I'm watching Builder Dan and noticed that the other day someone logged, on the cache log page that he had taken that bug, yet he didn't log it on the BUG'S page... so of course, the bug was still shown as being in that cache.

 

I e-mailed that fellow, suggesting that he enter the bug's tracking number asap so that it would show up as being in his posession instead of in that cache. I saw he hadn't found a bug before, so I thought he might not have realized what he needed to do.

 

I don't think there is any harm in e-mailing someone and letting them know that you've noticed that they didn't log a bug yet. I'm pretty good at writing friendly e-mails with hints and suggestions, and so far nobody has gotten cheezed off at what I've said to them. icon_biggrin.gif

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

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quote:
Originally posted by vash the stampede:

cases of dont understand or dont care??? im not looking to "punish" anyone.


 

Well, this is what you said: "my question is about possible recourse. would there be a way maybe to identify, (by reporting them to the admins, or calculating by the logs how long they have had the bug) people who hamper the bug experience, and block them from being able to see caches with bugs in them?"

 

Imho, that is punishment... and it could happen to 'innocent' geocachers who simply pick up, move, and drop-off a bug in one trip. They might not realize what they did, then WHAM - they get hit with the "you can't see anymore bugs" punishment.

 

quote:
to marty i would say, dont stop looking for bugs, just dont take every bug you see without knowing the goal, if it has one.

 

I agree with that as well - but the bug owner should make it known what the bug's goal is, either by a tag or enscription on the bug or something. Not everyone is able to check out a bug's online log before hunting. The first bug I found was in a baggie with a printout of it's online description - clearly stating the goal. So, if someone couldn't help it, they knew to leave it. I think that is a great idea, and did it with the four bugs I released.

 

quote:
then if they, or someone else says anything about it, screw them, they need to lighten up.

 

Hey, it isn't that any of us disagree with what you are saying... it would be GREAT if everyone that found and moved a bug did so with consideration towards the bug's goal. I think the reason everyone is replying to you like this, is because we want you to realize that there is very little chance of that actually happening. And, you seem pretty upset already - and you haven't even released your own bug yet. I can only imagine that it would be nothing but frustration for you once it was released.

 

quote:
plus, my main complaint that noone seems to want to address is that it was taken almost 2 weeks before it was logged.

 

Yeah, I think that is unacceptable... in fact, I'm watching Builder Dan and noticed that the other day someone logged, on the cache log page that he had taken that bug, yet he didn't log it on the BUG'S page... so of course, the bug was still shown as being in that cache.

 

I e-mailed that fellow, suggesting that he enter the bug's tracking number asap so that it would show up as being in his posession instead of in that cache. I saw he hadn't found a bug before, so I thought he might not have realized what he needed to do.

 

I don't think there is any harm in e-mailing someone and letting them know that you've noticed that they didn't log a bug yet. I'm pretty good at writing friendly e-mails with hints and suggestions, and so far nobody has gotten cheezed off at what I've said to them. icon_biggrin.gif

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

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quote:
Originally posted by Goat6500:

Here's my sob story:

 

I created a travel bug with a goal of trying to reach my sister in England. I noted this on the Bug's site, attached a print-out of the goals of the bug to the bug. I then created a cache called "Travel Bug Airport Cache" with a goal of this cache being close to an international aiport so that Travel Bugs could get picked up by people on the way to the aiport to get close to the goals.


 

Exactly what I would have done... you really couldn't have done much more to make it painfully obvious to anyone finding the bug, what the goal was. That also helps make it even more frustrating when someone does what they did to your bug.

 

quote:
They logged, "Will place bug in a cache after doing research on traffic to England" WTF?! It has been four months and I have not heard from this cacher since and he does not respond to my emails. WTF?!!!

 

Heh - kind of a weird thing to say... Oh, I'm looking at the log for that cache - and I noticed someone has added a picture showing them reaching to find the cache - but that sure isn't where I had to reach to find it. Did you guys just change the coordinates on the original cache that was placed here, effectively transferring the old logs over to the 'new' cache?

 

quote:
People are going to say, "Nyah! The rules say I can pick it up if I find it so I'm-a-gonna!" Nothing you can do to stop them.

 

Yup. And I've already told myself that is exactly what will happen to my bugs, before I even let them loose... that way, I'll be pleasantly surprised if they do well. icon_biggrin.gif

 

quote:
Travel Bugs are a good idea on paper, but most cachers just aren't that wise/experienced with bugs and it won't work, at least in my area. Just ask my bugs(Wherever they are...).

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

 

[This message was edited by Rubbertoe on August 19, 2002 at 09:38 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Goat6500:

Here's my sob story:

 

I created a travel bug with a goal of trying to reach my sister in England. I noted this on the Bug's site, attached a print-out of the goals of the bug to the bug. I then created a cache called "Travel Bug Airport Cache" with a goal of this cache being close to an international aiport so that Travel Bugs could get picked up by people on the way to the aiport to get close to the goals.


 

Exactly what I would have done... you really couldn't have done much more to make it painfully obvious to anyone finding the bug, what the goal was. That also helps make it even more frustrating when someone does what they did to your bug.

 

quote:
They logged, "Will place bug in a cache after doing research on traffic to England" WTF?! It has been four months and I have not heard from this cacher since and he does not respond to my emails. WTF?!!!

 

Heh - kind of a weird thing to say... Oh, I'm looking at the log for that cache - and I noticed someone has added a picture showing them reaching to find the cache - but that sure isn't where I had to reach to find it. Did you guys just change the coordinates on the original cache that was placed here, effectively transferring the old logs over to the 'new' cache?

 

quote:
People are going to say, "Nyah! The rules say I can pick it up if I find it so I'm-a-gonna!" Nothing you can do to stop them.

 

Yup. And I've already told myself that is exactly what will happen to my bugs, before I even let them loose... that way, I'll be pleasantly surprised if they do well. icon_biggrin.gif

 

quote:
Travel Bugs are a good idea on paper, but most cachers just aren't that wise/experienced with bugs and it won't work, at least in my area. Just ask my bugs(Wherever they are...).

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

 

[This message was edited by Rubbertoe on August 19, 2002 at 09:38 AM.]

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I agree that a bug shouldn't be taken if the finder can't help the goal, but in this case, as Marty Fouts has said, does it really matter whether it's in California, Maine, or even Australia? Someone has to find it who is flying to Hawaii for it to get there; it can't leapfrog across the country to reach its goal. And it's no more likely that someone in the west is going to be flying there soon than someone in the east.

 

I recently left a TB in place whose goal is to get to Warsaw. I posted to the forums before I went for the cache, asking if anyone in the area was headed to Europe soon, and I might try to move it closer to them. No one responded, so I left the bug where it was; I figured it was more likely to be found by someone who could help it if it's sitting in a cache than if I took it out of circulation for a week. I *could* have moved it closer distance-wise to Poland by moving it east, but I might have been taking it out of play for someone who was flying to Spain the following week.

 

In short, when you're talking different land masses, the direction really doesn't matter. As long as that bug is in the contiguous US, it's in travel bug limbo as far as its goal is concerned.

 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by Goat6500:

I created a travel bug with a goal of trying to reach my sister in England. I then created a cache called "Travel Bug Airport Cache" with a goal of this cache being close to an international aiport so that Travel Bugs could get picked up by people on the way to the aiport to get close to the goals.


 

I was reading the online log for your travel bug called Buckeye Express, and I noticed that it never was officially placed in the Travel Bug Airport Cache.

 

The bug's log is a bit confusing, as it says the last place it was dropped off was actually in the Liberty Cache, which is a good distance away from the airport cache - where it was alleged to be only 3 days after being placed in the Liberty Cache across town.

 

If you look at the Liberty Cache log, you'll see on April 8th that Firetrotter (team e-trex) was there. He is the person who allegedly took your bug from the airport cache on the very next day.

 

If you ask me, that bug never even made it to the airport cache... I believe firetrotter found it in the Liberty Cache.

 

Now, the question is - why didn't it show up as being "grabbed from" in the log? Usually when a bug is moved from cache-to person-to cache, it shows up like:

 

welwell retrieved it from Gee, I didn't know this was here! by Pitufo

welwell placed it in Liberty Cache by Team Sequoia

 

but when firetrotter grabbed it, it just said:

 

firetrotter (team e-trex) grabbed it:

 

... and then in his own note, he said it was from the airport cache. Why wouldn't it have automagicaly said where he found it, like the other logs do? Anyone?

 

I'm just trying to figure out what's up... not sure I'm really getting anywhere with helping towards the problem of missing bugs, but that weird log progression has me interested now. icon_biggrin.gif

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

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quote:
Originally posted by Goat6500:

I created a travel bug with a goal of trying to reach my sister in England. I then created a cache called "Travel Bug Airport Cache" with a goal of this cache being close to an international aiport so that Travel Bugs could get picked up by people on the way to the aiport to get close to the goals.


 

I was reading the online log for your travel bug called Buckeye Express, and I noticed that it never was officially placed in the Travel Bug Airport Cache.

 

The bug's log is a bit confusing, as it says the last place it was dropped off was actually in the Liberty Cache, which is a good distance away from the airport cache - where it was alleged to be only 3 days after being placed in the Liberty Cache across town.

 

If you look at the Liberty Cache log, you'll see on April 8th that Firetrotter (team e-trex) was there. He is the person who allegedly took your bug from the airport cache on the very next day.

 

If you ask me, that bug never even made it to the airport cache... I believe firetrotter found it in the Liberty Cache.

 

Now, the question is - why didn't it show up as being "grabbed from" in the log? Usually when a bug is moved from cache-to person-to cache, it shows up like:

 

welwell retrieved it from Gee, I didn't know this was here! by Pitufo

welwell placed it in Liberty Cache by Team Sequoia

 

but when firetrotter grabbed it, it just said:

 

firetrotter (team e-trex) grabbed it:

 

... and then in his own note, he said it was from the airport cache. Why wouldn't it have automagicaly said where he found it, like the other logs do? Anyone?

 

I'm just trying to figure out what's up... not sure I'm really getting anywhere with helping towards the problem of missing bugs, but that weird log progression has me interested now. icon_biggrin.gif

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

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No, it was in the Airport cache.

 

I physically saw Pitufo(we cache together sometimes) pick the bug out of Liberty Cache. He then created the Airport Travel Bug Cache for the purpose of this bug. Somehow Firtrotter screwed up the log progression by manually logging it when he picked it out of the Airport Cache.

 

It's confusing, but trust me, that is how it happened. Besides, it doesn't change the fact that he shafted me.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Rubbertoe:

quote:
Originally posted by Goat6500:

I created a travel bug with a goal of trying to reach my sister in England. I then created a cache called "Travel Bug Airport Cache" with a goal of this cache being close to an international aiport so that Travel Bugs could get picked up by people on the way to the aiport to get close to the goals.


 

I was reading the online log for your travel bug called http://www.geocaching.com/track/track_detail.asp?ID=5631, and I noticed that it never was officially placed in the http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=19243.

 

The bug's log is a bit confusing, as it says the last place it was dropped off was actually in the http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=18305, which is a good distance away from the airport cache - where it was alleged to be only 3 days after being placed in the Liberty Cache across town.

 

If you look at the Liberty Cache log, you'll see on April 8th that http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=44869 was there. He is the person who allegedly took your bug from the airport cache on the very next day.

 

If you ask me, that bug never even made it to the airport cache... I believe firetrotter found it in the Liberty Cache.

 

Now, the question is - why didn't it show up as being "grabbed from" in the log? Usually when a bug is moved from cache-to person-to cache, it shows up like:

 

welwell retrieved it from Gee, I didn't know this was here! by Pitufo

welwell placed it in Liberty Cache by Team Sequoia

 

but when firetrotter grabbed it, it just said:

 

firetrotter (team e-trex) grabbed it:

 

... and then in his own note, he said it was from the airport cache. Why wouldn't it have automagicaly said where he found it, like the other logs do? Anyone?

 

I'm just trying to figure out what's up... not sure I'm really getting anywhere with helping towards the problem of missing bugs, but that weird log progression has me interested now. icon_biggrin.gif

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--


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No, it was in the Airport cache.

 

I physically saw Pitufo(we cache together sometimes) pick the bug out of Liberty Cache. He then created the Airport Travel Bug Cache for the purpose of this bug. Somehow Firtrotter screwed up the log progression by manually logging it when he picked it out of the Airport Cache.

 

It's confusing, but trust me, that is how it happened. Besides, it doesn't change the fact that he shafted me.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Rubbertoe:

quote:
Originally posted by Goat6500:

I created a travel bug with a goal of trying to reach my sister in England. I then created a cache called "Travel Bug Airport Cache" with a goal of this cache being close to an international aiport so that Travel Bugs could get picked up by people on the way to the aiport to get close to the goals.


 

I was reading the online log for your travel bug called http://www.geocaching.com/track/track_detail.asp?ID=5631, and I noticed that it never was officially placed in the http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=19243.

 

The bug's log is a bit confusing, as it says the last place it was dropped off was actually in the http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=18305, which is a good distance away from the airport cache - where it was alleged to be only 3 days after being placed in the Liberty Cache across town.

 

If you look at the Liberty Cache log, you'll see on April 8th that http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=44869 was there. He is the person who allegedly took your bug from the airport cache on the very next day.

 

If you ask me, that bug never even made it to the airport cache... I believe firetrotter found it in the Liberty Cache.

 

Now, the question is - why didn't it show up as being "grabbed from" in the log? Usually when a bug is moved from cache-to person-to cache, it shows up like:

 

welwell retrieved it from Gee, I didn't know this was here! by Pitufo

welwell placed it in Liberty Cache by Team Sequoia

 

but when firetrotter grabbed it, it just said:

 

firetrotter (team e-trex) grabbed it:

 

... and then in his own note, he said it was from the airport cache. Why wouldn't it have automagicaly said where he found it, like the other logs do? Anyone?

 

I'm just trying to figure out what's up... not sure I'm really getting anywhere with helping towards the problem of missing bugs, but that weird log progression has me interested now. icon_biggrin.gif

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--


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quote:
Originally posted by Goat6500:

No, it was in the Airport cache.

 

I physically saw Pitufo(we cache together sometimes) pick the bug out of Liberty Cache. He then created the Airport Travel Bug Cache for the purpose of this bug. Somehow Firtrotter screwed up the log progression by manually logging it when he picked it out of the Airport Cache.


 

Hmm - almost looks like Pitufo might not have remembered to log that bug when he moved it then, because I don't even see any entry from him on the bug logs at all.

 

Granted, that doesn't mean that firetrotter didn't shaft you by keeping your bug - but perhaps since the log wasn't accurately showing that the bug had been moved from liberty cache and placed into the airport cache, perhaps that is why the other information is missing from firetrotter's log... maybe that is why it just says "firetrotter grabbed it:" without any information from where.

 

Of course, that isn't excusing firetrotter.

 

- Toe.

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

 

[This message was edited by Rubbertoe on August 21, 2002 at 11:37 AM.]

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I had to laugh. I dropped off a bug on June 29. It was picked up August 10. Then dropped off today (August 25). Not too bad.

 

Ah, but get this. It was dropped off today in one of my own caches for an 18 mile backtrack! Hah! Hope it gets out west soon.

 

Take Me to Your Leader

 

-----------

"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." - Mark Twain

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You're at the mercy of the hunters. You have to live with it.

 

I'm really new to the sport, as is my wife, but already we've noticed people picking nice items and leaving junk. One cache over the weekend had a toothbrush and a comb in it! After finding a live roach in the cache, who the heck would want that? At least the brush could be used to clean something outside your mouth, but the comb?

 

Too many times we've come across junking caches. No wonder you see so many "TN-LN"

 

Some here have given up on TBs, but that's the thing we will pick up faster than anything. If there isn't a note on it stating what the goal is, we'll take it to the house and look it up. We'll also see where it's been and put it somewhere else. We try not to keep it more than a week.

 

Looking forward to starting my own TBs, most of which will have no particular goal, but hwy I'm gonna give it a try.

 

CR

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I recently picked up a travel bug that wanted to go to Disneyworld. I moved it from Idaho to Texas. Not necessarily the wrong direction, but not what the owners wanted. They emailed me there wishes, and the next time I got to that cache I picked it back up and put it back on the proper trail. I guess what I am trying to say is if you have a problem maybe an email will set the bug back on course. icon_razz.gif

 

Lost? Keep Going. You're making good time anyway!!

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I recently picked up a travel bug that wanted to go to Disneyworld. I moved it from Idaho to Texas. Not necessarily the wrong direction, but not what the owners wanted. They emailed me there wishes, and the next time I got to that cache I picked it back up and put it back on the proper trail. I guess what I am trying to say is if you have a problem maybe an email will set the bug back on course. icon_razz.gif

 

Lost? Keep Going. You're making good time anyway!!

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quote:
Originally posted by Night Stalker:

I recently picked up a travel bug that wanted to go to Disneyworld. I moved it from Idaho to Texas. Not necessarily the wrong direction, but not what the owners wanted.


 

I would believe that I-10 is one of the most direct routes to Disneyworld or to Disneyland for that matter. I-10 goes through Texas, not Idaho. I believe you moved the bug in the right direction... It's owners may be a bit on the fussy side... Perhaps it should have been sent by mail. "It's not about the destination, It's about the journey." Just MHO. icon_wink.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Night Stalker:

I recently picked up a travel bug that wanted to go to Disneyworld. I moved it from Idaho to Texas. Not necessarily the wrong direction, but not what the owners wanted.


 

I would believe that I-10 is one of the most direct routes to Disneyworld or to Disneyland for that matter. I-10 goes through Texas, not Idaho. I believe you moved the bug in the right direction... It's owners may be a bit on the fussy side... Perhaps it should have been sent by mail. "It's not about the destination, It's about the journey." Just MHO. icon_wink.gif

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I "know" a geocacher who gave it to a friend to put in alaska but forgot to check the number so it ended in my cache.I emailed them about it not being on the travel bug page, they asked for the number then fixed it so sometimes a little mistake can get it lost or put in a wrong cache so just email them and sometimes they'le fix it icon_smile.gif

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This has everything to do with why I am busy developing my "Travel Bug Protection Kits" for my PDX Airport Travel Bug Lounge Cache.

 

Right now, they manifest as a whole bunch of Ziplok bags held together by an oversized binder clip. Also attached to the clip are a pack of fillable TB explanation/goal cards, approximately 4 inches by 2.5 inches. (Used to be a much bigger and non-fill-out-able card design)

 

Cachers with bugs for the cahce will fill out the card, then put TB and card into the ziplock bag.

 

The next cache visitor then finds it darn convenient to be able to know the goal and be able to wisely choose whether to take the bug or not.

 

The cards are currently designed to state "TB's Goal" place-to-fill-out as well as a "TB's NEW Goal", in case the TB's mission ever changes. icon_smile.gif

 

I will be posting these cards in easy PDF format at www.dreamcircle.com/gcache this weekend, with instructions for printing and assembling one's own TB protection kits. Might be useful to others, I hope. icon_cool.gif

 

-Elana (a.k.a. "Sparrowhawk")

peepwall.gif

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I have around 13 TBs in the system, with various goals, because there was a section in the TB registration to write one down. However, once I release the travelbug, it is left to fate, karma, kismet, serendipity, and the various idiosyncracies of the Geocaching public that determines the ultimate destiny of that bug. To my mind, the purpose of releasing a bug into the wild is to sit back and enjoy the journey. Anywhere and everywhere is possible and nothing is pre-ordained. Think of it as a giant experiment in Chaos theory. The more you try to control it from afar, the far greater chance you have of disrupting the natural forces of random movement, and ultimately having the traveler do the exact opposite of what you intend.

 

It seems to me, if you want perfect control over a travel bug, say having it travel in some uninspiring straight line between Moscow, Idaho, and Cartegena, Columbia, then you should carry it yourself, logging it as you find caches, but only the ones that will go the direction you intend the bug to travel. You won't have to rely on winsome geocachers without reference or histories of conformity to the demands of a consumed, vocal minority.

 

What I would like to see happen, and I've passed this on to the Geocaching Commisars, is establishment of an "Amber Alert" page. When a TB is found to be missing, the owner can log onto the page with the registration number, log the bug, its description and last known location and date of sighting, and have this info flashed to all the registered users. No other info allowed. That way people can help find these lost items, remind people to log them, and get them moving again.

 

'nuff said.

 

So many caches, so little time! The forest awaits!

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Ah, an old thread that's popped up again.

 

Re original point: One buys the bug and tag, but they're then placed into the public domain (so to speak) and any use is fair use. There are no enforceable bug rules: no recourse.

 

I agree with Markwell, it's the journey (paraphrase). I like to help goals, and love to do the roadtrip. I just toured B-17 through a couple of historic airfields and got a photo next to an actual rare B-17.

 

Of my own dozen bugs, over half are MIA. Two of them were MIA for months but I eventually recovered them (whole and in parts); I foolishly relaunched them into oblivion. I was bummed when my cute Bullet Train did not make it to Japan, as was promised, but I have it's picture.

 

I've handled 350 bugs, now, and they tend to go missing at some point in time. This past weekend, I was bummed to not find a bug I passed earlier, T & A Cavewoman http://www.geocaching.com/track/track_detail.asp?ID=33929 and thought she was stolen from a kid plunderable cache; all is well, just a late logging. Hate to be one of the last to place a bug.

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