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Geocaching can be Dangerous


avantnoise

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Well me and the wife were looking to place our first Cache and the spot we scouted was fine... but the she said he look at that hole in the fence... we were behind a shopping area.. it look perfect but when we went in.. in the distance i could see what look like a camping area... and i said to my wife people are living here lets get out of here.. and she started commenting to me how sad it was the people are living here and when we turned to leave 2 pretty big guys... walked in... my wife actually let out a scream because she was startled.... This was the first time I had wished i brought at least a knife with me.... they right away asked if we were looking for someone... and my wife tried to explain why we were there.. and we would not tell anyone about where they live.... now it went ok... but i could work out the situation in my head on how bad this could have went..... my first instinct was not to go in... and we live in a really nice area...and when looking at the sat view of this area there is a lot of woods here..... i was not very happy with my wife because she insisted we look and.. my instinct was to not... so right now i will always carry a knife with me when caching..... because something that was innocent turned into a possible tragedy... just my opinion...but i just want people to know they must be careful with our hobby.....

 

sLY

 

Yes this situation could have been uglier. I do carry a firearm, but nevertheless it's best to have good verbal skills in these situations than a quick draw. To someone who is that defensive about their territory and doesn't know anything about geocaching, the explanation is going to sound doubly like bull. However, when confronted with threatening speech or body posture, responding with what could be perceived as a return threat or a spin will only escalate the situation. Keep a non-threatening posture, and speak calmly and firmly. Take all insults and don't respond to accusations defensively. Rather, continue explaining your business. Some things inevitably become physical, but by and large if the person encountered isn't planning to use force in the first place it won't get to that point unless provoked to it. Try to figure out what is causing the other person to be aggressive or defensive and work the conversation about alleviating that.

 

After 10 years of working in the prison system, I've learned the best protection you can have is interpersonal skills.

 

Excellent post.

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I think the main thing people are taking issue with is the suggestion that "Geocaching can be Dangerous" so I'm gonna arm myself.

 

If you would find yourself in the real world carrying a gun changing a flat tire, going into the bank, being in the woods, or anywhere else in the "real world," then perhaps you'd be ok carrying a weapon while geocaching (with proper knowledge on not only how to use the weapon, but how not to need to use it!). However, if you wouldn't find yourself carrying a weapon in these real world situations, perhaps you should reconsider carrying one while geocaching.

 

Absolutely, so we talk about being reasonable and safe.

Edited by BlueDeuce
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An even better defence is to stay the heck outta other peoples homes. Right or wrong and for whatever reason these people are living in a place that most folks can't fathom. It is their home, even if it is not legal. We should just stay the hell out.
The idea that we should not go to places that we are legally able to go simply because others have chosen to live there illegally does not follow.
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Do any geocaching GPSr have an emergency bacon? So i could hit a button and it transmit an SOS and my location?

Are you seriously afraid? Even if you did meet someone in the woods they probably wouldn't hurt you... Plus you could just fight back! Or if you fear they have a weapon... Run.

Belittling someone's concerns serves no purpose. While I think that an SOS button on a GPSr isn't the best way to deal with this, being aware that there are potential problems in this world is just common sense. There have been attacks in all manner of places -- the woods, churches, schools, shopping malls, work places, rest stops, etc, etc -- so you making fun of this person for being concerned is uncalled for.

 

Rather than simply having an SOS button to push (a person would be well served to have a personal locator beacon in a lot of remote places), taking the steps to ensure one's personal safety should start with situational awareness and an alertness to a situation that doesn't seem right, and then by having the tools to deal with the situation.

 

Pepper foam is a good first line of defense against an attack, as it won't blow back in your face, will incapacitate a lot of attackers (but not all), and won't do permanent damage.

 

A knife is something I always carry, but as a tool -- works great for opening packages, cutting thread, etc. As a weapon, a knife is a poor choice. It may have some intimidation value, but a lot of homeless people will have bigger/more knives, and not be too hesitant to use them. Plus, do you really want to get in close enough to someone to slash/stab them? What an awful thing to have to do. Unless there's absolutely no other option, you better believe I'm gonna beat feet to get out of there.

 

Carrying a gun is an option, and could save your life, but this choice needs to be considered very carefully, too. Killing a person, or seriously wounding them, is a heavy burden to carry on your conscience. If it came down to me/my family or them, I know the choice I'd make. However, the best course is to listen to that voice that tells you you're not in a good place, and even if your wife is insisting, turn around and exit the area.

 

To the OP: however versed you are in weapon craft, if you don't have a weapon with you it ain't gonna do you no good a-tall. Carry the tools you need with you, and you'll be much more relaxed about life in general.

 

A cell phone is no substitute for being adequately prepared.

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An even better defence is to stay the heck outta other peoples homes. Right or wrong and for whatever reason these people are living in a place that most folks can't fathom. It is their home, even if it is not legal. We should just stay the hell out.
The idea that we should not go to places that we are legally able to go simply because others have chosen to live there illegally does not follow.

 

Perhaps. But that doesn't make doing so a good idea. These people don't choose to live "on the street". I'm sure they would prefer to live in some suburban dream house or posh urban loft. But life is what it is. You can't expect them not to be protective of what few belongings they have.

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Those safety rules hold true when you are going into the convenience store to pay for your gas. This is not a geocaching related issue. It is a situational awareness issue. Does that include geocaching? You BET it does. It also includes a flat tire in the "wrong" part of town, or going to the bank at the wrong time.

 

Geocaching is part of the real world. What's your problem with the question?

 

We can't talk about going outside?

 

There are plenty of threads talking about this same issue.

 

I didn't say we can't talk about it. I said basically what t4e just said in the post above yours.
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An even better defence is to stay the heck outta other peoples homes. Right or wrong and for whatever reason these people are living in a place that most folks can't fathom. It is their home, even if it is not legal. We should just stay the hell out.
The idea that we should not go to places that we are legally able to go simply because others have chosen to live there illegally does not follow.

I take a middle road. Certainly I can go look for a geocache placed on public property. If that cache is near a homeless persons belongings or I go past some homeless people, I treat them with respect. I may end up DNFing a cache or coming back later to look for it.

 

One thing I have learned from geocaching is that there are homeless living everywhere, even in affluent communities. And the places the tend to make their camps are often also good places to hide geocaches. Sometimes the geocache was there first, sometime the homeless person. I'll post in my logs to let others know if there are homeless so they can decide wheter or not they want to deal with the cache.

Edited by tozainamboku
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An even better defence is to stay the heck outta other peoples homes. Right or wrong and for whatever reason these people are living in a place that most folks can't fathom. It is their home, even if it is not legal. We should just stay the hell out.
The idea that we should not go to places that we are legally able to go simply because others have chosen to live there illegally does not follow.

 

Perhaps. But that doesn't make doing so a good idea. These people don't choose to live "on the street". I'm sure they would prefer to live in some suburban dream house or posh urban loft. But life is what it is. You can't expect them not to be protective of what few belongings they have.

So basically, the best answer is to call the codes dept and let them have the person removed.

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An even better defence is to stay the heck outta other peoples homes. Right or wrong and for whatever reason these people are living in a place that most folks can't fathom. It is their home, even if it is not legal. We should just stay the hell out.
The idea that we should not go to places that we are legally able to go simply because others have chosen to live there illegally does not follow.
There's something I believe enough that I put it in my sig line:
Just because you can do something doesn't necessarily mean that you should.
To follow your logic, your statement could be, more broadly:
The idea that we should not go to places that we are legally able to go simply because we might be hurt or worse does not follow.
To go somewhere just because you can is not always advisable. Edited by Too Tall John
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An even better defence is to stay the heck outta other peoples homes. Right or wrong and for whatever reason these people are living in a place that most folks can't fathom. It is their home, even if it is not legal. We should just stay the hell out.
The idea that we should not go to places that we are legally able to go simply because others have chosen to live there illegally does not follow.

 

Perhaps. But that doesn't make doing so a good idea. These people don't choose to live "on the street". I'm sure they would prefer to live in some suburban dream house or posh urban loft. But life is what it is. You can't expect them not to be protective of what few belongings they have.

So basically, the best answer is to call the codes dept and let them have the person removed.

 

Well there is a solution for the problem. :)

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An even better defence is to stay the heck outta other peoples homes. Right or wrong and for whatever reason these people are living in a place that most folks can't fathom. It is their home, even if it is not legal. We should just stay the hell out.
The idea that we should not go to places that we are legally able to go simply because others have chosen to live there illegally does not follow.
There's something I believe enough that I put it in my sig line:
Just because you can do something doesn't necessarily mean that you should.
To follow your logic, your statement could be, more broadly:
The idea that we should not go to places that we are legally able to go simply because we might be hurt or worse does not follow.
To go somewhere just because you can is not always advisable.

You read much into my post that wasn't there. It led you to a faulty conclusion.
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Yes this situation could have been uglier. I do carry a firearm, but nevertheless it's best to have good verbal skills in these situations than a quick draw. To someone who is that defensive about their territory and doesn't know anything about geocaching, the explanation is going to sound doubly like bull. However, when confronted with threatening speech or body posture, responding with what could be perceived as a return threat or a spin will only escalate the situation. Keep a non-threatening posture, and speak calmly and firmly. Take all insults and don't respond to accusations defensively. Rather, continue explaining your business. Some things inevitably become physical, but by and large if the person encountered isn't planning to use force in the first place it won't get to that point unless provoked to it. Try to figure out what is causing the other person to be aggressive or defensive and work the conversation about alleviating that.

 

After 10 years of working in the prison system, I've learned the best protection you can have is interpersonal skills.

 

Thank you. nice post.

 

Agreed, one of the best ever made in discussions of this type that come up.

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Are you seriously afraid? Even if you did meet someone in the woods they probably wouldn't hurt you... Plus you could just fight back! Or if you fear they have a weapon... Run.

Not necessarily true. A friend placed a cache in the woods along a trail. Of course, cachers, being adventuresome, found a shortcut to the cache, through the woods in the same park, but their way passed a "camp."

 

This was not an ordinary homeless camp, however. The camp was surrounded by trip wires and other warning devices and was being used for drug manufacturing. It would be hard to fight back against a group of people with guns. Running...can't outrun a bullet.

Edited by Skippermark
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...i can't find pepper spray in my town, i've looked in walmart and walgreens.

Most any gun shop would have it.

What state do you live in? There may be some regulations against it in certain US States/Canada?

 

Just checked and it looks like pepper spray is legal in FL. As noted, a gun shop should have it.

Edited by Skippermark
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I'm glad you made it out ok.

 

A weapon isn't necessarily the answer though. I think its better to stay aware of your surroundings than arm yourself.

 

In the interest of full disclosure I have a wicked knife in my car and a canister of pepper spray on a carabineer in my brief bag. Plus I'm a shotokan dan.

 

More importantly I'm a marathon runner so if someone tries something I'm going to take off like a thing perused by the devil and we'll have to start this little encounter over again 26.2 miles away.

 

Ok I can't really sprint THAT far but I can probably sprint far enough to find a security guard with a hero complex to deal with the problem.

 

edited because my ' turned into little boxes

?

Edited by lachupa
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...A weapon isn't necessarily the answer though. I think its better to stay aware of your surroundings than arm yourself.

 

In the interest of full disclosure I have a wicked knife in my car and a canister of pepper spray on a carabineer in my brief bag. Plus I'm a shotokan dan...

Well, Shotokan Dan, arming yourself gives you options when that awareness of your surroundings tells you you're in trouble, but you either can't run or it isn't an option because of who you're with.

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I'm still not understanding what it was that you felt threatened by. Did these two large, apparently homeless men threaten you? Was there a fight, or the threat of a fight? So you ran into to men that are bigger than you.... that in itself is not a problem I'm not saying that you didn't, or that you shouldn't have felt some caution, but you haven't told us anything yet that should have provoked the sort of reaction that would indicate that you should start carrying a knife while caching.

 

well lets put it this way... i am large myself and can handle myself... maybe felt off because the love of my life was with me... understand my natural reaction is not one of aggression but yes i will defend myself... but if we were attacked and i was unarmed in this situation it would have been a mess.

But you were not attacked, were you? For all I can tell, these were just a couple of large puppy dogs, and you feel like you should arm yourself.

 

OK, to change tack a bit, you are from New York, I am from Minnesota. Depending on where in New York, you could be from a drastically different environment. But I have been caching for 6 years and over 5000 finds and I have yet to go after one single cache that left me feeling like I needed to arm myself. Maybe I'm just lucky, maybe I'm in a safer city, maybe I'm just stupid, but for you to already come here after six finds and post a message about how dangerous geocaching can be is at best unfortunate.

Funny, I am in NYC and have felt more unsafe caching in areas of Florida than I ever had anywhere in NYC.

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Yes this situation could have been uglier. I do carry a firearm, but nevertheless it's best to have good verbal skills in these situations than a quick draw. To someone who is that defensive about their territory and doesn't know anything about geocaching, the explanation is going to sound doubly like bull. However, when confronted with threatening speech or body posture, responding with what could be perceived as a return threat or a spin will only escalate the situation. Keep a non-threatening posture, and speak calmly and firmly. Take all insults and don't respond to accusations defensively. Rather, continue explaining your business. Some things inevitably become physical, but by and large if the person encountered isn't planning to use force in the first place it won't get to that point unless provoked to it. Try to figure out what is causing the other person to be aggressive or defensive and work the conversation about alleviating that.

 

After 10 years of working in the prison system, I've learned the best protection you can have is interpersonal skills.

 

Thank you. nice post.

 

Thank you for putting an end to the assumption that all of us who carry are just itching to pull out our firearms and blow someone away. In fact we are probably more reluctant to use force, knowing the result of pulling the trigger. Often times if you can show the confidence that comes from being both trained and prepared that telegraphs a message to a predator to look elsewhere. Likewise trying to placate or talk your way out sends the message you are prey.

 

As for pepper spray, good stuff but not the end all of self defense. Can you deploy it quickly enough? Has your canister leaked or has the orifice become plugged from pocket lint? Don’t think it can't be used against you the same as a gun or knife.

 

Situational awareness, best idea but again not the end all, be all. You are gonna miss a clue or be fooled. Bad guys will use any means to get within ~21 feet of you. They will want to know the time, ask if you dropped this or that. After that if you aren't trained, you'll be toast.

 

People don't want to live on the street. That is what people who have no experience with the homeless often think. Yeah 95% probably don't, but when you run into the rest, the ones who are anti social, mentally ill or some other have problem, you find out quickly they don't think like you. Don’t look at the homeless through Bambi colored glasses.

 

The key is to find the combination of techniques that work for you.

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I'm still not understanding what it was that you felt threatened by. Did these two large, apparently homeless men threaten you? Was there a fight, or the threat of a fight? So you ran into to men that are bigger than you.... that in itself is not a problem I'm not saying that you didn't, or that you shouldn't have felt some caution, but you haven't told us anything yet that should have provoked the sort of reaction that would indicate that you should start carrying a knife while caching.

 

well lets put it this way... i am large myself and can handle myself... maybe felt off because the love of my life was with me... understand my natural reaction is not one of aggression but yes i will defend myself... but if we were attacked and i was unarmed in this situation it would have been a mess.

But you were not attacked, were you? For all I can tell, these were just a couple of large puppy dogs, and you feel like you should arm yourself.

 

OK, to change tack a bit, you are from New York, I am from Minnesota. Depending on where in New York, you could be from a drastically different environment. But I have been caching for 6 years and over 5000 finds and I have yet to go after one single cache that left me feeling like I needed to arm myself. Maybe I'm just lucky, maybe I'm in a safer city, maybe I'm just stupid, but for you to already come here after six finds and post a message about how dangerous geocaching can be is at best unfortunate.

Funny, I am in NYC and have felt more unsafe caching in areas of Florida than I ever had anywhere in NYC.

 

Because the experience is so different than what you are used to. You are out of your element. You don't know what to expect. Someone who is at home in a swamp in Florida may be uncomfortable in times square. Most NYers would walk through without giving it a second thought.

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Yes this situation could have been uglier. I do carry a firearm, but nevertheless it's best to have good verbal skills in these situations than a quick draw. To someone who is that defensive about their territory and doesn't know anything about geocaching, the explanation is going to sound doubly like bull. However, when confronted with threatening speech or body posture, responding with what could be perceived as a return threat or a spin will only escalate the situation. Keep a non-threatening posture, and speak calmly and firmly. Take all insults and don't respond to accusations defensively. Rather, continue explaining your business. Some things inevitably become physical, but by and large if the person encountered isn't planning to use force in the first place it won't get to that point unless provoked to it. Try to figure out what is causing the other person to be aggressive or defensive and work the conversation about alleviating that.

 

After 10 years of working in the prison system, I've learned the best protection you can have is interpersonal skills.

 

Thank you. nice post.

 

Thank you for putting an end to the assumption that all of us who carry are just itching to pull out our firearms and blow someone away. In fact we are probably more reluctant to use force, knowing the result of pulling the trigger. Often times if you can show the confidence that comes from being both trained and prepared that telegraphs a message to a predator to look elsewhere. Likewise trying to placate or talk your way out sends the message you are prey.

 

As for pepper spray, good stuff but not the end all of self defense. Can you deploy it quickly enough? Has your canister leaked or has the orifice become plugged from pocket lint? Don’t think it can't be used against you the same as a gun or knife.

 

Situational awareness, best idea but again not the end all, be all. You are gonna miss a clue or be fooled. Bad guys will use any means to get within ~21 feet of you. They will want to know the time, ask if you dropped this or that. After that if you aren't trained, you'll be toast.

 

People don't want to live on the street. That is what people who have no experience with the homeless often think. Yeah 95% probably don't, but when you run into the rest, the ones who are anti social, mentally ill or some other have problem, you find out quickly they don't think like you. Don’t look at the homeless through Bambi colored glasses.

 

The key is to find the combination of techniques that work for you.

 

Without the training weapons will often get you in more trouble that they get you out of. Even with training most people are not prepared mentally to do what needs to be done. If you pull a weapon on someone and aren't really prepared to use it it will be taken away from you. It is one of the reasons pepper spray is so popular and, for some, a good choice in weapons. People who won't shoot or stab someone won't think twice about spraying someone. The consequences aren't as sever. But even so, proper training is important.

 

After I got out of the Army I took a jog as a security guard in a nursing facility. Some of the nurses kept pepper spray on their key chains. They felt safer walking to their cars after a late ending shift. Thing is few of them took their keys out of their purse until they got to their cars. Pointless and most of them wouldn't listen to me.It was always "Oh yeah. I forgot" "Only every night this week."

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Yes this situation could have been uglier. I do carry a firearm, but nevertheless it's best to have good verbal skills in these situations than a quick draw. To someone who is that defensive about their territory and doesn't know anything about geocaching, the explanation is going to sound doubly like bull. However, when confronted with threatening speech or body posture, responding with what could be perceived as a return threat or a spin will only escalate the situation. Keep a non-threatening posture, and speak calmly and firmly. Take all insults and don't respond to accusations defensively. Rather, continue explaining your business. Some things inevitably become physical, but by and large if the person encountered isn't planning to use force in the first place it won't get to that point unless provoked to it. Try to figure out what is causing the other person to be aggressive or defensive and work the conversation about alleviating that.

 

After 10 years of working in the prison system, I've learned the best protection you can have is interpersonal skills.

 

Thank you. nice post.

 

Thank you for putting an end to the assumption that all of us who carry are just itching to pull out our firearms and blow someone away. In fact we are probably more reluctant to use force, knowing the result of pulling the trigger. Often times if you can show the confidence that comes from being both trained and prepared that telegraphs a message to a predator to look elsewhere. Likewise trying to placate or talk your way out sends the message you are prey.

 

As for pepper spray, good stuff but not the end all of self defense. Can you deploy it quickly enough? Has your canister leaked or has the orifice become plugged from pocket lint? Don’t think it can't be used against you the same as a gun or knife.

 

Situational awareness, best idea but again not the end all, be all. You are gonna miss a clue or be fooled. Bad guys will use any means to get within ~21 feet of you. They will want to know the time, ask if you dropped this or that. After that if you aren't trained, you'll be toast.

 

People don't want to live on the street. That is what people who have no experience with the homeless often think. Yeah 95% probably don't, but when you run into the rest, the ones who are anti social, mentally ill or some other have problem, you find out quickly they don't think like you. Don’t look at the homeless through Bambi colored glasses.

 

The key is to find the combination of techniques that work for you.

 

Without the training weapons will often get you in more trouble that they get you out of. Even with training most people are not prepared mentally to do what needs to be done. If you pull a weapon on someone and aren't really prepared to use it it will be taken away from you. It is one of the reasons pepper spray is so popular and, for some, a good choice in weapons. People who won't shoot or stab someone won't think twice about spraying someone. The consequences aren't as sever. But even so, proper training is important.

 

After I got out of the Army I took a jog as a security guard in a nursing facility. Some of the nurses kept pepper spray on their key chains. They felt safer walking to their cars after a late ending shift. Thing is few of them took their keys out of their purse until they got to their cars. Pointless and most of them wouldn't listen to me.It was always "Oh yeah. I forgot" "Only every night this week."

 

Hey that is how I got started too. Working security at a psych hospital on the night shift. Nothing like spending your holidays with people who think they are JFK or a floor lamp.

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"Even with training most people are not prepared mentally to do what needs to be done."

 

You know that really is the key issue. Not just with weapons either. Many think they will kick some butt with their hands and feet but since they really don't believe, I mean actually believe, someone can and will do them harm the opponent gets the advantage and they are playing catch up. Not a good position.

Edited by hoosier guy
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Getting back to topic:

 

1.The OP has 6 finds in one year, suggesting to me that they do not have an extreme familiarity with all of the types of places surrounding them. The do not have the requisite familiarity with their area.

2. With 6 finds , in my view , they are premature in their assessment of what they need to know as it pertains to making their first hide. Behind a shopping center is almost always a trashed out buffer area for drainage and to separate the center from residential area. In the NY metro area.

3. They seemed completely oblivious to the access presented by the hole in the fence. That is a fairly typical arrangement for homeless encampments in this area. Other signs--blue tarps, resin chairs, milk crates, smokey odor and well worn treadways into such areas. People walking with provisions in bags for long distances.

 

The OP felt that they were somehow in danger, chances are they were not, they were more likely hysterical and frightened -- which is a far cry from being in danger. You might feel uncomfortable walking through a homeless camp, but the residents are often fearful that outsiders are there to displace them. Better for neither to feel out of sorts, so stay out is a normal way to treat.

 

The OP's comment that they live in a "really nice area" speaks volumes to me as to their lack of exposure to the underside of the area.

Edited by Packanack
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I'm still not understanding what it was that you felt threatened by. Did these two large, apparently homeless men threaten you? Was there a fight, or the threat of a fight? So you ran into to men that are bigger than you.... that in itself is not a problem I'm not saying that you didn't, or that you shouldn't have felt some caution, but you haven't told us anything yet that should have provoked the sort of reaction that would indicate that you should start carrying a knife while caching.

 

well lets put it this way... i am large myself and can handle myself... maybe felt off because the love of my life was with me... understand my natural reaction is not one of aggression but yes i will defend myself... but if we were attacked and i was unarmed in this situation it would have been a mess.

But you were not attacked, were you? For all I can tell, these were just a couple of large puppy dogs, and you feel like you should arm yourself.

 

OK, to change tack a bit, you are from New York, I am from Minnesota. Depending on where in New York, you could be from a drastically different environment. But I have been caching for 6 years and over 5000 finds and I have yet to go after one single cache that left me feeling like I needed to arm myself. Maybe I'm just lucky, maybe I'm in a safer city, maybe I'm just stupid, but for you to already come here after six finds and post a message about how dangerous geocaching can be is at best unfortunate.

Funny, I am in NYC and have felt more unsafe caching in areas of Florida than I ever had anywhere in NYC.

 

Because the experience is so different than what you are used to. You are out of your element. You don't know what to expect. Someone who is at home in a swamp in Florida may be uncomfortable in times square. Most NYers would walk through without giving it a second thought.

 

Nope no problem with the swamp, no problem with walking into areas with panthers and gators, more with the people.

Find that many areas of this country are not open to people with my racial background, but that is another issue and another thread.

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Do any geocaching GPSr have an emergency bacon? So i could hit a button and it transmit an SOS and my location?

 

mmmmm emergency bacon.

 

In all seriousness though. Going any place, no matter what we are doing; be it caching, hiking, shopping, etc involves some amount of common sense. There are always risks involved with anything we do really. I would say that life itself has the possibility of danger. You never know what could happen. I choose to use as much common sense as possible no matter what I'm doing, and to take the proper precautions to protect myself if need be. Being prepared is always a good thing. BUT, that doesn't necessarily mean that something or somebody is dangerous. There's a difference between preparedness and paranoia.

 

I can't remember who said it... but "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst."

Edited by nymphnsatyr
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Well me and the wife were looking to place our first Cache and the spot we scouted was fine... but the she said he look at that hole in the fence... we were behind a shopping area.. it look perfect but when we went in.. in the distance i could see what look like a camping area... and i said to my wife people are living here lets get out of here.. and she started commenting to me how sad it was the people are living here and when we turned to leave 2 pretty big guys... walked in... my wife actually let out a scream because she was startled.... This was the first time I had wished i brought at least a knife with me.... they right away asked if we were looking for someone... and my wife tried to explain why we were there.. and we would not tell anyone about where they live.... now it went ok... but i could work out the situation in my head on how bad this could have went..... my first instinct was not to go in... and we live in a really nice area...and when looking at the sat view of this area there is a lot of woods here..... i was not very happy with my wife because she insisted we look and.. my instinct was to not... so right now i will always carry a knife with me when caching..... because something that was innocent turned into a possible tragedy... just my opinion...but i just want people to know they must be careful with our hobby.....

 

sLY

 

Yes this situation could have been uglier. I do carry a firearm, but nevertheless it's best to have good verbal skills in these situations than a quick draw. To someone who is that defensive about their territory and doesn't know anything about geocaching, the explanation is going to sound doubly like bull. However, when confronted with threatening speech or body posture, responding with what could be perceived as a return threat or a spin will only escalate the situation. Keep a non-threatening posture, and speak calmly and firmly. Take all insults and don't respond to accusations defensively. Rather, continue explaining your business. Some things inevitably become physical, but by and large if the person encountered isn't planning to use force in the first place it won't get to that point unless provoked to it. Try to figure out what is causing the other person to be aggressive or defensive and work the conversation about alleviating that.

 

After 10 years of working in the prison system, I've learned the best protection you can have is interpersonal skills.

 

I can see your very knowledgeable about this subject. Since I carry my weapon everday it has been very helpful to me. Thank you.

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...A weapon isn't necessarily the answer though. I think its better to stay aware of your surroundings than arm yourself.

 

In the interest of full disclosure I have a wicked knife in my car and a canister of pepper spray on a carabineer in my brief bag. Plus I'm a shotokan dan...

Well, Shotokan Dan, arming yourself gives you options when that awareness of your surroundings tells you you're in trouble, but you either can't run or it isn't an option because of who you're with.

 

The obvious answer here is to cache with someone slower than you are. Hey you don't have to outrun the bear, just at least one other person running from the bear. ;)

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Are you seriously afraid? Even if you did meet someone in the woods they probably wouldn't hurt you... Plus you could just fight back! Or if you fear they have a weapon... Run.

Not necessarily true. A friend placed a cache in the woods along a trail. Of course, cachers, being adventuresome, found a shortcut to the cache, through the woods in the same park, but their way passed a "camp."

 

This was not an ordinary homeless camp, however. The camp was surrounded by trip wires and other warning devices and was being used for drug manufacturing. It would be hard to fight back against a group of people with guns. Running...can't outrun a bullet.

The Flash can outrun a bullet. So can Superman.

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Not necessarily true. A friend placed a cache in the woods along a trail. Of course, cachers, being adventuresome, found a shortcut to the cache, through the woods in the same park, but their way passed a "camp."

 

This was not an ordinary homeless camp, however. The camp was surrounded by trip wires and other warning devices and was being used for drug manufacturing. It would be hard to fight back against a group of people with guns. Running...can't outrun a bullet.

yikes. Sounds like an episode of Lost... and accidentally stumbling upon the 'others'
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Nope no problem with the swamp, no problem with walking into areas with panthers and gators, more with the people.

Find that many areas of this country are not open to people with my racial background, but that is another issue and another thread.

mm, that's too bad. Always makes me sad to hear things like that. I know it happens, yet it is still unfortunate and sad :-(

I know there are places that I won't cache, or times that I won't cache, esp alone, just rather be safe than sorry. The other night I was out with a friend looking for a good place for our first cache, and a small truck just stopped and the guy started watching us. I said 'ok, I'm done looking now', and we left and went on our way. No point in being stupid, he may have just been making sure we weren't up to no good, but *shrug*, I can always look tomorrow!

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Nope no problem with the swamp, no problem with walking into areas with panthers and gators, more with the people.

Find that many areas of this country are not open to people with my racial background, but that is another issue and another thread.

mm, that's too bad. Always makes me sad to hear things like that. I know it happens, yet it is still unfortunate and sad :-(

I know there are places that I won't cache, or times that I won't cache, esp alone, just rather be safe than sorry. The other night I was out with a friend looking for a good place for our first cache, and a small truck just stopped and the guy started watching us. I said 'ok, I'm done looking now', and we left and went on our way. No point in being stupid, he may have just been making sure we weren't up to no good, but *shrug*, I can always look tomorrow!

 

Yes that is too bad. That is one of the reasons for fear in public that makes the least sense. Not from your side but from those idiots who cause the fear.

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I read a newspaper article that said sex offenders are living in forests because it is too much of a hassle to find a neighborhood where they'll be accepted if they are registered as a sex offender. Sheesh, just one more thing I have to watch out for in the woods.

I have been carrying bear spray for a year now. I know not to rely on the spray by allowing it to give me a false sense of safety. I need to use my common sense. I usually keep people at a distance anyway and get away from them before they even know I'm there. I keep my eyes open so I'll spot trouble and get out of there before it spots me. I bought the spray after finding myself in the woods in the middle of nowhere and I asked myself what would I do if I turned around and saw a 600 pound bear standing in front of me. Bear spray seemed better than nothing.

The Op did the best thing by using whatever means he could to get safely out of there. I'm sure he'll listen to his gut next time.

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I tend to listen to my head. My gut only tells me I'm hungry or in need of beer.

 

By the time your 'gut instincts' tell you something, it is usually already too late to react unless you have a plan in your head.

 

I do carry pepper spray and a collapsible metal baton when I cache off the path.

I prefer to use my mind though to get me out of situations I want to leave.

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It comes down to the proper tool for the situation. Undesirable character hassling you? Avoidance and brains every time, at first. 99% of the time you can get out of something this way. Animals and undesirables who lack brain power and reason, MACE!

Just the way I see it. Life is dangerous we deal with it in our own way.

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OP, I don´t know your local laws but where I live entering through a hole in a fence could be considered illegal tresspassing and meeting big angry people would/should be expected, besides the place being off limits for placing of a geocache...

 

On the "weapons" side though, I always carry a multi-tool and if "in nature" I always carry a fixed blade knife, but I consider both tools. I would also very much agree with some of the other posters; if you don´t carry to the bank, shopping etc. why carry when caching?

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