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idiots guide to placing an earthcache

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By smstext
in EarthCaches

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Touchstone

+Touchstone

Posted
Posted

Likewise, the so called "Best 10" list on the homepage can also be a helpful guide in preparing your submissions.

 

Common pitfalls that would be best to avoid and seem to crop up in the Forums from time to time, are dwelling excessively about Biologic/Historical/Environmental subjects, rather than emphasizing Geology and related Earth Sciences of the site you've chosen.

 

There also appears to be a couple of topics which are no longer acceptable for submissions (glacier erratics and river gauges come to mind).

 

And of course the dreaded, "take a picture of yourself and GPS" should be avoided at all cost <_<

 

Best of luck and thanks for considering subitting one :anibad:

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entogeek

+entogeek

Posted
Posted (edited)

Given the change to the guidelines in August of this year, it would be helpful to know what is no longer considered acceptable. For example, I recently submitted a listing that talked about the formation of igneous, sedimentary and metamorphic rocks. The rocks in question on other side of the entrance to a local waterfront trail. Given that they are stacked horizontally, I was able to talk about the layering of sediments over time. Even though I tried to develop logging requirements that would require an understanding of the differences between these three types of rocks, my submission was not accepted for two reasons, 1) you cannot simply ask if something is type A or B or C, and 2) the rocks in question where not from this particular site - they had been brought into the area. When I looked at an EC that I had visited in early August, which was of similar rocks in a playground about an hour's drive away that simply asked if you saw if there were trilobites in the rocks, I wondered how it was published. Turns out it was published less than two weeks before the changes to the guidelines.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't have any problem developing ECs as per the new guidelines - but it would be nice to know what is no longer considered acceptable.

Edited by entogeek
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Touchstone

+Touchstone

Posted
Posted

of course the dreaded, "take a picture of yourself and GPS" should be avoided at all cost B)

Why is this dreaded? Are you being serious?

 

The emoticon at the end of my sentence is the universal symbol for, "not seriously", or "just kidding".

 

In all seriousness though, I fail to see why people cling to such an easily hacked verification method that seems totally unrelated to Geology or Earth Sciences :)

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Knight2000

+Knight2000

Posted
Posted

Thanks for your "constructive" comments, but most of us are already aware of your opinion on the subject :)

;) Wow! You're good. I forgotted* about that! I like the idea about visiting places like that but I think they would be better suited as POI rather than caches. Stop the smileys and few will visit them. It's like virtuals, people want them for the smileys. No smilies= few visits. Earthcaches are simply a solution for getting smilies when a cache can't be placed.

 

Kudos on the great memory! That is pretty cool. B):D [thumbs up] :D

 

*forgotted hehe

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narcissa

+narcissa

Posted
Posted

Thanks for your "constructive" comments, but most of us are already aware of your opinion on the subject B)

:D Wow! You're good. I forgotted* about that! I like the idea about visiting places like that but I think they would be better suited as POI rather than caches. Stop the smileys and few will visit them. It's like virtuals, people want them for the smileys. No smilies= few visits. Earthcaches are simply a solution for getting smilies when a cache can't be placed.

 

Kudos on the great memory! That is pretty cool. :D:P [thumbs up] :D

 

*forgotted hehe

 

If you don't like Earthcaches, don't do them. Earthcaches pose absolutely no threat to other types of geocaches - your antagonism is unnecessary, and your intermittent trolling is simply immature.

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Manville Possum

+Manville Possum

Posted
Posted

Idiots guide to placing an earthcache:

 

Chapter one: DON'T

 

Chapter two: Why? Because earthcaches are waymarks and NOT geocaches.

 

THE END.

No, waymarks are different. You don't get a smily for a waymarks. :P They are both virtuals, but EC's are Earth science related and have to meet the EC guidelines to be published, and the logging requirements have to be emailed to the CO, then you may have to beg to log the find. Waymarks can be exactly the same as an EC, word for word. But no PM to the CO, no EC review process, and no begging. Just log and upload a photo.

I enjoy both. :mad: I'm also bored as heck because it is too cold to geocache, I may waymark one of my own EC's. :huh:

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Manville Possum

+Manville Possum

Posted
Posted

Thanks for your "constructive" comments, but most of us are already aware of your opinion on the subject :huh:

:o Wow! You're good. I forgotted* about that! I like the idea about visiting places like that but I think they would be better suited as POI rather than caches. Stop the smileys and few will visit them. It's like virtuals, people want them for the smileys. No smilies= few visits. Earthcaches are simply a solution for getting smilies when a cache can't be placed.

 

Kudos on the great memory! That is pretty cool. :P:P [thumbs up] :D

 

*forgotted hehe

 

If you don't like Earthcaches, don't do them. Earthcaches pose absolutely no threat to other types of geocaches - your antagonism is unnecessary, and your intermittent trolling is simply immature.

You go girl! Tell that intermittent Troll. OMG that's funny! :mad::laughing::laughing:

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narcissa

+narcissa

Posted
Posted

Thanks for your "constructive" comments, but most of us are already aware of your opinion on the subject :huh:

:o Wow! You're good. I forgotted* about that! I like the idea about visiting places like that but I think they would be better suited as POI rather than caches. Stop the smileys and few will visit them. It's like virtuals, people want them for the smileys. No smilies= few visits. Earthcaches are simply a solution for getting smilies when a cache can't be placed.

 

Kudos on the great memory! That is pretty cool. :P:P [thumbs up] :D

 

*forgotted hehe

 

If you don't like Earthcaches, don't do them. Earthcaches pose absolutely no threat to other types of geocaches - your antagonism is unnecessary, and your intermittent trolling is simply immature.

You go girl! Tell that intermittent Troll. OMG that's funny! :mad::laughing::laughing:

 

Only took you two months to come up with that zinger! *golf clap*

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Manville Possum

+Manville Possum

Posted
Posted

<!--quoteo(post=4563496:date=Dec 20 2010, 02:21 AM:name=Manville Possum Hunters)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Manville Possum Hunters @ Dec 20 2010, 02:21 AM) 4563496[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

<!--quoteo(post=4503345:date=Oct 16 2010, 08:19 PM:name=narcissa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(narcissa @ Oct 16 2010, 08:19 PM) 4503345[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

<!--quoteo(post=4500413:date=Oct 14 2010, 06:46 AM:name=Knight2000)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Knight2000 @ Oct 14 2010, 06:46 AM) 4500413[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

<!--quoteo(post=4500360:date=Oct 14 2010, 08:33 AM:name=Touchstone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Touchstone @ Oct 14 2010, 08:33 AM) 4500360[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

Thanks for your "constructive" comments, but most of us are already aware of <a href="http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?s=&showtopic=256697&view=findpost&p=4432159" target="_blank">your opinion on the subject</a> <img src="http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laughing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":huh:" border="0" alt="laughing.gif" />

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":o" border="0" alt="ohmy.gif" /> Wow! You're good. I forgotted* about that! I like the idea about visiting places like that but I think they would be better suited as POI rather than caches. Stop the smileys and few will visit them. It's like virtuals, people want them for the smileys. No smilies= few visits. Earthcaches are simply a solution for getting smilies when a cache can't be placed.

 

Kudos on the great memory! That is pretty cool. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laughing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="laughing.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /> [thumbs up] <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

 

*forgotted hehe

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

 

If you don't like Earthcaches, don't do them. Earthcaches pose absolutely no threat to other types of geocaches - your antagonism is unnecessary, and your intermittent trolling is simply immature.

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You go girl! Tell that intermittent Troll. OMG that's funny! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laughing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":mad:" border="0" alt="laughing.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laughing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":laughing:" border="0" alt="laughing.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laughing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":laughing:" border="0" alt="laughing.gif" />

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

 

Only took you two months to come up with that zinger! *golf clap*

It first looked like a currant post, guess you done got rid of that Troll? I think it's too cold for caching, I've been working on some waymarks. I have a EC in the works, but I think the road is closed for the winter. I know it is much colder where your EC's are, if roads are closed to EC's in winter months but Trails are still open, what might I include in the listing? Have you ever encountered this?

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narcissa

+narcissa

Posted
Posted

It first looked like a currant post, guess you done got rid of that Troll? I think it's too cold for caching, I've been working on some waymarks. I have a EC in the works, but I think the road is closed for the winter. I know it is much colder where your EC's are, if roads are closed to EC's in winter months but Trails are still open, what might I include in the listing? Have you ever encountered this?

 

Make sure your attributes reflect the seasonal changes as best they can, and mention the conditions in the description. How much snow do you get there? For an Earthcache in my area I would use the snowshoes attribute and/or the cross-country skis attribute if the trails are open in the winter. It's also a good idea to include parking coordinates.

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Manville Possum

+Manville Possum

Posted
Posted

We normally don't have much snow, but in the last two years we have been hit hard by some bad storms that downed trees in our National Forests and closed many roads and trails. The trails are multi-use for horse riders, hikers, and mountain bikers. Seems that the only people up in the mountain this time of year are hunters. Some of the roads are closed in the winter to vehicle traffic, but not horse or foot travel. I guess this should be noted in the cache listing.

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Konnarock Kid & Marge

+Konnarock Kid & Marge

Posted
Posted

We just received our weekly notice from Groundspeak and it has an earthcache in the new caches for our area. It is located on the Navajo Reservation. I thought NO caches are allowed there. Did earthcaches receive an exemption from the Navajo Tribe? Did anyone even check with the Navajos about allowing the cache?

 

John

If it is there.......permission was received. We suggest you visit it or any other EC! They can be fun.

Thanks. :)

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2oldfarts (the rockhounders)

2oldfarts (the rockhounders)

Posted
Posted (edited)

We just received our weekly notice from Groundspeak and it has an earthcache in the new caches for our area. It is located on the Navajo Reservation. I thought NO caches are allowed there. Did earthcaches receive an exemption from the Navajo Tribe? Did anyone even check with the Navajos about allowing the cache?

 

John

If it is there.......permission was received. We suggest you visit it or any other EC! They can be fun.

Thanks. :)

 

The Navajo Tribe does NOT allow caching on their lands, not even virtuals! Someone might wish to verify that permission was actually given by the Tribal Council.

 

Edit to add - This is the cache in question and it was placed by someone from Maryland. Sounds like a vacation cache.

 

John

Edited by 2oldfarts (the rockhounders)
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Konnarock Kid & Marge

+Konnarock Kid & Marge

Posted
Posted (edited)

We just received our weekly notice from Groundspeak and it has an earthcache in the new caches for our area. It is located on the Navajo Reservation. I thought NO caches are allowed there. Did earthcaches receive an exemption from the Navajo Tribe? Did anyone even check with the Navajos about allowing the cache?

 

John

If it is there.......permission was received. We suggest you visit it or any other EC! They can be fun.

Thanks. :)

 

The Navajo Tribe does NOT allow caching on their lands, not even virtuals! Someone might wish to verify that permission was actually given by the Tribal Council.

 

Edit to add - This is the cache in question and it was placed by someone from Maryland. Sounds like a vacation cache.

 

John

If it is all that worrisome just avoid it like you have all other ECs! If you think some sort of major breach in the guideline has occurred, take it up with Groundspeak with an email! No need to drag the cache nor the owner through this public mud!

 

Edited for a spelling error. Yes, I must have spelt it wrong! :huh:

 

P.S. No 2. Good grief, I couldn't resist but I actually looked at the cache. This may present a clue, "This formation is visible from the parking lot of an area franchise hotel as you look east." If it is not within the right-of-way, it's in the entrance of the nationally known motel! I am only guessing, but they (the motel) must have gotten permission from someone? If you think not, maybe you want to contact the tribal counsel.

Edited by Konnarock Kid & Marge
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2oldfarts (the rockhounders)

2oldfarts (the rockhounders)

Posted
Posted (edited)

So earthcaches can be placed where other caches are prohibited? Interesting, mention a problem and the response is "we don't care, tell GC".

 

This cache goes on the ignore list and I hope others will use extreme caution when doing it since the Tribal police WILL issue tickets and fines for caching on their land. Like it or not this cache can cost you fair amount of cash if you are caught doing it.

 

No mud here, just the simple truth about caching in this area!

 

John

Edited by 2oldfarts (the rockhounders)
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geoawareCA

+geoawareCA

Posted
Posted

We just received our weekly notice from Groundspeak and it has an earthcache in the new caches for our area. It is located on the Navajo Reservation. I thought NO caches are allowed there. Did earthcaches receive an exemption from the Navajo Tribe? Did anyone even check with the Navajos about allowing the cache?

 

John

 

The posted coordinates for that EarthCache are the parking lot for a hotel. There is no need to leave the parking lot to be able to answer the questions, therefore permission from the Navajo Tribe may not be necessary in this case. Anyone is allowed to go to the hotel. Perhaps the EarthCache should have included a warning that visitors are not to wander at will in this area, but otherwise it appears to meet the guidelines.

 

geoawareCA

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2oldfarts (the rockhounders)

2oldfarts (the rockhounders)

Posted
Posted

We just received our weekly notice from Groundspeak and it has an earthcache in the new caches for our area. It is located on the Navajo Reservation. I thought NO caches are allowed there. Did earthcaches receive an exemption from the Navajo Tribe? Did anyone even check with the Navajos about allowing the cache?

 

John

 

The posted coordinates for that EarthCache are the parking lot for a hotel. There is no need to leave the parking lot to be able to answer the questions, therefore permission from the Navajo Tribe may not be necessary in this case. Anyone is allowed to go to the hotel. Perhaps the EarthCache should have included a warning that visitors are not to wander at will in this area, but otherwise it appears to meet the guidelines.

 

geoawareCA

 

Tribal law makes no distinction about business property that is on the Reservation and that land that is not in a town. It is all Reservation. If you feel this is an appropriate cache and those seeking it will not be fined, then by all means let it stand. There is a reason that Groundspeak prohibits caches on Reservations, and perhaps a discussion with their reviewers might shed a little more light on their reason for not approving such caches.

 

Your choice,

 

John

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Konnarock Kid & Marge

+Konnarock Kid & Marge

Posted
Posted

So earthcaches can be placed where other caches are prohibited? Interesting, mention a problem and the response is "we don't care, tell GC".

 

This cache goes on the ignore list and I hope others will use extreme caution when doing it since the Tribal police WILL issue tickets and fines for caching on their land. Like it or not this cache can cost you fair amount of cash if you are caught doing it.

 

No mud here, just the simple truth about caching in this area!

 

John

Just curious, what is your motivation here?

Having not visited or developed any earthcaches tells us one thing, that ignore list that you referred to must be long and well populated with earthcaches.

Do you really think someone pausing to view and perhaps photograph a distant landmark from a motel parking lot will send them to jail or result in a large fine? Maybe the CO needs to add instructions on how to avoid the tribal police and pretend to just be taking touristy kind of pictures and never admit to being a geocacher. Further, how do you expect a reviewer to know the nuances of tribal law especially when the cache is being viewed from a parking lot. Good grief! Perhaps the guidelines need further change!

I am not so versed in tribal law as you seem to be, but I am sure the granting of a license to operate said motel allows patrons of the motel to look around and take a photo if desired. :lol:

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2oldfarts (the rockhounders)

2oldfarts (the rockhounders)

Posted
Posted

Just curious, what is your motivation here?

Having not visited or developed any earthcaches tells us one thing, that ignore list that you referred to must be long and well populated with earthcaches.

Do you really think someone pausing to view and perhaps photograph a distant landmark from a motel parking lot will send them to jail or result in a large fine? Maybe the CO needs to add instructions on how to avoid the tribal police and pretend to just be taking touristy kind of pictures and never admit to being a geocacher. Further, how do you expect a reviewer to know the nuances of tribal law especially when the cache is being viewed from a parking lot. Good grief! Perhaps the guidelines need further change!

I am not so versed in tribal law as you seem to be, but I am sure the granting of a license to operate said motel allows patrons of the motel to look around and take a photo if desired. :lol:

 

My motivation is quite simple. I received the weekly notice from GC and the very 1st cache on the list is located on the Navajo Reservation. Caching is not allowed on the Reservation, not a regular cache, not a virtual cache, not a Terracache, not a Navicache, not an Opencache, but evidently earthcaches are. At least according to this forum.

 

What other laws might we disregard in the name of caching and not question whether the seeker may have his wallet lightened.

 

I believe if you read the cache description it requires the seeker to drive a mile in either of 2 different directions to get more information and pictures. Best not be stopping beside the highway or you may have a visit from a friendly officer questioning you about your situation.

 

I have only lived here for 30+ years so what would I know about this area. Perhaps someone from Maryland can fill me in on how to legally cache on the Reservation.

 

If earthcaches allow this one to stand, then others are going to push the envelope until someone does have a run-in with the law.

 

Feel free to disregard my opinions and do as you wish, just remember if you do get caught you will go to Tribal Court and they have different rules that they follow.

 

Enjoy this earthcache.

 

Oh, I'm a rockhounder not an earthcacher.

 

John

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Manville Possum

+Manville Possum

Posted
Posted

We cache and waymark on the Rez in Cherokee, North Carolina. I have a Trail of Tears National Historic Trail stamp that I got from inside the Cherokee Museum, but all Tribal Laws differ.

 

Why not just contact the Principle Chief of the Navaho or the Tribal Council and ask about this Earthcache in question. I would be interested in what you can find out. Until then, I stand with the GSA reviewer.

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narcissa

+narcissa

Posted
Posted

My motivation is quite simple. I received the weekly notice from GC and the very 1st cache on the list is located on the Navajo Reservation. Caching is not allowed on the Reservation, not a regular cache, not a virtual cache, not a Terracache, not a Navicache, not an Opencache, but evidently earthcaches are. At least according to this forum.

 

We don't know whether or not the cache owner received permission. What we do know is that Earthcache owners - unlike any other kind of cache owner - are *required* to provide contact information to prove that permission for the cache was granted by the appropriate authority. In this situation, I see two possible scenarios: either permission was granted, or the Earthcache reviewer was somehow convinced that permission was not necessary.

 

The submission guidelines for Earthcaches are available at Earthcache.org. They do differ substantially from the guidelines for other cache types.

 

If you have reason to believe that the Earthcache was published in error - which may well be the case - the appropriate course of action is to write a Needs Archived log detailing your concerns. The reviewer will look into the issue and take action if necessary.

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geoawareCA

+geoawareCA

Posted
Posted (edited)

I believe the rockhounders have a valid concern and there is no need to disrespect them in this forum just for stating that concern. As geoaware is currently on vacation, I will see what I can find out about this area. In my opinion, permission would not be required as the hotel parking lot and roadside stops are within public right-of-ways, but I am certainly no expert on tribal laws. If the EarthCache does pose a problem for the Tribal Counsel, then it will be archived.

 

Edit to add:

For future reference, narcissa is correct - the best course of action in a case such as this would be to post a "Needs Archive" log on the cache page stating your concerns. These would be addressed by Gary (geoaware). If you do not wish to risk annoying the cache owner, by posting a Needs Archive log, you could simply contact the Reviewer that published the listing and let them know what you believe the issues are.

Edited by geoawareCA
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Touchstone

+Touchstone

Posted
Posted

My apologies to rockhounder if any disrespect was taken from my comments, and I'm sure that KK feels the same way. rockhounder certainly asked a valid question, and I will certainly defend his right to ignore the many excellent posts that offered sage advice on how to properly report the problem.

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geodarts

+geodarts

Posted
Posted (edited)

I believe the rockhounders have a valid concern and there is no need to disrespect them in this forum just for stating that concern. As geoaware is currently on vacation, I will see what I can find out about this area. In my opinion, permission would not be required as the hotel parking lot and roadside stops are within public right-of-ways, but I am certainly no expert on tribal laws. If the EarthCache does pose a problem for the Tribal Counsel, then it will be archived.

 

I agree that this is an interesting issue. There is at least one other earthcache on Navajo land, some virtuals, and multis that presumably do not have the actual container on tribal land. One of the virtuals contains this warning in regard to the Navajos:

 

"Their stance on Geocaching is basically our lands are sovereign and if you put a cache on them we will confiscate your GPS, Car, and charge you with trespassing. They made it pretty clear that they do not and will not allow cache placements on their lands!!! The reservation is a sovereign nation AND private property. Permits are required to enter the reservation. Remember that the land around this Monument is reservation."

 

Of course, that cache found a distinction between traditional caching and virtuals. The Navajo do not impose as many restrictions on private photography and tourism as some other tribes, but apart from anything else, my experience has always been that there is a certain etiquette that should be followed.

 

Years ago, I invited Dennis Banks to my community for a benefit to raise supplies for Native survival camps in certain areas. We were politely told by the local elders that we should first seek their permission -- and over the years we always did that when working on any issue affecting Native people and Native land. There was no legal requirement, but there was an issue of etiquette and respect.

 

If an earthcache focuses on reservation land that is sacred to Native People, should it have permission even if it is on a public right of way? Does the answer change if the land is not particularly sacred? Like everything else, especially in dealing with Native issues, the answer might depend on who you talk to. Certainly, I would not presume to answer it one way or the other.

 

I hope that this issue can be clarified with at least the Tribal Council -- and it would be interesting to know here.

Edited by mulvaney
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Konnarock Kid & Marge

+Konnarock Kid & Marge

Posted
Posted

I believe the rockhounders have a valid concern and there is no need to disrespect them in this forum just for stating that concern. As geoaware is currently on vacation, I will see what I can find out about this area. In my opinion, permission would not be required as the hotel parking lot and roadside stops are within public right-of-ways, but I am certainly no expert on tribal laws. If the EarthCache does pose a problem for the Tribal Counsel, then it will be archived.

 

Edit to add:

For future reference, narcissa is correct - the best course of action in a case such as this would be to post a "Needs Archive" log on the cache page stating your concerns. These would be addressed by Gary (geoaware). If you do not wish to risk annoying the cache owner, by posting a Needs Archive log, you could simply contact the Reviewer that published the listing and let them know what you believe the issues are.

My deepest apology to the rockhounders also!

Disrespect was not intended, but don't for get who said, "Feel free to disregard my opinions and do as you wish."

Sorry again. :)

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GeoawareGSA1

+GeoawareGSA1

Posted
Posted

Sorry to butt in here, but I wanted to let all interested parties know that GSA, the EarthCache review team, and Groundspeak are taking a look at the issues involved with EarthCaches on Navajo land, and other tribal lands. The information posted here is much appreciated, as it will help guide our research a bit.

 

As mulvaney said, this IS a very interesting issue, and we hope to provide some guidance in the near future.

 

Thanks for your patience with this sensitive matter.

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