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BeccaDay

How strict are you?

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It may not be fair, but it's ultimately expected by Groundspeak. Isn't that part of the responsibility one assumes when publishing an earthcache?

Deleting a found log immediately if no e-mail's been received would prevents invalid found logs, so it seems to address the requirement you're quoting quite nicely. I don't see anything in there that requires a CO to go over and above the call of duty in order to avoid deleting found logs which might later be proved to be valid. What am I missing?

 

edit to add: forgot to answer the second part of your question. I don't have an exact timeline, nor do I suspect Groundspeak does. It probably boils down to what's reasonable under the circumstances. Someone has regular access to a computer and is logging other caches? A day or two should be reasonable. Someone's on vacation and has sporadic access to email? A week or so. Someone logs my cache and then disappears into darkest Africa for a yearlong safari? That one's a little tricky, I'll wait until it comes up.

You speak as if finds must always be logged immediately, so the only question is how long it takes for someone to follow up with a much delayed e-mail. Even in the era of immediately logging finds via a cellphone, I see no major burden for requiring someone to delay logging their find of an EarthCache until they're in a position to send in the e-mail, so I see no justification for requiring any time differential whatsoever.

 

Although I also note that you've added yet another burden to the CO of being able to intuit what situation the seeker is in and, hence, how long to expect the e-mail to be delayed.

 

Heaven knows I'm grateful that you're prepared to be that gracious, I'm just having trouble thinking that kind of allowance should be required of all EarthCache COs.

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I also note that you've added yet another burden to the CO of being able to intuit what situation the seeker is in and, hence, how long to expect the e-mail to be delayed.

 

I call it the benefit of a doubt. It's not exactly the burden of Sisyphus.

 

Let's take a look at the GSA guidelines.

 

People do not need to wait for permission to log your EarthCache. Requiring someone to wait is not supported by the EarthCache guidelines. People should send their logging task answers to you, then log your EarthCache. When you review their logging task answers, if there is a problem, you should contact them to resolve it. If there is no problem, then their log simply stands.

 

I agree with that statement -- cachers should email before logging. But "should" is not the same as "must." And deleting logs without waiting a reasonable time for an email seems like a passive way of requiring prior approval before allowing logs.

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I agree with that statement -- cachers should email before logging. But "should" is not the same as "must."

I read it as "should, otherwise your valid find log might get deleted," i.e., advice to help a cacher avoid having to apologize and relog the find once the information has been provided.

 

Anyway, I guess we agree that e-mail should be sent first, and we agree that COs should allow some leeway. Our only disagreement is how to assign blame if the find log is deleted when it turns out that it will eventually be validated. Me, I'm still thinking the answer is that if you log it before you've sent the e-mail, you'll be getting what you deserve if the log is deleted before the info arrives, and I don't see any particular length to the delay or mitigating circumstances that should change that.

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But ANYONE who deletes a find because I didn't send my email 30 seconds after my Found It is just a jerk, pure and simple.

I always send my e-mail before logging the find so that that can't happen. As it happens, that also keeps me honest. If I only have time to post logs and don't have time to compose the e-mail right away, I just live with the fact that that means I'll be logging that cache out of order (although, naturally, I always put the correct date on it).

 

I've come up with a solution that keeps the logs in order if I can't send the email tight away. I originally post a note saying that I was there and then change it to a Found after I've sent the email. If pictures are required, they will always be a day or more late, because I can't send the pictures until after I get home from a trip.

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And you're absolutely sure it was a cut and paste thing?

Yup, the exact same wording as I use, including an awkward UK English/US English slip up.

 

I've sent an email telling them the purpose of the logging tasks is the visitor demonstrates learning has occurred and by copying my answers they've not demonstrated that...now wait and see what happens.

 

Mr. Terratin

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But ANYONE who deletes a find because I didn't send my email 30 seconds after my Found It is just a jerk, pure and simple.

I always send my e-mail before logging the find so that that can't happen. As it happens, that also keeps me honest. If I only have time to post logs and don't have time to compose the e-mail right away, I just live with the fact that that means I'll be logging that cache out of order (although, naturally, I always put the correct date on it).

 

I've come up with a solution that keeps the logs in order if I can't send the email tight away. I originally post a note saying that I was there and then change it to a Found after I've sent the email. If pictures are required, they will always be a day or more late, because I can't send the pictures until after I get home from a trip.

Don't worry, pictures can't be required anymore. ;)

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I am supporting an adult with autism with geocaching. This is rapidly becoming a special interest. On a recent trip to their home land we went to a small island which was covered with a dozen geocaches...so of course we had to find each one. In fact we struggled with one (finding the location but not the cache) but found the rest. However because of the inherrent communication difficulties we are struggling to answer an earthcache question specifically for the CO, instead monologuing all over the place. I've told the CO that this is normal for this autistic adult, but he is not respecting this, instead threatening to disregard all the correct answers in favour of the last too "vague" answer. This has resulted in challenging behaviour plus plus. Do you have any suggestions as to how to keep the cache logged?

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I don't think of the logging requirements as an exam, so as long as someone makes a good faith effort and their answers demonstrated that they were at the location, it is enough for me. I try to ask questions that require observations or information obtained at the site, but if people go there and answer something differently that still indicates they were there and put some thought into the earthcache, then the log will stand.

 

As I mentioned on another thread, I recently visited an earthcache where the owner required visitors to take elevation data with their gpsr but only accepts numbers within 25 feet of the readings he took with his unit. Even if his readings were "accurate" it raised some issues because my gpsr gave me different figures, units vary a great deal, and the margin of error even for the unit he used is greater than 25 feet. So you could meet the logging requirement - using your gpsr to record the elevation - and still face a log deletion. That seemed particularly rigid, although I understand the owner's concern over armchair logging.

 

I have only deleted one log, at a National Park where the person indicated that he could not do the cache because the trail did not allow dogs. I have asked for clarification, or at least some attempt to answer the questions, on a couple of other occasions.

 

+1.

 

When Earthcaches first came out we loved the idea and learning at the sites but ambiguous questions whose answers could not be found at the site along with threatening CO tones regarding logs almost made us quit looking for them. It seems things have gotten better the last few years and we'll go out of our way to find earthcaches.

Re late logging, we travel a lot and it may be days or weeks before we can send the information required.....we wait to log the find until we can send the information.

As an earthcache owner I've had no problems.....a few incorrect answers and once or twice where one logged for the group. I'm not inclined to be draconian about these issues ( I want it to be fun and I know what I don't like in an earthcache )but I would have no problem deleting a log if I knew a visit had not been made.

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My nephew loves EarthCaches and has hidden one. It is simple, but educational and fun.

Two cachers came through the area and logged finds. They seem just to have walked by, if that. "An EarthCache! Let's log a find!" They did not bring the required equipment. They did not answer most of the questions. I'm not sure they even read that page! After a request, they still did not answer the questions! It is with sadness that the logs have been archived/deleted. They seem to have made no attempt to understand the geological feature. Very sad.

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I ask for individual responses from every account logging the cache, and I'm a stickler about that.

Do you ask for minors to send in their answers as well? I make sure my kids learn their geology from the Earthcache, but I will send in their answers.

 

Edit : rats, another thread woken up from the dead.

Edited by Chrysalides

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I allow a person to submit answers for the group, but he needs to tell me the names of the people they are submitting them for. I have had people say... "I was with X, he submitted the answers for me" X was on a trip with his wife, not a group of cachers.

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I ask for individual responses from every account logging the cache, and I'm a stickler about that.

Do you ask for minors to send in their answers as well? I make sure my kids learn their geology from the Earthcache, but I will send in their answers.

 

Edit : rats, another thread woken up from the dead.

 

What minors? Children under 13 are not allowed to have an account. Children over 13 can certainly send in reasonably coherent responses.

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I ask for individual responses from every account logging the cache, and I'm a stickler about that.

Do you ask for minors to send in their answers as well? I make sure my kids learn their geology from the Earthcache, but I will send in their answers.

 

Edit : rats, another thread woken up from the dead.

 

What minors? Children under 13 are not allowed to have an account. Children over 13 can certainly send in reasonably coherent responses.

When they created their accounts, there isn't any restriction on age. I'm not sure when that was added - was it even there in 2010? That minors have accounts is not what is under discussion here. Can you answer the original question?

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I have a thing for rocks and geology fascinates me, therefore, I enjoy the idea of Earthcaches. I've only done two though... Reading over this topic, several thoughts came to mind:

 

1. There has been much discussion over the e-mailing of answers and logging of finds on the cachers part, put not much mention of a timely response from the CO. For both my EC finds, I've sent my answers and logged by find almost simultaneously (it may have taken a few seconds to navigate from browser window 1 open to GC.com and window 2 with my open e-mail). Thankfully, my fears that the CO won't respond in a timely manner haven't come to light. Both responded within 24 hours. But..., what if they hadn't?

 

With Int'l Earthcache Day just passed, we went to an EC that we really wanted to visit anyway. Couldn't make it til later in the day and as I refuse to own a cell/smart phone, I don't log or e-mail from the field. I have to wait until evening when I get home. Now, if I had waited to log the find as per the CO's requirements and no timely response from the CO came, no souvenir... Yeah, yeah, I know, it's NOT supposed to be about the numbers or souvenirs. I know the argument. Point is, some CO's DON't monitor their e-mails and respond timely.

 

2. Requirements asking for measurements and the use of GPS technology to learn a geological lesson make perfect sense to me. That's kinda what the point of an EC is. If we can use the technology we already have in hand instead of hauling out a transit and other survey equipment, GREAT! I'm all for it.

 

3. I do find it absurd that an EC CO would REQUIRE spot on measurements using a GPSr. My most recent EC find had us finding the average height DIFFERENCE between the bottom and top of a sand dune. That seems more reasonable and acceptable. Two other cachers there at the same time as me came up with the same averages as I did. All using different technology. This makes more sense.

 

4. I will continue to send my answers via e-mail and log my find simultaneously on future EC finds. If my answers are unacceptable, I'll be okay with my log being deleted or the CO asking more of me. I know I put thought and effort into my finds and won't have it denied simply because a CO wants to take their time being anal about responding to answers.

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I will continue to send my answers via e-mail and log my find simultaneously on future EC finds.

 

That's what Earthcache guidelines say, so you have nothing to worry about.

 

People do not need to wait for permission to log your EarthCache. Requiring someone to wait is not supported by the EarthCache guidelines. People should send their logging task answers to you, then log your EarthCache.

 

http://earthcache.org/ - look under FAQ.

 

I think there were only 3 EC owners who have responded to my answers, and one of them offered an alternate solution and additional info to one of my answers.

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I try to respond to every single email on my ECs, but I know that a few have slipped through the cracks. Hardly any EC owners email me back when I log their caches. Now a few specifically write that they will only respond if the info is incorrect--but still, I hardly ever get an email in response.

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I ask for individual responses from every account logging the cache, and I'm a stickler about that.

Do you ask for minors to send in their answers as well? I make sure my kids learn their geology from the Earthcache, but I will send in their answers.

 

Edit : rats, another thread woken up from the dead.

 

What minors? Children under 13 are not allowed to have an account. Children over 13 can certainly send in reasonably coherent responses.

When they created their accounts, there isn't any restriction on age. I'm not sure when that was added - was it even there in 2010? That minors have accounts is not what is under discussion here. Can you answer the original question?

 

The original question isn't relevant since accounts for minors are in violation of the terms of service.

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I consider myself "not strict" on the validation of the answers.

I allow people to make a found it or a write not the same day they sent their answers and before my validation.

By doing this, I can see if there is a photo or not, then review the answers and let or remove the found it.

Furthermore, I ask 4 questions, 2 in the description or on the internet, 2 on site.

Then, I ask every single cacher to send me their answers. I know it is a little "stupid" but I want people to make an effort.

 

I/ If there is a photo I allow :

- 1 mistake in the description

- 1 mistake on site

 

I/ If there is no photo I allow :

- 1 mistake in the description

 

The goal is to make people look at the rocks and make them learn something.

If they did not read the description or have been on site just for being on site, it is not the purpose of EarthCaches.

This is my vision of EarthCaches, not reserved to geologist, but not given for people who don't want to learn :)

Edited by Infra-Blue

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