Selling Co-ordinates

[+philmir]

A geocaching member has posted a note under his latest cache that Geocaching.com is selling co-ordinates in bulk to the general public , muggles as he put it, therefore he is making all his caches Premium Members only.

 

The note appears under Binary Cache GC2DA42 by Draughck. Is it true that Geocaching.com is selling co-ordinates in bulk to anyone ?

 

If it is not true perhaps the reviewer Mtn Man could post a reviewers note regarding such under that cache log site.

 

Anxiously awaiting a reply.

Edited September 17, 2010 by philmir

[Mr.Yuck]

A geocaching member has posted a note under his latest cache that Geocaching.com is selling co-ordinates in bulk to the general public , muggles as he put it, therefore he is making all his caches Premium Members only.

 

The note appears under Binary Cache GC2DA42 by Draughck. Is it true that Geocaching.com is selling co-ordinates in bulk to anyone ?

 

If it is not true perhaps the reviewer Mtn Man could post a reviewers note regarding such under that cache log site.

 

Anxiously awaiting a reply.

 

Well, someone started a thread recently who didn't like the Geomate Jr. GPS units pre-loaded with cache coordinates. Maybe he's got the same general idea. Only speculation, here.

 

Just don't tell this guy anyone can get coordinates for Premium Member only caches with the I phone app, or with an SMS text message inquiry.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Mr.Yuck

[+GeoGeeBee]

Is the cache owner the same as the OP in this thread?

 

Preloaded GPS's

[Mr.Yuck]

Is the cache owner the same as the OP in this thread?

 

Preloaded GPS's

 

No this is a cache owner of a cache in British Columbia, who said caching friends in Edmonton, Alberta warned him about the alleged bulk selling of coordinates.

[knowschad]

I don't know if its the same person that started that thread or not, but I sure suspect the note was referring to the Geomate, Jr. device.

[+DragonsWest]

Selling them? Well, for preloaded GPSrs, I can see that.

 

For other devious purposes? The CIA? The Cagey Bee?

 

Hmm.

 

Edited September 17, 2010 by DragonsWest

[knowschad]

Selling them? Well, for preloaded GPSrs, I can see that.

 

For other devious purposes? The CIA? The Cagey Bee?

 

Hmm.

 

I am going to go out later and take some coordinates. I'm hoping that I can get rid of some via craigslist, and maybe move the rest on eBay. There are a lot of coordinates out there, for sure. You just move a foot or two in another direction, and !BINGO! there's another one!

[+dfx]

http://www.geocaching.com/about/termsofuse.aspx

 

All comments, articles, tutorials, screenshots, pictures, graphics, tools, downloads, and all other materials submitted to Groundspeak in connection with the Site or available through the Site (collectively, "Submissions") remain the property and copyright of the original author. If You submit Submissions to Groundspeak, You must adhere to any applicable submission guidelines that may be posted from time to time on the Site. By submitting any Submission to Groundspeak, You grant Groundspeak a worldwide, non-exclusive, transferable, perpetual, irrevocable, fully-paid royalty-free license and right to use, reproduce, distribute, import, broadcast, transmit, modify and create derivative works of, license, offer to sell, and sell, rent, lease or lend copies of, publicly display and publicly perform that Submission for any purpose and without restriction or obligation to You.

 

if you don't want that, don't create listings here.

[+sbell111]

I'm a member of the general public and GC.com happily sells me coordinates for a mere $30 per year.

[+lachupa]

I must be thick today, because I don't get it.

 

The thing about GC selling coordinates may make sense in the preloaded GPSr context but if its a puzzle cache, without solving it, wouldn't these muggles in question only be able to see the coordinates listed and not the answer?

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I'm a member of the general public and GC.com happily sells me coordinates for a mere $30 per year.

 

And that's a pretty good deal.

 

I was looking for some waypoints to download for Beijing, hoping to get coordinates for all the subway stops, and found someone that had a large collection of waypoints which I could buy for $40.

[MisterEFQ]

I noticed this when I was at Costco the other day. Right next to the 55 gallon jar of mayonaise was a huge box of geocache coordinates.

[+42at42]

I noticed this when I was at Costco the other day. Right next to the 55 gallon jar of mayonaise was a huge box of geocache coordinates.

 

Wait until next week, there is a coupon buy one, get one for the same price.

[+Ike 13]

Was he not aware anyone with an email address could get his coordinates for free? Why is 'selling' them as part of the Geomate Jr different/worse?

[+nimrodblack]

I just bought a Garmin GPS 62st and I have to tell you....

 

Without putting in my geocaching.com information I can download 5 non-premium cache coordinates a day.

 

So i will never list anything other then premium when I start placing caches.

[+GeoGeeBee]

I just bought a Garmin GPS 62st and I have to tell you....

 

Without putting in my geocaching.com information I can download 5 non-premium cache coordinates a day.

 

So i will never list anything other then premium when I start placing caches.

 

Good idea, because EVERYONE who buys a Garmin GPS 62st is just dying to go steal a bunch of containers filled with broken McToys and wet paper.

</sarcasm>

[Mr.Yuck]

I just bought a Garmin GPS 62st and I have to tell you....

 

Without putting in my geocaching.com information I can download 5 non-premium cache coordinates a day.

 

So i will never list anything other then premium when I start placing caches.

 

That's a limited time trial offer! (probably not). Hey, I just noticed two people in this thread have Narcissa quotes in their signature, so I figured I'd get in on that one.

[GOF and Bacall]

Edited September 17, 2010 by GOF & Bacall

[+Ecylram]

Two thoughts...

 

First, duh. That's what a premium membership contains. It's a little ironic to protest "selling" cache locations by placing premium caches that can only be found by among a purchase.

 

As for devices having preloaded coordinates: the difference is just from what storage device its being retrieved. Most people pull the coordinates from a set of hard drives in some data center somewhere. Those coordinates are constantly being updated. The purchasers of the devices are pulling an older version of the data from a memory chip on the device. So what?

 

The real complaint, if we are going to be honest, is the sport becoming mainstream which brings with it more of the less nerdy and less enthusiastic participants. The barriers to participating in Geocaching are lowering as the tools become more useful and user friendly.

[knowschad]

[+GeoGeeBee]

 

That's an interesting set of 'tudes. Right smack in the middle of the Caribou Highway. (How odd is it that Google actually has street view available way out there?)

 

How much do you want for 'em?

[+Castle Mischief]

My, don't we play the grand piano.

[+Srondar & Cryss]

I don't understand the issue, anyone can get coodinates from Geocaching.com unless it's

a PMO. There's even an add-on for Firefox that will get the data from the pages and create

a .gpx file. If you make them all PMO's many people will go away and you will cripple the sport.

Garmin and Magellen will be unhappy. I don't like PMO's, they're unfair.

I'm only a PM so I can muggle the PMO's .

[+mtn-man]

If it is not true perhaps the reviewer Mtn Man could post a reviewers note regarding such under that cache log site.

 

Anxiously awaiting a reply.

Hey philmir. Hope you are well. I am hesitant to post a note on the cache page since we don't like them turning into a forum, so to speak. I may write them later via email though. The pre-loaded GPS has been available since May of last year. As technology spreads, so does geocaching. Now we have iPhone and Android apps. It is very easy for people to get into the game, pre-loaded GPS or not. To me, more people having fun is a good thing. Some of them will place caches for you, the cache owner in question and for me to find. More fun. I will see if I can get that across to them via email.

[+scaramedic]

 

[Mr.Yuck]

If it is not true perhaps the reviewer Mtn Man could post a reviewers note regarding such under that cache log site.

 

Anxiously awaiting a reply.

Hey philmir. Hope you are well. I am hesitant to post a note on the cache page since we don't like them turning into a forum, so to speak. I may write them later via email though. The pre-loaded GPS has been available since May of last year. As technology spreads, so does geocaching. Now we have iPhone and Android apps. It is very easy for people to get into the game, pre-loaded GPS or not. To me, more people having fun is a good thing. Some of them will place caches for you, the cache owner in question and for me to find. More fun. I will see if I can get that across to them via email.

 

Well, yeah. Ashnikes hid caches for us to find too, and look what happened there.

 

If you are the reviewer who published the cache, and this was brought to your attention, I think an email to the owner would be a good idea.

[knowschad]

 

That's an interesting set of 'tudes. Right smack in the middle of the Caribou Highway. (How odd is it that Google actually has street view available way out there?)

 

How much do you want for 'em?

 

(Check the OP's puzzle cache coords)

Actually, I was hoping to pawn them.

[+philmir]

WHOA , NELLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Before this gets way out of hand ! The question was simple enough. The answer was obvious , but reassurance was good. The cacher probably misunderstood about preloaded GPS s !

 

As to Mtn Man , I never expected a stern note ; just a reminder to the cacher to be sure of his facts before posting a note like that for all to read. Think back a few years to the Febreeze scandal that started with false postings on the internet. It cost the company millions to sort out the B.S. There are people who still believe today that Febreeze will kill their pets !

 

The net is a great tool for gathering information. It is equally as dangerous for spreading misinformation.

 

To have more cachers is a good thing AS LONG AS THEY ABIDE BY THE RULES OF THE GAME ! When they start interpreting things for their own benefit or to suit themselves then the trouble begins.

 

There should be somekind of Caching 101 that people can take to prevent misunderstandings like this one.

 

Cache on !

[knowschad]

Some of us are just having fun with the idea suggested by the subject of the post, and not actually with what you are referring to (which was discussed to death back when the Geomate, Jr. was first introduced). Often, once a subject has been answered with a few serious answers, the fun begins. Its par for the course around here, hope you don't take offense!

[+brslk]

Is the cache owner the same as the OP in this thread?

 

Preloaded GPS's

 

No this is a cache owner of a cache in British Columbia, who said caching friends in Edmonton, Alberta warned him about the alleged bulk selling of coordinates.

 

Wasn't me...

[+philmir]

Thank goodness ! I'm glad that people understand the situation. The more cachers the better. Each of us enters into geocaching with our own abilities to learn the game and skills we learned elsewhere. The lerarning curve can be steeper for some than others. Tolerance is the name of the game along with geocaching.

 

The cacher in question just didn't do his homework before printing his comment. All of us have jumped to conclusions at one time or another only to find out later we were wrong. That's called being human and making mistakes. The main thing here is to learn from our experiences. In this case, I believe that the cacher in question entered the game long after discussions about new GPS innovations. I'm sure that he is in the same boat as I am. Older and trying to catch up to an ever increasingly technical ' cyber world '.

 

Things move very fast and for the older citizens like myself it's a challenge to keep pace. We didn't grow up with computers , but have made the effort to learn the ropes much later in our years.

 

Give us a little slack ! We all need to be a little more tolerant of each other or the world will go to heck in a hand basket pretty quick.

 

I hold no malice towards the cacher that posted the errant comment. I'm just glad that he could get the real scoop before unknowingly spreading a rumour any further. I don't think his intent was to do harm. He just didn't ask the right people the right questions and took a rumour that started with his friends as truth.

 

Cache on !

[+scaramedic]

What confuses me is he seems to be upset with Groundspeak for 'selling' coordinates in bulk to people. Then he turns around and makes his caches premiums. Thereby causing people to pay GS $30 to see his cache.

[+Kyle98632]

What confuses me is he seems to be upset with Groundspeak for 'selling' coordinates in bulk to people. Then he turns around and makes his caches premiums. Thereby causing people to pay GS $30 to see his cache.

 

How true lol! Apperently the cacher who was confused just cant win.

[+pmolan]

Edited September 18, 2010 by pmolan

[+power69]

I just bought a Garmin GPS 62st and I have to tell you....

 

Without putting in my geocaching.com information I can download 5 non-premium cache coordinates a day.

 

So i will never list anything other then premium when I start placing caches.

 

Good idea, because EVERYONE who buys a Garmin GPS 62st is just dying to go steal a bunch of containers filled with broken McToys and wet paper.

</sarcasm>

they could corner the market on 35mm film cannisters!

[+power69]

these are preloaded with coords to finals of puzzles? where do i buy?

[Luckless]

Oh, gee, you're talking about geomate and phone apps. Here I thought maybe there was a way I could make some extra money on ebay selling coordinates for hiding places for caches that I've all ready mapped out. All the purchaser would have to do is place the cache, which I could also provide for a small fee.

[+Scubasonic]

Oh, gee, you're talking about geomate and phone apps. Here I thought maybe there was a way I could make some extra money on ebay selling coordinates for hiding places for caches that I've all ready mapped out. All the purchaser would have to do is place the cache, which I could also provide for a small fee.

 

Well that would sure make my FTF hunts a lot easier that's for sure..... especially if I could get the coords well about an hour before publication LOL

 

Scubasonic

[+TerraViators]

I believe GC sold them to Kellogs to use in a future breakfast cereal, Cache Loops. A hipper Toucan Sam is wearing a GPSr exclaiming, "Follow your nose, it always knows."

[+Viajero Perdido]

Geez you guys can overreact. Here's how I see it.

 

Until last year, cache coordinates were available to any and all "members", meaning anyone who visited the website and signed up for a free account. In doing this, new members had at least the opportunity to read a little about what geocaching is, and how it works. Trading, stealth, maintenance, whatever. Not required, but at least they had the opportunity to learn.

 

Then without warning, toy GPSs appeared on the market, pre-loaded with the coords to hundreds of thousands of caches. No requirement to visit the website; just go out and find stuff. Groundspeak had just created a third class of user; we have premium members, members, and now also the public (who we usually call muggles) as users of the coordinate data.

 

Data. Making some wild guesses, if Groundspeak gets $5 per unit from the GPS manufacturer for 500,000 sets of coordinates (what, you think they'd give it away?), that would mean Groundspeak just sold the location of your cache, which you might've put some pride and effort into, for $0.00001. Don't you feel cheapened?

 

Since Groundspeak didn't add a new "members only" setting - in addition to the existing "premium members only" setting - the only way to keep your caches available to members only is... to mark them for premium members only.

[+GeoGeeBee]

 

Then without warning, toy GPSs appeared on the market, pre-loaded with the coords to hundreds of thousands of caches. No requirement to visit the website; just go out and find stuff. Groundspeak had just created a third class of user; we have premium members, members, and now also the public (who we usually call muggles) as users of the coordinate data.

 

 

Have you ever even SEEN a Geomate Jr? The instruction booklet that comes with it contains a very good introduction to geocaching. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that it has MORE information than the average new geocaching.com member will find on the website before seeking their first cache.

 

http://apisphere.com/GeomatejrUsersGuide.pdf

 

In fact, one could argue that the Geomate purchaser is MORE serious about geocaching than the average person who signs up on the website. After all, they bought a device that isn't really good for anything except geocaching. Many people who sign up on the website bought a GPS for some other purpose, and geocaching is just one more thing that they have found to do with it.

 

You're getting all worked up about nothing. Relax, go find some geocaches.

[+Ike 13]

Good points GeoGeeBee and thanks for that link. Slightly off-topic how would you know if your geocache was one of the preloaded? It would not change anything for me, but it would be nice to know.

[GOF and Bacall]

I was trying to get Keystone to quote me the going rate on coordinates in PA but he seems to be ignoring my question. Can you imagine such a thing?

[+Viajero Perdido]

I think the instructional material with the toy GPS came along later, after some negative feedback.

 

You're getting all worked up about nothing. Relax, go find some geocaches.

I'm not worked up. But my caches are PMO as a result. They still get visited.

 

And I didn't notice this thread filling up with 40+ posts because I was out caching.

[+GeoGeeBee]

I think the instructional material with the toy GPS came along later, after some negative feedback.

 

 

Why do you think that? Do you have any evidence that this is true?

 

I don't have any evidence that it's NOT true, mind you. But I can't imagine a company that would sell a product designed for a specific purpose of finding geocaches without providing some instruction on how to, you know, find geocaches. And what to do after you find them.

 

The Geomate jr. is not a toy, either. It uses a better chipset than a lot of more expensive GPS devices. A number of regulars in this forum have mentioned that they have one, just for picking up caches when traveling without having to plan ahead for it.

 

Anyway, your original point that GS is "selling coordinates to muggles" is hogwash. A person who buys a Geomate is not a muggle, he is a cacher. Just because he took a different route to enter the hobby than you did doesn't make him inferior.

 

You remind me of the Old Timers in the ham community who look down on anyone who got a license after the FCC removed the morse code requirements.

[knowschad]

I think the instructional material with the toy GPS came along later, after some negative feedback.

 

 

Why do you think that? Do you have any evidence that this is true?

 

I don't have any evidence that it's NOT true, mind you. But I can't imagine a company that would sell a product designed for a specific purpose of finding geocaches without providing some instruction on how to, you know, find geocaches. And what to do after you find them.

 

The Geomate jr. is not a toy, either. It uses a better chipset than a lot of more expensive GPS devices. A number of regulars in this forum have mentioned that they have one, just for picking up caches when traveling without having to plan ahead for it.

 

Anyway, your original point that GS is "selling coordinates to muggles" is hogwash. A person who buys a Geomate is not a muggle, he is a cacher. Just because he took a different route to enter the hobby than you did doesn't make him inferior.

 

You remind me of the Old Timers in the ham community who look down on anyone who got a license after the FCC removed the morse code requirements.

Were you around for the original Geomate, Jr. threads? It was a very incomplete product at the time of the original release. As I recall, lack of educational materials on caches and trackables was one of the major complaints.

 

I will say, though, that those that drop the money on a Geomate Jr may be a bit more committed to caching that the person that downloads a geocaching app for their smartphone, and there are probably a lot more of the latter.

[Mr.Yuck]

I think the instructional material with the toy GPS came along later, after some negative feedback.

 

You're getting all worked up about nothing. Relax, go find some geocaches.

I'm not worked up. But my caches are PMO as a result. They still get visited.

 

And I didn't notice this thread filling up with 40+ posts because I was out caching.

 

So if I remember correctly, the note posted to the cache page that is the subject of this thread said something along the lines of "Friends in Edmonton tell me Geocaching.com is selling cache coordinates to muggles". Let me guess, you're the "friends".

 

Well, I don't know that you're "worked up", but you do have a rather strong opinion about something (Geomate Jr.) that the overwhelming majority of Geocachers seem to have no problem with at all.

 

I see you joined in June, 2005. I'm sure you know that it wasn't until 2006, or even 2007, that Geocaching.com required people to have an account to "get" cache coordinates. Before that, and for over half of Geocaching's existance, your coordinates were just sitting there for anyone with an internet connection to look at. Heck, I'll bet some of my caches from 2003 or 2004 have 20 or more signatures of people who just found them, and never logged on the website. And no, Mr. T, I do not cross the signatures out if they don't log on the internet.

 

Unless of course you didn't like this either, and had all your caches as MOC's back then.

[GOF and Bacall]

I think the instructional material with the toy GPS came along later, after some negative feedback.

 

 

Why do you think that? Do you have any evidence that this is true?

 

I don't have any evidence that it's NOT true, mind you. But I can't imagine a company that would sell a product designed for a specific purpose of finding geocaches without providing some instruction on how to, you know, find geocaches. And what to do after you find them.

 

The Geomate jr. is not a toy, either. It uses a better chipset than a lot of more expensive GPS devices. A number of regulars in this forum have mentioned that they have one, just for picking up caches when traveling without having to plan ahead for it.

 

Anyway, your original point that GS is "selling coordinates to muggles" is hogwash. A person who buys a Geomate is not a muggle, he is a cacher. Just because he took a different route to enter the hobby than you did doesn't make him inferior.

 

You remind me of the Old Timers in the ham community who look down on anyone who got a license after the FCC removed the morse code requirements.

Were you around for the original Geomate, Jr. threads? It was a very incomplete product at the time of the original release. As I recall, lack of educational materials on caches and trackables was one of the major complaints.

 

I will say, though, that those that drop the money on a Geomate Jr may be a bit more committed to caching that the person that downloads a geocaching app for their smartphone, and there are probably a lot more of the latter.

 

You did look smarter with the glasses but I don't know, you're sounding pretty smart right now.

 

I remember that they had a guy in here answering questions. If I recall one of the things they did was to add info to the early packaging as a result of the response on the forums. I have to give 'em credit for coming in here and facing the complaints and answering the questions. You just don't see that very often.