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Is anyone else getting a bit miffed....


Pharisee

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....with these cache logs that just say "Sent from my mobile device" and nothing else? I think I'd rather they just say "TNLN TFTC" than that as it tells me absolutely nothing.

It would seem that it is a 'default' message as they always appear exactly the same. Is it because these 'mobile devices' (whatever they are) don't have the facility to add any text of is it that the cachers concerned are just too goddam lazy to type in a few characters? :yikes: I think I'm going to be a bit controversial (nothing new there, then) and start deleting them.

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I think it is people using the Iphone app that I have. It says type of log then add message as the next option (implying optional?) I'm guessing that if you leave it blank it just adds 'sent from my iphone' like it does at the end of an email.

 

Now, I can't make the log sending feature of the app work to test this theory, but that is another story!

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....with these cache logs that just say "Sent from my mobile device" and nothing else? I think I'd rather they just say "TNLN TFTC" than that as it tells me absolutely nothing.

It would seem that it is a 'default' message as they always appear exactly the same. Is it because these 'mobile devices' (whatever they are) don't have the facility to add any text of is it that the cachers concerned are just too goddam lazy to type in a few characters? :yikes: I think I'm going to be a bit controversial (nothing new there, then) and start deleting them.

 

I don't even own any caches but agree they're lame logs. If I do a series of caches I usually won't write a detailed log on every single one - I usually write a longer log for any that were particularly memorable and then the last one I found gets a longer log to sum up my thought son the entire series. So I suppose TFTC or "another find in the series" doesn't say any more than "sent from my mobile device"

 

Would "nice easy find... sent from my mobile device" be any better?

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I can't say it's something that worries me too much. I note on some of my older caches that log-length has got shorter on average, over the years. People are busy. Life is short. Series are 50 unspecial caches leading to an enjoyable day and walk, but finding something to say about each one is a challenge. I do think a find is a find though, so deleting a brief, but non-spoiler/abusive log wouldn't be an appropriate response. But that's just how I roll.

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I think I'm going to be a bit controversial (nothing new there, then) and start deleting them.

 

It's not a condition of logging to write more than "n" number of words, or that you can't put a full stop, or that you need to write more than "tnlnsl tftc". Deleting finds because you don't like what they wrote is wrong, I think. Just accept that some people write a lot, and some don't (or can't.... for whatever reason).

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My eldest son (crispystrips) occasionally comes caching with us as indeed he did this morning. I should mention that he is 22 and autistic and uses his Iphone; having said that he leaves most of the "work" to us but it is a good way of giving him some fresh air and exercise!

 

He likes to get finds logged immediately rather than waiting till we get home as we do. Probably one of his autistic traits! But it's something he likes to do himself although he does find it extremely fiddly; still, the default message is perfect for him particularly as prior to the recent update he had to enter his own narrative which sometimes caused reactions.

 

So for him the message which the Iphone sends is perfect. It says nothing less than the "TFTC" which you see on many logs and I have to say I would be extremely miffed if cache owners started deleting them.....

Edited by uncleadolph&angelbex
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I think I'm going to be a bit controversial (nothing new there, then) and start deleting them.

That has the potential to get you into a confrontation with TPTB which I suspect you would lose, quickly, as to insist upon poetic logs would be an Additional Logging Requirement.

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So for him the message which the Iphone sends is perfect. It says nothing less than the "TFTC" which you see on many logs and I have to say I would be extremely miffed if cache owners started deleting them.....

With respect... I think it does say something less than "TFTC". Or probably, to be a little more correct, doesn't say as much as TFTC which we all know is an abbreviation for Thanks for the cache. That, at least, gives the impression that the finder has some appreciation for the work involved in setting up a cache. A pre-recorded "sent from my mobile device" just gives me the impression that the finder doesn't give a toss about it.

 

This is in no way intended as a slight against your son. I fully appreciate the difficulties some have and always make allowances for them.

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This is in no way intended as a slight against your son. I fully appreciate the difficulties some have and always make allowances for them.

I'm not sure how you're going to reconcile that with deleting logs from people about whom you don't know very much. I suppose you could wait and see if you get a nastygram from an autistic cacher's parents explaining what happened, but by then they will have had to cope with their child's disappointment; plus, you've just announced that anyone can write to you with "sorry, account holder has handicap X" and you'll restore the log.

 

As one of the posts above said, there is no requirement for any length of log, and Groundspeak would not be happy if you deleted logs because they didn't seem to express sufficient (or any) gratitude for the cache.

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I've just tested it on my iPhone logging one of my own caches. The iPhone Geocaching app presents you a blank log screen with no default text so you write what you want. So it is probably from one of the other mobile apps.

 

Regarding deleting logs. This is from the guidelines on cache maintenance: Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements. So if the person has signed the cache logbook then deleting the online log just because it was sent from a smart phone isn't really within the spirit of the game. You cannot insist how people write their online logs or with what tool. From the guidelines: Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed.

 

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

Geocaching.com Knowledge Books

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As a cacher rather than a hider, logs that are just 'TFTC' or 'logged from my mobile' give me no indication as to how the find experience was for that person. Descriptive or even verbose logs are always a pleasure to read, whether at home or out in the field.

 

Looking back on previous logs whilst searching for that elusive cache can make a difference between a find and a DNF. You may be able to get a better idea as to whether your own search is heading in the right direction.

 

It's also mildly annoying to see such logs when looking back on your own finds to see how those following you got on, especially when you've done a lot of searching and headscratching to eventually find the cache and sign the log, only to see those imortal words 'logged from my mobile device' or similar.

 

If your mobile device sends that text by default, then fine, but it would be nice to edit the log and add something a little more meaningful for other users.

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Graculus.....the Iphone app does indeed present you with a blank screen. But the text is then added on the Geocaching.com log. As I say, this is what my son does!

 

Perhaps the Iphone app default text could be changed or perhaps there could be a selection of messages which could be chosen to make the log a little more "meaningful". But not everyone necessarily has the ability to alter logs; I would have thought that if the physical log was signed (which it is in my son's case) then what he chooses to enter on the website is totally irrelevant.

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I'm not bothered at all.

I'm more concerned by what Groundspeak are allowing on these forums.

I won't say anything more except.....

Forum announcements are made.

Forum readers comment.

Mods close the threads once things get hot!

:yikes:

 

PS...I'm still feeling somewhat chipper as my footie team are doing well. :sad:

Edited by currykev
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Graculus.....the Iphone app does indeed present you with a blank screen. But the text is then added on the Geocaching.com log. As I say, this is what my son does!

 

Perhaps the Iphone app default text could be changed or perhaps there could be a selection of messages which could be chosen to make the log a little more "meaningful". But not everyone necessarily has the ability to alter logs; I would have thought that if the physical log was signed (which it is in my son's case) then what he chooses to enter on the website is totally irrelevant.

 

Indeed! I just posted a log but wrote nothing in the box and you get that default message, Sent from my mobile device. When you check the log submitted on the phone it says NO_TEXT..... So I guess people using the app either don't bother writing any text or don't understand how to use the app :yikes:

 

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

Geocaching.com Knowledge Books

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Regarding deleting logs. This is from the guidelines on cache maintenance: Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements. So if the person has signed the cache logbook then deleting the online log just because it was sent from a smart phone isn't really within the spirit of the game. You cannot insist how people write their online logs or with what tool. From the guidelines: Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed.

 

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

Geocaching.com Knowledge Books

 

 

 

 

So if a online log says something like 'found with [joe] and [sam] but now have my own account' and you late find they have not signed the logs then it is ok to delete?

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If I log "TFTC" it means I think the cache is ill-thought-out and I wonder why the cache setter bothered. I am seriously considering deleting logs that say less than that.

The guidelines don't let you do that without a good reason. Soooo... perhaps you might consider putting together some officious text to be sent to lazy loggers, to get you some semblance of the justification you need, like this:

Dear geocacher,

 

In order to maintain the quality of the cache description page, the 'found' logs are examined periodically with a view to confirming that the finds are genuine. Your log dated 99-Zogtember-1999 for cache GC9ZYXWV leaves room for doubt and will be DELETED in three days if proof of visit is not provided, for example by updating the log with a little descriptive text.

 

Thank you,

 

<cache owner>

But is it worth it for grudge that may ensue?

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If I log "TFTC" it means I think the cache is ill-thought-out and I wonder why the cache setter bothered. I am seriously considering deleting logs that say less than that.

 

And how would the cache owner know what was in your mind? Wouldn't it be better to elaborate rather than just saying TFTC - whereby they're expected to know you thought the cache was ill thought out and the CO needent have bothered.

 

Trimble on the BB gives an auto message for the field notes when you click on cache found - but it's published to the fieldnotes, not the cache page, so when we get home we can edit and log find at our leisure. I wish it did have the option to write more though.

Edited by 4 and The Dog
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As stated before, you cannot beat the dedicated PSr unit for locating the cache. I use the iPhone as a resource AND this includes utilising the time between moving from one cache to the next by writing the log - in full - on the iPhone.

 

 

If a cache and dash type find, then a minute or two before driving off is used to do this. I never realised how much time could be saved doing this.

 

 

I remember the 'Good old days' which weren't that long ago for me, when having arrived home from a days caching, a further hour or two needed to be spent logging the day's finds.

 

 

Now, the logs are sent in the field or if no internet access, there is the facility to save them ALL and logs are sent in one go!

 

 

Great stuff.

 

 

personally I do not thing the phone Apps / Androids etc should be used as primary devices but an aid.

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When I am out in a cache rich area with only my iPhone I leave very limited logs just so I can see on the App where I have been and where I still have to go, I then complete the logs when I get to a PC. Normally I use my GPS in which case I can change the caches to found to keep me on track. Are the 'empty' logs still empty a few days later?

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Are the 'empty' logs still empty a few days later?
As has been mentioned before, the cache owner is emailed only the initial log. I don't really have time to revisit the cache page every few hours for "a few days" just to see if the log has been edited :-)

 

I think terse or repetitive logs are most often due to laziness, and as such are disrespectful to the owner of a decent quality cache. Quite as bad as very short logs are cut and paste logs where the text is wholly inappropriate to the cache into which the text has been pasted. If it's a rubbish cache then a terse log is all it deserves, though even then I would prefer to make the effort to explain why I didn't enjoy it so much.

 

The problem is that for a very tiny minority it is not laziness but disability, and there is no way to tell which.

 

Rgds, Andy

Edited by Amberel
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Yes, it's very annoying! As others have said, it doesn't even say "Thanks" it says nothing except they found the cache.

For a cache hider the only feedback you get from people who find the caches is from the logs. I don't want to just hear that you found it, but how did you find it, did you enjoy the walk there, who was with you, did you find it easily or not?

Otherwise it's just some random username that means nothing to me and they've found the cache, might as well not have bothered!

 

I think the iPhone app is a problem if that's where the logs are coming from. You choose "Found it" from the menu, but then you have to do another tap to open up a screen to write a message, it's all too temping to just skip that part and push "Send Log" instead a redesign to you have to write "something" would be appreciated!

 

Personally although I use the iPhone for all of my caching, including submitting logs, if I'm on a trip where I'm finding multiple caches that I wait until I get home to log my finds - still with the phone. As it's easier to write out the logs when your sat at home then when walking through a muddy field! Plus you can put things in context e.g. "Nice easy find, a pity the rest of the caches today weren't!"

Edited by markhewitt1978
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Are the 'empty' logs still empty a few days later?

 

I haven't had any on my caches yet, but I've seen a few of these logs on some of the local caches that are on my watchlist, so went back to have a look at those logs again just now and they're still there with just the automated text.

 

Personally I do my logging via field notes, while out in the field I just stick a word or two to help me remember the cache (e.g. Dogs, Log full, Sneaky etc), then when I go to upload the field notes that's enough to help me write a couple of sentences.

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A log is a Log at the end of the day.

The finder is letting you know that they have signed the log book in the cache.

If it’s a great cache and you can see that the person setting the cache has put a real effort into the hide or the trail, not just drive by caches, like a pot just plonked on top of a post. Which I have also done myself just for the sake of a hide: rolleyes:

Then yes it does deserve a decent log out of respect to the cache owner, but you also have to remember there are plenty of people out there that enjoy the game and don’t like writing long logs as they may have a disability like dyslexia and there are also plenty of people that have ago about peoples spelling and grammar that does not do their confidence any good so that’s perhaps why they log how they do.

I don’t see the point of deleting someone’s log just because you’re not happy what it say’s.

 

Kev

Edited by Lorri-Ann & Kev
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Graculus.....the Iphone app does indeed present you with a blank screen. But the text is then added on the Geocaching.com log. As I say, this is what my son does!

 

Perhaps the Iphone app default text could be changed or perhaps there could be a selection of messages which could be chosen to make the log a little more "meaningful". But not everyone necessarily has the ability to alter logs; I would have thought that if the physical log was signed (which it is in my son's case) then what he chooses to enter on the website is totally irrelevant.

 

Indeed! I just posted a log but wrote nothing in the box and you get that default message, Sent from my mobile device. When you check the log submitted on the phone it says NO_TEXT..... So I guess people using the app either don't bother writing any text or don't understand how to use the app ;)

 

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

Geocaching.com Knowledge Books

I take it that as the site won't let you log a 0 character log (hence " . " logs) the 'mobile device' app makers have inserted 'Sent from...' as a means of preventing "ERROR" messages from the Groundspeak site when submitting empty logs ...

 

Maybe someone needs to suggest to the app makers that users should be able to change the default "Sent from...' to their own default, such as "Team We Cache found this one! TFTC"

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I think I've said on anothe thread here, but - I'll normally write a full log (on the phone) saying how I found it, what I thought etc. This is done at the time, or when moving between caches.

 

Some don't need anything more than TFTC though, for example when we did 20 odd of a series round Grafham Water, 20-odd micros, 700m apart - there wasn't a huge amount to say. I didn't have the app on my phone then so when I got home it was a cut & paste job, just changing the number (found number x of 20).

 

As I don't tend to go out "power caching" I normally have plenty of time to write a log, but I don't think its right to delete a log just because you don't like what it says (unless its insulting etc).

 

Personally I'd love to have a default "long" signature to go on the bottom of whatever else I've written...

 

C

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The finder is letting you know that they have signed the log book in the cache.

 

Sorry, Kev but no they aren't. All they are letting me know is that they've pressed a couple of buttons on their mobile phone. Without going to check the logbook, I can't even be sure they've visited the cache. They could be sitting at home for all I know. There's absolutely nothing in their logs to indicate that they've even been outdoors, much less visited a cache.

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The finder is letting you know that they have signed the log book in the cache.

 

Sorry, Kev but no they aren't. All they are letting me know is that they've pressed a couple of buttons on their mobile phone. Without going to check the logbook, I can't even be sure they've visited the cache. They could be sitting at home for all I know. There's absolutely nothing in their logs to indicate that they've even been outdoors, much less visited a cache.

 

By that token, there is never any evidence that people have actually visited unless you check the logs.

 

I think people are still getting to grips with the programs on the phones, and once they realise what is happening will sort it - maybe a gentle email saying "Not sure if you realise, but you didn't actually write anything in the log" might be of more benefit than just deleting the log.

 

This seems to be a common solution nowadays - especially reading some of the other groups on the forum. I can't see the point of deleting logs for the sake of it, especially with the influx of new generation cachers that you're getting due to the phone aps.

 

Personally, I've got an excel sheet with them all recorded on, so it makes no difference if a log gets deleted - I've still found the cache - which (some people forget) is the aim of the GAME....

 

Chalky

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I think people are still getting to grips with the programs on the phones, and once they realise what is happening will sort it - maybe a gentle email saying "Not sure if you realise, but you didn't actually write anything in the log" might be of more benefit than just deleting the log.

 

This seems to be a common solution nowadays - especially reading some of the other groups on the forum. I can't see the point of deleting logs for the sake of it, especially with the influx of new generation cachers that you're getting due to the phone aps.

 

Personally, I've got an excel sheet with them all recorded on, so it makes no difference if a log gets deleted - I've still found the cache - which (some people forget) is the aim of the GAME....

 

A gentle email may well be a good idea.

 

One point of deleting a log would be to educate the influx that the aim of the game isn't to just do your thing in selfish isolation but to reach out to your fellow game players and acknowledge they exist and went to the trouble of hiding a cache, and that at least some sort of a log is required to play the game properly. The aim of the game isn't just to find cache - it's more than that.

 

I don't care if it's a short log, it can even smell of paste and have some cut marks around the edge, but '.' is just rude and the 'sent from ...' is much the same. Just imagine if everyone logged caches with '.' - how many people would continue to hide caches? I think the 'sent from...' logs are because folk don't understand the app. I actually sent one myself the other day by accidentally pressing the wrong button before having written anything. I did, of course, go and edit it when I got home. The app could be better designed from this pov.

 

(By the way, I'd rather have a short cut&paste log than a long rambling cut&paste job. Looks like an interesting paragraph, then you realise its exactly the same.)

 

Copy and paste (inc. on iPhone4) should presumably be useful for anyone who struggles to write a log. Craft something short, then just paste it in. But I don't believe most people have any problems, just have odd attitudes - it would be nice to say Ta.

To be honest, most people do and rubbish logs aren't that common, and generally just get ignored by me. :)

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I think people are still getting to grips with the programs on the phones, and once they realise what is happening will sort it - maybe a gentle email saying "Not sure if you realise, but you didn't actually write anything in the log" might be of more benefit than just deleting the log.

 

This seems to be a common solution nowadays - especially reading some of the other groups on the forum. I can't see the point of deleting logs for the sake of it, especially with the influx of new generation cachers that you're getting due to the phone aps.

 

Personally, I've got an excel sheet with them all recorded on, so it makes no difference if a log gets deleted - I've still found the cache - which (some people forget) is the aim of the GAME....

 

A gentle email may well be a good idea.

 

One point of deleting a log would be to educate the influx that the aim of the game isn't to just do your thing in selfish isolation but to reach out to your fellow game players and acknowledge they exist and went to the trouble of hiding a cache, and that at least some sort of a log is required to play the game properly. The aim of the game isn't just to find cache - it's more than that.

 

I don't care if it's a short log, it can even smell of paste and have some cut marks around the edge, but '.' is just rude and the 'sent from ...' is much the same. Just imagine if everyone logged caches with '.' - how many people would continue to hide caches? I think the 'sent from...' logs are because folk don't understand the app. I actually sent one myself the other day by accidentally pressing the wrong button before having written anything. I did, of course, go and edit it when I got home. The app could be better designed from this pov.

 

(By the way, I'd rather have a short cut&paste log than a long rambling cut&paste job. Looks like an interesting paragraph, then you realise its exactly the same.)

 

Copy and paste (inc. on iPhone4) should presumably be useful for anyone who struggles to write a log. Craft something short, then just paste it in. But I don't believe most people have any problems, just have odd attitudes - it would be nice to say Ta.

To be honest, most people do and rubbish logs aren't that common, and generally just get ignored by me. :)

I think the "." is also an automated log on the same app.

Not sure but i think it went from a blank space to a dot to 'send from...'

evolutionary speaking

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I don't give two hoots what the log was written on, I certainly don't want to have an Apple Iphone advert on every log - thank you very much!

 

Same here, I don't care about short or even perfunctory logs, but cloned adverts are very annoying.

So a "sent from my mobile device" is not acceptable but a "TFTC" is?

 

yes

 

at least the person that type TFTC used some effort, even if its minimal, to write something

 

"sent from my mobile device" is disrespectful, shows that whom ever does it can't even be bothered to exert that minimal effort to type 4 letters and chooses to actually send a blank log :)

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I must agree with John (which I rarely do :) ) I think it is p*ss ignorant, if someone has gone to the effort to set a cache then at least show some respect and give the cache a few words if it's naff say why, if it was good say why, but a set message from a mobile phone, not even stating that you have found the cache in my opinion is wrong..all the messages on my caches say is "sent from my mobile device" sent what from your mobile device?? :)

 

I wouldn't even mind if people did this while out in the field to keep a check on the caches they did that day, then changed it for a proper log once they were back home/on a computer, but on my caches that have this message they have been there for weeks :huh:

 

I even agree with Rutson (that will be a first Ian :rolleyes: ) I also write TFTC if in my opinion the cache was naff, the longer my write ups the better the cache, that's the way I personally do it..

 

I must be part of the old school now but to me it is sheer laziness, too many folks want too many caches too quick, there no fun/enjoyment in that for me, but as everyone says you play your way I will play mine

 

M :) (Who is pleased she only switched her mobile on twice a year if it is lucky :laughing: )

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if it's naff say why

 

I also write TFTC if in my opinion the cache was naff

 

A bit of a contradiction there Mandy :)

 

I had some T4TC logs on a few of my caches this evening. I know the caches are good and don't deserve the T4TC log (I appreciate individual logs, but I'm just happy that someone bothered to go and find the caches. I didn't set them to earn respect. I set them to be found.

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if it's naff say why

 

I also write TFTC if in my opinion the cache was naff

 

A bit of a contradiction there Mandy :laughing:

 

I had some T4TC logs on a few of my caches this evening. I know the caches are good and don't deserve the T4TC log (I appreciate individual logs, but I'm just happy that someone bothered to go and find the caches. I didn't set them to earn respect. I set them to be found.

 

I realised as soon as I reread what I had written that I had contradicted myself Stuey

 

Let's put it this way, I would like to think people would put honest notes on naff caches,

 

I did... and I got rude emails, and my caches started disappearing and I had to get help from people higher than me in the geo world......I don't want to say any more than that :) ........ so for me now it is a TFTC if it is naff, I know I am being a coward by doing that, but it is a case of "owt for a quiet life" and my locals know what it means.

 

But even TFTC is better than "sent from...

 

M :rolleyes:

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As a novice hider (so far only one series out)I am happy that someone is going out and finding them - So at this time, even though I have spent some time researching hides etc., I am not unhappy with what people put on the logs. I don't mind laminate cards, "sent from mobile" or any other such messages even TFTC

(which I didn't realise was a negative comment- I thought it meant thanks for the cache ?) :)

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I am one of those people who use a mobile device to find my caches. Usually, I enter a short log if I want to do it in the field and then later on, update / edit the log entry with more pertinent information.

 

Sounds like a cop out but it is a very easy way (for a mobile device user) to track which caches they have found on a given day. I don't use a 'standard' TFTC TNLN SL but do write some words even in my brief note to be expanded on later.

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