Offensive language in cache logbooks

[+Pathfinder24]

Recent caching expereince. opened a log book to see someone (a cacher) had used the F word in their log. (descirbing the muggle factor). I was shocked that someone would do this in a family orientated game, and scribbled out the word. I was then 'told off' for censoring logs.

I maintain that I did not censor the log as any one who alreeady knows that word (ie adults) will know what is written underneath, but anyone who doesn't know the word (ie some of the younger geocachers out there) is protected from the inappropriate language - admittably probably only till they get to school in this day and age - but I'm not comfortable for caching to be where they pick up this language.

I refused to answer the 'telling off' note on the cache's webpage as it was not the appropriate place for the arguement, and the person doing the 'telling off' was not the cache owner.

So thought I'd look on the forums and see what others thought, only haven't found any threads regarding this exact topic, so... topic started, let the freedom of speech vs protecting the children disscussions begin.

 

For any one who wants to see the online logs I am refering to... GC1XKBR - called Chocobo Bridge.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Pathfinder24

[+Geodalf]

 

For any one who wants to see the online logs I am refering to... GC1XKBR.

This GC # does not bring up the cache. My guideline would be would the website tolerate this language in on line logs?

[+Lovejoy and Tinker]

 

For any one who wants to see the online logs I am refering to... GC1XKBR.

This GC # does not bring up the cache.

Yes it does - Chocobo Bridge

 

The guy who told you off was being 'a bit silly' in my opinion. You did the right thing deleting the word.

 

Edit: To remove a word someone considered to amount to shameful vilification. Apologies if it was an over the top word to use.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Lovejoy and Tinker

[FunkMaster-T]

I, for one, agree with you, Pathfinder. I have no use for using that kind of language in logs and such. Anyone could be reading them. And I am certainly not someone to scold anyone else for "such Language" as I have been known to drop a couple of bombs from time to time. Its all about time and place. I actually work at a casino where we do not allow swearing. Think about that, you must be an adult to enter and you can guarantee that only adults are within earshot. Add that to the fact that you are probably going to lose money and its completely understandable why someone would swear but we emphasise that we are here for the enjoyment of ALL of our patrons and we would rather not have that kind of atmosphere. Most people get it although we usually boot people from tha building at least once a weekend because they insist on continuing to swear (and please understand we are reasonable...you have to be blatantly being a jerk to be booted...we aren't going to throw you out for the odd slip up). Although ultimatly it is up to the CO to decide if he wants that kind of langauge in his caches. ...T.

[+t4e]

 

For any one who wants to see the online logs I am refering to... GC1XKBR.

This GC # does not bring up the cache. My guideline would be would the website tolerate this language in on line logs?

 

was not an online log

[+LukeTrocity]

Fill in the blank:

 

Freedom of ______

 

If the kid can read, they've probably heard that word a thousand times now. FYI

Edited September 8, 2010 by luketrocity

[+BlueDeuce]

I'd scribbled it too. And I even enjoy saying the occasional swear word.

[+BlueDeuce]

Fill in the blank:

 

Freedom of ______

 

 

The FCC?

 

 

(Yes, I am aware this is not covered by the FCC, just making a point)

[+jenny08_1015]

I would have scribbled it out too. If you do it again, just don't post it on the online log. People will wonder who is protecting young eyes -- you're like Batman!

[knowschad]

I would have scribbled it out too. If you do it again, just don't post it on the online log. People will wonder who is protecting young eyes -- you're like Batman!

My thoughts, too. Why did you feel it was necessary to mention it in your log?

 

By the way, you were not censoring... you were redacting.

[+kunarion]

So thought I'd look on the forums and see what others thought, only haven't found any threads regarding this exact topic, so... topic started, let the freedom of speech vs protecting the children disscussions begin.

Mark it out, at least do a well-placed mark or two . People can write whatever and as much as they want to. But while they're at it, they can keep it polite.

 

I've seen logs with profanity, nasty drawings, even pagefuls of vulgar stories, but they were written by muggles, in the logs of heavily muggled caches -- the well-known containers near teen hangouts that are treated as communal toyboxes. Those logs would be tough to make family-friendly. <- So, what did I do in that situation, you ask? I photographed a couple of the less-bawdy ones, blurred the page where necessary, and posted them on the online cache log, of course!

Edited September 8, 2010 by kunarion

[+dbrierley]

The guidelines say, "Geocaching is a family activity and cache contents should be suitable for all ages." Mentioning the logbook problem in the online log was definitely a good idea; other cachers are forewarned. I don't think the scribble is a big issue, but an alternative would be to follow up the online log with a message to the cache owner. The cacher who posted the critical note should not have done so there; the logs shouldn't be used as a forum.

Edited September 8, 2010 by dbrierley

[+Sierra Rat]

Recent caching expereince. opened a log book to see someone (a cacher) had used the F word in their log. (descirbing the muggle factor). I was shocked that someone would do this in a family orientated game, and scribbled out the word. I was then 'told off' for censoring logs.

I maintain that I did not censor the log as any one who alreeady knows that word (ie adults) will know what is written underneath, but anyone who doesn't know the word (ie some of the younger geocachers out there) is protected from the inappropriate language - admittably probably only till they get to school in this day and age - but I'm not comfortable for caching to be where they pick up this language.

I refused to answer the 'telling off' note on the cache's webpage as it was not the appropriate place for the arguement, and the person doing the 'telling off' was not the cache owner.

So thought I'd look on the forums and see what others thought, only haven't found any threads regarding this exact topic, so... topic started, let the freedom of speech vs protecting the children disscussions begin.

 

For any one who wants to see the online logs I am refering to... GC1XKBR - called Chocobo Bridge.

 

I too would have deleted the word. I don't find the word so much offensive anymore as I do boring. However, this doesn't mean it should be left for young eyes to view and even if they have seen or heard the words before, it doesn't mean they should be viewed as condoned by people who are "mental” adults. This word and words like it are used by the inarticulate and uneducated. I've also removed a three pack of condoms that I found in a cache once. Sometimes, the real adults just need to take charge.

[+LukeTrocity]

The guidelines say, "Geocaching is a family activity and cache contents should be suitable for all ages." Mentioning the logbook problem in the online log was definitely a good idea; other cachers are forewarned. I don't think the scribble is a big issue, but an alternative would be to follow up the online log with a message to the cache owner. The cacher who posted the critical note should not have done so there; the logs shouldn't be used as a forum.

The problem is your running on the assumption that swear words are age appropriate. What's appropriate for some may not be for others.

[Derf69]

Fill in the blank:

 

Freedom of ______

 

 

The FCC?

 

 

(Yes, I am aware this is not covered by the FCC, just making a point)

 

It's also not covered under the first amendment. I guess it might be if the OP is a member of congress but we all know how hard those people work and they would never have had time for geocaching.

[+dbrierley]

The problem is your running on the assumption that swear words are age appropriate. What's appropriate for some may not be for others.

 

I don't condone the use of profanity in the logbooks at all -- it's not age appropriate; I would have scribbled out the word myself. I presented an alternative action for those that may not feel comfortable about scribbling out the word themselves if they find themselves in the situation.

[knowschad]

A strong suggestion for next time: just scribble it out and shut up. Don't post online about it... not in the logs, not in the forum. Just do it and go on to the next cache. For those (like me) that really could (not) care less, forget about the scribbling part and go on to the next cache as well. This is not that big a deal. Kids hear and see profanity, and they live. They may even grow up to be reasonably "normal".

[+e5c4p3artist]

I find this quote from the guy who replied to your log amusing...

 

"However I do find censorship quite 'offensive' (that's also just me), so can you please not censor logs in future? I'd really appreciate that."

 

Thanks dude, is there anything else that is "just you" that you'd like the rest of the world to do for you?

[4wheelin_fool]

If it was the F-bomb I would have crossed it out also (while cussing them out).

 

I had a cache that was muggled and the muggle was a girl who wrote in the logbook that we were a bunch of dorks and bitches. The container was missing, but the swag and the logbook were there. I repaired the cache and rehid it. However, another cacher found it and ripped the muggle note out because they found it offensive. I was a little annoyed as I did not find anything too bad in the note, and thought it was a little humorous, and I wanted to preserve the handwriting to see if there were any patterns. It was not really that bad, but freedom of speech covers only government censorship, and the cacher that tore out the note was really practicing his own form of freedom of speech anyhow (if you could consider censorship a form of freedom of speech) so I didnt worry about it.

 

You did nothing wrong.

[+brslk]

I'd have torn that %&*^&* a new *^^& and then written on the log, what an ^$@#$ so and so was and %^$^& all about it everywhere to anyone that would $%^& listen!

 

Actually I rarely swear and even more rare is when I write profanity.

 

The wife swears like a trucker though...

Edited September 8, 2010 by brslk

[Trader Rick & Rosie]

 

The guy who told you off is an idiot. You did the right thing deleting the word.

 

The guy who replied to your log is NOT an idiot and doesn't deserve to be shamefully vilified in the forums via name calling, especially when he's not here to defend himself. You did not do the right thing by deleting the word.

 

The cache log belongs to the CO and you have no right to alter someone else's log entry,no matter how offensive it may be to you.

 

The "idiot" was polite, if not a little snarky. We're with him on this one. We don't condone the bad word writing in the logbook, that was wrong, but it's up to the CO as to how he wants to handle it. If he agrees with your actions, so be it.

[+Lovejoy and Tinker]

Shamefully vilified? Hmmm, okay.

If I wanted to shamefully vilify someone (which I wouldn't) I think I would have used something stronger than that. But anyway, it's gone now so no one need be upset at my use of such 'offensive' language.

 

But you are right, it is up to the CO how he handles it, both the word written in the log and the actions of the OP in deleting it.

So why did the guy who posted the note get involved?

The CO would have seen the log explaining that the word had been removed so could, if he had wished, either posted his own note to the cache page or contacted the OP. He didn't so we can assume he was either happy that the word was removed from his cache or didn't care either way.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Lovejoy and Tinker

[+Lovejoy and Tinker]

 

The guy who told you off is .... You did the right thing deleting the word.

 

The guy who replied to your log ... doesn't deserve to be shamefully vilified in the forums via name calling...

I have edited my first post. If you edit your repetition of my first post then the shameful vilification issue will be addressed.

Don't wish to upset anyone.

[Trader Rick & Rosie]

I can no more redact a post than I can something in a logbook.

[Morsedog]

I think there is a thin line between having morals and forcing your morals upon others. If you had found the word and scribbled it out and moved on with your life, then you have morals. If you go on a forum and try to belittle this person for doing something and dredge up the past to validate yourself, then you are forcing your morals on others.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Morsedog

[+rob3k]

I would have scribbled it out too. If you do it again, just don't post it on the online log.

 

Had the same thought.

[+lachupa]

While I would not drop the f bomb on a log it really wouldn't bother me to see that someone else had. Seeing that someone else had felt the need to cross it out later would only amuse me.

[Trader Rick & Rosie]

I think there is a thin line between having morals and forcing your morals upon others. If you had found the word and scribbled it out and moved on with your life, then you have morals. If you go on a forum and try to belittle this person for doing something and dredge up the past to validate yourself, then you are forcing your morals on others.

 

This makes no sense to us, at all.

[+Castle Mischief]

I'd scribbled it too. And I even enjoy saying the occasional swear word.

 

Word to the Blue. In the right company I drop f-bombs frequently. In the log book of a cache is not "in the right company".

 

I would not have mentioned doing this in my on-line log. Some people think that freedom of speech entitles you to be a offensive jerk at every opportunity.

 

ALSO: offensice

[+Frank Broughton]

Fill in the blank:

 

Freedom of ______

 

If the kid can read, they've probably heard that word a thousand times now. FYI

 

Hogwash and poppycock, that kind of mentality leads to nothing good. Respect is still a very good tool of the trade for human beings. Maybe you are accustomed to the word but we here in this household are not and find it very disrespectful.

[+Frank Broughton]

I too would have deleted the word. I don't find the word so much offensive anymore as I do boring. However, this doesn't mean it should be left for young eyes to view and even if they have seen or heard the words before, it doesn't mean they should be viewed as condoned by people who are "mental" adults. This word and words like it are used by the inarticulate and uneducated. I've also removed a three pack of condoms that I found in a cache once. Sometimes, the real adults just need to take charge.

 

Well said and atta boy to ya for saying it.

[+GeoGeeBee]

I would have minded my own business. But if I had chosen to mark out a word in the written log, I would not have mentioned it anywhere.

 

Not that I think you did anything wrong... I'm just saying what I would have done, and I'm only saying it because you asked.

[+Lovejoy and Tinker]

The word would not be permitted in a post on this forum. It would be deleted either by the system or by a forum moderator.

No different in a cache or online log.

 

Never mind kids, I am 46, by no means a prude, and I don't want to see swear words every time I open a log in a cache. I see and hear them enough the rest of the week (especially if I listen to myself hard enough sometimes).

Edited September 8, 2010 by Lovejoy and Tinker

[MisterEFQ]

Im glad you scratched it out. Because if I found that log my eyes might have exploded.

[+u.rusty]

I agree with your decision to redact the word. I also think that your choice to add that you did in the log is fine, it's part of the logs purpose.

 

I suggest that you simply ignore the comment after your log entry.

[hoosier guy]

The guidelines say, "Geocaching is a family activity and cache contents should be suitable for all ages." Mentioning the logbook problem in the online log was definitely a good idea; other cachers are forewarned. I don't think the scribble is a big issue, but an alternative would be to follow up the online log with a message to the cache owner. The cacher who posted the critical note should not have done so there; the logs shouldn't be used as a forum.

The problem is your running on the assumption that swear words are age appropriate. What's appropriate for some may not be for others.

 

This is true. I am well into my fourth decade and do not find this this is appropriate. What words you choose among your peers is one thing. What you do/say in public is another.

Edited September 8, 2010 by hoosier guy

[Andronicus]

I for one think that you should post a log replying to the anoying note logger (To be kind I wont use his name). Log somthing like this

 

Hey gar****

 

(deleted by moderator, you need to find a better way to illustrate your point than this)

 

***This is a joke. You should not post a log like this.

 

Ok, but maybe posting a reply will trip the "dont use the logs as a forums" detector, and will get both logs deleted.

Edited September 9, 2010 by mtn-man

[+roziecakes]

I find this quote from the guy who replied to your log amusing...

 

"However I do find censorship quite 'offensive' (that's also just me), so can you please not censor logs in future? I'd really appreciate that."

 

Thanks dude, is there anything else that is "just you" that you'd like the rest of the world to do for you?

 

I know, right!? Some people have a huge sense of entitlement, even about little things. I think it must have been his log.

 

I would have scratched it out too.

 

I just don't feel like geocaching is a platform for free speech rights or the lack there of.

[+scaramedic]

Fill in the blank:

 

Freedom of ______

 

If the kid can read, they've probably heard that word a thousand times now. FYI

 

Does not apply in this situation. The First Amendment applies to censorship by the government. An individual crossing out an offensive word is no more a violation of the First Amendment than the rules of this very forum.

 

2. Foul language and obscene images will not be tolerated. This site is family-friendly. All forum posts must conform to a family-friendly standard and contributors must act accordingly.

 

"However I do find censorship quite 'offensive' (that's also just me), so can you please not censor logs in future? I'd really appreciate that."

 

So his belief that 'censorship' is offensive is more important than your (and most peoples) belief that children need not be exposed to offensive language. Quite arrogant when you think about it.

[+Sierra Rat]

Fill in the blank:

 

Freedom of ______

 

If the kid can read, they've probably heard that word a thousand times now. FYI

 

Does not apply in this situation. The First Amendment applies to censorship by the government. An individual crossing out an offensive word is no more a violation of the First Amendment than the rules of this very forum.

 

2. Foul language and obscene images will not be tolerated. This site is family-friendly. All forum posts must conform to a family-friendly standard and contributors must act accordingly.

 

"However I do find censorship quite 'offensive' (that's also just me), so can you please not censor logs in future? I'd really appreciate that."

 

So his belief that 'censorship' is offensive is more important than your (and most peoples) belief that children need not be exposed to offensive language. Quite arrogant when you think about it.

 

Not to be nit-picky here, OK so I am However neither the writer of the foul language nor the original poster have any "First Amendment" rights. They are both Australians. However, I'm sure their government has similar rights for their countrymen.

[knowschad]

Not to be nit-picky here, OK so I am However neither the writer of the foul language nor the original poster have any "First Amendment" rights. They are both Australians. However, I'm sure their government has similar rights for their countrymen.

Oh, GEEZE!!! That's a 'roo of a whole different color, mate!! Those folks cuss like the devil!! I thought we were talking about sensitive folks here.

[+Sierra Rat]

Not to be nit-picky here, OK so I am However neither the writer of the foul language nor the original poster have any "First Amendment" rights. They are both Australians. However, I'm sure their government has similar rights for their countrymen.

Oh, GEEZE!!! That's a 'roo of a whole different color, mate!! Those folks cuss like the devil!! I thought we were talking about sensitive folks here.

[+scaramedic]

They are both Australians.

 

Never mind.

[+LukeTrocity]

Fill in the blank:

 

Freedom of ______

 

If the kid can read, they've probably heard that word a thousand times now. FYI

 

Hogwash and poppycock, that kind of mentality leads to nothing good. Respect is still a very good tool of the trade for human beings. Maybe you are accustomed to the word but we here in this household are not and find it very disrespectful.

 

Ok. You using words like poppycock are offensive to me. They are way worse than traditional swears. Please stop swearing at me.

 

 

In case my point is lost on you, just because something is offensive to you doesn't mean it is to me. I personally don't care about people expressing themselves. It has nothing to do with respect or your household. If you want to raise your kids in a bubble your more than welcome....to a point. They hear it at their friends houses and at school, and there's nothing you can do about it.

[+BlueDeuce]

Stay on track people . Cache - Logbook - strike out the offensive term.

[+Ecylram]

You did the right thing. I would have stricken the word myself. I'm glad you left the rest of entry.

 

This is a "family friendly" sport/hobby and the OP was doing their part to keep it that way. Message left in the log was the same without the 'word'.

 

I've used that word plenty of times along with some other doosies. However, I don't use those words in front of 5-year-olds.

[+mtn-man]

I for one think that you should post a log replying to the anoying note logger (To be kind I wont use his name). Log somthing like this

 

Hey gar****

 

(deleted by moderator, you need to find a better way to illustrate your point than this)

 

***This is a joke. You should not post a log like this.

 

Ok, but maybe posting a reply will trip the "dont use the logs as a forums" detector, and will get both logs deleted.

Not a joke to me. Not funny at all.

[+cycler48]

Fill in the blank:

 

Freedom of ______

 

If the kid can read, they've probably heard that word a thousand times now. FYI

 

With "Freedom of ______" comes responsibility. Just because you CAN do it doesn't make it right.

 

"If the kid can read, they've probably heard that word a thousand times now. FYI"

 

You're making quite an assumption there.

[+Pathfinder24]

Wow - a lot of responces here.

 

Firstly - My sincere thanks to all those who posted comments supporting my actions, I am genuinley very greatful, and amazed, that you took the time to say I had done the right thing.

 

However, I never intended the posted topic to earn me brownie points or pats on the back, I am interested in what others thought about the issue, as I couldn't find actual rules about what can or can't be written in logs, nor coud I find a forum topic that covered it.

So to that end, I have been equally amazed, lots of ideas and opions.

So huge thanks to all who have posted and those who may in the future. Hopfully this post can be a good indication of what geocachers expect to see (or not see) in written log books.

 

PS. Sorry for all the spelling mistakes / typos, was not built for typing. And ii seems one can't edit the topic heading after posting it... lesson learnt.

 

Right a little background:

I am certainly not judging anyone for the use of the word, thus, am not mentioning the cacher who actually wrote it. I manage and train wildfire firefighter crews for a living, you may well be able imagine the language that is daily life out on the fire line, if you can't imagine it - don't try! However, my past career was an outdoor education instructor, which I still do in my spare time, so i am rather particular about protecting children, maybe overly sensitve, since I am taking on responsibility for other peoples children.

When I saw the logbook I was actually shocked. Not by the word itself, but that someone had written it in a logbook. My first reaction was- there really is no need for that. It was in reference to the local muggle factor. Given the location of the cache, i can totally understand the writter's frustration, however, I maintain just no need for the word to be written in a log book. Its not going to reduce the muggles activity, nor will it change the location of the cache. High muggle factor is a part of caching, sometimes a very fun part, trying to retrive without being noticed can be a great challenge. If the challenge is too great, come back another time. Simple.

 

So to try and answer a few of the comments / questions:

 

1) I mentioned scribbling out the word in the online log for the same reason that I wrote "censored by pathfinder24" in the log book next to the 'scribling'. I wanted to make sure that my actions were compltely transperant so if any one did have an issue, they would know who had done it.

Admitably, in the logbook the word "censored" was probably the wrong word to use, but its was late, wet and cold, and I was on way home from seeing an awesome gig, (on the motorbike, so extra cold and wet) and a full vocabulary was not really at my disposal. :-)

 

2) I had every intention to email the cache owner, and did so the next day.

However, the 'telling off' occured between my logging the find (around midnight i think) and getting to the office next afternoon, as I had been out assessing firefighters all day. When I did email the owner I advise them of the entire story, and my reasoning behind my actions.

I am yet to recieve a reply of any kind.

 

3) Freedom of speech... NOTE this section is completely an "IN MY OPINION" bit...

when you sign up to any activity like geocaching, you are agreeing that you will act responsibly to ensure the enjoyment of all other invovled. So, from a certain point of veiw, and for certain people, this may mean you can not do everything you have the freedom to do in other parts of your everyday life. Therefore, in being considerate of other Geocachers, we may have to 'give up" a little freedom of speech.

We must remember that this is an amazing world wide game that transcends cultures and even languages, and we need to be considerate of every single geocacher out there. I know this could mean we have to accept cachers who wish to drop the F bomb every time they sign a log. However, there are rules for geocaching, which not only to try and minimise what the majority of cachers consider offending behaviour, but to give everyone an understanding of what to expect from the game. If geocaching had decided at the beginning that swearing in log books was acceptable, and put that in the rules, i am sure that certain groups, like the Scouts, would not have been so increadbly supportive of geocaching. I know I wold not be as keen to introduce new people to it.

Ranty bit over.

 

Again, thanks to everyone who took / will take the time to answer my question.

[+cycler48]

I too would have deleted the word. I don't find the word so much offensive anymore as I do boring. However, this doesn't mean it should be left for young eyes to view and even if they have seen or heard the words before, it doesn't mean they should be viewed as condoned by people who are "mental" adults. This word and words like it are used by the inarticulate and uneducated. I've also removed a three pack of condoms that I found in a cache once. Sometimes, the real adults just need to take charge.

 

Well said and atta boy to ya for saying it.

 

+1