Jump to content

Netsuke Geocoin from Cache Addict

Jackalgirl

By Jackalgirl
in Trackables

Followers 3

Recommended Posts

Jackalgirl

+Jackalgirl

Posted
Posted

Coming to GCF 2010...

The Netsuke Geocoin, a series of two (possibly three)

 

Netsuke (Japanese:根付) are miniature sculptures that were invented in 17th-century Japan to serve a practical function (the two Japanese characters ne+tsuke mean "root" and "to attach"). Traditional Japanese garments—robes called kosode and kimono—had no pockets; however, men who wore them needed a place to store their personal belongings, such as pipes, tobacco, money, seals, or medicines.

 

Their solution was to place such objects in containers (called sagemono) hung by cords from the robes' sashes (obi). The containers may have been pouches or small woven baskets, but the most popular were beautifully crafted boxes (inro), which were held shut by ojimes, which were sliding beads on cords. Whatever the form of the container, the fastener that secured the cord at the top of the sash was a carved, button-like toggle called a netsuke. -- Wikipedia

 

The most famous netsuke are undoubtedly the fully three-dimensional, puzzle-sculpture type (kataborinetsuke). But there's another form, the manju, named after the shape of a Japanese type of candy: a flat, disc-like shape (sound familiar?).

 

Brought to you by my fascination with all things Japanese, I bring to you the first of two, possibly three, netsuke geocoins:

 

waterlily-netsuke_preview.jpg

Waterlily Netsuke

 

This is a fully-functional netsuke as well as geocoin: the hole in the bottom will allow you to string a cord (an admittedly thin cord) to hang a purse through your belt (though I recommend a relatively small purse, or at least one that is not very heavy). It features 3D sculpture under translucent enamel.

 

These coins will be available at GCF 2010 at the Cache Addict booth and there will be more plating options than the antique silver depicted here (this is just a teaser). There should (hopefully) also be a Maple Leaf netsuke (I'll post pictures when it's available). If the series does well, we'll be adding a Cherry Blossom netsuke later on.

 

Custom icon: yes for the whole netsuke series, but if the individual types (Waterlily and Maple Leaf) sell well enough, each type will have its own custom icon.

 

See you at GCF!

Link to comment
Degai

+Degai

Posted
Posted (edited)

BEAUTIFUL!! I HAVE TO HAVE THIS! I love netsuke! I collect harmony kingdom and I was told they were based on netsuke. I had even thought of doing a Geocoin like this, but you have already done it and I want one! Like ElliPirelli, I, too, love water, koi, waterlillies (and I have all of them at my house) and would love to get some. Any chance of getting these if we can't go?

 

Anyone out there going to GCF 2010 who can get me some if I can't get them? Please, please, please! If so, I would be happy to pay you in advance and give you one of my personal Geocoins-Hoppin' Thru Time. Email me and let me know. Thanks.

Edited by Degai
Link to comment
Jackalgirl

+Jackalgirl

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Toojin, the activation code should be engraved across the bar on the bottom (the one through which the hole is drilled).

 

CF30:

 

1) You're absolutely correct; the koi is 3D under translucent enamel

 

2) Here's a clue: 4/1 unless you're very short, then it might be 4/3 or even 4/5 (requires special equipment). : )

Link to comment
GregsonVaux

GregsonVaux

Posted
Posted

I have a question: How is the 3-d effect conveyed to the mint? I have seen the artwork for some coins and the different layers are represented by different colors. With 3-d, how do you get the idea of what you want across to the mint and how do they turn it into a mold? Did someone in China carve the design into some substance such as wax? I have always assumed that 2-d designs use a photographic process to make the die.

 

Gregson

Link to comment
GregsonVaux

GregsonVaux

Posted
Posted

Jackalgirl,

 

In another post, I asked about the limitations of making coins. Would it be possible to color the leaves on the maple coin? I just want to know if it can be done. In your dealings with the mint, did this ever come up? I am working on a coin design that might have overlapping ivy leaves and I want to know if they can be colored with enamel.

Link to comment
Jackalgirl

+Jackalgirl

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

I have a question: How is the 3-d effect conveyed to the mint? I have seen the artwork for some coins and the different layers are represented by different colors. With 3-d, how do you get the idea of what you want across to the mint and how do they turn it into a mold? Did someone in China carve the design into some substance such as wax? I have always assumed that 2-d designs use a photographic process to make the die.

 

Gregson

 

What I ended up doing is generating the file in Adobe Illustrator using (mostly) gradient fills and gradient meshes (like gradient fills, but you have more control over how the gradients work). The factory in China uses a computer-driven CNC machine (a metal-cutting machine) to bore out the die based on a graphics file that tells it how and where to do the cutting. I think that the 2D process is largely the same, only the actual cutting machine is more complicated for 3D stuff (it's a different machine) because it has to work in three dimensions rather than two.

 

Their artists generate the graphics file for the cutting machine (though often I find that they can actually take my Illustrator files directly and make whatever format file they need in order to drive the cutter, which makes doing things like this fish a lot easier).

 

With regards to the Maple Leaf Netsuke: I think that it would be theoretically possible to put enamel in there, but it would have to be in the background (and I'd use it to make the leaves "pop"). That particular design was designed to be all-metal (no enamel), so I didn't worry about having to figure out how factory workers would color it.

 

Edited to add: it really wouldn't be possible to add enamel on top of those 3D leaves; it's a liquid before it's baked, so it wouldn't stay put. That's why you need to outline colored areas with metal: to hold in the enamel in its liquid state.

 

Within the next week or so, I should finish up the written version of the talk I gave at GCF this year, in which I talked about the manufacturing process and how it affects geocoin design. The good folks at GCF (hi, NOSNOW!) will be linking to it, and of course I'll put some links up in the Forum. : )

Edited by Jackalgirl
Link to comment
GregsonVaux

GregsonVaux

Posted
Posted (edited)

Thanks for the response, very informative. I should have guessed that they use a CNC.

 

I was not clear about my netsuke question. I was not asking whether enamel can be put on 3-d, I was asking if enamel can be put on a very complex shape. If the leaves were 2-d but everything else the same, could they be enameled?

 

I am curious about Illustrator. I tried to keep my costs down so I am using a free program called Inkscape. I am happy with it, but I do not know how it compares to other programs. Do you know enough about the two programs so that you can talk about their relative merits?

 

Gregson

Edited by GregsonVaux
Link to comment
GregsonVaux

GregsonVaux

Posted
Posted

2. Why is there an acorn on the Maple Leaf Netsuki? ;)

 

Probably for the same reason that the Water Lily Netsuke has a rose on it... I'm saying nothing more, but you might want to look closely at it...

 

Z.

 

:blink:

 

Oh man, I laughed and laughed and laughed at that response. I very seldom actually LOL at my computer. Also, after spending decades in front of a computer, this is the very first time that I have typed "LOL".

 

The coin I am working on will also be a botanical monstrosity. Flowers and leaves will be put on vines in combinations that Mother Nature never intended.

 

Gregson

Link to comment
GregsonVaux

GregsonVaux

Posted
Posted

2. Why is there an acorn on the Maple Leaf Netsuki? :blink:

 

Probably for the same reason that the Water Lily Netsuke has a rose on it... I'm saying nothing more, but you might want to look closely at it...

 

Z.

 

Oh wow, that's weird. I actually went and looked at the picture and one of the flowers is different than the rest. I thought that maybe the acorn was a mistake, but now that I see the rose, I think that Jakalgirl may have a purpose. Is she trying to say something?

Link to comment
Jackalgirl

+Jackalgirl

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks for the response, very informative. I should have guessed that they use a CNC.

 

I was not clear about my netsuke question. I was not asking whether enamel can be put on 3-d, I was asking if enamel can be put on a very complex shape. If the leaves were 2-d but everything else the same, could they be enameled?

 

I am curious about Illustrator. I tried to keep my costs down so I am using a free program called Inkscape. I am happy with it, but I do not know how it compares to other programs. Do you know enough about the two programs so that you can talk about their relative merits?

 

Gregson

 

I'm afraid I've never heard of Inkscape, so I can't be of much help there. I went with Adobe Illustrator because it's an extremely solid vector-based program (and I wanted vector stuff so that I could scale and resize graphics without losing resolution or getting pixel-ly graphics). However, if Inkscape is a raster-based program, I wouldn't worry too much -- Chris Mackey, who's an outstanding geocoin designer, uses Adobe Photoshop, which is raster-based*.

 

With regards to your question about enamel: as long as there's an outline, or surrounding metal to hold in the enamel, and as long as the area is large enough for the needle, the factory workers should be able to put enamel in there. Certain kinds of special effects (like glow-in-the-dark enamel) don't work well in really small areas, and the mint will balk because the glow enamels are created by mixing up a powder base, which makes for a super thick enamel (which, in turn, doesn't flow into tiny areas too well). But regular enamel can go just about anywhere the needle can fit.

 

Do be aware, though, of the difference between soft enamel and imitation hard enamel (IHE). Soft enamel is "slumpy"; it settles into the fill areas but surface tension keeps a "wall" of enamel sloping along the sides of the fill areas. It's hard to describe in text, but if you've ever seen a military challenge coin, chances are you've seen soft enamel. The effect is more pronounced with lower-quality enamels/mints.

 

Imitation hard enamel is a resin that's meant to be overfilled and then polished ("stoned") down flush with the surface of the coin. There's a tactile difference between 2D coins with soft enamel and those with IHE; the IHE is very, very smooth while the soft-enamel coin has a definite texture to it (because you're feeling the metal lines and "walls"). Here's an example: it's a challenge coin, but it uses IHE.

 

However, mints can't polish down coins that have 3D bas-relief features, because the 3D parts that stick up don't let them the grind down the enamel. So 3D coins will use soft-enamel (unless they're recessed 3D; that is, the 3D is set down below the overall upper level of the coin, as in the Waterlily Netsuke). Translucent soft enamels are really different from IHE translucent enamels (they seem a lot darker to me, probably because they don't end up being as thick as IHE and therefore don't reflect light [and color] as richly).

 

Also, there's a key process difference: for 3D or soft-enamel coins, the mints will PLATE FIRST, then enamel. So if you have an antique enamel under translucent color, or black nickel under translucent color, the color will be muddy (or, in the case of BN, totally black). For IHE coins, the mints will ENAMEL FIRST, then plate (this makes sense; if they plated first, they'd grind the plating right off the coin during the process of stoning). So you can do black nickel coins with vibrant translucent enamel, as long as the IHE process is being used.

 

*The difference between vector and raster (if you don't know) is that raster programs basically understand your picture as a series of colored pixels. If you resize the picture, the program has to either subtract pixels or guess about where to add new ones in. So you'll see, for example, what appears to be a nice curve turn into a pixel staircase if you try to enlarge it. A vector program understands your lines as mathematical equations. So it doesn't matter whether you change their sizes; the program will draw the lines cleanly regardless. You can change effects (the width of the line's stroke, for example, or its color, or even apply different brushes to it) really easily, which is why I like vector programs a lot.

 

A tip for those who want to get Adobe Illustrator: see if you can find an old copy of it (e.g., CS2 or CS3) on eBay. Make sure it's either not registered, or that the person selling it is willing (and knows how) to transfer the registration for you. Then, purchase an upgrade to the current version. I got AI for slightly less than half the list price by going that way (it was still around $400, which is extremely expensive, but not as extremely as $800!). Or just look around for something open-source. I hear good things about gimp, but have never used it.

Link to comment
GregsonVaux

GregsonVaux

Posted
Posted

Jakalgirl.

 

Again, very informative and appreciated. I own a bunch of coins so I had observed much of what you were talking about, but it is nice to hear it explained properly instead of me just guessing. My coins will most likely be IHE unless the price kills me.

 

About Inkscape, it is free and open source like Linux. It is also vector based. Drawing with vectors is very different so the learning curve was miserable, but now that I am getter better at it, it is a joy and I don't ever want to go back to bitmap software. Since I have never used Illustrator, I don't know if Inkscape comes close in power or not.

 

Gregson

Link to comment
Jackalgirl

+Jackalgirl

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Jakalgirl.

 

Again, very informative and appreciated. I own a bunch of coins so I had observed much of what you were talking about, but it is nice to hear it explained properly instead of me just guessing. My coins will most likely be IHE unless the price kills me.

 

About Inkscape, it is free and open source like Linux. It is also vector based. Drawing with vectors is very different so the learning curve was miserable, but now that I am getter better at it, it is a joy and I don't ever want to go back to bitmap software. Since I have never used Illustrator, I don't know if Inkscape comes close in power or not.

 

Gregson

 

I'm willing to bet that it's totally adequate. Really all you need are lines and colors and the ability to convert font/text/strokes to "paths" (shapes), plus perhaps the ability to apply a brush (or thicks and thins) to a stroke if you want to get artsy. It also helps to have gradient fill options (if you're trying to convey 3D) and I find that the "pixellate" filter is really handy for showing people what glitter enamel might look like (roughly). But those are extras. If you can export your files in WMF format, and if your vendor can accept that format, you're especially golden, since the mint will be able to use your actual file to generate the die-cutting machine's instructions.

 

One note about soft enamel, and this is from a challenge-coin perspective: lots of people don't like the inner reflections that the enamel's "slumpiness" causes. So the vendors/mints recommend applying epoxy, which fills in the open areas and makes the enamel look a LOT better. And it does. And soft enamel is less expensive than IHE. But soft enamel plus epoxy is generally MORE expensive than IHE, for what it's worth. Remember that if you have a nice bas-relief 3D design going on, you're going to have to use soft enamel.

 

(Though I did a 3D challenge coin with IHE, which remained unstoned, and turned out a little odd. But that's another story.)

Link to comment
GregsonVaux

GregsonVaux

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

If you can export your files in WMF format, and if your vendor can accept that format, you're especially golden, since the mint will be able to use your actual file to generate the die-cutting machine's instructions.

 

 

Ooohh this may be a problem. I have this vine on the coin with tons of leaves. I made one leaf and then copied it many time with rotations and flips to fill up the coin. When I made the original leaf, there were two spots that needed to be filled in a bit so I put in two extra lines. Thus each leaf is more complex than it appears. Hopefully this does not cause problems with the cutting machine.

 

BTW, Inkscape is golden when it comes to exporting files. It can save a file in countless numbers of formats. Most are vector and some are bitmap.

Edited by GregsonVaux
Link to comment
Toojin

+Toojin

Posted
Posted
Toojin, the activation code should be engraved across the bar on the bottom (the one through which the hole is drilled).
I did have a heck of a time finding the tracking number, clever place to put it....

 

But I was hunting for the activation code.

ST13pilot sent me an e-mail saying that he thought it was CACHE as all the other CacheAddict codes have been lately. If that is incorrect, let me know please...

Link to comment
Jackalgirl

+Jackalgirl

Posted
  • Author
Posted

 

If you can export your files in WMF format, and if your vendor can accept that format, you're especially golden, since the mint will be able to use your actual file to generate the die-cutting machine's instructions.

 

 

Ooohh this may be a problem. I have this vine on the coin with tons of leaves. I made one leaf and then copied it many time with rotations and flips to fill up the coin. When I made the original leaf, there were two spots that needed to be filled in a bit so I put in two extra lines. Thus each leaf is more complex than it appears. Hopefully this does not cause problems with the cutting machine.

 

BTW, Inkscape is golden when it comes to exporting files. It can save a file in countless numbers of formats. Most are vector and some are bitmap.

 

There's an option in Adobe Illustrator called "Pathfinder", which allows you to do stuff with overlapping shapes. For example, if you expand the lines you used to fill in your leaves (so that they're shapes also), you can then "combine" them so that they become one shape. I'm not sure whether Inkscape does this or what it's called, but if you it does, that's the way to do it.

 

But if you can't, don't worry about it. The mint will be able to fix it with their software.

Link to comment
Jackalgirl

+Jackalgirl

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Toojin, the activation code should be engraved across the bar on the bottom (the one through which the hole is drilled).
I did have a heck of a time finding the tracking number, clever place to put it....

 

But I was hunting for the activation code.

ST13pilot sent me an e-mail saying that he thought it was CACHE as all the other CacheAddict codes have been lately. If that is incorrect, let me know please...

 

It is a bit tricksy! (Especially on the shiny netsuke) That probably is the activation code, but to be sure, go here, to the 'activate' tab on the Cache Addict site.

Link to comment
Crowesfeat30

+Crowesfeat30

Posted
Posted

2. Why is there an acorn on the Maple Leaf Netsuki? ;)

 

Probably for the same reason that the Water Lily Netsuke has a rose on it... I'm saying nothing more, but you might want to look closely at it...

 

Z.

 

Oh wow, that's weird. I actually went and looked at the picture and one of the flowers is different than the rest. I thought that maybe the acorn was a mistake, but now that I see the rose, I think that Jakalgirl may have a purpose. Is she trying to say something?

Ooh! I hadn't noticed the rose. And I'd only noticed the acorn because I'd just received the ant silver version and I was marveling at the depth of the 3d and - wait! - whoa! - what's that acorn doing there!! LOL! :blink:

 

CF30

Link to comment
GregsonVaux

GregsonVaux

Posted
Posted

I thought that maybe the acorn was a mistake, but now that I see the rose, I think that Jakalgirl may have a purpose. Is she trying to say something?

 

Oh, I might be. : )

 

I'll take a stab in the dark. The acorn among the maple leaves and the rose among the water lilies could have any number of meanings, but they seem to indicate one lone thing being out of place among a number of things which all belong together. Is Jakalgirl the rose and the acorn? Does she feel out of place?

Link to comment
Zwack_&_Irish_Eyes

+Zwack_&_Irish_Eyes

Posted
Posted

I thought that maybe the acorn was a mistake, but now that I see the rose, I think that Jakalgirl may have a purpose. Is she trying to say something?

 

Oh, I might be. : )

 

I'll take a stab in the dark. The acorn among the maple leaves and the rose among the water lilies could have any number of meanings, but they seem to indicate one lone thing being out of place among a number of things which all belong together. Is Jakalgirl the rose and the acorn? Does she feel out of place?

 

Indeed... totally in the dark. The Rose is not the one lone thing out of place... Look carefully and you will see that it is tethered to an underwater cache. So clearly the Rose is like Jackalgirl... It leads you to the goal you seek... (OK that's obscure enough... now to explain... My wife is considering designing a geocoin, and so all of the useful information that Jackalgirl has posted in this thread will be of use to her. ) :D

 

Z.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
Followers 3
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...