Jump to content

Signing the log


yellowdogs

Recommended Posts

I have a cache hidden in a tree that requires climbing to access the container and sign the log. I have actually climbed several trees myself and traversed some rough terrain to sign the log. The terrain is rated "3" and I have had a few finders already that have made the climb, but one cacher that just "took a picture" of the cache up in the tree and claimed it as a find. I can see if you are physically unable to climb the tree, but should you not just take a pass on this cache and stick with terrain ratings in your level? Is this right? What is the point if you don't actually have to sign the log?

Link to comment

People play the game differently. I've been to a few that required tree climbing. I'm not as limber as I used to be though. I just don't log those either way, as a find or as a DNF. I know where it's at, but unwilling to get there.

 

Other people are different. It's up to you whether you want to delete said log. I'd leave it myself.

 

PS.

 

Does anyone have some limber kids I can rent for a weekend? :)

Link to comment

I have a cache hidden in a tree that requires climbing to access the container and sign the log. I have actually climbed several trees myself and traversed some rough terrain to sign the log. The terrain is rated "3" and I have had a few finders already that have made the climb, but one cacher that just "took a picture" of the cache up in the tree and claimed it as a find. I can see if you are physically unable to climb the tree, but should you not just take a pass on this cache and stick with terrain ratings in your level? Is this right? What is the point if you don't actually have to sign the log?

 

I don't know if there is an official answer.

 

I'd say for the caching "purists" if you don't lay hands on the cache, then you haven't found it.

 

Or, if you haven't signed the log, then you haven't "found" it.

 

I imagine some folks are just happy finding it, or getting in visual range of it, and consider being able to "see" the cache as "good enough".

 

If I knew that someone got within "visual range" of a cache and either could not (for physical reasons) or didn't care to (for reasons known only to them) actually open it or sign the log --- I'd be inclined to let them count the cache as found.

 

A lot of experienced cachers (and a few "noobs" like me as well) have discovered that geocaching is not about signing logbooks or finding a nano cache in the middle of nowhere after a 2 day hike, but rather it is about "getting out there" and having fun. Enjoying nature. Enjoying the journey. Enjoying being with family and friends. Finding the cache is anti-climatic, sort of. :)

Link to comment

Does it say in the description that tree climbing will be required to access the cache? If so, then unless they sign the log, the cache should not be claimed. If you just gave a terrain rating of 3 with no telling them that they need to climb a tree, then that may be why they get there and just take the pic.

 

Myself, I can/have and will again traverse terrain that the hider rated as a 4.5 as it is up a long, steep angle slope on a river valley: but no tree climbing, and it was stated ahead of time that a steep incline awaited. If I got my fat a** to GZ and discovered I was expected to climb a tree to access the cache, with no fore warning, I may not be so keen to try that since gravity and I have come to an understanding. I have also discovered that what many consider a 4 or 4.5 terrain, others consider only a 3 rating.

 

Also, depending on the tree, and height of the cache, one may be expected to have climbing and safety gear to access the cache... which could make it a 5.

Link to comment

Terrain 3 is not "tree climbing required" terrain rating. I can do terrain 2.5 and 3's that don't require climbing trees. Unless noted in your cache page that a tree climb was required (or in the logs of people who found it) I would likely truck out thee and attempt the cache because the terrain rating was appropriate for me.

 

So using the excuse the finder shouldn't have even gone out there and known she couldn't do it based on terrain is a very weak argument.

 

On the other hand she didn't sign the log. She probably shouldn't have claimed it.

Link to comment

I would think that if you take a photograph of the cache, you found it. Assuming, of course, that the photograph is of the actual cache.

 

I am new at Geocaching, so don't take this thought as chiseled in stone, I'm still learning. I am just a little surprised that so many don't consider it a find unless the log is signed.

 

If you come across a cache that doesn't have a log that you can sign (wet, full, gone, etc.) should you refrain from logging it as found until you are able to sign the log?

 

(I'm not trying to stir the pot, just exploring ideas so that I may learn.)

Link to comment

I have a cache hidden in a tree that requires climbing to access the container and sign the log. I have actually climbed several trees myself and traversed some rough terrain to sign the log. The terrain is rated "3" and I have had a few finders already that have made the climb, but one cacher that just "took a picture" of the cache up in the tree and claimed it as a find. I can see if you are physically unable to climb the tree, but should you not just take a pass on this cache and stick with terrain ratings in your level? Is this right? What is the point if you don't actually have to sign the log?

 

I don't know if there is an official answer.

 

I'd say for the caching "purists" if you don't lay hands on the cache, then you haven't found it.

 

Or, if you haven't signed the log, then you haven't "found" it.

 

I imagine some folks are just happy finding it, or getting in visual range of it, and consider being able to "see" the cache as "good enough".

 

If I knew that someone got within "visual range" of a cache and either could not (for physical reasons) or didn't care to (for reasons known only to them) actually open it or sign the log --- I'd be inclined to let them count the cache as found.

 

A lot of experienced cachers (and a few "noobs" like me as well) have discovered that geocaching is not about signing logbooks or finding a nano cache in the middle of nowhere after a 2 day hike, but rather it is about "getting out there" and having fun. Enjoying nature. Enjoying the journey. Enjoying being with family and friends. Finding the cache is anti-climatic, sort of. :rolleyes:

 

Maybe I am too much a "purist" but I don't count a find unless I have signed the log. Yes a part of caching is about ""getting out there" and having fun. Enjoying nature. Enjoying the journey." But I can do that in my backyard. Just getting nearby a cache and claiming it, to me that would be a failure. But as we have said lo these many times different people play the game differently.

Link to comment

I would think that if you take a photograph of the cache, you found it. Assuming, of course, that the photograph is of the actual cache.

 

I am new at Geocaching, so don't take this thought as chiseled in stone, I'm still learning. I am just a little surprised that so many don't consider it a find unless the log is signed.

 

If you come across a cache that doesn't have a log that you can sign (wet, full, gone, etc.) should you refrain from logging it as found until you are able to sign the log?

 

(I'm not trying to stir the pot, just exploring ideas so that I may learn.)

 

I think that you will find that some who take this stance, myself included, would be less likely to make a big deal out of it if we were talking about the average cache. The thing is that this cache is in a tree. The whole point is to overcome that obstacle and retrieve and sign the log.

Link to comment

I don't take the general view that in all cases "TO CLAIM A SMILEY YOU MUST SIGN THE LOG".

 

The distinction I made is - is the lack of signature for a "technicality" (log full, missing, to wet, no pen, attacked by a bear and ran away)... vs. not being able to retrieve the cache.

 

If you have the cache in your hands but can't sign because of a "technicality", I think it is OK to log a find if you can provide evidence that you found it (e.g. a photo). Of course the cache owner needs to agree; there is a risk they won't and will delete your log.

 

But in this case, if the finder never actually was able to get the cache in their hands (for reasons intended by the cache owner, that you climb the tree), I don't think that should be a find. I would not claim it as a find.

Edited by redsox_mark
Link to comment

I completely disagree with the statement "if you don't sign the log, you don't get the smiley". There are several reasons sometimes why you cannot sign the log in a cache. But that does NOT mean you didn't find it. If I have the cache in hand and can't sign the log, you can bet your a** I will get a smiley.

Link to comment

I found one once that I couldn't get open. I had it in my hot little hands and everything. I didn't claim it as a find until the next day when I dragged hubby out there to muscle it off. It did make me feel better that he had a hard time with it.

 

For a while I was afraid that it was a puzzle that we were breaking but nope - just stuck.

Link to comment
I completely disagree with the statement "if you don't sign the log, you don't get the smiley". There are several reasons sometimes why you cannot sign the log in a cache. But that does NOT mean you didn't find it. If I have the cache in hand and can't sign the log, you can bet your a** I will get a smiley.

 

I follow that philosophy... BUT... I have a very broad definition of "sign the log"... I provide my own log if necessary. However, I consider that if I haven't met the challenge of the cache I won't claim that I have.

 

I found one once that I couldn't get open.

 

Ah, old ammo cans get that way sometimes.

Edited by Arrow42
Link to comment

From the FAQ (http://www.geocaching.com/faq/default.aspx)...

 

---------------

 

What are the rules in Geocaching?

 

1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

---------------

 

There are three basic rules and #2 is that you must sign the log.

Edited by e5c4p3artist
Link to comment

 

On the other hand she didn't sign the log. She probably shouldn't have claimed it.

 

No probably about it. TO CLAIM A SMILEY YOU MUST SIGN THE LOG.

That is a position that is perfectly fine for you to take with caches that you own. However, other cache owners are free to allow finds if the logs weren't signed.
Link to comment

From the FAQ (http://www.geocaching.com/faq/default.aspx)...

 

---------------

 

What are the rules in Geocaching?

 

1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

---------------

 

There are three basic rules and #2 is that you must sign the log.

That's not what #2 actually says, is it?

Link to comment

I completely disagree with the statement "if you don't sign the log, you don't get the smiley". There are several reasons sometimes why you cannot sign the log in a cache. But that does NOT mean you didn't find it. If I have the cache in hand and can't sign the log, you can bet your a** I will get a smiley.

I tend to aggree with this pholosify. But this contrasts the OP where the cacher did not even get to the cache.

Link to comment

From the FAQ (http://www.geocaching.com/faq/default.aspx)...

 

---------------

 

What are the rules in Geocaching?

 

1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

---------------

 

There are three basic rules and #2 is that you must sign the log.

That's not what #2 actually says, is it?

 

Verbatim. Go check it out for yourself.

Link to comment

Why do we have to re-hash this every few weeks? There is ONLY ONE ANSWER.

 

TO CLAIM A SMILEY YOU MUST SIGN THE LOG.

Not true.

 

I completely disagree with the statement "if you don't sign the log, you don't get the smiley". There are several reasons sometimes why you cannot sign the log in a cache. But that does NOT mean you didn't find it. If I have the cache in hand and can't sign the log, you can bet your a** I will get a smiley.

Also not true. Cache owners are given the authority to delete find logs and are even told to delete bogus and counterfeit logs. If a cache owner were to delete your log because it appears "bogus" and the the physical doesn't have your signature, I doubt very much that Groundspeak would reinstate your log. You can play a game with the cache owner where you keep relogging and they keep deleting till one of you gives up, so perhaps you are convinced you can outlast any cache owner.

 

With regard to a cache in a tree - most of the community will agree that a cache that has some physical or mental challenge to retrieve the cache and sign the log shouldn't be logged as found unless you signed the log (at least) and possibly even unless you complete the challenge the cache owner intended for you to accomplish.

 

From the FAQ (http://www.geocaching.com/faq/default.aspx)...

 

---------------

 

What are the rules in Geocaching?

 

1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

---------------

 

There are three basic rules and #2 is that you must sign the log.

And rule number 3 doesn't say anything about a find log. If my experience was a DNF must I write in the cache logook before I share that experience? The idea that one of these rules is dependent on another is only your opinion. There is nothing anywhere that says you can't log a find unless you signed the log. Besides which, the so-called 3 rules from the FAQ that you quote originally didn't say anything about logging online at all. They were orginally a paraphrase of the instructions posted by Dave Ulmer on the USENET when he hid the first geocache. I still take them as instructions for what to do once you have found the cache and not as rules. The online find is not a score. The online log is a way for cachers to share their experience. As such it doesn't need rules and cache owners should only delete the log if they are truely bogus.

Link to comment

I think sbell111 was attempting to point out that I paraphrased "write about your find in the cache logbook" as "sign the log." And I did. So I will be a little more general. You must write something in the logbook to claim a find. Most of us write the date and our geocaching names, but you must at least write something.

Link to comment

I think sbell111 was attempting to point out that I paraphrased "write about your find in the cache logbook" as "sign the log." And I did. So I will be a little more general. You must write something in the logbook to claim a find. Most of us write the date and our geocaching names, but you must at least write something.

It also didn't say anything about having to write something in the log book in order log a find online. The "rules" you quote are simply instructions on what you should do when you find a cache. In that respect you should write in the log book and log your experience on line. However, nobody seems to get upset when someone writes in the log book and doesn't log anything online. What's the difference? Is rule 2 more important than rule 3? What if someone breaks rule 1 by taking something but not leaving something of equal or greater value? Didn't they cheat too? Why not go after all the cheaters who log a find online after they didn't trade fairly?

 

You are reading far too much into these "rules".

Link to comment

People play the game differently. I've been to a few that required tree climbing. I'm not as limber as I used to be though. I just don't log those either way, as a find or as a DNF. I know where it's at, but unwilling to get there.

 

Other people are different. It's up to you whether you want to delete said log. I'd leave it myself.

 

PS.

 

Does anyone have some limber kids I can rent for a weekend? :rolleyes:

 

Just go home and get yourself a Geo-Tool (Ladder)

 

SS

Link to comment

I have a cache hidden in a tree that requires climbing to access the container and sign the log. I have actually climbed several trees myself and traversed some rough terrain to sign the log. The terrain is rated "3" and I have had a few finders already that have made the climb, but one cacher that just "took a picture" of the cache up in the tree and claimed it as a find. I can see if you are physically unable to climb the tree, but should you not just take a pass on this cache and stick with terrain ratings in your level? Is this right? What is the point if you don't actually have to sign the log?

 

I would not even hesitate for a second deleting his log cause not only did they not sign the log, but also posted a "Spoiler" picture. as in the Gladiator movie, that would be a thumbs down.

 

Scubasonic

Link to comment

[...]The thing is that this cache is in a tree. The whole point is to overcome that obstacle and retrieve and sign the log.

 

That is a good point.

 

It would be one thing to see a cache on the face of a cliff with binoculars, but something completely different to get to it.

 

OK, this makes sense. Signing the log does prove access to the cache, not just observation. So,"Finding" the cache requires more than just locating it. [Edit] I think that if you are able to access the cache but can't sign the log for technical reasons (log missing, wet, full, etc.) you should still be able to claim the cache as found online. Although, if the CO requires proof, then perhaps a photograph or another trip to the cache with dry paper to leave your signature is in order.

 

I am always interested to see what the trade and trackable items are but I have no interest in taking anything. I do however like to leave stuff sometimes, depending upon the cache. I don't move any travel bugs or Geocoins simply because I am too new at Geocaching. I will help trackables along when I feel that I can to it in a responsible manner.[End edit]

Edited by u.rusty
Link to comment

If you don't sign the log, you don't get credit for the find.....with the exception of a missing or unusable log. Though I always carry a few spare logs with me for times like that.

 

Let's say I place an ammo can at the very edge of a cave 200ft up a 500ft cliff face. The cache is visible from the ground with binocs. To reach the actual cache will require climbing to the cache after a 5 mile hike in. You come along and look up at it longingly and from afar. Someone else makes the hike, climbs the two or three pitches on lead, signs the log, and rappels back down. You better believe I'm gonna give credit to the guy who climbed up (and his climbing partner) and delete your log. You can post it as a note, but not as a find.

Link to comment

Yes it is true. And also true is that you don't make the rules for the rest of us. I have found several caches that the log was so wet in them that I could not even get the log out, and the cache was only big enough for the original log. I DID log it as a find. And I will again.

 

Sometimes a cache needs a bit of maintenance. Pretty darn hard to tell when it's up a tree and you didn't retrieve it. Aye?

Edited by BlueDeuce
Link to comment

I think that if you are able to access the cache but can't sign the log for technical reasons (log missing, wet, full, etc.) you should still be able to claim the cache as found online. Although, if the CO requires proof, then perhaps a photograph or another trip to the cache with dry paper to leave your signature is in order.

 

This is where carrying extra paper and ziplocks really comes in handy.

 

Though I doubt a cache owner fastidious enough to audit his/her logs would allow a wet logbook to stay in a cache for very long.

Link to comment

touch it - catch it

 

If you don't want to climb the tree then don't, but it isn't a "find".

 

Here's one for ya:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC24NWZ

 

Of course, all who find it can ignore "Warning" #3:

 

WARNING #3: IF YOU LOG THIS LIKE A PARK AND GRAB OR ONE OF THOSE STUPID "sent from mobile device" OR "found it" AND NOTHING ELSE TYPE LOGS, YOUR LOG WILL BE DELETED WITHOUT QUESTION!
Link to comment

If you don't sign the log, you don't get credit for the find.....with the exception of a missing or unusable log. Though I always carry a few spare logs with me for times like that.

 

Let's say I place an ammo can at the very edge of a cave 200ft up a 500ft cliff face. The cache is visible from the ground with binocs. To reach the actual cache will require climbing to the cache after a 5 mile hike in. You come along and look up at it longingly and from afar. Someone else makes the hike, climbs the two or three pitches on lead, signs the log, and rappels back down. You better believe I'm gonna give credit to the guy who climbed up (and his climbing partner) and delete your log. You can post it as a note, but not as a find.

Darn straight!

 

Otherwise I'd take a peek in a telescope and log this one. <_<

 

I did take one smiley for an unsigned log... the log was in a baggie full of water was and was nothing more than soggy spitball at that point. (I didn't have any replacement logs at the time, I did come back a few days later and replaced the log & baggie for the CO.)

Link to comment

sign it - log it

if the log is full or wet grab a piece of paper or reciept from your pocket.

if you dont have a pen or pencil dip a stick in the mud or burn the end to sign in charcoal.

ive found a way to sign every cache ive been to even if i had to dump water out of the container and make a new log book.

 

if i can see the cache in the middle of a river and just take a picture. that isnt a find.

 

logging is the reward for making the find the right way

Link to comment

I'm a relative newbie to this game, but my opinion and in-practice-choice is that if I can't sign the log, I won't log it as found.

 

There's a LPC hide 1 mile from my office. The cache page warns of hornets.

3 of the last four finds explicitly state "didn't want to get stung so didn't sign the log"... but are listed as "Found."

 

I know exactly where it is - have for a couple months now - it's the only LP with a skirt/cap within a few hundred feet - and I too have almost gotten stung there - but I'm waiting until I can actually put pen-to-paper before I log it as found.

Link to comment

 

Of course, all who find it can ignore "Warning" #3:

 

WARNING #3: IF YOU LOG THIS LIKE A PARK AND GRAB OR ONE OF THOSE STUPID "sent from mobile device" OR "found it" AND NOTHING ELSE TYPE LOGS, YOUR LOG WILL BE DELETED WITHOUT QUESTION!

 

Surely that's an ALR & can be ignored!! <_<

 

Chalky

Edited by Chalky723
Link to comment

I'm a relative newbie to this game, but my opinion and in-practice-choice is that if I can't sign the log, I won't log it as found.

 

There's a LPC hide 1 mile from my office. The cache page warns of hornets.

3 of the last four finds explicitly state "didn't want to get stung so didn't sign the log"... but are listed as "Found."

 

I know exactly where it is - have for a couple months now - it's the only LP with a skirt/cap within a few hundred feet - and I too have almost gotten stung there - but I'm waiting until I can actually put pen-to-paper before I log it as found.

That's a personal rule that certainly works for you. However, it is not a community standard.

 

Most people, I expect, understand that geocaching is a fun game that is built on trust. If someone posts that they were afraid to sign the log due to wasp activity, most cache owners are going to understand and allow a find log to stand.

Link to comment

I'm a relative newbie to this game, but my opinion and in-practice-choice is that if I can't sign the log, I won't log it as found.

 

There's a LPC hide 1 mile from my office. The cache page warns of hornets.

3 of the last four finds explicitly state "didn't want to get stung so didn't sign the log"... but are listed as "Found."

 

I know exactly where it is - have for a couple months now - it's the only LP with a skirt/cap within a few hundred feet - and I too have almost gotten stung there - but I'm waiting until I can actually put pen-to-paper before I log it as found.

That's a personal rule that certainly works for you. However, it is not a community standard.

 

Most people, I expect, understand that geocaching is a fun game that is built on trust. If someone posts that they were afraid to sign the log due to wasp activity, most cache owners are going to understand and allow a find log to stand.

 

I suspect that is why the poster said "my opinion and in-practice-choice"

Link to comment

I'm a relative newbie to this game, but my opinion and in-practice-choice is that if I can't sign the log, I won't log it as found.

 

There's a LPC hide 1 mile from my office. The cache page warns of hornets.

3 of the last four finds explicitly state "didn't want to get stung so didn't sign the log"... but are listed as "Found."

 

I know exactly where it is - have for a couple months now - it's the only LP with a skirt/cap within a few hundred feet - and I too have almost gotten stung there - but I'm waiting until I can actually put pen-to-paper before I log it as found.

That's a personal rule that certainly works for you. However, it is not a community standard.

 

Most people, I expect, understand that geocaching is a fun game that is built on trust. If someone posts that they were afraid to sign the log due to wasp activity, most cache owners are going to understand and allow a find log to stand.

 

I suspect that is why the poster said "my opinion and in-practice-choice"

 

And my practice as well. I've even had a cache owner give me the go-ahead to claim a find without signing. No thanks, I'll return.

Link to comment

From the FAQ (http://www.geocaching.com/faq/default.aspx)...

 

---------------

 

What are the rules in Geocaching?

 

1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

---------------

 

There are three basic rules and #2 is that you must sign the log.

That's not what #2 actually says, is it?

 

Verbatim. Go check it out for yourself.

So if I don't sign the log but I log online, I've broken rule #2. If I don't sign the log and I DON'T log online, I've broken rules #2 and 3!!

 

I'm glad to see that I didn't break any rules by leaving all those caches out in the open so they're easier to find.

Link to comment

From the FAQ (http://www.geocaching.com/faq/default.aspx)...

 

---------------

 

What are the rules in Geocaching?

 

1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

---------------

 

There are three basic rules and #2 is that you must sign the log.

That's not what #2 actually says, is it?

 

Verbatim. Go check it out for yourself.

So if I don't sign the log but I log online, I've broken rule #2. If I don't sign the log and I DON'T log online, I've broken rules #2 and 3!!

 

I'm glad to see that I didn't break any rules by leaving all those caches out in the open so they're easier to find.

 

All I was saying is that the quote was accurate.

Link to comment

From the FAQ (http://www.geocaching.com/faq/default.aspx)...

 

---------------

 

What are the rules in Geocaching?

 

1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

---------------

 

There are three basic rules and #2 is that you must sign the log.

That's not what #2 actually says, is it?

 

Verbatim. Go check it out for yourself.

So if I don't sign the log but I log online, I've broken rule #2. If I don't sign the log and I DON'T log online, I've broken rules #2 and 3!!

 

I'm glad to see that I didn't break any rules by leaving all those caches out in the open so they're easier to find.

 

All I was saying is that the quote was accurate.

I was only commenting on the "rules", didn't mean to comment on your comment.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...